[QUOTE=Cool Matty]All of those games prove my point exactly :p

Anyway, Commander 598, the Wii also lets you use the Gamecube controller for a multitude of games.[/QUOTE]
How?

Warhawk is actually very innovative and new. Assassin's Creed IS on the 360 also, but I'm just naming games that have shown in-game footage. Not to mention...how the **** is Assassin's Creed like ANY game (except maybe thief) before it? Seriously, it's like Oblivion for assassination, only better. MGS4 is definitely going to be interesting, like every single MGS before it, it's almost guaranteed to be different from the one before it (MGS 2, 3, and Ac!d were all much different than MGS), and might be ported to the 360, maybe, but they've shown in game footage. RE5 is going to be on both systems, but they've shown in-game footage (unless I'm mistaken?).

None of those games "prove your point". At all.

Also, note, there can be no argument whatsoever for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray as per buying a 360 over the PS3--they're both the same quality, and both use HDCP I'm fairly sure (not positive on the HD-DVD extension), not only that but the HD-DVD extension will not play games AND it costs 180 putting even the least expensive Xbox option on par with the least expensive PS3 option. I'm just trying to get something clear here about the 360's extension, as I've had people ask me about it or comment on it in the past.

I think the PS3's sales will do fine, and I also noticed how 99% of the naysayers are fanboys of other systems and are also poor college kids. The demographic for the PS3 is 18-24, officially, but more realistically it's 18-27ish. The media extensions on the PS3 (which are either going to make it awesome with extras, or another "LOLMEDIA" like the PSP (god I hate Sony's proprietary formats)) add a layer of interest to a different generation that most people don't consider--it's not just for hardkor gamers, it's also for HTPC enthusiasts, especially with the easily upgraded HDD, and the HTPC market is growing very rapidly with inventions such as TiVo and whatnot.

I think I had a point somewhere.

Whatever, PS3 will probably do better than people expect, but it could fail because, let's face it, Sony has made quite a few mistakes.

I don't buy consoles, but I just might buy a Wii.

I'm buying a Wii simply because Gamecube ruined my love of Nintendo (after growing up with SNES and N64 .. *sigh*) and I want my childhood love of Nintendo games back.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I also noticed how 99% of the naysayers are fanboys of other systems and are also poor college kids. [/QUOTE]

Oi!

I'm a poor young professional and I can't afford one!

To be honest if you've got that much disposable income without saving for months and months you're spoiled or just plain rich therefore you should all buy me a pint.

<.<
>.>

But in all seriousness, the price tag on the top spec PS3 (and only real choice out of the two seeing as you're spending so much cash anyway) is debilitatingly high in my opinion, plus such things always cost more here than they do anywhere else

I might not even buy a Wii. I'll be seeing what you lot think of it first seeing as it'll appear in Japan and the US before Europe anyway.

Man I love console fanboy arguments. There's nothing funnier.

I dunno, some of the evolution threads are effing hilarious

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]De durr hurr PS3's hurr durr de durr, hurr de durr durr hurr 99% de hurr durr hurr hurr de durr durr hurr de durr de hurr hurr.[/QUOTE]...or it's because most of the market has turned on Sony (which it has), in favor of more agile competitors (which they are) who have produced more competitive offerings (which they did) in every segment of the gaming market except the one which is no longer a significant driving force of the market (because it isn't).

A lot of what people are saying is bull, yeah, but their general sentiment is reflective of the opinion of the market as a whole - even if their facts are suspect. As is the case with most gamers, the price is not going to be a significant issue. What will be issues are the novelty factor (which is completely owned by the DS and Wii), and the game selection. The Xbox360 has a greater amount of games that appeal to the American 18-35 age bracket (which is the driving force of the market) and the Wii will have an absolute stranglehold on youth/families/women.
I can easily see the PS3 sweeping Japan, but - as I mentioned - this is becoming more of a niche every day.

