My dad's making me go to church tonight even though he knows I'm atheist. This bugs me, because I'm going to have to deal with all the silly people who believe in it. Also the people who are going to ask why I've been gone for over a year. Blargh. I am reminded why I hate this holiday, its filled with religious crap that I can't seem to get away from.:argh:

Bah, humbug!

Yes. Exactly. This holiday is disgusting to me. Its a mixture of advertising and religious silliness.

Apparently I'm not respecting my parents beliefs if I don't go. But they don't seem to understand that they aren't respecting my (lack of)beliefs by forcing me to go. Standard christian view. "I'm right, your wrong and you offend me because you won't believe in my god"

Santa can't even say Ho ho ho! anymore...
Its derogatory to women.
**** sometimes i think it would've been nice if the reds just let the rockets fly.

Please donate all your gifts to charity.

Please stop making posts

Umm... stop whining and go to church? It sounds to me like you're just being negative. It's not going to kill you to spend a couple hours going to something religious. Where's your Christmas spirit?

Don't get me wrong.. I like christmas. I enjoy giving and receiving things. However, I don't enjoy going to church and participating in silly rituals. Nor do I like how everyone goes and buys crap that noone wants anyway just because its christmas and they have too...

@Axis. I bet you wouldn't go participate in a pagan or satanist festival. I don't want to go do something is completely against the way I choose to live my life.

All holidays are silly rituals, that is the point

Well I recommend you learn a little tolerance, because as an atheist this will be something that effects you your entire life. Whenever a friend or family member gets married, or dies ect. If you expect people to respect your beliefs, you have to respect theirs - no matter how silly they seem.

Sounds like mostly guilt to me.

Anyways I congratulate you on your restraint on not doing anything which would GUARANTEE you would be barred from that church for the rest of your natural life.

I agree with you... there's no point in going to church if you're already dead set against the religion anyways. You'll filter out anything you hear out of sheer stubbornness of being forced to go.

And the people asking you why you don't come to church more often are just concerned for your immortal soul, is all. Don't take it too personally.

I also should remind you that the entire holiday is BUILT on this religious crap as you put it. Even Santa Claus (the legend, not the appearance) has roots in Christianity (According to legend a Saint Nicholas climbed down the chimney of a particularly poor family and put food in their stockings, hung to dry).

Suck it up. People have to do **** they don't want to do all the time about. It's one day for a few hours and it's obviously a family event. Whining about it just makes you look self centered.

Hah-HAH!

It's an hour (probably less) Quit whining. Honestly, you sound worse than a fundamental Mennonite whining about evolution. If there's no God it's just a stupid ceremony. Whining about this minor inconvenience on the Internet is beyond stupid.



Santa is inspired by St. Nick, who was just a philanthropist. His current for actually was a Coca Cola advertisement which is sorta ironic because the holiday has become nothing but a month long commercialistic buy binge.

My family and I exchange gift lists - these are typically used when we don't really see anything that makes us gasp and say, "That's perfect for them!"



The current popular image, yes, is made by Coca-Cola, but the legend precedes the soda's existence.

Yeah, what he said! It's a cultural thing, too. The least you could do would be to show some filial respect and accompany your father to the ceremony.

Christmas was originally a pagan holiday.

What? You mean like, jump up and say I have been touched by His Noodley Appendage?

I don't want to draw attention to myself or anything. And all the churchs/christians I know wouldn't ban someone from church just cause they made a mistake once. Forgiveness is like the whole point of christianity. |:

I don't think some of you realize how awkward and rude church can be for an atheist. I personally enjoy going to church, but it's the people that really make it an upsetting time. If someone believes something without a doubt, their idea of "being nice" about it is hardly respectful. I agree that Greenboy is whining, but he makes an excellent point about other religious ceremonies. It'd be awkward for a Christian to go to a Buddhist gathering, and be asked by all of the other people why they don't come, and if they've accepted buddha yet. Granted, a Christian visiting a Buddhist temple would be given a great deal of respect, and would never be expected to take part in any of the customs. If Greenboy told the people at the church that he isn't a Christian and is simply attending because he's trying to be non confrontational, they'd have a conversion contest to see who could have him praying by the time he left first. While it's nothing to protest, and he should probably just suck it up and go, it's still a pretty unfair, disrespectful, and ultimately double standard expectation that a person has to ignore their faith for a night while people scrutinize and make expectations out of you.

You sound like me when I was 12. All you have to do is sit on a bench for one, maybe two hours, and occasionally pretend to sing. Be glad you didn't go to a Catholic high school like I did. You probably wouldn't have survived.

Have you ever considered that maybe, like yourself, all of the Christians you know are just hypersensitive overzealous douchebags? Maybe if you respected the beliefs of others, others would respect yours.

I've been trying to tell him that for quite some time.

Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem if the christians I'm dealing with were nice normal people. But no, theyve gotta bother about trying to see who can save my soul. Which, technically, is already saved and if jesus is real I'll go to heaven even though I no longer believe heaven exists.



I'll probably end up going because otherwise my parents will get be all *****y for the rest of the week.

You're probably making it seem a lot worse than it really will be. Just hang low and try to fit in.

