Love certainly does not equal sex. I once got into a discussion with a guy at work who said I had no right to tell him who he could or couldn't love. I responded that love is not the same thing as sex. He assured me that it was after which I asked if he loved his mother. I believe that we should love everyone. Most people reading this forum would agree that incest is wrong and disturbing even between adults. Why is it so shocking that some would also find the thought of two people of the same sex engaging in sexual activity wrong and disturbing, given the mores and taboos that are still in place in every society regarding the control of sexual behavior?

People have screwed distant cousins, mothers, and even brothers/sisters in hopes to keep their bloodline strong. Some countries still do this.

Incest creates retards and cripples. Don't kid yourself if you think it's a social thing.

By the way, you DO NOT have a right to tell ANYONE who, and who they cannot love. Sex, or Love. It's none of your business, nor are you a god of any kind. You can think it's wrong all you want, or teach your kids the same thing, but you can't actually tell me what I can and cannot do.

JediKirby

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<]-[ellequin> Nothing is quite as satisfying as placing a .177 lead pellet in between the eyes of a cat.
<]-[ellequin> I think I will leave it's corpse there, to warn all the other cats to keep out of my hibiscus patch

Live on, Adam.

He was the one saying that, I was only saying it was wrong. We can say what people can and can't do in society, by the way. That's why we have laws against murder and stealing, etc. Any interaction between people is a social thing.

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"the mouse is my chisel."
MotS mp:
Little House of Hazards
Surface Disposal Outpost

...



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<]-[ellequin> Nothing is quite as satisfying as placing a .177 lead pellet in between the eyes of a cat.
<]-[ellequin> I think I will leave it's corpse there, to warn all the other cats to keep out of my hibiscus patch

Live on, Adam.

[This message has been edited by jEDIkIRBY (edited June 06, 2004).]

Exactly. It happens quite often that when I say something is wrong the response is that I can't tell the person what to do. I wasn't telling him what to do but that was his response.

*head explodes*

That's not logical, in any way shape or form. Orginise your thoughts logically, and in order, please.

JediKirby

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-Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council
<]-[ellequin> Nothing is quite as satisfying as placing a .177 lead pellet in between the eyes of a cat.
<]-[ellequin> I think I will leave it's corpse there, to warn all the other cats to keep out of my hibiscus patch

Live on, Adam.

An excellent response to nothing. Reread it if you have trouble.

Look, I'm not sure where you're coming from. It's sounds like you're saying I'm contradicting myslef, which I'm not. My original point was somehow lost which is that "love" is no the same thing as sex and that society does place taboos on certain types of sexual behavior. Thus, I don't see why it should be so shocking that I find homosexuality to be wrong or disturbing. If you can't follow that I don't know what else to say.

[This message has been edited by adrenal_medulla (edited June 06, 2004).]

So, um why don't we have the right to tell you who you can't love? Not saying we do, just asking. Be glad you don't live in the middle east. Heck you can be gay for all I care, I just don't belive it's right. It dosen't hurt any one but your self. I wonder if we'll be having this same conversation about bestiality in 10 years. (Whee sex with cats) So any way, like I say, be gay if you want but don't make me like it ok?
Also, people bring up contriversial topics, and get mad when theres controvercy. If you don't like it, don't bring it up, or don't join the thread. *Duh*

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited June 06, 2004).]

How ironic. That post gives pretty much the same impression.

I seriously doubt we will be having this discussion about beastiality in 10 years. There is no way in hell anyone can say that those animals are consenting...

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"Just remember -- No matter how bad things get, Northern Minnesota will always be there"
-- Garrison Keeler

Incest was very popular in ancient Egypt. It mostly produces stillbirths, so it isn't really very...efficient. I never actually understood why incest has such effects (I wasn't very good at biology), but I imagine it is something to do with the two sets of genes being too similar and the child lacking some gene? I'd be interested if anyone knows specifically what happens. But anyway, yes, incest is unnatural, because of *answer to above question*, but homosexuality isn't quite the same..

