I think it's more likely that it'll be phased out as it collapses, not that it'll be privatized. But you are correct in that it's very unlikely you'll ever see that money.

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Ω of 14

That's exactly the point I'm making. I'm not for abolishing income tax altogether, I'm for slimming down the worthless multi-billion dollar programs that are nothing but kludgy bureaucracy, so that I can pay significantly less tax. Say around 5-10%.

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Ω of 14

os.. Maybe when you stop being a selfish prick and start thinking about the BILLIONS of other people in the world who aren't a tenth as well off as you, you'll understand why you government is taking a quarter of 'your' money and spending it (or should be spending it) to help people whose don't make in a year what you make in a week.

And hey, I'm on a roll. I feel like replying to some of your 'points'.



So you'd rather they be privatized and you be forced to pay a rediculous fee to use them? Where do you think a private corporation would get the money to keep roads in good shape?



Last I checked, over a million people in the USA were in federal jails. Something tells me the police you pay for are doing a good job. And from watching the daily news, I think you maybe need more.



Not everyone can afford a private school. But hey, why should you help your fellow americans be literate? They're just the people you have to live with, after all. Maybe you could just cordon them all off down south.



I think you're confusing treating someone with paying for it. That poor family is going to see the bill, I guarentee it. The poor get poorer, the rich get richer.



I think publically funded firemen is alot cheaper and more effective then having to call in a private company and fill out forms while your HOUSE IS BURNING DOWN. More selfishness.



And where does the city get it's money? Magic? A money tree?



Pretty sure this is true.



But by the end of it, you're still more ahead then the single mother with four children and unable to get a job because she's single, female, and has children.

Hey, I hate seeing that money go, too. But by the end of the day, I know that I'm benifiting from it in the long run, and other people in my great nation who may not be as well off as me are benifiting from it as well.

The reason I say privatized is once that vacuum appears where social security once was, businesses will fill it. Some businesses already do this with there ex-employees. But I'm talking on a more insurance-like basis.

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Massassi: We don't debate. We *****.

Very true. My take is, if you can't bring yourself to voluntarily save for your own retirement (haven't people ever heard of tax-free IRAs?) then you don't deserve to eat when you get old.

It's natural selection-- the dumbasses all die of starvation and remove their genes from the gene pool.

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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited June 29, 2004).]

Man oSiRiS, whay are you so cynical today. If it is about an electon year, that is no excuse. Australia is also in an election year and our election is going to occur before your election. Also, what makes you think social security will be phased out.

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

Well I am sorry you ****ted around highschool and didnt try hard enough leaving you in a position where you need to pay for your own tution. What were you doing while you sat on your *** and did try?

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

<3 ******

****** > *


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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

I live in Canada, am 19 and in basically the same situation as you (though my job is a bit different - I'm considered self-employed). Have you even sat down with the US equivalent of the tax guide and figured out your return?

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

People like oS is what is wrong with America.
He doesn't seem to give a **** about anyone but himself. That means his country gets dumber because they are 'too lazy' to get a job and afford private school and his country gets sicker 'cause his fellow citizen who is a leech on society and can't get a job because it went to Mexico can't afford proper health care. And if his fellow citizen does get treated, he either gets the bill or poor oS there has to pay taxes to subsidize the hospital to offset all those scum that can't afford to pay for health insurance.

oS is living the good life and he just sits and *****es about it.

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Pissed off?

I don't care about elections, I've always been anti-taxes. It's just that this year I'm seeing it in action and it could cost me not going to college.

Now for juz's behemoth post of doom:

1. "os.. Maybe when you stop being a selfish prick and start thinking about the BILLIONS of other people in the world who aren't a tenth as well off as you, you'll understand why you government is taking a quarter of 'your' money and spending it (or should be spending it) to help people whose don't make in a year what you make in a week."

Are they working 50 hour weeks in a gravel mine? No?

2."So you'd rather they be privatized and you be forced to pay a rediculous fee to use them? Where do you think a private corporation would get the money to keep roads in good shape?" YES. I'm quite sure capitalism would THRIVE in this case, with wireless payment beoming standard. The fee would probably not be ridiculous; competition is your friend.

As a bonus, there would be no more need for a gas tax, meaning gas would be about 85 cents cheaper per gallon.

And maybe they wouldn't make cars lose their front tires!! You know, like Michigan's current roads do. Oh wait, you don't know anything at all about roads in Michigan because you live IN ANOTHER COUNTRY.

3. "Last I checked, over a million people in the USA were in federal jails. Something tells me the police you pay for are doing a good job. And from watching the daily news, I think you maybe need more."

They spend time going after white collar criminals instead of people who kill and rape, leading to hugely inflated prisons because more and more things become illegal thanks to our incompetent legislature system. I'd say they're doing a pretty piss-poor job.

