too bad hes gonna cause more problems alive, than he will dead... they wanted him dead. lets see how the story plays out

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

Oh boy...

We can't agree on anything?

I just wanted to thank the American Soldiers for a job well done thus far, and then the American citizens bash their own country?

I'll never figure you guys out....

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I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.

Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.

[url="mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net"]mailto:Bruintone@netscape.net[/url]Bruintone@netscape.net</A>
Yahoo! Name : jedibruintone77

oh on a separate note, as someone who hates the american administration in most ways, id like to say this thread isnt about what led to saddams capture, its just a sigh of relief that hes been caught. so that innocent iraqis and american young soldier boys dont have to keep on DYING. thats why, yes good job to the american soldiers, and to the rest of you, lets not get into if the price they paid was worth it or not, coz everyone can justify their own cause. remember that. YAY HES CAUGHT! BOO! HES NOT DEAD!

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

The election being rigged I meant

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

"Correction, the game/war anology SICKENS ME. How can you compare war to a game? Disgusting"

And you sir sicken me through your ignorance. Disgusting.

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Come on, shake the Nub,..... you know you want to.

[This message has been edited by Nubs (edited December 14, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Nubs (edited December 14, 2003).]

Cheers, Snake-Eyes!

SO Cavey, you want to back up any of that or would you prefer to keep pulling these statements out of your *** ?

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Come on, shake the Nub,..... you know you want to.

So much speculation with no evidence whatsoever. That's what you'll find in this post and just about every other US/Bush-bashing post. There's absolutely nothing wrong with speculating and voicing opinions, but please refrain from pretending that your opinions are facts or that they matter much to anyone without any evidence. It would be nice to have an intellectual discussion on these forums for once.

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http://www.napalmdeathsquad.com

If you think Saddam's capture will stop the killing, you're terribly naive.

First off, it requires the assumption that all of the people fighting in Iraq are supporters of Saddam. I'd be willing to bet that many of them are frustrated with the foreign military occupation of their homeland (as I imagine all of us would be).

Second, it assumes that Saddam's followers would be pleased with the outcome of whatever show trial he's put through. It could mean his death, and we all know that a martyr can be a very powerful symbol for a people. It could mean his imprisonment, and that would just give Saddam's followers something to work toward.

In other words, it's not over. And it won't be over for a while. The US created a problem that will likely impact quite a few future administrations.

That was my OWN misconception, I apologize very much for doing the exact same thing I was yelling at your for (Feel free to be disgusted with other people, just not me )

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Not only that but *gasp* Saddam's followers aren't the only one who don't want the Americans in their country killing their brothers and sisters.

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Apology accepted. No problem. Actually my sickening comment was directed at Correction Problem, not you, but no harm done . T'was him that I was disgusted with.


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Come on, shake the Nub,..... you know you want to.

[This message has been edited by Nubs (edited December 14, 2003).]

Me too, it's just too much fun to play devil's advocate.

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Well, at first I hated bush etc etc for this just like Mikus, but you really don't need to get violent over things. Everyone makes mistakes, bush is just one of those people who makes more then others..

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<Glyde> but.. you can't pick pickled peppers, even if a pickled pepper picker could pick pickled peppers!

Are you going to justify your position, or just leave me wondering what your opinion is?

Well Snake-Eyes, if it makes you happy, I'm happy you're happy.

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Eat the pudding.

No. When the President of the most powerful country in the world starts a war you can't shrug it off as "Oh well, pobody's nerfect" It's a BIG ****ING DEAL

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

I disagree with you in the following points
First off, your number #2 point. There has been countless incidents, well publicized, of civilains being killed. There have been many a thread on this very forum discussing such things. So I believe that point of yours to lack merit. Secondly, your disgusting comment. It was an analogy. That's the nature of a discussion, such manners of speaking being used. He didn't mean to make war seem any less irrelevant. Lastly, your Bush comments. Why can't people believe he won the election? Or just admit that if Gore had won, the conservatives would be saying the exact same things the Liberals are saying. Bush and company took their case to the Supreme Court, the higest authority in the US. They ruled in favor of Bush. Move on. And Where is this bullying of nations you speak? Have we intimidated any nations into doing our bidding that other nations didn't to us as well? The US gave aide to certain coalition countries in exchange for their help. We bribed them. France did the same thing to, except to keep countries out of the war. And if we are going to talk about oil, France recived large amounts of oil from Iraq, but people forgot that little fact when their anti-war stance was well-known. So if you are going to condemn the US, condemn the rest of the world for engaging in politics. This happens, and everyone does it. And what crimes is Bush committing that you mentioned? When he starts ruling like a tyrant, abolishes Congress, and starts committing mass genocide on the people of this country, then you can talk. But a statement like that shows your complete and total ignorance of the world around you. It seems you would be anit-war, and I don't have a problem with that. I don't want war either, but sometimes it is justified. What was Saddam Husseing doing that was different from Hitler? The US ousting Saddam was a good thing, no matter what kind of spin you try to put on things. And finally, THIS IS ALL POINTLESS!!!!!!!!!! Never once in the time I've been here have I seen someone swayed from their opinions in this kind of discussion. Some people throw out their facts, and believe they are right. Some throw out the other facts, and believe they are right. NO ONE WINS!!!!!!!

