Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → Leviticus 20:13
123456
Leviticus 20:13
2007-08-07, 12:09 AM #121
This thread is chock full of complete ****ing idiots.
>>untie shoes
2007-08-07, 12:17 AM #122
People would have better luck training a rock to sing opera than getting anyone to budge in the slightest here.
Pissed Off?
2007-08-07, 12:20 AM #123
It's been a while since a religious thread, let us have our fun. Both sides acknowledge neither will move an inch, but it's still enjoyable in its own way.
2007-08-07, 12:25 AM #124
Originally posted by Antony:
This thread is chock full of complete ****ing idiots.


I concur.
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2007-08-07, 12:52 AM #125
It's a real simple concept of "I don't like the discussion going on in this thread, so I won't look at it." Tracer, you act like people contributing to this thread are somehow wasting your time. I suggest you stop reading if that's the case.
omnia mea mecum porto
2007-08-07, 12:55 AM #126
Okay. I will stop reading the thread.
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2007-08-07, 1:03 AM #127
Thank you. Sorry for wasting your time.
omnia mea mecum porto
2007-08-07, 1:20 AM #128
Bob is in a very tough time in his life; he's looking for something that's been missing, but he doesn't know what. One day, Bob meets a missionary on the street. They don't necessarily talk about religion or anything, but Bob gets a good feeling while he's talking to the missionary. He gets a good enough feeling that when the missionary asks if he can visit Bob at his home and teach him a bit about his Church, Bob says yes.

The missionary visits Bob and teaches him the basics. Bob feels that what the missionary is teaching is good. The missionary tells Bob about his personal feelings and testimony about his church, and Bob feels very strongly that what the missionary is saying is good and maybe true.

Now at this point, Bob can't be sure about the church. Can he really trust his feelings that much? Bob thinks that he can trust his feelings enough to do what the missionary asks him to do and read the scriptures and then pray about the truth contained therein, because: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him" (James 1:5)

Bob reads the scriptures and the missionary visits him periodically to see how he's doing and teach him more about the church. As Bob reads the scriptures, he sees sense in the teachings there and he continues to feel that verifying feeling, telling his heart that it's true. He also starts trying to live a bit more like a good member of that church would. He tries getting rid of bad habits and sins and sees some changes for good. Finally, when he feels that he can't go longer without really knowing, Bob prays with full humility to ask God if what he's learned is true. This is Bob learns through the spirit of God that God lives and whatever the church teaches is true.

Unfortunately for Bob, he isn't done. He has to repent, which means feeling full remorse for one's sins and giving up old practices, before he can be baptised.

Later in Bob's life he is a good member of his religion. His life has taken a turn for the better. He is happier and more content with his life. The problems that made him turn to God in the first place are gone, but every time Bob prays he still feels the Spirit that gave him testimony. (That's not to say Bob doesn't have problems, but he can now turn to God for help and strength in dealing with his problems)

Bob sometimes thinks about the nature of the feelings that prompted him to join his religion. He's heard people say that all feelings are just chemical reactions inside his brain. Bob thinks that that doesn't mean they aren't as powerful or real. Bob believes that God achieves much -maybe all- through natural means (like evolution). Just because someone can look at Bob's brain and tell him when he is feeling the Spirit doesn't mean that it isn't there. Bob has also heard people wonder if maybe the "spirit" is just a programmed response to certain ideas in humans. If it is, why is that programmed response there, and why does it appear to be in all humans? (Bob has seen many people from all over the world join his church) If God brought humans about through evolution, it would make sense for evolution to have given humans a way to feel God's glory. Bob isn't sure about that line of reasoning, but when it comes down to it, the decent track record of Occam's Razor doesn't seem to compare to the power of his spiritual experiences.

Bob has also wondered about other religions when he isn't so strong in his testimony of his own. How does he know that some other religion wouldn't make him feel the Spirit (or whatever the other religion might call it) even stronger? Bob knows he can't practically sample all of the religions in the world, so Bob reasons that since he knows that this religion is good, being a member in it would just be preparing him for conversion if a better religion came along. He also reasons that he should look for good things everywhere in life to decrease the probability that he misses this better religion (if it exists). He also realizes that if the better religion doesn't have some sort of after-death conversion period he's screwed anyway so he might as well continue with the fulfilling life he has now.

Sometimes when Bob is reading the scriptures he comes across something that doesn't seem to make sense or is in discord with other passages. This doesn't bother Bob too much, because he knows several things. Firstly, he knows that much of the early scripture was written for a different people. The story of creation seems to be a dumbed down version of what actually happened for people who couldn't have understood it. Thankfully, Bob can still draw useful principles from these old stories by trying to understand what the ancient people were meant to understand. Secondly, Bob knows that the scriptures are very old and have been handled by a lot of people, some of whom might have messed some things up. Bob knows through the Spirit that the scriptures are all inspired (in a religious sense) by God, so Bob he sometimes has to seek out the inspiration behind the writing and not literal fact.