Overflowing prisons are not a GOOD thing, juz.

4. "Not everyone can afford a private school. But hey, why should you help your fellow americans be literate? They're just the people you have to live with, after all. Maybe you could just cordon them all off down south."

I'm in full support of a voucher system so that public schools must compete with private schools. Maybe they wouldn't waste money on the most extravagent public buildings I have *ever* seen, then.

5. "I think you're confusing treating someone with paying for it. That poor family is going to see the bill, I guarentee it. The poor get poorer, the rich get richer."

No. If you can't pay, the hospital foots the bill. Which is why medical costs are so high, and yet another facet of the messed up healthcare system in the USA.

6. "I think publically funded firemen is alot cheaper and more effective then having to call in a private company and fill out forms while your HOUSE IS BURNING DOWN. More selfishness." You're totally off topic here, I'm in support of those services as I stated; they receive very little money and could still exist even if the government taxed me much less as they are low cost services (comparitively).

7. "And where does the city get it's money? Magic? A money tree?" To be honest, I don't know. It's not from the state and it's not from the federal government.

8. "But by the end of it, you're still more ahead then the single mother with four children and unable to get a job because she's single, female, and has children."

No I'm not, because I'm still broke after paying for college. But hey, maybe I'll someday have money because I didn't make a stupid, stupid, stupid financial decision by having sex and getting kids. But of course, SHE COULDN'T HELP THAT! Let's all cry for her ((((

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Ω of 14

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA. I'm a NATIONAL MERIT SCHOLAR. I took 3 AP classes last year and got an A in all 3, even though we do not have a weighted grading system. Do you have any idea what that means? Any at all? It means I tried!!

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Ω of 14

You logic is just failing in a multitude of ways. It appears that you're more interested in attacking me personally at this point than legitimate debate. Kind of like Ubuu.

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Ω of 14

alpha1: I said I could understand the reasoning behind Medicare. But really, I would rather pay out-of-pocket if something did happen, rather than continuously pay for something the may happen.

A flat tax of 5% would solve many of the government's financial woes. Everybody, rich or poor, gets taxed 5% of their net worth each year. Graduated taxes are inefficient, especially with the tax codes in place now. So many loopholes...

Ideally, each citizen should be able to choose where a sizable percentage of his/her tax money goes. Granted, some will have to be garnished for things people don't think of right away(maintenance of roads, police and fire etc.), but people should be able to choose the programs they want to support. The issues government allows us to vote on don't even approach giving us enough power as citizens.

Let me cite an example of this phenomenon:

Recently, our city (Cape Girardeau, MO) passed a .25% sales tax to increase police and firefighter funding; to get them new equipment and to raise their salaries. Well, not a week goes by after this tax is passed that the city hires an outside consultant to review employee salaries. This consultant will be here for 90 days, and the city is paying him $30,000. He is making more money in 90 days than some teachers do in a year. All to do a job that anybody with access to employee records and a thimbleful of common sense could do. But I guess commmon sense has become a valuable commodity these days. This is what I mean when I say we should be allowed to choose what our tax dollars pay for.

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Our very existence is at stake

Yay! I can finally join the snail-racing crew.

-@%

Oh poor oS. He's the only guy that ever had to work hard. waaaaaahhhhhhh... whatever.
We've all had to do **** jobs. And people will be doing **** jobs for millenia.

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Pissed off?

Obviously not hard enough.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

No. You're just whining like a little baby about a fact of life. It took me years to pay off my college debt. I've been working since I was 14. That's life unless you want to move to Germany.

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Pissed off?

Our corrupt politicians steal money from the Social Security fund. But that's not the only reason really. The real reason is much more down to earth and logical.

How social security works is that people pay into it through their lives and then are supposed to get it back later. But the thing is, they spent all that money that the people who are getting SS now put in. Which means I am directly paying for all of the people who are getting SS payments now; it is not being saved.

Now, remember that in America after World War 2, there was a population spurt, "the baby boomers". This group has been getting older and older, and is soon to reach retirement age. When they do, they'll all need their SS payments. The problem is that that huge population burst has a much smaller base of people trying to pay for it. Meaning SS will run out of money and collapse.

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Ω of 14

actualy, without a wiegthing system, it just means you did better than those in your class. don't sy that i doont know a thing about it. All of the colleges in my city(college is for 17-18 years old) perform weighting and moderating except for canberra college which for some reason follows the NSW form of education.

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

Cities get most of their money from property, sales, and luxury (hotel and resturant etc.) taxes.

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Our very existence is at stake

Yay! I can finally join the snail-racing crew.

-@%

[This message has been edited by Ric_Olie (edited June 29, 2004).]

