Not if you ask George Lucas!

Hah, I thought the same thing when I typed it.

I don't own any guns right now but two I can think of that I would like to have are:

An Armalite AR-10. Just think M-16 style rifle but with a bigger round. That would give me the stopping power if I ever had to fell a large beast or person in a survival situation.



A Ruger SR-556. Give me something to use my many M-16/M-4 magazines with. Should give me enough reload capability to hold off a siege until the government burns my house down.

bottom line is: stealing yecti's xbox... not a good idea. tenshu's xbox... fair game.

seriously though. once someone has made a decision to break into my home, if i wake up and find out, i am not going to wait and see if they ONLY steal my xbox. i dont care at thins point if they are not after ME, i am simply not going to take the chance of them coming upstairs looking for something else to steal and stumbling across me, or my wife, or god forbit if you have a kid.

to me THAT is the risk that is unacceptable.

If I were in such a situation, I would wake my wife, ask her to call 911 & if I had a gun, which I don't, I would wait at the top of the stairs to protect my wife & to stay in a more strategic area instead of walking downstairs, surprising someone (it's quite likely that they'll either already know that you're home or will be listening for you just in case) who may or may not have a gun & risk both my life & theirs. I'd hate to see what someone that's desperate enough to murder someone would do to my wife after I'm dead or disabled. This whole concept of running downstairs & playing Rambo is a fantasy for the vast majority of people (including gun owners). There's also the possibility that more than 1 of them have a gun. I realize that you were merely giving an example but I personally hope that no one here is dumb enough to confront a criminal in their home & create a dangerous situation where there probably wasn't one. You can still shoot the guy if he's dumb enough to come up the stairs but I hope that you guys will at least exercise a little more caution if you win the unlucky lottery that's violent crime. I've called the cops to my home on 3 occasions & it never took them more than 5 minutes. This obviously varies in different areas but I say stand back & let them earn those taxes.

it sounds like your saying stealing = death penalty in your house

If there was a middle finger emoticon....

Why is everybody assuming that we mean that we will just immediately walk out and shoot anyone we find in our house? Confronting a thief != killing someone. There are many intermediate events that must go terribly wrong for that to work.

Yeah, there probably wouldn't already be a dangerous situation with a criminal in your home.

I've been wanting to start an AR-10 build for a long time. I just can't bring to spend $400 on a lower than is clearly only worth $200. They're ridiculously overpriced in CA. I'm looking at a Knight's Armament SR-25. Same basic thing, really nice.

The Ruger's are really outstanding AR-15s. Sig also makes the 556, which is really nice. CA gun laws suck. Anything that even "looks" scary, like any type of AR, is banned. My Ruger Mini-14 does the exact same thing, same round and everything, but it is OK because it doesn't "look" the part.

That's because they can't see past that, they just assume. They know as soon as you pull a gun out the trigger pulls itself and the bullet has a guidance system that directs itself between the eyes of who ever stands in front of it.

I don't know if you read my entire post or if you have some sort of right-wing radar that skips directly to sentences that you can take out of context but I never said that a criminal in your home wasn't potentially dangerous. I simply stated that pretending like you're Rambo & going downstairs to put yourself & your family at more risk is more dangerous. You don't know how many people are down there, you don't know if they're armed & you don't know their state of mind. Therefore, the safest thing is to stay upstairs, call the police & protect yourself & your family from a superior vantage point. However, you guys are more than welcome to run downstairs, get blown to pieces by 2-3 guys & then watch your children & wife get raped before you die. I don't personally recommend it.

It's stupid to argue "what could happen if a criminal walks into your house". I mean really, it's a pointless and bottomless pit of a conversation.

I didn't assume that about most people in this thread, but your choice of words sounded pretty damn scary.




I know you're joking but I hope you can actually see why some people assume what Bob assumed I assumed.

Yeah, but Mentat, what if you go confront the thief and he turns out not to be a thief at all, but a crazy old rich guy who is holding a giant check that says "You are the winner!" and "$10 million!"? Bet you'd be feeling dumb THEN, huh?

P.S. Neither of my houses have stairs, and in both it'd be more like "what's that noise in the living room?" (peek out my door) "oh **** I am being robbed and now he definitely knows I saw him because I opened the door."

But I guess it'd be best to remain in my bed shaking in fear at any noise that I ever hear in the night. Best to remain ignorant and cornered.

Edit: Deadman, what choice of words do you refer to, specifically?