So yeah. Like I keep saying: you can call this anti-PS3 propaganda or Wii fanboyism or whatever you want. It won't change what I'm saying.

[QUOTE=Commander 598]Mark my words. You will be sick of the Wii controller after a very short time period.[/QUOTE]

$50 says I won't.

And everyone knows talking money doesn't lie.

On release? ****, I've had a reserve on that since October 2005! DAMNIT I WANT MY GAMECUBE VERSION.

And I hope I don't hear "HEY HEY HEY HEY" from no friggin fairies this time.

[QUOTE=Commander 598]Mark my words. You will be sick of the Wii controller after a very short time period.[/QUOTE]

"The" Wii Controller? There are going to be a couple. Although I know you mean the Wiimote, don't forget about the classic console controller, not to mention the GameCube controller plugs. Smash Bros won't use the Wiimote, if that makes you feel any better.

I've yet to meet a person who isn't a fanboy (or anti-fanboy) who actually thinks the PS3 will fail. I think it will do well and people will be surprised at how well it does, especially with the negativity shown here. I'm not saying it will come out on top though. Sony's made too many mistakes for that.

But it won't fail is all I'm saying Jon.

I found one. It's my brother. He doesn't like the Wii at all, he has wanted a PS3 since he first saw the Killzone and MGS4 trailers. He is deeply in love with PS3. Even he admits that he thinks Sony messed up big time. He admited that Nintendo seems to know what they're doing this time around and that Sony pretty much F'ed themselves. He's still buying a PS3 when it comes out, but atleast he admits that Nintendo is on the road to sucess.

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]I found one. It's my brother. He doesn't like the Wii at all, he has wanted a PS3 since he first saw the Killzone and MGS4 trailers. He is deeply in love with PS3. Even he admits that he thinks Sony messed up big time. He admited that Nintendo seems to know what they're doing this time around and that Sony pretty much F'ed themselves. He's still buying a PS3 when it comes out, but atleast he admits that Nintendo is on the road to sucess.[/QUOTE]
Uh...no, you didn't. I said people who think the PS3 will fail, not people who think Sony screwed up. Sony did screw up, even I admitted it.

I don't think the Wii will come out on top, but it will do very excellently. The 360 will show initial winnings, with the Wii next and the PS3 last, but a lot of people will begin to pick up the PS3 as better exclusives come out and the price drops.

lrn2red?

A failure to capture a significant portion of the market will essentially doom Sony. No market penetration for Bluray, losing the "war for the living room" and whatnot. Even a close third place would hurt Sony severely.

Spending billions of dollars on R&D, losing $300 per console and then getting next to nothing back in licensing fees? That's what I consider a failure.

But I don't think they'll take third. Eventually things will go Rev, PS3, 360. Blu-Ray will end up being on par or better than HD-DVD with a decent player for cheap (they both stand at about 1000 right now, if memory serves). DVD will still reign for a while yet, though.

I think Sony already HAS a significant portion of the market. But not the market of massassi. People underestimate the average stupid consumer. "Oh, 600 bucks! But it plays better movies! And if it costs 600 bucks it must be good. SOLD!"

Like I said, people overestimate the internet and underestimate the real world. If the internet's opinions mattered as much as people think, Net Neutrality and HDCP would have been destroyed long, long ago.

I'm not the one who underestimates the average consumer.

Maybe I didn't explain what I said well enough:

Sony's market strategy for the Playstation 3 isn't about games, it's about the "war for the living room". The Playstation 3 is designed to be a general-purpose multimedia hub for the household. The problem is that it's being marketed under the existing Playstation brand, and it is primarily sold as a gaming device. The average consumer - that is, the non-game-playing consumer - will not purchase a video game console if they do not play video games.

Microsoft's market strategy for the Xbox 360 is about games. It has multimedia features, but they work with the existing multimedia features of Windows computers. In the end, a HTPC running Windows MCE is positioned as the optimal choice with the Xbox 360 largely relegated to gaming.

