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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → A question for you christians out there...
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A question for you christians out there...
2006-08-16, 6:06 PM #81
well why the hell should you bother following someone if they dont have that ****?
2006-08-16, 6:08 PM #82
Originally posted by Darkjedibob:
Of course I question the Bible. You think every word in there is supposed to be taken literally? I don't see the entire Christian world shutting down on Sunday, or the banning of "unclean" items from stores. There's a couple places in there that contradict itself, in which case that alone proves it was written by man (mainly between the different gospel accounts). You can't take the Bible literally, that's what starts holy wars and motivates these fundamentalist whackjobs.

I didn't say take it literally--but there are parts that are definitely meant to be taken very seriously and literally and others that aren't. Some are obviously stories, others strict guidelines. Things such as "Believe in Christ as God's one and only son" definitely aren't to be passed off as non-literal interpretation bits. And there is scripture that says that--trust me, I used to be fed it day in day out, I may not be able to regurgitate it on command, but it's there.

Originally posted by Darkjedibob:
But that comes back to condemning every non-Christian to hell, which is utter bull****.

Yup. Now you see why I hate religion?

Originally posted by Freelancer:
Actually, the scripture you gave said none of those things. All it said is we are saved through Christ.

Christ could merely be some intermediary between non-believers and heaven.

I didn't give a scripture. But there are scriptures that say such things--ask any devout christian and they can probably give them to you on command. I'm starting to think it's a hypnosis thing the Bible has going on.

Christ is the Son of God, and you have to believe in him AS SUCH and AS YOUR SAVIOR to go to heaven. The bible is VERY explicit on this.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:10 PM #83
My point stands; God loves everybody. As long as you make smart choices in your life (i.e. don't run off and be a Hitler or murderer or fornicater..etc), God loves you enough to let you into His domain.
2006-08-16, 6:11 PM #84
Originally posted by Delphian:
My point stands; God loves everybody. As long as you make smart choices in your life (i.e. don't run off and be a Hitler or murderer or fornicater..etc), God loves you enough to let you into His domain.

Not if you're a Christian :v: (as in, if you're Christian the only salvation is through Christ, not through doing good things. There is scripture that states just being a good person isn't enough and Christ is the only path of salvation.)
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:14 PM #85
Thus, I believe in Christ.

But what I'm trying to say is that all humans are destined to heaven, untill they ruin it for themselves.
2006-08-16, 6:14 PM #86
Originally posted by Delphian:
Thus, I believe in Christ.

Apparently not. You just said if you don't believe in Christ you can still get to heaven. According to your supposed beliefs that's wrong.

Contradictions are so fun.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:15 PM #87
I edited my post.
2006-08-16, 6:16 PM #88
Originally posted by Delphian:
Thus, I believe in Christ.

But what I'm trying to say is that all humans are destined to heaven, untill they ruin it for themselves.

I like this. It makes a lot more sense than humankind being destined to hell until they un-sin or whatever.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:16 PM #89
Originally posted by Delphian:
Thus, I believe in Christ.

But what I'm trying to say is that all humans are destined to heaven, untill they ruin it for themselves.

That's nice.

You don't believe in Christianity. Sorry, you are the weakest link. Goodbye.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:18 PM #90
Originally posted by Roach:
So basically, I'm going to sum up the answers I've gotten for the original question:
We don't have free will, because it's God's free-will, and we are a little (sometimes cancerous) piece of him, so no matter what we do, it's God's act and not ours, and yet we are punished for it when God acts sinfully through us...

I did not make this thread so that my question could be ignored. You have thus far failed to answer it, and instead went into crap I really don't care about.
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-08-16, 6:19 PM #91
Originally posted by Darkjedibob:
Then why are there multiple Gospels, each with different accounts of the same events?


Because everyone who wrote the Gospels was God, and each time it was written He/the person writing it didn't have the other ones for reference. It's hard writing the exact same prose over and over from memory.
一个大西瓜
2006-08-16, 6:19 PM #92
And if you think about it, there IS free will in there. Free will to choose whether or not to run yourself off of the path to heaven that's already laid out for you.
2006-08-16, 6:20 PM #93
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]That's nice.

You don't believe in Christianity. Sorry, you are the weakest link. Goodbye.[/QUOTE]

You don't win by making crappy game show references.

I now declare myself the new God of Delphianity. ;)
2006-08-16, 6:22 PM #94
Originally posted by Delphian:
You don't win by making crappy game show references.

