Really, I've mostly been playing a sort of Devil's Advocate. While I don't see anything wrong with properly pointing out the killer's religion I have no idea to what extent that relates to the murders. And to be quite honest I have no idea why the topic of Christianity even came up. But I'm sure that if an incident of this sort occurs and Christianity is suspected of being a part of it we will see plenty of reporting on it.

Good show.

Why should we report someone's religion only if they're Muslim? You don't hear news reporters saying that countless murderers (probably more than 80%) are Christian in this country. Maybe they did it because of their religion. Why is it all of a sudden so damn important if they're Muslim. The ONLY, ONLY explanation is you're a complete racist bigot! Period.

I'm tired of your racist bigot xenophobic discrimination. You're more than absolutely ridiculous and I'm getting really tired of your asininity.

What are you talking about? I challenge you to quote racist, xenophobic comments I've made.

It is justifiable to point out that he was a muslim because that is the main factor in many acts of violence in current events.

It didn't get reported because it's not remotely relevant to the story. They didn't mention whether he owned pets either, is that a cover-up? Do we, the American public, need to know what he ate for breakfast? If he wasn't a member of an extremist organization claiming to be Muslim, it would be relevant, but apparently he's not even a practicing Muslim. He could have been a Bokononist and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Dude went off his nut and started shooting people. The end.

.......in Iraq, NOT AMERICA.

It's not your fault you were raised to be afraid of muslims and gay people. It's just the way things worked out.


EDIT FOR INTERNET RAGE:

No it isn't. Not any more so than it's justifiable for me to point out that a drunk xenophobic hick is a Christian because it is the main factor in many acts of bigotry in current events.

(Hint: It isn't.)

(Further hint: You don't know **** about Islam or the countries you're talking about.)

(Bonus extra hyper mega hint: The social and economic causes of Muslim violence existed before Islam existed and were directly exacerbated by violent, bloodthirsty, greedy expansionist Christian Europeans)

(Hyper Giga Omega QUAD HINT: Have I mentioned that you don't know **** about what you're talking about yet?)

I don't really recall Wookie06 making racist quotes... I mean, the only one would be "Muslims kill infidels" but I don't think he meant it that way.

You guys are trying to crucify him because he has a point of view that is different from yours.

Now, I believe that Rush and O'Riley are probably two of the dumbest talking heads on the planet next to Ann Coulter and their careers rely on SENSATIONALISM and whipping Americans into a frenzy. Unfortunately, most people don't take the time to judge what they say at face value and investigate their stories see how skewed and flawed their reporting is BUT sometimes even Rush and O'Riley do get it right.

I could see them commenting on and trying to link Islam to the killing spree. Why? Because we were attacked by Muslim terrorists 6 years ago! If Christian terrorists were still frequently blowing up abortion clinics, then I'm sure if a Christian walked into a mall and started shooting people, his religion would be mentioned. Probably not much because our country's political machine and General Will seem to run on the Christian church and the tradition of religious ignorance unfortunately and many people still make the claim this is a Christian nation. So until the majority of people in America stop claiming to be Christian (which, if you look at how we live and our foreign policy we're definitely not a Christian nation) you won't hear our leaders (even stupid talking heads fall into this) talking about those evil Christians.

Oh, and just to be safe. I'm extremely for personal freedoms of all kind and the accumulation of private property as long as it doesnt harm others. It kind of makes sense if you've speed-read Locke, Rousseau, and Mill in the past week.

You have got to be kidding. There are acts of violence that can be attributed to practicing muslims worldwide. Of course the point can be made that the same is true of Christians however most violence committed by Christians is not done so in the name of the religion.

Most violence committed by Muslims is not done so in the name of their religion either. You watch too much Fox News.

Give me a break. I've been to the countries you claim I know nothing about. What you probably have little understanding of is the fact that we are the target of a religious war. That is what makes the killer's religion relevant regardless whether or not it was a primary factor in his spree.

Or visit too many muslim nations.

Most violence committed by muslims certainly isn't done in the name of their religion. But virtually all of the violence against non-muslims most certainly is.

If you are going to attribute the violence of open warfare in the Middle East to Islam, then you must attribute the military actions of the United States to Christianity/American culture. Because that's exactly what it is.


No, you don't know anything about Islam. You don't know anything about Muslim countries (and what countries did I 'list', anyway?). All you know is that you were given a gun and told to pew-pew until dem ragheads is dead. Of course you're going to see Muslims who want to kill the infidels - because that's specifically who you were sent in to fight.

:downs:


And, for the sake of humor:



NEXT on Wookie0684 TV: Wookie talks about how being Jewish makes you a good banker.

[le sigh]

Um. I would think a higher percentage of muslim-to-muslim violence would be in the name of religion than muslim-to-others violence. But whatever.

Every day in Iraq it seems like 30+ people die in bombings. Almost everyone who dies is muslim and almost always the bombers are muslim. But I don't know anything, right?

