Please get a clue before you berate everybody, and try your best (not that you do particularly well) to belittle them and their choices.

Oh, and in response, have you TRIED every other religion, to make the comparison - or are you just basing that on the fact that you were brought up to believe taht you are right, and all non-christians are wrong?

Thought so.

[play nice]

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited August 19, 2004).]

No martyn, let him speak. I rather enjoy watching him destroy his credibility with every post he makes regarding religion, politics, or the environement. It's funny, really.

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Ah go on then - only if you check out the thread called "hah, cool" Flex,

Laters

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Saying "Christianity > All" like that is like saying "Being Jewish sucks, being Pagan sucks, being Muslim sucks and so on..." to everyone. It is complete ignorance and arrogance. Religion is attached to people's lives and shapes their lifestyles. People take religion seriously and pactice it for personal reasons. If you are attached to a religion, it is alright. If you feel that you have deep beliefs in a God, continue it personally. But saying your religion is superior and condeming other beliefs is offensive and somewhat malicious to people. No one wants to be told their way of life and what they peacefully practice is wrong.

These feelings of religious "supremacy" have been responsible in many violent and abusive acts....

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

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The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest info (I don't know why I have this still in my sig)

[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited August 19, 2004).]

So, far I what I have seen from other religions is unimpressive. Also, unlike you, I actually believe that my religion is the truth. I believe you are wrong. You say that you look at every thing objectively, yet you tell me to shut up because you think I’m wrong. How do you know that I'm not right? When it comes down to it you believe in something just as much as I do. You think I'm wrong just as much as I do. But I don't tell you to shut up when I think your wrong.

I think the difference between you and me is you have a philosophy that is not a part of your religion. My religion is my philosophy. My religion is to me what your philosophy is to you. If religion is just a form of fulfillment, you may as well for get the whole thing. But that is a function of your philosophy, which is what we are really arguing here.

Unimpressive? What exactly was so impressive about Christianity? The Crusades?

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"I'd rather be hated for who I am rather than loved for who I pretend to be." -Janis Joplin

I think my mother had the right idea when she said that christian extremists are just as bad as muslim extremists. I am sorry but it is true. Both of them don't care what others think or if they hurt them saying it.

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Bill What if these anti-violent-video game people were all killed by a fat italian plumber in a red hat jumping on them repeatedly. Wouldn't that be poetic justice in its purist form?
Jon`C:Irony is spelling 'quality' poorly.
Spork:Well I think 'Irony is spelling grammar poorly'
Snail racing: (500 posts per line)--@%

Religion is not the same as philosophy.

Religion is the organised worship of one or more deities.

This is why Buddhism is not a religion, because it is not a worship of a diety.

I'm not a Catholic, nor do I consider the Catholic doctrine to be true. I share the same general beliefs as the reformers, which the Catholics torched and slaughtered during the middle ages. True Islam is conversion by the sword. True Christianity is conversion through persuasion. He who is convinced by force is not convinced at all. A lot of you people are getting mad at me for disagreeing with other things. But you disagree with me!

Errr...I guess I'm atheist. I gave up on Catholicism years ago strictly because everyone seemed so closed minded about everything. I stick by one rule: Be excellent to everyone. If I burn in hell for it, so be it, I'll burn knowing that I did some good in this world.

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Amen to that, sister.



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"I'd rather be hated for who I am rather than loved for who I pretend to be." -Janis Joplin

While it would be nice (read: it won't happen) if this thread did not devolve into a flame war, Obi_Kwiet has every right in the world to claim that his religion is superior regardless of whether you agree. You can call him on it, but don't tell him to shut up.

Also, Flexor, you are a classic example of someone who is perfectly open-minded until confronted with an opinion you don't like. If you were really what you claim, you'd ask him why rather than declaring he has no credibility.

Echoman, it isn't Obi_Kwiet's fault that religious nutjobs have used whatever religious text to justify violence. Equivocating between "My religion is superior" and "My religion is superior, therefore I have the right to kill you" is ridiculous.

I'm a lower-case atheist. I don't believe in God for roughly the same reason Christians don't believe rocks are alive. Why should I?*

*this is a rhetorical question. it does not require an answer, so don't.

[@Obi]

The point in what you believe in and what you find "is right or wrong" isn't the problem here. You can keep your "philosophy" or beliefs personal. But, instead of simply saying what religion you practice, you tried to establish "religious supremacy" by claiming that what you believe is right to everyone here. That can be offensive. Many people have great devotion to their beliefs and have lifestyles that revolve around religion. Don't offend people.


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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

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The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest info (I don't know why I have this still in my sig)

[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited August 19, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited August 19, 2004).]

This is not correct; religion need not involve a deity. A religion is a way of life informed by a set of principles or idea. Buddhism most definitely qualifies.