I'm not going. My mom got home and my parents started a huge fight over every little thing. The type of wrapping paper.. The location of olives. I'm tired of it and staying home.

This year is the worst christmas yet, constant fighting.

Why should he have to suck it up? He is an atheist he shouldn't have to go to a theist event like church.

I suggest you don't go if they change their minds again and make you, it isn't their choice: it's yours.

There's something hilarious about an atheist getting all worked up about the relative quality of his Christmas.

and what's that?

I was just sypathizing. I personally love church, and I try to be respectful when I go. I'm hardly hypersensitive about religion. Sometimes it's annoying when you go to church and people evangelize you, and I was just agreeing with that sentiment. And you'd be pretty hard pressed to disagree that Buddhists are better at accepting different believes than Christians.

I usually mock people in those situations. It's nice because it's really easy to establish a holier than thou attitude, and they can't really do anything because they know they're being petty pricks.

I have a punitive attitude toward those types of social situations.

Go look up irony in the dictionary and get back to us.

My family doesn't go to church all year, but always goes on Christmas and Easter. I find that hard to understand.

Anyway, even though I'm agnostic, to keep the peace I just suck it up and go twice a year.

... with more questions since that isn't actual irony at all.

Yeah. Actually, the St.Nicholas holiday tradition stems from the Netherlands, where most people celebrate 'Sinterklaas' (as he is commonly called) on the 5th of december. I think the tradition is at least a couple of hundred years old. It involves a bishop-like old man with a big white beard who brings gifts to all the children who have been nice this year. He has help from a lot of (chimney-black) helpers whom we call 'Zwarte Pieten' ('Black Petes'). He rides over the roof of the house on his white horse. Small kids place carrots and water near the chimney for the horse, and also an empty shoe, in which they hope to find a gift the next day. The 'Sinterklaas' tradition is thought to be brought to America by Dutch settlers, and eventually evolved into the whole 'Santa Claus' thing.

Sinterklaas is still a very popular holiday and some years it's even 'bigger' than Christmas (yes, that is even a news item over here haha).

As a result, a lot of Dutch people tend to think of Santa Claus as 'the rip-off', and Christmas here is really more of a christian holiday, and Sinterklaas tends to focus more on wish lists and gifts.

Funny fact, a lot of people think Sinterklaas is a racist thing because he has black helpers. It's a point of mild controversy, just like the ho-ho-ho thing.

Greenboy - sorry it's a big pile of suck.

Ever read I Sold My Soul On Ebay by the atheist Hemant Mehta? He attended lots of churches and didn't become a Christian or anything of the sort. He has an interesting take on things and it was a good read.

Kirby must be drinking again.

No, it really is if you actually think about it.

http://www.aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/christmas.html
[quote=Ayn Rand]
The charming aspect of Christmas is the fact that it expresses good will in a cheerful, happy, benevolent, non-sacrificial way. One says: "Merry Christmas"—not "Weep and Repent." And the good will is expressed in a material, earthly form—by giving presents to one's friends, or by sending them cards in token of remembrance …

The best aspect of Christmas is the aspect usually decried by the mystics: the fact that Christmas has been commercialized. The gift-buying … stimulates an enormous outpouring of ingenuity in the creation of products devoted to a single purpose: to give men pleasure. And the street decorations put up by department stores and other institutions—the Christmas trees, the winking lights, the glittering colors—provide the city with a spectacular display, which only "commercial greed" could afford to give us. One would have to be terribly depressed to resist the wonderful gaiety of that spectacle.
[/quote]

A little holiday cheer for you secular, capitalists out there.

You can't lump all Christians together like that. Tolerance will vary between different denominations, and further between different congregations. I used to very much believe in Christ as the son of God and our saviour. I've been part of a few different services, and most have no beefs with other faiths. They choose to live by the teachings of Jesus, but as long as others at least support the idea of "love thy neighbour", everything's cool. I suspect this is more common among those who follow the general messages of Christ's parables, rather than taking the bible to be a rigid and specific rule book.

I know Buddhists are very accepting of other faiths, and I very much respect them for that. But some Christians are extremely easy-going as well, won't push anything on you, and will make you feel quite welcome.

I'm kind of agree with Greenboy on this one. Ever since I remember, I've felt terribly uncomfortable in churches...and I had to attend Catholic school from 1st to 6th grade. I never felt any connection with God, so as soon as I learned the definition of "atheist", I knew that was what I would be considered. With all that said...my parents made me go to church for Easter, Christmas Eve, and whenever my grandparents were in town. Also, my school made us attend church every Wednesday. The town I grew up in was very overtly Catholic as well...so all of this didn't make me feel any more comfortable. Especially at Christmas mass because the entire town packed into this tiny church and you had to literally be there an hour or two before to find a seat. Anyways, after a horrible experience at a Christmas mass, I was no longer required to attend any mass, much to my parents bickering over the matter.

Honestly, I feel like I'm intruding when I'm in church. I don't feel like I belong there...so I don't go. I don't believe someone should be forced into attending. Like someone else said, a Christian may be uncomfortable (and whiny) about attending a Buddhist event, so why should an atheist be any less uncomfortable (and whiny) about attending a Christian or a Catholic event?
[pretend all that makes sense.]