Ahem.

Look down.

I was going to make an example with his robotic mom, but it's possible he was adopted. So I just went by way of trump card.

Ion Cannons on the Borg to disable them

Death Stars contain literally millions of soulless clones who are not afraid to die or kill each other to defeat the enemy. Even if they were defeated, and the Death Star were assimilated, hyperspace travel blocks communications which means that as soon as the Death Star jumped into hyperspace it would become a solitary collective of like-minded and fiercely loyal Imperials.

Besides, Imperials wouldn't be afraid to flood a deck or eighty with flesh-dissolving chemicals in order to stop an invasion, which is something else the Borg seem to have a difficult time adapting to (As in First Contact).

Later books in the EU show us that only the first batches of stormtroopers were clones. The later ones are ordinary soldiers with lives and history and such. They might behave more like humans.

Some troopers however are almost completely brainwashed.
A couple gave their lives to repair the reactor on the prototype death star.
They died horriblely and completely without concern for their safety.

True the Empire would do that (Though the borg would quickly adapt to the Energy based weapons quickly) Would the Borgs 1337 hacking skills not have the death star computer system over taken pretty quick?.

And they could potentially fit the death star with conventional Warp Drive.

No they wouldn't. We've already discussed how they wouldn't. Star Trek weapons - phasers, disruptors - function by initiating some kind of destructive reaction within the materials they come into contact with. It is not a simple transfer of energy. The fact that changing the "frequency" of the phaser beam represents a significant enough change in the weapon's technology that the Borg adaptive shielding can no longer defend against it is indicative of this fact.

Blasters are particle weapons. When someone gets shot with it they have a hole burned through them. Stormtrooper rifles fire projectiles made of the same stuff that a solar flare is made of - and the Borg have not adapted to solar flares, even though they had millions of years to figure out a way to do it.

Considering the fact that Borg and intruders never managed to take over the Federation network/LCARS in spite of the fact that it's heavily networked, requries absolutely zero user authentication and that's while they're working with a large number of captured starships, no, I would guess not.

Sure, and if the Iranians capture a Nimitz-class supercarrier they could potentially fit it with a speedboat motor.

Actually, now that you mention it, IG-88 might have time during all of this to successfully take control of the Death Star himself, throwing in yet another wild card. That depends on exactly when all of this is happening, though.

Woah woah woah... what the hell? Haven't you seen ANY episode of Star Trek where a Borg unit is separated from the collective? They don't suddenly become independent and reverse back to the way they were! At best, they become lost and confused -- even gaining the individuality of ONE drone takes considerable effort, and not without a psychological impact left behind. Usually, they make every effort to re-assimilate if they've been disconnected. They would NOT immediately become who they used to be. This is, of course, assuming that communications in Star Wars and Star Trek work the same way.



Even if they wouldn't be afraid, since when was the Death Star equipped with such stuff? It wasn't exactly equipped on the Enterprise -- some warp core equipment was broke to do that.

(Might reply to more later.)

I'm pretty sure Borg have successful infiltrated Starfleet computer systems, just not remotely. In their first encounter with the Borg, a drone easily gained access and aquired a large amount of data. Similarily in First Contact, the Borg definately would have gotten full access to the ship computer if Data didn't encrypt/lockdown critical systems.

However I would have to call this catagory a draw, since in Star Wars- R2D2 is a l33t h4x0r, gaining access to computer systems wherever he goes.

It depends on which generation of Star Wars.

Original Three > Star Trek

New Thee < Star Trek

Guaranteed.

You forget the Borg mentality. They'll adapt to something if it needs to be adapted. If Borg cubes are running into solar flares and prominances then the Borg will probably adapt.

Although it should be pointed out that you are probably referring to the solar flare caused by Dr. Crusher's command in Descent pt. II. Those Borg are...different. I think they lost they're adaptive abilities when Lore started to **** around with them.

Borg Personal Shields can adapt simply to block the fire. Not sure if it would last long though.

Death Star vs the Edo Guardian though?

Considering the fact that Starfleet computer systems don't require identification for anything less than initiating a self-destruct, I don't think it qualifies as infiltration. B4 was able to access communications protocols and fleet deployments and this information was described as non-classified. What.