Do you see the flaw in Sony's strategy now? Even if the Playstation 3 makes a decent impression on the market, pulling into second place, Sony will still fail because it's just not enough. Millions of gamers need to buy the PS3 (which they probably will) and millions of ordinary consumers need to buy the PS3 to serve multimedia. They'll both need to switch over to buying Bluray movies for the PS3 to be a commercial success and they'll both need to buy 6-8 Playstation 3 games for Sony to even break even on the sale of the console. This is not a good situation. Sony is going to lose a fortune on the PS3 even if lots and lots of people buy it.

Wow, that's why I said, just more eloquently. Did I get something right for once?

Haha. PS2. I'm sorry, but the PS2 destroys that concept. I know so many people who bought it SPECIFICALLY FOR the DVD player.

While I agree it won't attract a lot of casual and hardcore gamers--not as many as the Rev and 360 at launch (at launch), Sony's strategy on the "war for the living room" is partially what won them the PS2 round.

Seriously, the PS2 had the worst launch lineup, had horrible problems, but still outsold every other console and continues to outsell every other console. Now, yeah, it's because of the games. Why did it outsell the others in the beginning though?

DVD player, plain and simple.


You're also thinking in terms of Sony's PS3 launch making or breaking the company. They have a couple years to sell it, in which time the price of the PS3 will drop a bit and the price of the components will drop dramatically (especially after the Cell catches on, which it's bound to catch on--it's an extremely solid multimedia processing chip.)

I've heard your argument again and again, but everytime I hear it I just remember the PS2 launch and how many people I know bought it for the DVD player. After that initial penetration, which the PS3 will definitely get, people will slowly start buying more PS3s until it gets up to speed.

Sony might fail with the PS3--like I said, this is definitely a make-or-break time for them. But I don't think they will. You're welcome to have a different opinion, but it doesn't make yours right.

The only reason why I would ever buy a console is so that I could play Halo 3... That pisses me off that its on Xbox 360... and after getting an Xbox (owned it for about a year I think.... I have no idea) I just talked to a microsoft employee and he told me he helped out in the port of Halo 2 to PC, and now hes doing Halo 3. So its coming, apparently, to PC. At least the xbox was a gift... but Halo 2 is the only game I have for it.

HOWEVER. The game I am really holding out for is Alan Wake. I'm pumped. Also I want to get Half Life 2 sometime in the next few years...

I hate this console war. They all want to be number 1, the big honcho, the annoying little chubby dude with the moustache from monopoly. As a result all the good games are console exclusive. Goddamn console war, we don't want to have to choose $%&*&^ sides. We just want to play %&%^%* games. Why won't someone $&%^&%* develop a system that doesn't $&^%^% the game development industry. Noone likes exclusive titles. Noone cares for exclusive titles. WE JUST WANT TO PLAY %^%*&^&*^ GAMES!

Cause of you three losers (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) people will never have the joy of playing the MG series, Halo series, Zelda series, and any other great game that because of you three totally &^%*&^&^(*&(* us up for life. And shame to all you fanboys.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Haha. PS2. I'm sorry, but the PS2 destroys that concept. I know so many people who bought it SPECIFICALLY FOR the DVD player.[/QUOTE]This isn't the same situation as the PS2 and you know it.

At the time, DVD was already firmly established as the "next best thing". Consumers who bought the PS2 for its DVD features were already interested in buying a DVD player beforehand. Bluray isn't established. Consumers don't care about Bluray *or* HD-DVD. And besides that, "HD-DVD" snipes both 'HD' and 'DVD' marketing, and Microsoft swears that the Xbox 360 will end up being the cheapest HD-DVD player on the market when its adapter is done.

I just don't understand how to phrase it better than that.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Uh...no, you didn't. I said people who think the PS3 will fail, not people who think Sony screwed up. Sony did screw up, even I admitted it.