Homosexuality is very useful for controlling population size, and it is very frequent in large insect groups. That way, the insect will still contribute to the community but not reproduce.
Sounds simple? Well, it isn't. Because the homosexual doesn't reproduce, there clearly can't be a single 'homosexual gene' (as that gene wouldn't be spread), but I believe the going theory is that homosexuality is caused by a combination of certain genes. As population size grows, the probability of achieving this combination increases. More and more of the population will become homosexual and it will slow down the population growth rate. I don't think it is likely that the population size will decrease due to homosexuals, but it will slow down a population boom.
This is observed in insects and other creatures where population sizes fluctuate quickly, but I'm not sure if it's been observed in mammals. There have been homosexual goats and deers and dogs observed, which is odd, as they don't have especially large population growth rates, so perhaps there's some other factor at play too.

Whether this has any effect in humans is considerably more complicated. Many creatures have, to some degree or other, the ability to learn and adapt and not just be reliant on genetically-determined stimuli like robots. But humans are swung way to that side of the spectrum, and pretty much all of your behavior is based on adaption. So it is very hard to tell whether homosexuality in humans is caused by genetics or social influences.
But homosexuality is far from pointless.

Incest increases the possibility of forming negative genotypes. I don’t know how much you know of biology so I’ll assume you nothing so that I don’t leave anything out. My apologies if I cover stuff you already know.

Generally speaking we have two copies of each gene and we can represent this by two letters eg Aa. A capital represents a dominant gene and a non-caps is a recessive. If the mother is Aa and the father is AA for a disease, then the kids will have a combination of either Aa or AA.

One parent across the top, the other down the side in bold and cross them.

A a
A A A Aa

A A A Aa

Then two children with Aa end up having babies their kids will have the following genes.

A a
A AA Aa

a Aa aa

The two recessives end up creating the disease, which might not have happened if they reproduced with a non-family member. If you keep repeating this cycle, you can imagine how “defects” can become more prevalent.


/end science lesson.

And to make my post relevant to the discussion, why do all homosexual debates end up nitpicking over the morality of sexual intercourse? A homosexual relationship is more than the physical act of sex, like any healthy relationship, the core of it is love for another person.


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This one day I went to change my password, but being the clever chappy that I am, I accidently typed the new pw into the e-mail address bar and clicked submit, hence the slightly modified new user name. Go me and my awesome computer skills.

[This message has been edited by Run- (edited June 06, 2004).]

You have a serious problem in your belief. FORGIVENESS FROM GOD DOES NOT MEAN HEAVEN. Just so you know. You must make up for your sins, by doing much more good things. Raping is a mortal sin, and there is pretty much nothing that will save you there, unless you do a complete 180 and save like a thousand dying babies or something.

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"The future is not determined by a throw of the dice, but is determined by the conscious decisions of you and me."
I am addicted to ellipses!!! AHHH!!! ...
Make Sorrowind Worthwhile... join it! http://sorrowind.net

Forgiveness does mean heaven, CM, however, you must accept it by repenting.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²[/i]

I'm curious: What religion are you?

Good biology lesson Run- I had wondered about that myself.
Oh and lmao @ your signature

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I AM NOT SKOOJ!!!

Yes, that did answer my question quite thoroughly. Thank you. :-)

So out of curiostiy, what does mean you get to go to heaven? What part of justifacation by faith alone do you not understand? Sad as it is, even God considers our best acts to be enough to put us in hell. So if your going to try to work your way to heven, you better take a portable AC unit. And alot of water. And an asbestos suit.

Um btw, man your right. I haven't had sex with any one, nor will I till I'm maried. It's a little hard when your only 14.

I am shocked that this thread has lasted this long with out getting locked. I bet it is before its a page older.

As Noble Outlaw has just pretty much pointed out.. it depends what you believe...

Curious as is Dogsrool, what "religion" are you?



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/fluffle

Just felt I had to post this, since I really don't see why religion has to be brought into these debates.



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"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"

You did.
(By which I mean God, not Jedigreedo)

He may be of the belief that forgiveness itself doesn't necessarily mean Heaven, just not Hell (the concepts of penance and Purgatory). The difference between repenting of one's sins, and coming to a point of perfection where one does not just want to love God perfectly, but is actually capable of doing it in the relationship of Heaven.

He may mean that the forgiveness itself (always there) is not truly there until it is accepted.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....