This post was an excellent refutation of everything I said and wasn't in any way, shape, or form similar to the calibre of wit one would ordinarilly encounter on a grade school playground. A++++, adding it to my recommended reading list.

I think his point, though badly done, was that you're using snowballing logic here, and you're taking an exception and trying to pass it off as the norm. No, I don't think a martial artist is harmless, but if you're up against a martial artist and you're not one yourself, I tihnk hitting in the first place is pretty unadvisable. What I'm saying is that in most cases, note most, not all, men are physically stronger, more robust, whatever. The point is normally, men are able to have more forceful blows, which I consider disproportionate force. If someone's posing a real physical threat to you, of course you don't just stand there - that's called idiocy. It will always depend on the case, but for the most part, guys hitting girls is disproportionate force.

you were using faulty logic there. Don't try to use exaggerated accounts to try to disprove something. If you hit someone weaker than you, it's disproportionate force. If the person is weaker than you, then they're not a physical threat.

And about the girls appealing to your sense of chivalry to get you to beat someone up, as despicable as that is, you have a brain. Just don't do it. If you do, and especially then try to blame her because she made you do it, you're not chivalrous, you're just dumb.

Oh nos! The logic is too sound! BURN THE WITCH!

That's totally untrue. What you're saying is that a girl is allowed to do physical damage to a guy, because the girl isn't as strong as he is? Explain to me how this works.

A girl is punching a guy in the face repeatedly. Because his max bench is 40% higher than hers, he isn't allowed to punch her. The girl then works herself to exhaustion, beating the man to death over a period of several minutes.

Durr. It's fair. He's a man, she's a woman. She's allowed to beat him to death because she has ovaries lol.

You're right, I have a brain. And I wouldn't do it. You missed my point entirely: I'm arguing that the people who treat all women like helpless little flowers would, and that makes them as dumb as a pile of rocks.

...that would qualify as a physical threat. you don't just stand there while you're being attacked, but you could maybe grab her wrists, walk away, etc... there are other ways to subdue someone

Most women can run faster than most men. Less upper body strength, less weight and stronger legs. Men can't run. Men can't defend themselves. And have you ever tried to restrain someone? You say that like it's easy, especially when you're busy trying to cover your face and groin.

Sometimes hitting someone back is the only way, even if they aren't as strong as you are.

Restraining a girl who's hitting you is a piece of cake.

As I have already posted, if someone is hitting you, the LOGICAL COURSE OF ACTION is to get them to STOP HITTING YOU. Hitting them back results in them HITTING YOU MORE. Restraining them results in THEM BEING UNABLE TO HIT YOU. Avoiding or escaping the situation results in YOU NOT BEING HIT. It's not that hard to understand.

This is assuming that, in this situation, you are stronger than the person attacking you, which, IN THE MAJORITY OF GUY VS GIRL CASES, the male is significantly stronger. Of course it doesn't apply to every situation, which is why it must be addressed on a case by case basis.

The law in my state...uh... states that if a women does 3 strikes of physical damage (3 punches to the face for example) a man may retaliate simply to defend himself, not to do more harm than what has been caused.

Silly laws :p

why hit them when you could just plant class A drugs on them?

You're ****ting me, right? Testosterone gives you the edge over women generally when it comes to most things athletic. If women could run faster than most men (ie their sex gave them an advantage) then we'd see women holding the world records for running at least one of the distance types.

Anyway, i think you're blowing things out of proportion and stating the obvious. No one is rigidly saying they'd treat a woman like a fragile flower if she were some weight lifting bare knuckle boxer or brandishing a firearm, but by and large the situation is much more benign. A more realistic scenario would be if some dumb drunk girl tries to attack me, I'm not going to beat her down for it, I can most often get myself out of the situation much more easily without anyone really getting hurt.

Mmm.

Precisely my point.

If your (or someone else's) life is in danger, the answer is obvious; you save yourself by any means necessary. If your life is NOT in danger, and there is NO REASON to use violent force, then you obviously should not use violent force.

In the majority of real-life cases of a girl hitting a guy, the guy's life is not in danger and there are several, non-violent ways that he can solve the situation. To say that he should just go with the most violent option simply because "the ***** deserves it" is idiotic.

And try, you know, actually forming a legitimate argument next time, instead of just mocking everyone that disagrees with you. You're not tough, you're not impressing anyone, and you look like a douche. Grow up.

Really? Walk me through it. Assume the girl has her heart set on injuring you. You grab her wrists, she boots you in the groin. You push her down, you're now in violence land. What's the solution here?

Strength isn't the only factor here: skill is, too. And there are a ton of women in Judo and other self-'defense' classes where they learn to use your size and strength against you.

Even the wimpiest little girl can use some damn heavy grapples and throws against the biggest guys. And if you charge a 120 lbs girl who knows kempo or jiujitsu, she'll probably break your neck. You don't know what the situation is, your strength can't always defeat martial arts, and sometimes you'll need to fight back to defend yourself.

I'm saying the exact same thing you are. What the hell is the problem here?