I'm sure he'd still be there when the police arrive.


My response was obviously directed at someone that does have stairs (e.g: Darth_Alran).


There's a huge difference between barricading yourself at the top of a staircase or in an upstairs hallway or bedroom at a superior vantage point ready to fire on anyone that comes in that direction & lying in your bed w/ your blanket over your head hoping that no one sees you.

But what if the check said "NO COPS!!" on it? WHAT THEN mr. smartey?

I wasn't debating architecture, I was pointing out that it is basically impossible in both of my current houses to find out there is a thief in your house AND remain undetected/inaccessible.

Yes, I read the entire post and, correct, you never said that couldn't be potentially dangerous. You just said it probably wasn't.

But what if alien squids attack and we--

Enough with the strawman arguments. Throwing out "if someone breaks into my house" is a BS argument that is only designed to make you look like an internet badass while painting those liberal pussies as ones that would sit in the closet and defecate themselves.

You like guns. That's fine. I was pissed when I couldn't openly carry my gameboy & pokemon onto my elementary school playground. But don't throw around these silly arguments that have no bearing on how you really feel or what your real opinions are, or cloud the facts of the matter.

I have a Glock 19 with big dot sights, which are the ****.

An 870, which I plan on doing something like
this with.

And I plan on buying some sort of mid length AR. I would love a 6.5 system i could afford to run but it will remain 5.56

Also got one of these:

Exactly! You can throw out scenario after scenario that will get you killed, and scenario after scenario where you wouldn't, or where you'd have to risk it, or where anything could happen. The point is that you can't make a blanket statement that we're all crazy murderers because we evaluate situations and wish to have the correct tools to apply all options.

I also don't get this whole "internet badass" and "rambo" thing that keeps being brought up in this thread. That is a label that YOU are putting on the situation, not us (well, not me, anyway). I am not trying to look like an internet badass, and I do not think I am rambo. I have principles, and I strive to live up to them.

Spook:

That's a pretty nifty 870. My biggest complaint about the 870 was the mag tube length, but they're worked around that.

Are you going to Duracoat it dark earth, too? I painted the frame of my SigPro dark earth, and the barrel/receiver of my Mini-14 FN green. They look great. Duracoat products from LCW are outstanding, I highly recommend them.

I understand 6.5 Grendel is a great round, but not very common. Same with 6.8 SPC. It seems NATO rounds are what to stick with for the time being, though I hear the FN 5.7 uppers are pretty slick.

To be honest I didn't even read it

first i see no stupid assumptions in the post you refer to... i see observations (though one part may be a hair on the extreme side but it's still just an observation) made by reading your posts in NONE of my posts in this thread did i express my beliefs on any uses of a firearm just simply THAT i own some

second the point is you have serious problems (especially with paranoia) if you think all gun owners are violent people you keep implying with your posts that just owning a gun means i want to kill people

I don't know. I might do a coyote brown to match all of my gear. I'll keep LCW in mind, thanks.

Yeah, 6.5 is the ****. From my reading, it looks like it has an optimal external and terminal ballistics. But expensive and hard to find. You're right, NATO is the most sensible thing.

I think I figured it out. I heard a story on the radio today of a man convicted for shooting and killing a police officer during a routine traffic stop.

My reaction: "Man what is wrong with some people? Some people in this world are just sick. His parents are probably peices of ****."

Others: "See if we banned guns this would never happen."

It's not like wars didn't exist before guns where invented

Wars probably involved significantly less death, though...

lol

I have no problem with people owning guns, IF they have actualy undergone saftey training, and store the gun in a safe manner.

However, I dont get how people think that having a gun in very quick access (eg, beside the bed) is going to help, because if you need it that quickly, then it means that it may quite possibly be too late.

Not to mention that if you live in a very high crime area, getting some sort of passive security system (secure screen doors, window screens and the like, and if you are afraid of not being able to get out in a fire, get some sort of interior operated quick release), because by the time you have been woken up, the invader may have already done some damage (especialy if they have invaded for the purposes of sexualy assaulting someone in the house), by having some sort of secure doors and windows, even if they did get in, the noise would be more likely to have woken you up.

I would also point out that I see no reason to have something beyond a shotgun for home defence, as a rifle would risk doing collateral damage due to going right through the target, and you also need to take into account that the person might not go down right after being shot, and if they have a weapon themselves, may be able to get a shot off at you (especialy if you only have basic, civilian-level training in firearms).