Goddamn people, don't talk about things you know nothing about. To convert to Islam you simply declare "There is no God but God and Muhammad is his Prophet" in the presence of witnesses. Christianity and Islam both have been spread by force, yet most Christians and Muslims today find no injunction in their holy texts to take up arms against anyone.

Atheist.

I believe in some concepts posed by religion but I don't believe in any higher being.

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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side

I haven't told him to shut up. I just want to show that what he said and how he stated it could be offensive to someone.



Yes. There is difference between "My religion is superior" and "My religion is superior, therefore I have the right to kill you." But there is a concept that is seen in both. One is simply offensive to the public while the other is extreme (and exaggerated too much :/ ).


[edit: tags]
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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

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The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest (too lazy to change)

[This message has been edited by Echoman (edited August 19, 2004).]

Personally, I don't know what "religion" I am. I don't so much believe in Christianity, because it relies a little to heavily on hindsight. I mean they tend to change the rules to better suit our current society. I don't like that. It used to be we had 10 rules, and if you broke one, after death, you were gonna burn in hell forever. Now I talk to all kinds of Christians that say they have basically done away with the commandments. Why? Moses supposedly climbed the mountain and God gave him those commandments, right? So who climbed the mountain and found out that the commandments don't count anymore? No we did away with the commandments because they weren't really conveniant for our lifestyle. I talked to a guy I know about this. He goes to a Church of Christ and he told me a few really interesting things.

He said, number one, there is now only one commandment. And that commandment is that you should love everyone. So basically what they've done is dissolved the commandments and replaced it with the golden rule, which is fine, really, because it should work well enough. I mean if you treat people right, you oughtta be straight with the house of jesus in my opinion. Ok, but where it really starts to fall apart is when he started telling me some other things. First he told me that going by the rules of their church, if you dance, you're going to burn in hell forever. I don't know about you, but dancing doesn't seem to be a very bad thing to me. I understand that there are some forms of dancing that you wouldn't be able to televise on network television, but I have been told by this guy that if I danced at my high school prom, I would go to hell. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Ok, now for the third thing. The whole non-evolution thing. Otherwise known as creationism. I asked him how, if there has never been evolution, did Noah go around and gather up billions and billions of animals. Two each. And how did he fit them all on the boat. He told me there were not that many. He said back then there were only a few hundred. And we have more now because of "cross breeding." Now correct me if I'm wrong, but "cross breeding" is a form of evolution is it not? I understand that man did not evolve from apes by the ape a shagging ape b when there was a full moon or something, but I think mankind did evolve from apes. It's just a little hard to believe that we have never evolved at all, and everything else has. Already, in only a few hundred years, we have evolved mentally. We now have the capacity for more knowledge and critical thinking than hundreds of years ago. So why is it so insane to the Christians to think that we evolved from apes?

Where I do stand, in fact, is close to atheism, but not spot on. I most certainly think there is some kind of higher power out there. I just seems a little too out of the ordinary to think all of this stuff happened by accident. I think there's someone in control, but I don't know who. I don't so much believe in "worshiping" any invisible man in the sky in particular, but I think there's one out there in control. I don't know. And I'm not entirely against any religion in particular. Most of them follow the same rules. Mainly, they teach you lessons that are important. But I think they should be taken philosophically, and not literally. People seem way too caught up in believing an unbelievable story, that seems to me, to have been written to just keep people in line. There are alot of good ideas in Christianity, but I just can't stand the thought of really buying some of the hokey nonsense they tend to preach.

Basically, I agree with many of the teachings in the Bible, but I just don't like the people affiliated with it. I think the philosophical side has alot of good ideas, but the story is just not for me.

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Change is never a choice. You change, and you are who you have become. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

There can be only one truth. A truth tailord to some one's needs is not a truth, but a lie. We have a life to live and denial will not make it any diffrent.

I'd have to say agnostic. There's probably something out there, but I'll find out when I get there, whatever it is.

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

So you think the entire non-christian world is going to burn in hell? Even the Christians have modified the original gospel to fit their needs.

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Change is never a choice. You change, and you are who you have become. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

I think that many people who call them selves christians arn't. I beive that if you don't belive in salvation in thoruhg faith alone you're not a christian.

Salvation through faith alone? So by that rationale if you kill hundreds of people you'll be just fine in the afterlife as long as you believe in God and Jesus and you think they'll take care of you in the afterlife?

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Change is never a choice. You change, and you are who you have become. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

Atheist. Deal.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1, 2 & 3 | Gonk WoW Petition <- SIGN!
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Roman Catholic.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

If God saves you, you could, but wouldn't do that, because God works in you if you are saved. If you had done that after you said you had become saved, that would mean that God hadn't saved you. If you had done that before God had saved you you would still be saved. Nothing is out side of God's grace.

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited August 19, 2004).]