Testosterone encourages muscle development. This is why I said most men. How many men - or women - are distance runners? How much time do they spend training? If you give me the average woman versus the average man for a pure speed run, I'll bet on the woman every time.

Be careful not to confuse the function of epinepherine with the function of testosterone. Women have adrenal glands too.

Question: Would you ever hit a girl?
"No, I would not hit a lady." - tofu
"Hell no." - gbk
"I would .never. hit a girl." - Axis
"Trust me... hitting girls makes you lame. Its like picking on a child you being a full adult." - SF_GoldG_01
"No." - Dj Yoshi
"Never." - Koobie
"Not under any circumstances." - ORJ_Casoth_

"The only people who think that women do not pose any threat and shouldn't be harmed in any way, are the people who don't believe that women are equal to men." - Jon`C

I agree completely. Violence is the last option in a situation, but it should always be an option. If I'm in a situation where I'm forced to use violence, the person's gender isn't going to be a variable I consider. And it shouldn't be a variable anybody else should consider either.
I would hit a woman in the exact same situation I would hit a man: when I had no other choice.

Take something I heard in #massassi, for instance: Someone said that girls are weaker, so if they start speaking ill of your family you shouldn't be able to hit them. First off: He's so violent that he would be willing to strike someone after very little provocation. Secondly, he's sexist about it. If you're going to be a psychopath at least be an equal-opportunity psychopath. Not that you're still reading this.

I don't remember saying that, so I hope you aren't talking about me.

That's nice.

The overwhelming majority of people in this thread said the exact same thing I did, yourself included. Welcome to the Douchebag Club, Cow.

I take both sides to Jon'C and the other's arguments. Women are not equal to us. And yet they are. I will not explain why, because I feel confident that you already know what I'm saying.

(BTW, the run times are pretty close actually. The reason being is that male lungs typically are larger than females, but the males have more developed muscle and fat to carry around while running too. I am not an expert, but from what I have read this is my what I put together. JediGandalf is more of an expert at it though.)

Well, most people in this thread have good points, but some of them have decided to be total and complete *******s in nearly every way. Super, guys.

I wanna be an admin, so I can slowly bring about a community shift to excellence and friendliness. Plant the seed of tolerance, and whatnot.

Like I said. My sister and I regularly beat the crap out of each other when we were kids. I was a pretty violent kid. You should have seen the temper tantrums I threw. So my sister finally had enough of my antics and gave me quite a number of kicks in key places. Shut me up good sometimes.

Moral of the story: If people, male or female, need a good ***-kicking just to get them to behave, then go for it.

What I was trying to point out was that the best that "womankind" is able to achieve whether running 100m or 10000m, is slower than the best times achieved by a man. Considering this is uniform across all running distances, it would suggest that being male gives you some sort of advantage. On top of that women carry a higher percentage of body fat than men and naturally have less developed muscles for sprinting power. I wasn't ignoring the function of adrenaline, but since both men and women make use of it, I don't see how it factors in to any difference between the sexes. Personally, I would have bet against you in this hypothetical running race between average Joe and Julie.

I do weekly.

At taekwondo, while sparring...

Otherwise, no. never.

Yeah, I want to be an admin too, so I can slowly ban people at random and completely abuse any and all power granted to me... I'm lookin' at you, Aspy, you shall be the first on a long list, buddy!

Sorry, but that is a comeplete load of crap. Women do not run faster than men. Look at any sport that both men and women play (seperately). The mens game is much faster than the womens game at any level. Women do not have stronger legs. If what you said was even remotely true, wouldn't women be running faster than mean in the 100 meter dash at the Olympics, or any other running track event? Oh, that's right, it's not true. Of course, there are going to be women who are faster than men, but that's not the case for the majority. Where the hell do you get this stuff?

Regarding my previous post, the "Captain Obvious" points were merely pointing out that what you said would be obvious to just about anyone, but you're spewing it like it's some deep thought you came up with.



That's self defense. I don't know what your point is. That's not beating the crap out of a woman because you can.



Not in relation to the number of men out there who know the same things. I'd be willing to be that there are more men world wide who study some form of martial art than women. And even then, it's not a gaurantee that the woman will prevail. Don't act like it is.



First, why the hell would you just charge some random girl? It's stupid. If some one came charging at me, I wouldn't have much trouble avoiding their takedown attempt.





No. Men run faster.




Obviously. Anyone whowouldn't is stupid.

I'm sure this diatribe sounded like a great idea to you at one point, but if you actually paid attention to what you were refuting you'd notice that you and I were saying the exact same things.

Good job reposting the same arguments I already dealt with earlier in this page though.

The only people who I attacked in this thread were the people who said they would never harm a girl for any reason. Oh, and you. Because apparently I'm Captain Obvious.

lol..

Anovis, in your situation I think you did the right thing.. the only time I would slug a ***** is if she hit(and I mean how a guy would hit, not a slap or something) me first... fighting with a girl at school is only asking to get you beat up by guys around.

I know we're saying the same thing, but you still lack a lot of logic and are flat out wrong about some of the things you said.