I don't think the Wii will come out on top, but it will do very excellently. The 360 will show initial winnings, with the Wii next and the PS3 last, but a lot of people will begin to pick up the PS3 as better exclusives come out and the price drops.

lrn2red?[/QUOTE]

Sony screwed up, thus the PS3 will fail. LRN2PHILIINTHUBLANKZ

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Sony screwed up, thus the PS3 will fail. LRN2PHILIINTHUBLANKZ[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Sony screwed up, thus the PS3 will fail. LRN2PHILIINTHUBLANKZ[/QUOTE]
Um. No. It's that sort of comment that starts these big arguements, SAJN. The PS3 hasn't failed yet, and last time I checked you weren't psychic. Nintendo screwed up last round - they didn't include online gaming. Did the gamecube fail? Not really.

Yeah.

It's not the same, but it's similar.

The HD-DVD add-on has been spec'd at 180. Like I said before, even at 300 dollars for the cheapass 360, you're looking at the price for a PS3 to play HD-DVDs. While the consumer doesn't care as much about bluray/hddvd, they still care.

Microsoft also said they'd have the 360 in stock with enough to meet demand, and then claimed there were extra shipments for a while after that. Not to mention the release date of Vista and many other things they've not delivered on. MS is good at propaganda, they even got you convinced

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Sony screwed up, thus the PS3 will fail. LRN2PHILIINTHUBLANKZ[/QUOTE]
By "philiinthublankz" you mean "make assumptions". Sony can screw up, everyone screw(s/ed) up. MS didn't put online play on Halo 1, a huge mistake. Did that stop it from being one of the best selling and most popular games of its time? Nintendo didn't put either high def or readily accessible (ie, not for the turbonerds) online play for their GC, but it's still doing well. The PS2 was the least powerful machine in the last generation, yet it outsold the competition a hundredfold.

Just because they make mistakes doesn't mean they will fail. You just want them to.


Thank you.

On that note I'm going to say this now--I don't know for sure which way the next gen console war is going. For that matter, nobody does, despite what they claim. Nobody. We can speculate all we want, but it's still just speculation. Until what happens happens, we can sit here and bicker until our fingers fall off, but none of it has a ring of truth or fact, just opinion and speculation. Keep that in mind guys.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]MS didn't put online play on Halo 1, a huge mistake.[/QUOTE]
Gee.... Could that have something to do with the fact that the Xbox Live service didn't launch until a full YEAR after Halo was released?

... I wonder.....

Stop spreading your Wii Propoganda, Phoenix! Fascist.

The WII looks cheap and it has lots of games.

I'm sold.

The thing I hate about Sony is that the FF series is hard to get on other consoles, and MG, etc.

I have a PSP and an X-box 360... that leaves me with 2 pieces of great hardware with very few good games.

I don't really care about excuses, my point still stands.

Good to know you're defending a game I didn't even insult though

Shut up, he's right. You don't have insult it to look like an ***.

You all suck at predicting the future, so quit trying. Can't we just wait until a system comes out before you starts flinging crap all over it?

Why don't you guys do what people did before the internet: Buy the damn thing you want. If it sucks, kick yourself in the *** until you can afford another try.

I'm buying a Wii because of the controller and Red Steel. Plus, between my brothers, we will have all 3 consoles anyway.

As far as who's going to win the console war this time around? Who knows? I'll just sit back and enjoy what I got.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I don't really care about excuses, my point still stands.

Good to know you're defending a game I didn't even insult though :v:[/QUOTE]
Your point stands.... How exactly if Live didn't even EXIST during the games development?

You know what... nevermind... I don't even care.

PS3 Delayed in Europe till March 2007? Go Sony!

Live isn't the internet.

Mario?

