Damn Rob, I was just going to point it out! Oh well, I'll leave the post!

Yes, the way immigration is handled now in the US is plagued with major problems, and if there is going to be any progress in creating a welcoming immigration system there needs to be numerous comphensive reforms. Yes, this disjoined system needs a serious revamp before worrying about more raids and fences. But, for the time being, there is a system over here. There are laws over here. It's not another place, this is a different country. Along with the benefits of being here, there are rules.



That's not what I was saying. One would think illegal immigrates would avoid crimes in fear of being deporting or whatever.



Immigration is part of America's backbone. The reason why this country succeeds is not without immigration. But majority of these immigrants, who become great citizens, entered legally. Because immigration is such an important part of our society doesn't make the act of illegally immigrating any less illegal.



You make illegal immigrants as some sort of refugees.



What about all those people who went through the trouble of legally entering here? The time and money spent on working with the immigration system is a waste because all you need to stay here legally is to just be here in the country? It wouldn't be surprising that many of them were poor too but did their best to be legal citizens. I agree that there should be amnesty to certain cases, like illegal immigrants with children here or who started a business.



Mexico seems like an absolute nightmare to live in. You might want to keep those 2 cents.

<3 White Stripes

Demon_Nightmare: dictionary sucks

oh yeah, and I'm not sure what sf_goldg_01 is whining about with that whole "minimum wage isn't enough to live on" argument since it's no different in North America either. We make more money but we need a lot more to live.

The thing I love about the US is how it just magicly apeared with a good economy high standard of living society that alows for anyone to make thier life better. I mean its not like any one had to do anything to make things like they are now. Its not like mexico was founded befor the US. How can you expect other countries to improve thier situation after all the US just magicly apeared and is the most perfect place ever.

The US didn't just magicly appear.

I do believe you just missed sarcasm.

This thread contains so much stupid I didnt notice. Oops.

I think that might have more to do with how much stupid YOU contain

All in good fun GB

In Soviet Russia, stupid contains you!

I agree about the Medicare, it cost around 500$ to get 3 damn staples in my head when I passed out. Most of that money is for the illegal immigrants who can't afford medical care on their own!

Most of that money is because they can. :/

Try numerous malpractice lawsuits.

By fat indignant obnoxious people, who don't deserve it anyway.

Funny thing about mal-practice suits, in Mississippi the system is so corrupt, all the doctors are leaving because of BS settlements. Now everyone has to go the Nashville to get any kind of decent treatment.

That's quite possibly the most ignorant statement in this thread.

And that's saying something.

I know I was going to leave this thread, but I will now ask Jon'C to supply me with some facts.
What does the average person in America make in a month? What are the average costs in a month?

Lets compare them with the wage and costs of your average every day mexican.

When you get the facts, PM them.

The US is far too large and regionally divided to look at average income and cost of living and apply those numbers across the board. Needless to say, Jon'C's point is that coming to the US and working minimum wage jobs doesn't net you any more than staying in Mexico and working because the cost of living is far higher in the US.

You do know there are places in mexico where everyone isn't poor, right?

Isn't that everywhere? It seems all the poor Mexicans have left Mexico.

Depends where you are. I mean, saying "most" is a bit strong, but in certain areas, it's very hard to recoup costs induced by illegals. The money has to come from somewhere. I'm not sure if it directly effects the other patients in the hospital, but yeah, it's not unreasonable to say that the tax-paying community at large is paying for the healthcare of illegals. It's not like we can't either; you can't deny anyone emergency healthcare on a moral level.

Numerous hospitals have closed in my area (s. cal) due to the juggernaut illegal community. It's not just life or death healthcare either, it's *any* ER visit/prenatal care/etc (oh lord some of them are so frivolous and or just... mind numbing. I'll NEVER EVER forget when I triaged one family:

Me: So, what brings you here today?
Them: Our baby is crying and we don't know why.
Me (after a few other questions): when did he eat last
Them: Two days ago.
Me: Oh, could you repeat that?
Them: Two days ago.
Me: ...
Me: (Thinking my Spanish was bad... somewhere) Err... let me get some help.
Translator: Yep, two days. It was one bottle of juice.)

So no, it's not that ignorant to say that illegals can jack up the cost of healthcare. Hospitals *do* close down because getting money from the government to reimburse you for 90% of your patients is rather tricky. To stay afloat you have to do something.

I'm not saying that it doesn't effect health care costs to some degree, but saying that it's the largest factor is just stupid.

The corporate domination of the health care industry, coupled with ridiculous malpractice insurance costs, created by an American attitude of completely throwing away personal responsibility is what's killing American health care costs.

In complete agreement with the above.