This coming from the guy who claims that strength > martial arts training? Okay then.

There's your "taking it to an extreme" logic again. I never said being stronger than someone automatically means they can beat someone up. I said it was a factor that could affect the outcome of the incident, just like the martial arts training. Care to make any more gross exagerations?

And I love how you just ignore the fact that you're completely wrong about women being faster than men.

Really? Sure sounded like you were saying "strength > martial arts" to me, but I guess my logicsmithing isn't so good.
Here's anecdotal evidence. I know it's a fallacy, but bear with me for a second:

The guy who's teaching me kempo is a pretty small guy. 5'4" 140 lbs, maybe? I'm 5'10" 200 lbs. One of the very first things he showed me was how a small person can overcome someone who's larger and stronger than they are. A lot of kempo involves utilizing momentum: like if someone steps toward you, your punches are set up to channel their momentum into the blow. If someone steps into a punch, you clothesline them by the neck.

Another big part of kempo are grapples and throws borrowed from Jiujitsu. He had me put him in a sleeper hold. The next thing I know, this little guy tosses me like a ragdoll.

Martial arts skills shouldn't be discounted. You also shouldn't discount people who are smaller or weaker. It is foolish, whether you'd like to believe it or not. Someone who's smaller than you are can still be a serious threat.

I didn't ignore it. This topic was brought up above but I hadn't had a chance to look it up until now.

That said, I discovered this chart: http://www.thesportjournal.org/FITTEST/chart3.htm
As a result, I respectfully withdraw my comment about average running speeds of men and women.

I know what you're talking about with regards to using weight and momentum. My dad was in a very similar situation when he was taking Judo. His instructor was very small, but could throw around anyone in the class. All I'm saying is that having that training is not going to automatically make the smaller, weaker person win. Yes, it will help, but out of the general population, how many people have these skills, are skilled enough to effectively use it, and how many of them are women? You kept saying "tons" but is the number really going to be that big? (That doesn't mean that there aren't women out there who can kick an average guy's ***)

And the point was....? If a woman who I knew was trained in martial arts came at me, I'd use more force because more force would be required.

If someone pulls a gun and intends to use it, that fully justifies the other person to pull a gun in defense. It's called proportionality.

What was the point of that? Please show me where I said excessive force isn't or shouldn't be applied to both men and women. Btw, this place, despite a few perks, is a hell hole for me.

Just because I would actually be able to show self-control in a fight is no reason to be jealous.

Women are not precious little flowers. But anyone weaker than you are can be broken more easily, and if all that is going on is slapping, shoving, or weak punches then you have no right to break them or inflict more harm on them then they have or can on you.

Yes, sometimes hitting back is required. But not at just the threat of violence or against a low threat like being pushed or slapped.

I will not hit a female, but I will shake the **** out of one. I'll punch walls, desks, and anything else within reach as well as throwing objects at walls and such.

I refuse to physically strike the female, but beyond that, I don't really have any limits.

It disturbs me that no one got the reference. I assume Bill gets it. everyone else fails.

Who the hell flat out said yes? I need to add a few names to my hit list... jk, I swear. But at least say only under special circumstances. I hope you were just trying to be funny, even though its not. I understand that some of you were saying it just to say that women can be just as tough as men, you know, equality and all, but thats totally besides the point. Its what is right, what is proper, and what is moral and ethical. Heck, you shouldn't even hit another guy.

Oh I got it.

women r weak lol

back to kitchen

Sorry?

LIAR!

...kidding, <3!!

[QUOTE=Double Helix]Who the hell flat out said yes? I need to add a few names to my hit list... jk, I swear. But at least say only under special circumstances. I hope you were just trying to be funny, even though its not. I understand that some of you were saying it just to say that women can be just as tough as men, you know, equality and all, but thats totally besides the point. Its what is right, what is proper, and what is moral and ethical. Heck, you shouldn't even hit another guy.[/QUOTE]

Here's the thing: The "depends on the situation" option is too obvious and pointless. Of course it depends on the situation! No one that said yes did so because they like to smack the *****es whenever they get the chance. Wether or not I would hit anyone depends on the situation. I would hit a guy if the situation called for it. Given the same situation with a woman, I would hit her, too, because the situation called for it. I said yes, because, if I have no other options, I will hit you, no matter who you are.

Hold on a second. First of all, you ignored my main reason why. If I let myself get mad enough to take that first swing, I would end up causing serious injury. Secondly, you can only use my quote in that list of examples because you don't know my four sisters. Anyone who would call them delicate is asking for trouble. Believe me, fragility is the last thing I expect of females.

Only if they were trying to kill me with some sort of weapon.

I think you all mis understand me... I believe that maltreating a woman is something a true man would not do... only a coward would. I don't mean women are inferior, I mean that a man should fight another man... not women v.s. men.

If this is the situation I would try to make it come out as pacificaly as possible... or with out hurting her.
If the situation cannot be resolved that way, I would take the neccesary means to solve it... HOW EVER, I WILL NEVER BE THE CAUSE OF SUCH A SITUATION.