Glad to see religion rears its ugly head on Massassi again. The ruthlessness with which people proceed to tear down the beliefs of others never ceases to astound me.

Well of course. People here don't believe in free will or free choice. It's their way or the highway. You are wrong and they are right. God forbid you actually choose to believe in religion (no pun intended). But if you do, har har you are stupid for believing in a "myth" and not believing what I believe, even though you have every right to and I shouldn't care one way or the other!

Seconded

So God knew that Adam would eat from the Tree and fall from grace. But God created the Tree. Why would he create the Tree knowing full well that Adam would fall? Surely he must have a plan to save humanity, but if the Tree didn't exist in the first place there would have been no cause for Salvation, being that Adam was perfect in mind, body and soul. Was the Tree a mistake?

I just have one question that pertains to this thead. Why is there a walrus?

"The Walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or with his tusks, the Hindu elephant god Lord Ganesha..."

Good question. My belief is that God has always been about choosing. What I mean is, God didn't want mankind to be puppets and love Him only because they were given no other choice. I believe that God would want man to choose to love Him instead of being forced. God put the tree there so man would have a choice. Adam chose the tree.

[Edit: In a sense, I would think you're not truly free, unless you have a choice.]

Hate to break this to you folks, but God left. Got sick and tired of all of humanity's bull**** he just went "**** this noise, I'm getting a beer. Goddamn humans always needing me to do EVERYTHING for them."

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability. Pagewizard will be that man. Better than he was before. Better… stronger… faster.

mmmm deism

So it's OK to believe the earth is flat? Sure, it's OK, but they shouldn't expect to not have their intelligence questioned.

I can't fault someone for believing in a vague higher power. But the specificity of faith that god wants x,y, z, and has done acts a,b, c instead of d, e, or the dreaded f, seems a bit much.

One can say that it is just faith, and a personal belief. However this isn't liking the color blue versus red; true religious belief is a lot deeper than just an opinion because it pervades everything. Birth, death, marriage, celebrations, ethics, the whole bit for many is tied down to 'simple faith'. It's worth debating, questioning, and needling because it plays a huge role in our world.

There's a difference between something that was popularly believed in until it was proven wrong and something that's currently popularly believed in, incredibly important to people, and that's changed lives that hasn't and probably will not ever be proven wrong.

A pretty big difference, actually.

Why do religious discussions even occur here? People just end up getting banned and the thread locked. It all ends up the same way. "Your phony god can't co-exist with my constantly disproven science theories!" and "Dinosaurs were planted by scientists to make our Baby Jesus look bad!"

Yes I'm overdoing my impersonation, I just wish that each sides arguments weren't just as silly causing the whole thread to run in circles.

If you really think that, you aren't reading the thread. These threads are actually pretty good until people like you come around and ***** about them instead of just letting the debate take place.

Yeah this thread was pretty good until people started complaining about it.

No one said they didn't have the right. And, in a more general sense, as Lord Kuat stated, religion permeates many facets of our society, including policy, so we should care.

I knew I shoulda used a frozen clown orbiting pluto, or maybe some distant galaxy.

How about I change it to any sort of fantastic belief. I apologize for using the flat earth thing, but really don't focus on that. I wish you'd respond to the other points.

Also, I don't really want to be an ***, sorry about sounding like one for some of the posts.

You still sound like an ***. You're comparing something that's important to people, that changes lives, that countries have made their common belief system, something that entire nations have been founded on, to a space clown.

These are the kinds of arguments I'm talking about. The ones that belittle someone's beliefs indirectly like that.

I'm not religious (That includes science. I just don't care about any of these belief systems) but I know enough about religion to know that it's important to a LOT of people, and that insulting it is insulting them. That may be what Massassi is about now, but can we keep the trolling down? Your intention may not be to insult them by tearing up their belief and ****ting on it, but it's not the intention when it comes to people's feelings.

Also, I did address your other points. You were right about it being important. That said, it being important gives it a bit more weight than a space clown orbiting Pluto

And why is that a problem?

...because it affects the rest of us that may not share those beliefs.

Because it makes people feel like they're having someone else's views thrust upon them (not that they don't or wouldn't do the exact same thing if the roles were reversed).

So what you're saying is if HITLER was saved by CHRISTIANITY God would have been a-okay with all the jew killing from beforehead?


WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, is that kiddy fiddlers, rapists, murderers, all they do is repent, clean slate?

Thats pretty dumb.

(PS, Godwinn's law)

Repentance is harder than I think you think it is.

[quote=Crowley, in Good Omens by Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman]"If you sit down and think about it sensibly, you come up with some very funny ideas. Like: why make people inquisitive, and then put some forbidden fruit where they can see it with a big neon finger flashing saying 'THIS IS IT!'?[/quote]

Yeah.

Yeah. It's not a matter of being an ******* all your life then saying sorry on your death bed.

I dunno.

He made it sound pretty damn easy.

I actually disagree with him about a bit of stuff. It's not like a Christian is incapable of sin, and salvation isn't always easy. Life is supposed to be challenging and it's supposed to be a learning experience.

(Disclaimer: I probably have some more unique views on Christianity)

I believe that's where some people's beliefs in something like Purgatory came along. Where "I'm sorry" on your deathbed isn't enough, and pseudo hell is created for you to make you have to earn your place in eternity.

what the **** is wrong with all of you? jep makes a funny post and you **** on it. good job. ****ers.

Yeah.

Here's my main issue:

God will condemn anybody who doesn't believe in Him, even though they have no good reason to. God has not spoken to them, touched them, or demonstrated himself to them in any way, yet they're still expected to believe that he's there because a book says he is. A book that has no doubt been edited and re-written by countless people throughout history; not to mention all the details and meanings that will have been lost in the numerous translations. And this is the same book that claims that two specimens of every single animal species on Earth can fit on one boat.

How is that fair?

NoESC: What's so funny about quoting the bible?

Well, that's what missionaries are for. It's every Christian's duty to make sure everyone else gets a chance to accept Christ.

My churches teaches that there is also a period after death that is for everyone to hear the message in case they didn't on earth. I'm not sure what other churches say about that. I'm also not sure what that implies about earthly missionary work, but I'd say that's not really an important issue.

What if another religion gets to them first? Are they destined to hell? There's more than one religion you know, each supported by the same "evidence".

People can change religion. It happens all the time. It's called conversion for a reason.

A fellow human telling you about God is no substitute for God Himself. I guess that period after death is a good safety net; I'd be more willing to believe in a god who is reasonable like that.

Edit:
Now that I think about it, that doesn't make much sense, because it defeats the message of "believe or you're damned". Who wouldn't believe when they suddenly find themselves in the afterlife?

What the ****, guys? This was a perfectly good thread until a couple people decided they were being picked on.

Dude, everyone was making fun of the Bible. Well, the Old Testament. But it's understandable that someone might feel insulted.

What makes your religion different from any of the others?

Then again, I can't fathom conversions apart from "well, following this dogma has gotten me nowhere, I'll try this other one". I can't imagine converting someone who wasn't down on their luck, which is how most conversions seem to happen (through various "charities" and missions to downtrodden countries).

Has anyone here converted? I'd like to hear the reason behind that.

How does the would-be convertee know which one to choose?