Finally, Bob sees people all of the time ranting about how religion removes individuality and teaches only obedience to authority figures. Bob knows this isn't very true. Being Christian (yeah, Bob's Christian), Bob knows that part of what Christ was fighting in his teachings was the Pharisees and their pharasitical obedience to law. Christ was a rebel and rejected the authorities to teach what he knew to be correct. Bob knows that testimony must be individual and personal. It can be helped by community, but it must never come from earthly authority.


---
I think that's all I have on Bob right now. It doesn't answer many of the tricky little questions in this thread, it won't convert anyone (it probably won't even change anyone's mind; this is the internet, after all), and it certainly doesn't prove that some god exists. I just wanted to demonstrate what reasonable faith and religion looks like and hopefully explain what happens in a Christian conversion.

Phew. I've been saving that for a while. This probably isn't the right place. Heck, the internet isn't the right place.
[edit] I found this article while Google-spellchecking 'pharasitical'. I thought it was a nice short read.

Now who knows what religion I am?
Ban Jin!
Nobody really needs work when you have awesome. - xhuxus
2007-08-07, 1:24 AM #129
tl;dr
2007-08-07, 1:31 AM #130
np
Ban Jin!
Nobody really needs work when you have awesome. - xhuxus
2007-08-07, 1:49 AM #131
That was interesting Smock, definitely answered some questions I had.
2007-08-07, 2:14 AM #132
I like pants
D E A T H
2007-08-07, 2:14 AM #133
Thanks Smock, that was a good read.
"Well ain't that a merry jelly." - FastGamerr

"You can actually see the waves of me not caring in the air." - fishstickz
2007-08-07, 5:08 AM #134
I like what quoting a part of the bible can create here at massassi.

Thanks guys, I won me bet. :D
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-08-07, 5:33 AM #135
Originally posted by Avenger:
People would have better luck training a rock to sing opera than getting anyone to budge in the slightest here.


Exception: Tiberium_Empire's "Joncy, you shook my faith and changed my life!!!111" :eng101:
Cordially,
Lord Tiberius Grismath
1473 for '1337' posts.
2007-08-07, 6:05 AM #136
bioshock
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2007-08-07, 6:10 AM #137
Originally posted by landfish:
bioshock


Bioshock.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2007-08-07, 6:49 AM #138
Originally posted by landfish:
bioshock


BIOSHOCK
2007-08-07, 7:12 AM #139
Originally posted by Anovis:
BIOSHOCK


BIOSHOCK
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-08-07, 7:14 AM #140
I have it on pre-order. ^_^ *can't wait*
Cordially,
Lord Tiberius Grismath
1473 for '1337' posts.
2007-08-07, 7:21 AM #141
Originally posted by Lord_Grismath:
I have it on pre-order. ^_^ *can't wait*


BIOSHOCK?
2007-08-07, 7:22 AM #142
Originally posted by Anovis:

BIOSHOCK?



BIOSHOCK?
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-08-07, 7:50 AM #143
Wow.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2007-08-07, 8:03 AM #144
Originally posted by JediKirby:
Wow.


THREEAAADDDCRAPPPINGGGGGG!

Ok maybe not :P <3
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2007-08-07, 8:31 AM #145
Nice, Smock.


I tend to avoid these "discussions" altogether. :tfti:
Naked Feet are Happy Feet
:omgkroko:
2007-08-07, 8:35 AM #146
Originally posted by Acharjay:
NoESC: What's so funny about quoting the bible?


The guy that gives forum mansex posts a scripture about God putting people to death for mansex. If you don't see the humor in that you are a ****ing idiot.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2007-08-07, 9:22 AM #147
Originally posted by Jep:
I like what quoting a part of the bible can create here at massassi.

Thanks guys, I won me bet. :D
Nice. Proud to be a part of that.
Ban Jin!
Nobody really needs work when you have awesome. - xhuxus
2007-08-07, 9:58 AM #148
Originally posted by Lord_Grismath:
Exception: Tiberium_Empire's "Joncy, you shook my faith and changed my life!!!111" :eng101:

Oh man did this REALLY happen?
I had a blog. It sucked.
2007-08-07, 11:04 AM #149
Monotheism/Christianity is the most pervasive and destructive social disease humanity has ever had to deal with.

Has anyone here ever looked into the Jesus = Horus = Mithra = Dionysus argument?

Zeitgeist Movie - skip the first 5 minutes and watch until the end of Part 1. Makes a decent case for why you shouldn't just accept religion for the sake of religion and why Jesus as portrayed in the Bible seems to be a mythic archetype applied to someone who may or may not have even existed (as portrayed in the Bible, although I strongly believe that there never was a Jesus).

I wish religion were true because it would make things a lot easier to swallow but I refuse to believe in something for the sake of belief, especially when it's soooooo stupid.
"Those ****ing amateurs... You left your dog, you idiots!"
2007-08-07, 11:11 AM #150
Originally posted by Schming:
Has anyone here ever looked into the Jesus = Horus = Mithra = Dionysus argument?