I'm confused and hoping someone can clear something up for me. Every time these debates get started, someone claims that Christians are murdering abortion-doctors. Last I checked, which was about a minute ago, only seven abortion people have been killed.

Is there a large scale conspiracy going on that is hiding this mass slaughter from the public? And if so, how are you guys privileged to know about it?

I could have asked you the same question since you said I didn't know anything about the countries I was talking about first.



No, that's not accurate at all. Except you do acknowledge the military was sent in to fight muslims who want to kill infidels. To expound on your statement we also see those muslims when they are sent out to kill the infidel. Again, why it is proper to know that it was a muslim who went on a rampage in Utah.



Why would Jews make good bankers? And what is wrong with stating his upbringing could have resulted in his mental derangement. Now that I think about it, of course his upbringing did. Whether specifically related to his religion or coming from a war torn country I don't pretend to know. Something in him was broken. It's valid to question what that was.

I'm going to expand on this, too.

What violence are you specifically talking about? 9/11? Because, surprise surprise, that isn't nearly as 'religious' as people think.

Al Qaeda likes to sing and dance to Islam but Bin Laden is/was about as much of a devout Muslim as I am. Regardless of what sect you follow, the Quran makes it perfectly clear that the only people who have the authority to declare a Jihad are either: 1.) the worldwide leader of Islam, or 2.) a leader of a Muslim country with at least one half (1/2) of the opponent country's strength.

Bin Laden is not: 1.) the worldwide leader of Islam. In fact, rightfully speaking, no Muslim country other than pre-invasion Afghanistan acknowledges him as anything more than a terrorist and a criminal, and 2.) He has rocks and sticks. Sometimes airplanes.

The very idea of the attack being committed in the name if Islam is absolutely laughable. There are lots of people who don't realize this - many of them Muslims, including Pakistanis and Saudi-Arabians who are basically lied to because they are illiterate and cannot read the Quran for themselves.

What Bin Laden wanted had nothing to do with Islam. Al Qaeda wants Americans to be afraid. They want Americans to learn to hate Muslims. And know what? Their plan is working because of people like you.

GG, terrorists win.

[le sigh retort]

Those bombings are more to demoralize and terrify the populace than religiously based. Of course the different sects do frequently attack each other. Really I can't expand too much on this area of the topic because it is very involved and would lead to a rather lengthy discussion.

You don't. You know about the fanatics you fought in Iraq (and presumably Afghanistan). You know the 'unofficial' stance of Akmadenijai'mnotevengoingtotrytospellthis.

Do you know the official stance of Abu Omar who lives in Dubai? Do you think he wants to kill you? How about that Pakistani doctor who's treating you for that nasty case of gonorrhea you picked up in Thailand?

It has nothing to do with religion. People will certainly talk about it, and in a lot of cases treat it like it does (specifically in the case of the sectarian violence in Iraq: the divisions between Sunni and Shi'a Islam are more like a geopolitical schism that has existed since Old Testament days).

Iran and Saudi-Arabia are making their little power plays and exploiting whatever racial/religious/political/economic divide they can think of so they end up with their piece of the pie. I know this, you know this, your CO knows this. Or maybe it's just a huge coincidence that Wahabbism is spreading through Iraq too?

And as for Iran? The antisemitic sentiment is more from Hitler (thanks again Europe for spreading your **** all over the world) than from anything else. When he talks about Islam it means about as much as when Bush talks about God. (Hint: That's a fancy way of saying 'nothing, but it appeals to people like Wookie06 so we'll keep saying it').

No, it's not proper because there it has almost no bearing on the matter. Judging by what you've said on here, I know American-born Muslims who are more well-adjusted than you are. By comparison a guy who grew up in the Balkans is going to be a little iffy no matter what religion he's in.

It's more important to know that "Hey, this guy grew up in a brutal dictatorship and/or warzone!" than it is to know that he starves himself for a week every fall.

I dunno, you're the prejudiced one. You tell me.

Jon, you make some very interesting points. Valid, too. Unfortunately you assume to much about me but that's okay. I would suggest that whatever bin laden truly believes in irrelevant because it's what their foot soldiers believe that is relevant. They believe they are acting in the name of their religion.

I hate when idiots give Christianity a bad name.

Central teaching of Christianity : Be nice to each other.
Central teaching of Islam : Be nice to each other.
Central teaching of Every Other Major Religion : Be nice to each other.

The terrorists aren't even Muslim extremists, because the position they have taken is not at one end of the other of the Islamic spectrum. It's perpendicular and non adjacent. It is so far beyond Islam that it could not be said to exist on the same hyper-dimensional plane. The same is true of any Christian who thinks it's a good idea to murder abortion doctors.

Are you crazy? Jews make awful bankers. They never loan out any money! No, Jews make good accountants. You can at least get your racist stereotypes right.

Okay, ***, you are starting to piss me off.