To continue on for those who have guns for reasons other than self defence, you don't realy have any reason not to have a secure place to store your firearms, that is lockable, with ammo stored elsewhere.

Nope, also don't have a good reason to do that. No kids or anything.

It is, after all, my house.

Now if I had kids there are laws that come into play, which is perfectly reasonable.

Also, yes, shotguns are probably the ideal for home defense. Preferably with 00 or 000 buckshot. Though some pistol rounds can be counted on to not overpentrate most materials, the sheet rock construction of modern homes fairly well limits you to shotguns applied correctly.

Though, the problem with pistols is that for anyone that doesnt have a whole lot of training, getting an incapacitating shot with a pistol would be very hard (as the head is a small target, and body hits dont always result in instant incapacitation, especialy if the invader is high on some nasty drugs), and if you do get to the point where you need to use the gun, you want to get the target down as fast as possible, which a shotgun would be able to do, due to the amount of damage it will do to the target vs a pistol.

Nobody is saying a pistol is the ideal home defense weapon; anyone who knows anything about firearms knows a shotgun is best. A proper caliber pistol or small caliber semi-automatic rifle would also be good options (especially with HP rounds), though a shotgun is best. A large caliber rifle or bolt-action rifle is just dumb, for lots of reasons.

I keep an RPG nearby for any such occasion; pretty much guarantees that the one or more criminals breaking in would be instantly incapacitated.

Oh man, completely ignoring the defense discussion, if RPGs were legal and readily available I would spend a fairly significant amount of money just to fire one into a junkyard car.

Edit: although in proceeding with the flow of the conversation, my current shotgun is about 4 feet long and I would never ever use it inside a house for that reason, regardless of the effectiveness of the buckshot in it. Also, what "small caliber" rifles do you think would be good indoors? I don't really think that anything that can reasonably be called a rifle is a good idea indoors, even if you have no neighbors or family members.

Because not confronting a potentially life threatening situation makes you a ****ing *****!

Strawman for the nth time. No one (at least, not me) is suggesting hiding in a corner. Rather I'm advocating properly assessing the situation. What's the noise? Well, I'll carefully take a look. Because if it's a burglar, hiding in a corner isn't the best thing to do either. If I read Spook's post correctly, this is what he's suggesting. Find out what's going on, and take the course of action that minimizes conflict, because that's likely to be the safest option.

The point is that everything is a potentially life threatening situation, you can't really know until you observe it. How am I supposed to know whether the noise in my living room is my roommate coming in late or someone coming in to rob me, or someone coming in to kill me, or whatever is even less likely and even worse than that. The very act of finding out puts you in the situation, at least, as I have tried to make clear, in my current homes. What if someone is pulling into your driveway while you sit on the porch? Do you retreat inside until you know who they are? What if you hear a loud bang and a scream from your neighbor's front yard while you're doing the dishes...was that a stack of lumber slipping and pinning him in his garage or was it someone attacking him? Are you going to call the police over a bang and a yell and lock your front door while your neighbor has the life crushed out of him?

I present these situations to illustrate that you can't just hide from everything. Life is risky, sorry. If I hear a crash in my living room, I am going to find out what it is, and if it's an armed burglar surprised by being caught, I want to be prepared for that.

Edit: Emon, yes, I am completely in agreement with you, and forgive my colorful presentation but I get bored and annoyed with picking my words with tweezers to keep from offending. I'm not arguing with you, and I never REALLY was (especially once you clarified that you were just concerned, not judging). However, the impression I am getting from some of the people here is one of fear and avoidance at all costs of risk to self. Obviously, self preservation is a high priority to me, but I also believe that risk is inherent to living a good life, on many different levels, and that includes this...as you say, evaluating the situation rather than avoiding it outright.

The police won't typically arrest you for a false alarm. I can understand if someone thinks they heard something & it could just be a family pet or something but I don't personally think that anyone that would investigate anything more than that (e.g: sounds of someone rummaging through drawers or something of that nature) is too bright. I say leave it up to the people that are paid to do that job when it's possible.

Of course. But walking up to a burglar and saying, "Hey douchebag put down my Xbox" is not "observing." Especially when he might have to "face the consequences" of stealing from you.

Well yeah. But again, the full intent of the intruder is unknowable. The police reaction time in my town is at best a few minutes. Whereas my reaction time upon deciding that it is a life threatening situation is about a second and change.