"Win"? There's nothing to win. I just threw that in there because I felt like it.

You can believe whatever the hell you want--but Christianity has one, and just one stipulation. Believe in Christ in that he is the son of God and your only way to salvation. If you believe any different, you don't believe in Christianity.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:22 PM #95
Roach, the main problem is your original post doesn't really contain a single, clear, relevant question. It does contain a whole bunch of rhetorical questions, though. Ask a question and we'll respond to it.

Is it more about why Christians believe suicide is bad? Is it more about if we have free will? Clarify, please.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:23 PM #96
Originally posted by Roach:
[yelling]

if you'd actually read the thread, you'd notice that absolutely nothing has been brought to a consensus, so if anyone answered you, it'd just bring back more arguing.
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2006-08-16, 6:23 PM #97
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Roach, the main problem is your original post doesn't really contain a single, clear, relevant question. It does contain a whole bunch of rhetorical questions, though. Ask a question and we'll respond to it.

Is it more about why Christians believe suicide is bad? Is it more about if we have free will? Clarify, please.

Considering you're not Christian, something tells me the pertinence of your answers to his questions will be lower than your sperm count.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:24 PM #98
I THINK THE WAY HE QUOTED HIMSELF KINDA GAVE AN IDEA AS TO WHAT HE WANTED ANSWERED.
2006-08-16, 6:24 PM #99
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Considering you're not Christian, something tells me the pertinence of your answers to his questions will be lower than your sperm count.[/QUOTE]

I was Christian for eighteen years and I am quite capable of using Christian logic to answer the question, thanks.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:25 PM #100
Originally posted by Freelancer:
I was Christian for eighteen years and I am quite capable of using Christian logic to answer the question, thanks.

No, you were mormon. There's a world of difference between the two.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:27 PM #101
Originally posted by Darkjedibob:
if you'd actually read the thread, you'd notice that absolutely nothing has been brought to a consensus, so if anyone answered you, it'd just bring back more arguing.

I did read the thread. And I've come to the conclusion that you christians don't know what the **** you're talking about. If you can't even agree whether or not you have Free Will (now pay close attentiong, Freelancer, that was my question "How can you have free will if God has a plan?") then how the hell do you know you're even correct about God loving you, or that following Jesus was even correct?
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-08-16, 6:27 PM #102
..which is irrelevant, since Mormons and Christians believe the same things pertaining suicide, not to mention Mormons and most non-biased sources consider Mormons Christian.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:28 PM #103
Religious debates are a horrible waste of time. :psyduck:
2006-08-16, 6:29 PM #104
Originally posted by Freelancer:
..which is irrelevant, since Mormons and Christians believe the same things pertaining suicide, not to mention Mormons and most non-biased sources consider Mormons Christian.

Haha, yeah.

Only no. Most mormons are very distantly related to christianity, but use a f***ed up version of the bible which pretty much negates their claims to Christianity.

Sorry, but once again, you're wrong.

Man, that just kinda has a nice little ring to it.

(ps, you live in Idaho, the closest nonbiased source is many hundreds of miles away).
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:29 PM #105
This shouldn't be a debate, I was looking for an answer, and apparently God didn't inform you of what to say.
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-08-16, 6:30 PM #106
I guess I'm just a benign tumor on God's ***.

/_\
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:30 PM #107
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Haha, yeah.

Only no. Most mormons are very distantly related to christianity, but use a f***ed up version of the bible which pretty much negates their claims to Christianity.

Sorry, but once again, you're wrong.

Man, that just kinda has a nice little ring to it.

(ps, you live in Idaho, the closest nonbiased source is many hundreds of miles away).[/QUOTE]

do mormons take it in the ***?
2006-08-16, 6:31 PM #108
I'm sorry free, but most non-biased sources I've seen lean towards Mormons believing in a rather Lucifarianistic mythos.
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-08-16, 6:31 PM #109
[QUOTE=Mr. Stafford]do mormons take it in the ***?[/QUOTE]
Not usually, I don't think.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:32 PM #110
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Haha, yeah.

Only no. Most mormons are very distantly related to christianity, but use a f***ed up version of the bible which pretty much negates their claims to Christianity.

Sorry, but once again, you're wrong.

Man, that just kinda has a nice little ring to it.

(ps, you live in Idaho, the closest nonbiased source is many hundreds of miles away).[/QUOTE]

You're missing the point. I couldn't care less if you think Mormons are Christians. The point is they have the same beliefs as Christians regarding suicide, so I am qualified to answer the question.