Yes. :tfti:
2007-08-07, 11:41 AM #151
Originally posted by Schming:
Monotheism/Christianity is the most pervasive and destructive social disease humanity has ever had to deal with....
I wish religion were true because it would make things a lot easier to swallow but I refuse to believe in something for the sake of belief, especially when it's soooooo stupid.


Awesome. Keep it to yourself. This is exactly what I mean when I say that close to every atheist I know is bigotted and hypocritical.There are the few that let people believe what they want. Then the other 95% of them force the issue to a point where they become worse than the religious fanatics they love to tear down.

They act superior because of their "beliefs". Then, instead of believing in free choice or free will, they resort to mocking the beliefs of others (aka calling people stupid for believing it in a round about way, like above). Take the high road, be content with yourself, but don't insult other people for free choice. If religion helps them get through the day, who are we to complain? What works for some works for others. Can't any of you get that through your head?

(Note: This is for atheists I know, including the ones here. I am not generalizing atheists. I am categorizing 95% of the ones I am in familiar contact with. However, with the quite large # of them, it could be close enough to being an acceptable generalizing. If not, I guess they are "bad atheists", if that is possible).
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2007-08-07, 11:54 AM #152
Originally posted by mscbuck:

They act superior because of their "beliefs".


But.. you're doing the same thing right now?
2007-08-07, 11:57 AM #153
Yep. Everybody sucks.
Ban Jin!
Nobody really needs work when you have awesome. - xhuxus
2007-08-07, 11:58 AM #154
Originally posted by Rob:
But.. you're doing the same thing right now?


Oh, I am. I don't deny that. That's irrelevant.

What I point out is that atheists claim to be the logical, rational people above the normal "tripe" of religion, yet push and push and force their issue more than any religious person I know.

I'm not saying I'm not a hypocrite, I'm just saying atheists I know seem to be. The only thing making me a hypocrite as of right now is telling people to let other's believe what they want to believe. If that makes me a hypocrite, I'm alright with that. At least the outcome of my hypocrisy would be more free choice/less tearing down. But yes, the whole hypocrisy thing can go in just a revolving circle. But there are different points where things can be better than worse.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2007-08-07, 11:58 AM #155
Originally posted by Rob:
But.. you're doing the same thing right now?


He is. It is human nature to do so.
2007-08-07, 12:04 PM #156
Originally posted by Rob:
But.. you're doing the same thing right now?


Sometimes the calling of BS is needed. That's what he was doing.
www.dailyvault.com. - As Featured in Guitar Hero II!
2007-08-07, 12:05 PM #157
Originally posted by mscbuck:
Oh, I am. I don't deny that. That's irrelevant.

What I point out is that atheists claim to be the logical, rational people above the normal "tripe" of religion, yet push and push and force their issue more than any religious person I know.

I'm not saying I'm not a hypocrite, I'm just saying atheists I know seem to be. The only thing making me a hypocrite as of right now is telling people to let other's believe what they want to believe. If that makes me a hypocrite, I'm alright with that. At least the outcome of my hypocrisy would be more free choice/less tearing down. But yes, the whole hypocrisy thing can go in just a revolving circle. But there are different points where things can be better than worse.


I think the externality of "let everybody pick everything for his/her/it's self (besides this precept)" is that any sort of normative influence is portrayed as bad, which undermines the ability of any social unit (as we have conceived thus far) to function, especially in terms of education.

Teacher: "A=A."

Student: "I don't believe you. I believe A=-A"

Teacher: "Ok! I respect your right to have your own beliefs. I guess I'm useless, now. Bye."
Cordially,
Lord Tiberius Grismath
1473 for '1337' posts.
2007-08-07, 12:08 PM #158
I see your point, but I don't think the teacher's resposne would be that. Just because one person doesn't believe in you doesn't make you useless. If they choose not to follow A=A, so be it. But for the others who do believe A=A, the teacher still has a purpose.

(Besides, if there wasn't government mandated syllabus, then the kid could probably find a A=-A school :P. But that's just my rant on government run schools, hahah)
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2007-08-07, 12:10 PM #159
Originally posted by Lord_Grismath:
I think the externality of "let everybody pick everything for his/her/it's self (besides this precept)" is that any sort of normative influence is portrayed as bad, which undermines the ability of any social unit (as we have conceived thus far) to function, especially in terms of education.

Teacher: "A=A."

Student: "I don't believe you. I believe A=-A"

Teacher: "Ok! I respect your right to have your own beliefs. I guess I'm useless, now. Bye."


Thing is, that A has certain characteristics that should have been explained to the student. That's what a syllabus is, it lays out what exactly the criteria is. They may disagree with that A, but right there on that sheet of paper is a set of rules that explains this is what makes an "A" an "A."
www.dailyvault.com. - As Featured in Guitar Hero II!
2007-08-07, 12:14 PM #160
Originally posted by Nubs:
Sometimes the calling of BS is needed. That's what he was doing.


But he isn't calling BS.

He's making a crude generalization.
123456

↑ Up to the top!