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Come on, shake the Nub,..... you know you want to.

"thank you American soldiers for sticking your nose where it doesn't belong and killing tens of thousands of innocent people"

Yes. Praise Saddam Hussein for using chemical weapons on the Kurds in Halabja. They really deserved that, didnt they?
When the UNSCOM started their inspections Post-Gulf War, they found a clandestine nuclear program which, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency, might have produced a usable weapon by December 1992. In 1995, Hussein Kamil, Saddam's son in law, defected to the US and came with information detailing Iraq's previously unacknowledged biological weapons program.
Richard Butler, former head of the UNSCOM, said that in 1997 while they were inspecting an Iraqi food lab, they saw two Iraqi officials try to run out the back door. The UN officials seized a briefcase from one, which held biological test equiptment and documents linking the HQ of the Iraqi Special Security Organization to what apeared to be a biological weapons program. Since the Iraqi general refused to explain the documents, UNSCOM made their way to the HQ to do a no-notice inspection. About a half mile from the building, armed Iraqi guards stopped the convoy. Iraqi officials said it was a 'presidential site' and was off limits. However, according to what Saddam signed at the end of the Gulf War, /nothing/ was off limits. Plus, U2 aerial pictures showed that the presidential palace was a mile from where their motorcade had been stopped.
In 1998, a senior member of UNSCOM's chemical weapons staff handed Richard Butler a lab report containing the analysis of a number of destroyed missile warheads that had recently been excavated. The report showed that some of the warheads contianed traces of a chemical (EMPA) that was a degradation product of VX nerve gas. Several years earlier, Iraq denied it had ever even produced VX. When confronted about it, Iraq said they 'only' produced 200 liters of it (note that a single drop of VX can kill within an hour). UNSCOM was able to prove they had actually made at lesat 3,900 liters. Loading VX gas into missile warheads doesnt really fall under the Self-Defense category.
According to UN weapons inspectors and western intel agencies, Iraq possesses the necessary components and the technical knowledge to build nuclear bombs in the near future. A report by the German intl services in December 2000 predicted that Iraq will have three nuclear bombs by 2005.
The Federation of American Scientists reported that Iraq possessed the equpiment, know-how, and materials to produce 350 liters of weapons-grade anthrax per week. In the five years before Desert Storm, Iraq produced 8,500 liters of anthrax and managed to place 6,500 liters in various munitions.
I'll stop there to keep it from getting even longer. A dictator that used chemical weapons on his own people could have possessed VX gas, nuclear weapons, and anthrax had he gone unchecked. But you think we should just mind our own business? How about...no. As a world power, it /is/ our business.

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"And when I vest my flashing sword And my hand takes hold in judgement I will take vengeance upon mine enemies And I will repay those who hase me O Lord, raise me to Thy right hand And count me amoung Thy saints." - Il Duce, The Boondock Saints

I'm wasn't comparing war to a game. My point was that we achieved something, and because we rejoice it, Mikus hates the "patriotism." I was just showing that if our side makes an accomplishment, of COURSE people on our side are going to be happy about it... but then we have people FUSS about it. Doesn't make any sense to me...

I do not in any way say that war is a game. It's war, it happens, people die, it sucks. But I was making a point, if that sickens you then you clearly missed it...
There was nothing disgusting about what I said. :\

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Do you have stairs in your house?

[This message has been edited by Correction (edited December 14, 2003).]

I kind of agree. Mostly because those people who are so proud and being arm chair generals haven't lifted a ****ing finger to do anything about what thier country has done.

I agree except I don't think the federal Liberals were incompetent. They just let our military go to waste starting with the airborne.