I couldn't have worked any harder in High School. National Merit is pretty much the best of the best, top like 10000 of 1.5 million. I graduated Magna Cum Laude. I studied nightly and took college courses in High School. I got scholarships.

You know, I can't figure out why you and Darth Evad are attacking me personally. I've never done anything to you guys except disagree idealogically. In fact, I'm generally even *NICE* to you, Ubuu, giving you ops and stuff. Why all the hate?

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Ω of 14

GOd bless the new Australian organisation with powers to do things about corruption nationwide.

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

It also means that AP classes are graded on a 5 point scale instead of the standard 4 point scale. This means that public school kids can get over a 4.0, and I can't. But I'm not complaining about that because most colleges are aware of this so it's rather inconsequential.



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Ω of 14

It means you should be rolling in scholarships and the fact that you aren't in proof of how inaccesable higher education is in the USA.



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Juztyn
Taking credit for: Canyon Stream, Higher Ground, The Space Between, Death's Dome (mlp3), bits of JKRPG, and the entire Showcase forum, damnit!... Visit SWGalaxies.net for the latest Star Wars: Galaxies information!

There's the complacency I was talking about earlier.

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Ω of 14

You have come out to be a senseless, heartless prick in this thread. That is why I am getting on you. But, nevermind, some guys are posting some real good rebutals, and I dont have time nor the knowledge to sit and write something, so I will sound off, and let all continue.


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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

[This message has been edited by Ubuu (edited June 29, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ubuu (edited June 29, 2004).]

I am rolling in scholarships. It's not enough.

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Ω of 14

I didn't understand a word you said, all i a, getting is that you think that because hypothetically you got say 3.6 on a four point system and someone got a 4.4 on a five point system, you don't like it because it just makes you look bad even though you got the higher score.

god bless the psuedo standerdisation of the australian education system abnd it's way of showing how well you did.

(do you see a pattern in my posts?)

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

haha very pro aussie That's cool, take pride in your country. I generally love my country, I just hate taxes and bureaucracy.

This is my last reply because I'm going to bed (have to wake up at 6:30). I might check this thread tomorrow after I get out of work @ 5.

[This message has been edited by oSiRiS (edited June 29, 2004).]

Oh, oS...only if you knew I am going to school for free...and I had far less credentials then you in High School. You see..residents of Louisiana pay the state/governemt money..and in return everyone down here gets SCHOLARSHIP..not grant...SCHOLARSHIP money for doing well in school. The government does what now with the money?

The government can take whatever they want from me.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

because you are being more of a pain in the butt than checksum was.

BTW. does anyone have a link to the thread where he was banned or was it deleted or was it something else?

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

Then you are getting some really crap scholarships. Or just not enough. There are so many scholarship opportunities out there it is ridiculous(mainly because they are a really nice tax write off). There is a scholarship search engine site that had a bunch of strange ones, liking a scholarship for Irish decendency and stuff like that. I'll try to remember it.

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Massassi: We don't debate. We *****.

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited June 29, 2004).]

Man, if you guys don't calm down the rhetoric a bit us admins will also be taxing you next. Momma needs a new plasma tv.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1, 2 & 3 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Way to prove my point.

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Juztyn
Taking credit for: Canyon Stream, Higher Ground, The Space Between, Death's Dome (mlp3), bits of JKRPG, and the entire Showcase forum, damnit!... Visit SWGalaxies.net for the latest Star Wars: Galaxies information!

Yep. Me too buddy. But i'm not all for anarchy either.

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Chaz Ghostle you have the best taste in music. I can't tell how many times I listened to that song on your site.
My Personal Site | Remnant Temple Part A | A work in progress

I like the 5% flat tax system. At least you get to keep 95% of your income instead of 50-75% like you do now.

IMO, the government is impeding peoples' drive to succeed by taxing you more if oyu earn more money. Why should the rich work hard so the poor can have a near-free ride? It's almost as if the rich are getting punished for being successful. These days, rich people tend to be self-made, not people that inherited money from someone else like it used to be.


if someone ears several million a year, 5% of that is a s***load of money, and it's fair in proportion to what poor people contribute.

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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited June 29, 2004).]

yes, but remember, the poorer you are, the more of your income you need.

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

well, then if you have less, you will have to give less.

5% of $12000 a year (which is near poverty line for families, but okay for individuals) = $600 a year.

and 5% of $300,000 / year = $15,000 are very different numbers, yet they would be fair and proportionate.



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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

remember, there are many more families with that income than individuals. most individuals making that money would probably do it so they can earn money for college or are doing it as something to do for a while.

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Those silly bullets have minds of their own!
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)-@%

[This message has been edited by alpha1 (edited June 29, 2004).]

and your point is?




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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.