But that's irrelevant, since apparently Roach's question does not involve the doctrine regarding suicide.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:32 PM #111
Originally posted by Freelancer:
You're missing the point. I couldn't care less if you think Mormons are Christians. The point is they have the same beliefs as Christians regarding suicide, so I am qualified to answer the question.

Prove it. PS--this isn't about my beliefs, it's about a general consensus.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:33 PM #112
Originally posted by Roach:
I'm sorry free, but most non-biased sources I've seen lean towards Mormons believing in a rather Lucifarianistic mythos.


lol, that's not an unbiased source then.

I left that church and I certainly wouldn't go that far, at all. Most of the sources you use are pretty sensationalistic, I would think.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:33 PM #113
Here's an analogy:

A manager at Company XYZ wants to increase production to 10,000 units a month and make the processes more efficient. He creates a plan to do so which includes tasks for each of his employees. Now that there is an overarching plan to follow, this doesn't preclude the workers from having free will. They can choose to do something on Tuesday instead of Wednesday. They can talk to another employee and switch jobs. They can take a vacation. They can take a sick day.

Why is it any different with God's presumed plan? He can have a plan without explicitly knowing the future.
Stuff
2006-08-16, 6:35 PM #114
Originally posted by Freelancer:
lol, that's not an unbiased source then.

I left that church and I certainly wouldn't go that far, at all. Most of the sources you use are pretty sensationalistic, I would think.

Oh, right, forgot you were the ranking authority on bias and unbias.

Hint: You're not the all-seeing, all-knowing mormon specialist of the board.

Also, Joseph Smith was schizophrenic.
D E A T H
2006-08-16, 6:36 PM #115
I would say that family members who were members of the SLC temple and did that whole "baptizing the dead against their will in order to gain temple rights" who later went through an entire 3 years of global religion studies who have all told me that LDS temple rituals heavily borrow from lucifarian rituals would be fairly unbiased, Free. Especially when the angel that told Smith all about the tablets is the only one to say "I come out of the presence of God" instead of in.
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-08-16, 6:37 PM #116
The Mormon episode of South Park was awesome :P
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2006-08-16, 6:37 PM #117
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Oh, right, forgot you were the ranking authority on bias and unbias.

Hint: You're not the all-seeing, all-knowing mormon specialist of the board.

Also, Joseph Smith was schizophrenic.[/QUOTE]
try actually reading, say, religious tolerance's section on mormonism or even wikipedia. You'll see it's not a lucifarian cult or anything like that. Especially the contemporary version of the religion.

Jesus Christ, people, I don't condone Mormonism. I ****ing LEFT that religion. I just don't want you to spread ignorant misinformation about it.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:41 PM #118
Free, please explain to me the similarities between mormon "sacred" undergarments and the garments of high-priests of lucifarian churches or the garments of pagans. Since my sources are obviously biased, I'd like you to explain.
omnia mea mecum porto
2006-08-16, 6:43 PM #119
Originally posted by Roach:
I would say that family members who were members of the SLC temple and did that whole "baptizing the dead against their will in order to gain temple rights" who later went through an entire 3 years of global religion studies who have all told me that LDS temple rituals heavily borrow from lucifarian rituals would be fairly unbiased, Free. Especially when the angel that told Smith all about the tablets is the only one to say "I come out of the presence of God" instead of in.


that stuff is all so minimalistic in the contemporary religion that it has almost no bearing on what its like to be mormon. It's about fellowshipping people and being kind to each other and meeting together every sunday to worship jesus. It's about singing hymns and doing service projects.

Sheesh, that other garbage may be part of the religion, but no one likes that part if it anyway and focusing on that is totally missing the point, which is basically the golden rule. The rituals and stuff almost no one does anyway, plus its not really necessary.

Of course what you say is true, but your sources obviously chose to focus on the negatives and miss out on the point. There are tons of awesome mormon people. Period. That's really what its all about. No religion is perfect. they all have their cobwebs in the closet. Focusing on those is totally missing the point.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-08-16, 6:43 PM #120
Originally posted by Roach:
Free, please explain to me the similarities between mormon "sacred" undergarments and the garments of high-priests of lucifarian churches or the garments of pagans. Since my sources are obviously biased, I'd like you to explain.


undergarments are not doctrinal at all. they're something joseph smith instituted, plus no one really cares about them anyway.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
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