I was hoping we could start a cleaner, more respectful thread for this...

Apparently the admins can't allow that.

Hey Wolfy, perhaps you could answer the question instead of posting flamebait yourself?

It's a valid question.

Who says he goes to heaven? The Bible? If so, what verse? God? You? And why?

If you have a problem with showing a little respect, stay out of this thread.

Please, don't bring this to a creation vs evolution.

The next 3 weeks I think will be very interesting, and I think I will be watching CNN more than I have in the previous 21 years.

Erm, what? What's so great that's going to be on CNN for the next three weeks? You're telling me you're going to be glued to CNN watching a bunch of people arbitrarily select the next leader of the catholics more than say, watching the war coverage two years ago? 9/11? Wow.

The point it that that is what is said when someone dies, but because the man was the Pope, we openly call the possibility of his entry into heaven into question.

That just isn't done, it's just bigotry.

According to Malachy's Prophecies...

There is only 2 popes left before the end of the world...

They are the described as Gloria Olivae (The glory of the olive)
and
Petrus Romanus who "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people".

It's weird. I mean, with all the descriptions he gave of prior popes, its easy to take the abstract meaning and apply it to anyone. And there's also no mention that there will be popes that reign between Gloria Loivae and Petrus or that there will be none - so people are unsure if this means just 2 popes left or more.

Some people think they are forgeries. Some think they are accurate... Who knows. If you use the line in the bible how no man knows when the end of the world will come, then you can argue this too.

*shrugs*

I prefer Nostradameus still... 3000 something when he predicts it. No worries with his prophecy...:)

Freelancer, I watched CNN for a week back when 9/11 happened. It was pretty much the same thing over and over and over. And over.

No disresepct intended. Like I said, it's a valid question. Quit acting like you're being persecuted or something.

As far as I know, there's no official documents that say the pope goes to heaven, but since the pope is supposed to be a very holy person, I think it's safe to assume most, if not all, the popes have gone to heaven.

If not, the rest of the world is screwed. [gah, bad wording... I mean more like if the pope is holy and he doesn't go to heaven, what does that say to the rest of us 'less worthy' people?]

It's a rude thing to say. When someone dies, you don't say, "Well, they're probably in Hell right now."

I didn't say that. He probably does go to heaven, but im just asking, who says he does?

Ooops. Apparently I need to practice thread merging.

Anyway. It's struct me quite. My rosary was blessed by John Paul II when my grandparents went to St. Peter's Square in 1984.

@ wolfy: *slaps forehead* Oh, brother.........

It's especially rude since some people do care about the Pope, and his passing, yet people will belittle him, his passing, his life, and imply he's in Hell, just because.

The Catholic church, and, I would bet, at least some percentage of Protestants.

I'm sorry I took your words out of context. There seem to be some people in the world who enjoy saying things like that with the sole intention of igniting feelings concerning a sensitive issue.

I may not be a lover of roman catholics and the organised religion (cept catholic school girls), but it seems he was a cool bloke in my scruffy opinion.

*me raises a glass for the old dude

ALl the best, send my regards to the bearded bloke upstairs

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Actually, you shouldn't respect the Pope just because he is a holy figure to people, but you should respect him because he has done ALOT for world peace, poverty, the Middle East, and much more. You don't have to be Catholic to know that they guy has done more with his years as pope (the later part of his life) than most people will ever do with there entire lives.

And about Heaven, I don't know much about Catholicism, but Catholics believe that the Pope, along with other Catholics, will go to heaven. Religion isn't about (physical) proof, it's about faith.


Note, I am neither Catholic, or hardly religious anymore.

He has also stifled a lot of scientific research, much of which could have saved many many lives. And he involved himself in many political matters that really had nothing to do with him.

How many unwanted children have there been because of his stance on contraceptives?

Why do you always have to do this, Freelancer? This thread is not titled "Rip the Pope a new one". This was not created to discuss how the guy sucked. You have been making remarks that are calloused and offensive to other people. Consider this, there may be Catholics on this board, or people that respect the Pope, and they might find your remarks offensive.

Well you get offended easily.