Uh, no? You're talking about Borg who were born into the collective, like Hugh. Picard reasserted himself almost immediately.

That's not the point, though. Do you understand exactly what a collective consciousness would be? What it is? If a Death Star were assimilated it would consist of 99% assimilated Imperial stormtroopers. When the connection was cut off the Death Star would be one mind and one voice allied with the Empire. The Borg children on Voyager created a pretty stupid and childish collective when they were cut off. Why wouldn't the Imperials be free to do their own thing?

Sorta like how they can adapt simply to block a mekleth, right? How about how they can adapt simply to holographic bullets? (Would that be considered an energy weapon too?)

Star Wars has personal energy shields too. If we go by the novels they can stand up to around 3 hits with a commodity blaster pistol, *maybe* 1 hit from an Imperial carbine. Also, Star Wars personal shields protect against simple, basic things like metal blades and projectiles. Since Star Wars is more advanced than the Borg in every way it would be overly generous to assume the Borg personal shields are capable of much more than that.

How would borg cutting beams and graviton torpedoes work against star wars shields?.

star wars would win because of how ****ing cool those red armour guys look.

also adama + flashlight would win all.

I'm pretty sure that I've read about Star Trek's computer panels being able to read biometric data from a person while they are pressing buttons. They can be secured, but a starship's operations would be hampered if the entire crew had to log in and log out of every console they use. That isn't to say that the system couldn't be hacked, but it isn't going to be as completely vulnerable as some would have you believe.

There's an episode of TNG where a kid blames himself for hitting a button on the terminal that caused the ship he was on to do something bad, and Picard explains to the kid that identification is required. I won't argue with you that you're wrong, only that this is but one example of how conflicting "facts" are shown in both Star Wars and Star Trek. Tackling a nerd debate like this can't be sensibly done unless examined as stories and not so... literally.



Picard is an exception because he's 1) a main cast character, thus highly unlikely to not return to a status-quo condition by the end of an episode, and 2) not assimilated like the rest -- in First Contact, they made it a point that it was not enough that he was simply assimilated, but was done so WILLINGLY to act as some special bridge between the Borg and humanity (Star Trek has a fixation on the greatness of humanity ). Besides that, though, it still affected him greatly -- in "Family" for example, Patrick Stewart does a good acting job when he breaks down and talks about how the Borg violated his humanity, and in First Contact, it's suggested that he still has some mental "connection" with them.

The Borg do not do well in any case when being severed from the collective -- Crusher talks about how dangerous it was to separate Picard from the Collective in "The Best of Both Worlds." Yes, SOME are able to come back, but usually (like Picard) their assimilation time is very short, and even with them it takes a GREAT amount of effort to bring them back -- by people who AREN'T assimilated. In First Contact, Picard tells them to kill those who have been assimilated. If Imperials were assimilated, who would help them back? You said yourself that Imperials would have no problem wiping each other out -- they wouldn't take the time to help someone regain their "humanity." The Empire would rather cut off its own arm than try and heal it (which would be a lot more difficult than you make it out to be).



Because when cut off from the Emperor, the Imperials were REAL organized... Episodes, like in the Enterprise episode with the Borg, make it very clear that the Borg make attempts to reconnect themselves with the collective. And stop making the Empire out to be this perfect military -- Kyle Katarn was Imperial at one point. Even if you're assuming the clones, they seem to have no problem switching their allegiance to whomever is "controlling" them. Whatever the case, the Imperials would not just magically regain their Imperial allegiance and such through a temporary disconnect from the Collective.



Yes, and in Jedi Knight, Kyle can run over 30 miles per hour without the Force, he picks up a lightsaber and that makes him a Jedi Knight, but that's OK, because EU is canon! The Empire is so great, and yet Ewoks can take down the best soldiers the Emperor has?

...ugh, I should have just stopped after my first post.

All nerds lose for failure to talk to womenz and reproduce.

The child thought he had accidentally activated a bridge control system. I'm specifically talking about information access.

Seven of Nine, who asserted her independence almost immediately. The Borg children, who built their own collective when left to their own devices. The Borg colony Chakotay found, who wanted to re-establish their own collective outside of the borg. Unimatrix zero. Hugh. Hugh's scout ship. The Queen Protocol.