That quote above, you see that? You see how you point out that Muslim upbringing can produce mentally derranged and evil people? You see how that is discriminatory, and stereotypical? And I don't give a flying **** if "that's not what I meant", it's what you said, and don't try to weasel your way out of it.

Please, come to Salt Lake, have dinner at the home of one of the many Bosnian refugees that are from here. Find out that they are Muslim and go 'huh?' because they are as practicing Muslims as most "Easter and Christmas Catholics" are practicing Catholics. Go to high school with them. Make good friends with Muslims. ****ING JOIN THE MARINES NEXT TO A FEW MUSLIMS. Yes, why yes there ARE Muslims in the US Military. Muslims have died fighting in Iraq, FOR YOU. I thought you might have noticed that while you were in, especially in the Army. Please, do it for your own health, do it to remove yourself from the sick world of perverse prejudice you seem to be immersed in.

How odd. I was under the impression that it was sent to topple a regime that funded and supported terrorism (the Taliban) and to get rid of a dictator who murdered millions (Saddam). Heck, even the terrorists just use their twisted version of Islam as a recruitment tool. They don't actually want to kill us because they think God tells them too, but because they can't stand how invasive our culture is, and how easily it overpowers everyone else's. (For the record, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. About our culture, that is.)

I think you are mistaken. Christianity does allow for killing and it can be argued that killing an abortion doctor is defending the innocent from murder. Although, as has already been pointed out, the killing of abortion doctors is so rare that it really doesn't warrant much discussion here.

Islam, however, is very intolerant of other religions and killing infidels is in their holy book so it is not incongruous to their religion. Hell, there was recent flak about a converted Christian in Afghanistan being sentenced to death because he converted from islam.

I wouldn't try to weasel out of anything I said. Muslim upbringing can produce mentally deranged people. I did say that I did not know whether or not that was a factor in his escapade. I don't believe that a person is necessarily bad if they are a muslim. I just recognize that there are many who would cut you or me down in a heartbeat just for being a westerner.

You really don't see how that is bigoted do you? You say muslim upbringing can produce mentally derranged people. Let me produce a list of other uprbingings that produce mentally derragned people.

Mormon
Roman Catholic
Greek Orthodox
Christian Science
Soutern Baptist
Atheist
Hindi
Buddhist
Taoism (Isuwen heh, just kidding)
Shinto
Baha'i
Religions that use Peyote.

I cannot understand how you don't see your thinking as bigoted.

I don't believe that a person is necessarily bad if they are a muslim. I just recognize that there are many who would cut you or me down in a heartbeat just for being a westerner.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the upbringings you cite produce deranged people although deranged people can certainly come from those upbringings. Islam, however, is inherently violent so acknowledging that is not bigoted.

...except that there plenty of people who are Muslim and aren't deranged and violent - the majority of them, in fact, fall into this group.

And, yes, groups such as the KKK have roots in religion - or does the promotion of the white Protestant against Jews, Catholics, and gays not ring of religious origins?

And, to claim that Islam is "inherently" violent compared to, say, Judaism (which depicts the slaughtering of non-believers multiple times, as well as the advocation of capital punishment) is just plain silly.

WTF? Islam is not any more inherently violent than Judaism, and by extension, Christianity.

You never read the stories about killing all the men women and children in the land of Canaan (I think, it was the land of something) just because they weren't Hebrew?

You missed out. It was awesome.

Also, I seem to recall lots of derranged people coming from all backgrounds. Charles Manson? Yes, he was raised in one of those upbringings. I promise he was. Mark Hoffman? Mormon. There have been a large number of serial killers, serial rapists, ritual abusers of their children etc. etc. in many religions.

Right, but none of them except Islam produce derranged individuals.

Bull****.

The phrase 'not all muslims are terrorists but most terrorists are muslims' comes to mind.

A dissenting opinion:

'not all muslims are terrorists but when a muslim does something wrong that's what people call him'

Which is just a couplet, and not neccesarily a factual one at that.

good god wookie! your pretty much digging your own grave here. I'm normally the one in the position you in right now, but **** this surpasses even anything Ive dug myself into. ANY, i repeat ANY religious upbringing can produce deranged people, especially if the parents are religious zealots. while it can happen in Islam it is not restricted to Islam.

on a side note however, everyone really needs to stop slinging around the word "racist" like its a watter balloon. that is seriously pissing me off. is he wrong, most likely. is he an idiot, probably. should he have shut up a long time ago, yes. but, is he racist? NO! a bit of a bigot against Muslims, yes but racist no! last time i checked Muslim was not a race, its a follower of Islam.

Oh, the phrase is factual. When was the last time a Jew tried to blow himself up on a public transportation system?

heres a good joke. why do jews have big noses? BECAUSE AIR IS FREE. lolololROFLCOPTER

Let's just not go there. This thread will get closed like lightning if we start talking about the line between the state of Israel's military and terrorists, because it's a very fuzzy gray one.

London is not the middle east. Remember 7/7? Fanatical muslims try to destroy the dirty kuffar wherever he resides.