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]The HD-DVD add-on has been spec'd at 180. Like I said before, even at 300 dollars for the cheapass 360, you're looking at the price for a PS3 to play HD-DVDs. While the consumer doesn't care as much about bluray/hddvd, they still care.[/QUOTE]

I'm a consumer, and I don't care. I'd need an HD-TV to handle the higher quality video that comes with the new formats. I don't have ANY TV (Internet > TV).

Infact, I'd be more likely to buy a drive for my computer, which would cost less than a PS3 or XBox 360. Probably even if I threw in the cost of a Nintendo Wii. And I would be able to enjoy higher-quality without an expensive TV, at most I'd want a higher-res monitor, which I could upgrade to at my leisure.

On the other hand, DVD players are cheap, and DVD drives for computers are like $30.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I've yet to meet a person who isn't a fanboy (or anti-fanboy) who actually thinks the PS3 will fail. I think it will do well and people will be surprised at how well it does, especially with the negativity shown here. I'm not saying it will come out on top though. Sony's made too many mistakes for that.

But it won't fail is all I'm saying Jon.[/QUOTE]

I like Nintendo. I'll be the first to admit it, but I'm nowhere near "fanboy" status.

And I think the PS3 will fail. Maybe not bankrupt Sony, but I definitely think it will place 3rd this generation.

My reasons are simple.

It. is. too. expensive. Period. People will buy it, yes. Fanboys will buy it, and some people who have rediculous amounts of money will buy it.

But will a parent buy a PS3 over a Wii for their child for Christmas, lets say? The kid is 10, and he wants a console! Are you going to blow $600, or $200? Some will go for the PS3, but I think a majority will go for the Wii (or 360, but I'm not really taking it into much account here.)

There are a few other reasons, but none anywhere near as important as the price. I think it is just too plain much.

[QUOTE=The Mega-ZZTer]I'm a consumer, and I don't care. I'd need an HD-TV to handle the higher quality video that comes with the new formats. I don't have ANY TV (Internet > TV).

Infact, I'd be more likely to buy a drive for my computer, which would cost less than a PS3 or XBox 360. Probably even if I threw in the cost of a Nintendo Wii. And I would be able to enjoy higher-quality without an expensive TV, at most I'd want a higher-res monitor, which I could upgrade to at my leisure.

On the other hand, DVD players are cheap, and DVD drives for computers are like $30.[/QUOTE]
1) Blu-Ray and HD-DVD drives are both more expensive for the PC, less available, and buggier.
2) You'd need to buy an HDCP compliant monitor AND graphics card to replace your current solution. Easily, with the drive, over 1000 dollars.
3) The players are the most intelligent solutions right now. The drives just aren't...good. Why? Toshiba and Sony both want their solutions to win the "war in the home", which is causing frustrations for the consumers, and loss for the producers.

Sucks, but it's the truth.


Your argument has flaws though. And I consider you a Nintendo fanboy, sorry

1) Sony has, at the least, advantage over the 360 in the Blu-Ray player aspect. Even if for no other reason, that will drive sales more than you (and many others like you) give it credit.
2) The PS3 could only be 500 dollars if you want it to be. You used the most expensive version. It's still very usable at 500 dollars, and will fit most players fine (the ones who don't get HDTVs).
3) The price point IS high. But I think people look at price too much. I'm sure people spend, easily over 500 dollars on a console in the first year they own it, on games and extra controllers and other things, not to mention having to rebuy launch consoles that just were of crappy build quality. Price is an issue, but in the console war where you're now looking at PC replacements instead of supplements, you've got an issue. A 500 dollar PS3 which will entertain the kids for a long, long time, or a 1000 dollar PC which will show problems, be more complex, etc and will "end its life" in a year. Seriously, even 2-3 thousand dollar prefabs will be outdated in a matter of 2, maybe 3 years. Consoles don't get outdated for nearly a decade.

I'm a PC guy. I couldn't care less which console won. I'm just thinking Sony has one heck of a sell in front of them and that they don't really have the product to deliver.