The series has showed repeatedly, over and over and over, that Borg who are freed from the collective choose of their own volition whether they want to return to the full collective or not. I don't understand why you are having such a hard time understanding this. Most of the Borg must want to be Borg by the very definition of a collective consciousness.

I was attempting to strike a comparison between the blaster's interaction with a known technology to an unknown but similar technology. Because, for some retarded reason, I am thinking about this. You aren't.

I need to reply to this on its own



In terms you are intimately familiar with, that's what we call a circumstance penalty.

Small, fast-moving camouflaged intelligent creatures swarming in a dense forest. All of them strong enough to lift rocks that weigh about as much as they do.

And the Empire, whose forces are trained and outfitted for... urban combat. Because the Empire wants to hold population centers. If it's a dense forest there is no value to capturing it, which means they want to bombard the surface from orbit (General Veers brings it up in ESB, which indicates to me that it is probably always the Empire's Plan A).

If you laugh at the fact that Stormtroopers fall down when they get a rock dropped on them it just means you've never read the safety label on the inside of your hard hat.

If only someone would create a low budget spoof and settle this the same way Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning settled Star Trek vs Babylon 5.

If by settled you mean created even more debate then yeah

hmm star wars vs star trek? tough call what kind of battle are we talking about here? In a space battle I'd have to give it to star trek, they seem to have better weapon and defense systems.. if it were on the ground I'd give it to star wars.

Not to mention that they were winning before Chewie went GTA on a walker...

It would be GT-AT ST !!!!

HA HA HA..... Get it?

Vietnam. Afghanistan in the 80s. Iraq. Suvla. Etc. etc. etc.

The answer is clear to the question though. Only one universe has a Harrison Ford based persona in it.

Wait- if the Borg are just organic beings with bits of computers and machinery tacked on, how are they able to "adapt" to weapons? I mean, if they were robots made entirely for nanites I could maybe see it, but to say that a biological life form can simply adapt to huge amounts of kinetic energy seems a stretch, even after suspending belief for the sake of the story. It seems like a poorly though out gimmick, especially for a saga as meticulously canonized as Star Trek.

They can't. They've showed on-screen how they can't. In another Voyager episode they explained how they assimilated their adaptive shielding from a specific culture and basically haven't made any improvements to it since. It doesn't stop projectiles, it doesn't stop blades, it basically only adapts to specific kinds of energy weapons.

But people keep jumping on it like the Borg can adapt to the heat death of the universe so long as the Enterprise-D isn't there to stop them.

Who's to say Indiana Jones doesn't exist in the Star Trek universe? He's immortal, you know.

I am curious as to see how the Borg will react to a lightsaber.

Also who isn't to say that the technology required for lightsabers doesn't exist in 23-24th century Milky Way.

Here's what all of the Star Trek people do to each other, just imagine what they could do to the Star Wars folks:


[/fanboy]

I think Star Trek would be a lot stronger in space, but they do have nasty things for ground combat as well. There was at least one episode of DS9 where they were talking about anti-personnel mines that were hidden in subspace. The mines were undetectable until you tripped it and became dead.

What good is a subspace anti-personnel mine if the planet has been glassed?

Not much, but in that case the Empire's elite ground forces are of no use either.

I found that clip mostly unimpressive save for the beginning (Supernova?) and an exceptionally poor showing considering I saw ships with insta-hit weapons missing not all that fast targets at literally point blank range.

Except when taking things of value in which case placing such weapons in a city would be astronomically outside the Federation's touted morals...

I don't see where the argument that Star Trek is "Superior" in Space is coming from...its obviously not. All engagements are short range while Star Wars is Medium to short (and more recently with long range turbolasers, LONNNNGGGG).

I don't see the Enterprise glassing a planet with just its standard armament. Also targeting computers are obviously VERY bad because they can't hit slow moving ships at point blank while the computers on an X-Wing can throw a torpedo down a shaft a few meters wide.

This is just for everyone's education, a piece of a tree branch, two inches in diameter, six inches long falling from the top of a tree is enough to split a hard hard and knock the wearer unconscious. Without a hard hat, it's more than likely to be lethal.

Rock are a lot heavier.