I don't believe it possible at all for an entirely perfect being, the pure Truth, Love, Itself, to grant It's grace to one, while withholding it from another, but that's me.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

WHAT! You're kidding, right? I mean seriously... If I killed 50 people... and when I'm in prison I "find jesus" I'll be just fine? You can't be serious. I mean I realize the Catholics have confession and all that, but what happens if you go into a Catholic church and confess murder? Does the preist say "Well do ten million Hail Mary's and you'll be fine." Or does he say "Well, my son, you better bathe in flame retardant."

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Change is never a choice. You change, and you are who you have become. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

There are some sects that worship Buddha as a god. Which is exactly what he didn't want.

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Debating politics on the internet is about as useful and productive as shoving a broomstick up your *** .

I was raised a Roman Catholic and, as you might expect, I am now atheist.

Part of it comes from the same reason I hate broccli and green beans, You have something constantly shoved down your throat, you're not gonna like it (i.e. twelve years of Catholic schooling).

The other part of it comes from actually listening to everything that was taught to me having religious education classes everyday and, unlike my classmates, analysing it. It's all very contradictory, there are two different Gods in the bible (in terms of behavior) vengful God of the old testement, and the loving God of the new testement, and the actions of the the "Holy Church" herself have been less than appealing to me.

As a bit of a joke when I was confirmed back in eighth grade, I choose the confirmation name of Thomas, for Thomas the doubter, who would only believe once he had felt the wounds . . . he he

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"I like my women how I like my coffee, in a plastic cup." - Eddie Izzard

Yes. But there is a diffrence bettween repenting and saying, yo God save me. Alright lets go do it again. That would show that they didn't truely repent. I think we've been through this before.

Well, BurrBoy pretty much summed my beliefs in his second post.
And (scary as it is), I actually agree with Obi on the salvation issue. I think if a person truly wants to "repent" (I hate that word), then they can be forgiven, no matter what they've done.

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Some of you should learn to think a bit and discover - *gasp* - that someone can dislike Michael Moore, Kerry, and Bush!
-Wolfy

Obi I'm just going to be polite about this and say I think you're more than slightly misguided.

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Change is never a choice. You change, and you are who you have become. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

I belive in many Christian things, many Wiccan things, and many other religious things. I belive in parts of many religions, so I guess my religion is unofficial?

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(>º_º)> ±h³ ѳv³®-£ⁿd¡תּ9 §±ºr¥ <(º_º<) | (>º_º)> תּℓζ ШǿѓЖ§|-Юρ <(º_º<)

Amen brother.

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"The quality of the levels you make is determined by the skill of the person not by the editor in which they use!"
-Michael Kyle

MAK Studios 3D

Keep in mind, the following is strictly my opinion: We have free will. We can do pretty much whatever we damn well please, and God isn't going to stop us. So God isn't withholding grace from anyone, it's just that some choose not to accept it.


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Some of you should learn to think a bit and discover - *gasp* - that someone can dislike Michael Moore, Kerry, and Bush!
-Wolfy

I know exactly what you mean. I can't stand it when people with no scientific background or experience tell me that evolution is a "load of crap." I mean, if God created the universe, then I guess he created Evolution too. Yeah, so I guess I believe in Creation through Evolution.

Another thing about the Bible, or more specifically the Old Testament, the thing wasn't meant to be accurate. If someone told me that they had proof that Noah didn't actually fit all those animals onto his ark, it wouldn't shake my faith at all. The Old Testament stories, like Noah, were meant to carry a message, not be 110% historically accurate. The fact is, Noah's story was a promise that God would never forsake humanity again.

Homosexuality is kind of iffy with me, though. I'm not really sure where I stand on it, but I'm leaning towards thinking it's sinning.




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"Windows [n.]
A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition."

No Sajn, you're just in the early stages of Atheism. Either that or you have not found a girlfriend that will force you to go to her church yet.

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Change is never a choice. You change, and you are who you have become. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

well im one of the two muslims as many of you know im wonderin who the other is as well...

as for what sian said, generally yeah i know islam is spread by force or by the whole family line/country infulence thing but i also know its the fastest growin religion. and i think we're one of the few who dont go door to door.

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

Note: I havn't read this entire thread. I've skimmed through it, but I try to stay out of religious arguments as much as possible. I just saw this and felt like responding to it, so here I am.



According to most Christian denominations that I'm aware of, Homosexuality is a sin. But so is greed, lust, hate, and all sorts of other things that we experience every single day of our lives. Is it right that they're homosexual? (According to most Christian denominations,) No. But that doesn't mean it can't be forgiven. From what I understand, no sin is unforgivable. I mean, the way they chose to live is wrong, but so is the way everyone else choses to live. We're all sinners.

So, yeah. I don't want this to turn into a "religion vs homosexuality" thread or anything. Just expressing what I believe to be true.

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Moo.

I am reluctant to say Atheist, although it best describes me. I was raised in the Christian church, but I just found it too hard to accept some things as I got older. I guess you could say Atheist, but honestly I hardly ever think of religion anymore, and just dont care.

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ZGPC