So America is happy they are helping Iraq.
America is handing out contracts to coalition countries to rebuild Iraq making America and those coutries richer. America will probably, just my guess, not allow Iraq to try Saddam thereby interfering with thier legal system (Saddam should be dead by now not given a hot meal and a shower). America has placed a government in power for now for Iraq.
America, most Americans and especially George could care less about Iraq and it's people.
If they truely cared, there would be no bidding by American corporations to American politicians for retail outlets on downtown corners of Mosul, Tikrit, Bhagdad and other large cities that we've been hearing about.

ehh... whatever.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.

I really can't decide if the opposing view sounds more conspiricy-paranoia or just plain bitterness.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

If Saddam gets to kill innocents we do too! Please to be shutting up now.

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

ou can still support your troops and disagree/bash you own country at the same time.
I'm sure there are more than a couple of troops over there bashing thier country for being there.
Doesn't mean they aren't doing the job they signed up to do and doing that job that most of us are too afraid to do.

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To artificial life, all reality is virtual.

I'm not even going to bother with this one...

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Do you have stairs in your house?

That's how your arguments sound to me, I'm just translating them back for you. Your shield of euphemisms is being blown away by my cannon of sacastic analogy. Fear.

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

Euphemisms? Do you even know what that word means? I haven't been using euphemisms...

If my "arguments" sound that way to you, maybe you should read them again.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Do you honestly think any of the civilian deaths caused by the USA were intentional?

I guess I'd better clarify my point - chances are that there are probably a hell of a lot more civilian incidents are casualties than the media is willing to show you, or is allowed by the government.



I don't really understand what you are trying to say here. My comment is disgusting because I don't think his analogy is respectful or valid?

As for the my Bush election comments - I never said that Bush cheated his way through the election, but I acknowledge that in these times, and considering that it's politics, it IS a possibility. Do I seriously think it's true? No. Do I think it's sad that he is holding office? Yes.



I agree. But this IS a discussion, and this is what discussions are for - presenting your ideas/statements and defending your opinions.

Maybe this isn't the right place for this discussion - sorry Snake-Eyes, this probably isn't what you expected when you posted this.

Correction: I still don't understand how you weren't likening war to a game, but I won't hold that comment against you in the future.

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Eat the pudding.

But they`re not done paying the price. During this operation, people were killed. As a result, others will want revenge and will group into terrorist cells, and so the endless circle goes on. Don`t be too surprised if you keep getting terrorist attacks like 9-11. By trying to prevent them, you end up causing more. Sure, you got some of the baddies that did THIS one, but by doing so you just shaped another generation of baddies.


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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

Can't speak for him, but I think you read more into the analogy than was really there. Correction (or, at least, I think it was Correction) didn't mean to cheapen the loss of life by comparing the war to a mere game. He was just pointing out the fact that, just like in a game, those who win are going to be happy about winning, and proud of the way their side played/fought.

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"Why aren't I'm using at these pictures?" - Cloud, 4/14/02

War is a game!

People get hurt sometimes! Oh well! Accidents happen!

I call those euphemisms.

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

DID YOU FORGET TO OPEN YOUR EYES WHEN YOU READ?[/b]

I specifically said I do NOT COMPARE WAR TO A GAME.[/b]
I also do NOT[/b] remember using "accidents happen!" as a euphamism. I don't even know how you COULD use that as a euphamism, and so I close by asking the same question I began with: DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE WORD MEANS?

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Heh, a euphemism is a vague reference to sex, or a way of politely referring to it without drawing attention


http://walkingdead.net/perl/euphemism

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Eat the pudding.

Well, I guess that about wraps things up here...

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

Yes Correction you did. When I said you shouldn't be happy that your country killed thousands of people who did you no harm and you said that you would be just as happy when your team won a game. I would call that comparing war to a game. Perhaps you should open your eyes when you type? Yes, I do know what euphemisms are and perhaps this doesn't exactly fit the defintion but find me a better way to describe it when someone calls a 6 year old child being torn apart by a grenade lobbed into a house thought to contain terrorists "an accident" whoops!

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

I am not a hippopotamus
I am a hippopotamus

I SPECIFICALLY SAID I AM NOT A HIPPOPOTAMUS

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

But he nailed you on the euphimism thing. You'd best be calling it quits.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

Er..a euphemism is jsut a nice way of saying something else. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sex...

Explain.

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June 16 - A night to remember
Ex-Council of 14
Miken
"The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself?"

You must have took that part of my message seriously then. Because I said before that I also disagreed with bush. But then again, like I said, I am not getting violent, let alone yelling at people.


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<Glyde> but.. you can't pick pickled peppers, even if a pickled pepper picker could pick pickled peppers!