Just wanted an excuse to tell that one story, though

Arbitrarily, yes. Crossing an imaginary line isn't a crime.

Well, yeah it is, technically. The question is whether it should be.

Murder is a crime. Theft is a crime. Sexual abuse is a crime. Walking from point A to point B I will never consider a crime, whatever the laws concerning the matter.

And that's why you're in jail.

its not very often i actually get "angry" about a topic. but i have to say, this one actually tips me over the edge every now and again.

to ANYONE who thinks that illegal immigration is not a problem, you need to come visit southern California. (by southern California i mean L.A. orange county and further south)

illegal immigration affects me on almost a daily basis. i work in a tire mounting shop that is next to a home depot. every day i drive by a group between 10 and 20 day laborers who are out on the corner. this in and of itself is not that HORRIBLE of a thing, aside from the cat calls whistles and rude gestures the give whenever my girlfriend is with me (she works for a shoe distribution center across from the shop where i work so sometimes we carpool) the schools where i live are in serious trouble because a good portion of the population of students either struggle with speaking English or cant speak it at all. do any of you know how it feels to have someone come up to you and ask "español?" and when you say "no sorry" the physically push you aside rolling their eyes and go over to the next guy because they wont or cant learn english? because i do.

hospital emergency rooms down here are a joke. they are over crowded to the point that your condition (if it is at all serious) will probably go from bad to worse in the time you have to wait, because so many immigrants don't have insurance so they cant go to a family doctor when someone in the family has a common ailment.

one of my friends i work with is a pretty health conscious guy and he likes to ride his bike to work whenever he can. he has been hit by an illegal immigrant driving a catering truck. of course the guy has no license and no no insurance, and hes worried about his status so he is going to take off before. authorities show up. fortunately he is mostly unharmed. this is not to say that illegal immigrants are the only people who don't have insurance or what ever, but it is WAY more prevalent down here.

as for the whole "comprehensive immigration reform" if you are going to be honest about it, it means AMNESTY!!!!!!!!!! "but wait!" you say "there are penalties and such for people affected by the reform." bull****! who's going to enforce the "rules" and "penalties" attached to this legislation? oh, wait, the same government who has done a piss-poor job this far? the same government who was supposed to build the fence in the "wheres the fence?" adds? the bill for the fence was passed into law! and the finances have been approved!

seriously, i don't care where people are from or what they look like, i only care about how they act, what they do, and how it affects me and the people i care about. you can call me racist if you really want, you can say "oh you just hate Mexicans" but you might have a bit of a hard time convincing my Mexican finance about that one.

We're all in jail, in a way. Only the very brightest find a way out.

However, this ad is also running.

Are you sure you know what side of the glass you are on?

Darth Alran, I'm confused. What exactly do you suggest we do?

Personally, I suggest he get a job that doesn't suck so he won't have as much to whine about.

Good thing the law isn't the same as what you consider. If you step onto my property, and I don't want you there, you've committed a crime, whether you consider it a crime or not.

I think we can all agree that Skateboarding Is Not A Crime.

but being a skater definitely should be.

We should enforce our laws. No amnesty, no compromise.

The border fence bill has been law for over 6 months now, and nothing at all has been done to attempt to implement it. We need an 800-mile steel and cement wall; nothing less will do.

Instead, the opposite of enforcement has happened. Have you guys heard about Ramos and Compien? They are two border patrol agents who were thrown to the wolves for doing their jobs. They wounded an illegal alien drug smuggler who was trying to get a van full of weed over the border. (they thought he was reaching for a weapon while they were in pursuit, so they shot him in the thigh) The drug smuggler was given immunity, while the border agents were given 15 years. That is NOT JUSTICE.


Besides, we don't need illegal aliens. The reason why citizens won't do these jobs is that employers are too cheap to pay a decent wage. If people really need cheap agricultural labor and can't get by without it, we have prisons filled to overcrowding. Why not send the prisoners out on work detail to do all of the agricultural jobs that illegal aliens currently do? Let the prisoners do backbreaking work in the sun, it makes no difference to me. The best part is that we might not have to pay the prisoners anything; doing the work should be considered part of their sentence.

Amnesty costs $5000 with the current plan.

The current plan was defeated last week. It's a dead issue unless the activists bring it up again next year. It was initiated last year with an amnesty bill that failed, and this year it was revived with less enthusiasm under the current bill that also failed, so perhaps next year it will just stay dead.

I heard on the news that the $5000 fine is only for the illegal aliens who want to stay in the US long-term. For those that want to work and go back to Mexico, there is no penalty. What kind of deterrent is that? Plus, like Alran said, how is it going to be enforced? Do they expect the illegals to just line up and pay the fine? They are going to dodge it every way they can.

I see some issues here.