All I'm saying is this. I'm not Catholic. The Pope does not and never has played any role in my faith, but I still respect him for his life and because, at the very least, cause the dude died. I therefore avoid saying things like

I'm only asking that you share the same discretion and respect.:)

It is a great shame that the Pope has passed away, the man did alot for the world, and one has to respect the fact he didn't falter on his convictions. On a completely different note, I continues to lose more and more respect for some of the people that frequent these forums, it's unbelievable. The lack of tact and respect, the apparent willingness to provoke an argument just to be a pain in the ***, my god people, whats the deal?

Catholic checking in.

The Holy Father has made some mistakes. He should have been more forth coming on the priest scandal. He's not perfect.

Nubs has a point. I'm seeing this too. It seems that whenever someone like this is dead or gravely ill we're bickering about their shortcomings or personal positions. Yes he was a religious figure. The reason why he's getting this much attention because he was the spiritual leader of millions of Catholics. And all around he was a terrific guy! This is not a thread to tear the Pope a new one. This is a thread to pay respects to the loss of the Holy Father. If you cannot abide by this then do not post. If this flamebait bickering goes on, I will take action.

I guess if you want to see something enough, you'll see it.. sigh... someone says something completely harmless and then everyone needs to start acting like they're being presecuted by fabricating flamebait. This is especially bad with religions.

But hey, if everyone doesn't agree with your sugar-coated view of the world, just lock the thread and claim flamebait, eh? Er.... Go pope... ! He was a great man, just great! He did so many great things in his life!

Freelancer, for all that is good in the world listen to me:

SHUT UP.

You're only instigating flames and whatnot in a thread that's meant to pay respects to the pope, who (whether you think so or not) was a great guy to millions, hell BILLIONS (probably) of people.

But aparrently, instead of letting people mourn the passing of someone they cared greatly for (for reasons I've already explained in the chat), you have to continue to bicker.

As strange as this sounds, I implore an admin to close this thread. It's sad we can't even talk about the passing of a huge religious figure which only would've taken a LITTLE respect.

I disagree wtih closing the thread. Why should we let the actions of a few immature people dictate the policy of this thread?

And for my beliefs/opinions, I completely neutral to the pope's death. On the one hand, it's a bit sad, but on the other, his body was pretty much falling apart, and I bet he's been in a lot of pain for several years now. I'm almost glad that he'll now get some rest.

As far as whether or not he's in heaven, I assume he is, but I wouldn't say I believe 100% either way.. Who are we to make a declaration on that? Only God can know for sure. And besides, it makes no bearing on this situation, so why even bring it up? It's not like we can do anything to influence the situation. And I try to base my actions on the idea that if I'm not part of an issue, I can't make it better or worse by piping in my 2 cents. Why don't we all that way? (Maybe an admin should make that a forum rule. :P)

I can see that you must have the final word, so I'll let you have it. I would just appreciate if you would stop fabricating flames.

I agree. I'm glad that he'll finally have release from the pain he was living with. Death is a sad thing, but when it relieves that kind of pain I find something of a comfort in it. He's run his course, I'm glad he can find rest in his God now.

He's earned the rest, as it were.

True dat.

There's a hole in your condom, ya know.

And, to prevent the LTTIS syndrome for this case, the man earned his rest and a new one will replace him. Abracadabra!

How old was he? Someone mentioned they thought he was around 100 and that's why he was in such bad condition, but that he was in fact a good deal younger than that.

This is actually a serious question, but do they encourage the Pope to go through any physical excercises and such? If not, they may want to look into that for the next one.

I believe he was around 85 or 86. Hey, he beat the average male life expectancy by about ten years, so I'd say he was physically able enough.

84 he was.

No. I don't think he's required to go exercise. Old age got the best of him really. To go on like he did despite all the ailments he contracted, he may have been more "fit" than you believe.

Especially the gunshot wounds to the chest.

What about Pope Urban II? He started the crusades. Pope Innocent IV? He officially sanctioned the use of torture.

If anyone here thinks that some old fart calling himself holy is gonna go to heavan because of it, think again.