Right, given the standard conversion rate of each 1 US citizen's life is worth the same as the lives about 2000 European Jews/homosexuals/blacks/gypsies/&c. Godwinfail.

You're speaking in statistics. I'm speaking in terms of morality.

Mass murderer = Mass murderer

The amount of kills isn't a bar we set to guage them by.

You guys honestly need to go back and read some history books. People have been celebrating the deaths of dictators, murderer's, and other bad people for centuries. Remember the world's reaction to Hitler? Remember when they dragged Mussolini and his wife's body to the town square and hung it there for all to see? Remember medieval public punishment's (hangings, guillotine's)? Remember any war that has ever been fought?

Yeah. It has nothing to do with bloodthirst. It has everything to do with the fact that the most deadly terrorist organization we've seen in years has been dealt a huge blow, and morally for USA and the world this is a huge gain. Familie's affected by 9/11 now at least have SOME sense of justice. Lest we forget, this guy masterminded attacks on a country that did nothing to his, then ran and hid in some caves producing threatening videos while he manipulated people into commiting his murderous acts for him and in his name.

Ok... Maybe there's a little bloodthirst, but it was damned well deserved. You can't tell me that if someone killed a member or several members of your family and then threatened and taunted you repeatedly over the years that you'd mourn the day they died.

Haven't read any of this, but I thought you all might be interested in the conversation on my Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/sarn.cadrill/posts/10150236203251535

I stopped reading when they started pulling out bible quotes. Should have known better, being a Facebook discussion and all that.

Facebook: The new and improved 4chan.

Morality isn't a scalar, if it is any sort of remotely valid gauge, it is a vector. When it comes to xenocide, the net impact has nothing to do with morality. Nobody is going to try to claim that some guy stealing your wallet is just as morally bad as a corporation defrauding thousands of old people out of their retirement funds. Likewise, killing twice an order of magnitude more human beings (including 300 thousand of his own citizens) is in no way comparable to the scope of Bin Laden's mass murder, just as some shooter killer murdering 4 people in a spree(*) is in no way morally comparable to Bin Laden.

* "Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders."
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder/serial-murder-1#two

Using morality as a nationalist smokescreen to ignore statistical impact disgusts me.

Yeah, his ideals were pretty ****, but this is false.

Are one of the two of you a soldier? Or is that just Sarn?




LOL So wait... Basically if you kill a bunch of people, then take a break and drink some tea, then kill some more, you "technically" aren't a mass murderer? Just someone that kills a lot? That's seriously your argument?

The guy ORGANIZED terrorism around the globe. Honestly, you expected people to not cheer when he died? That hole you are living in must be extremely comfy and safe.


http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/international/article/128348--osama-bin-laden-dead-killed-by-u-s-troops-in-pakistan

Damn I guess he didn't kill a lot of people after all... I mean, look at the time off that guy had. 2 years between slaughters? What a lazy terrorist. Definitely not dangerous at all.

America's bloodthirst disgusts you... Your logic completely disgusts me.

Your idea of morality is strange.

Don't do that, don't even do that about Hitler. When you create a barrier between "us" and "bad people", you immediately lose sight of the fact that it's completely possible for "us" to end up doing bad things through circumstance. It stops us learning lessons, and it stops us reading the warning signs. Both Hitler and Bin Laden were flawed and angry humans, that's why they ended up committing atrocities.

We are all capable of horrific things.

I completely agree Detty. But in my viewpoint, when someone kills another human being, they give up their humanity. Unless it's in self defense or something along the lines that this was. Calling him an animal was just the best way to describe him. I do not consider people like this to be human beings. The same way I do not consider pedophile's human beings, or people that kill animals for fun rather than necessity. Thus, I cannot refer to them as "humans".

For example, yeah I think what they did to Mussolini was horrible. The guy was bad, there is no doubt about that one. But to publicly display his distorted and bloodied body for all to mock and witness is an atrocity in itself. This is different. Not only did Obama NOT display his body but they are withholding all pictures related to the incident and actually respected the guys wishes/religious beliefs and buried him at sea within 24 hours after his death. They did not have to do this. Osama was an animal in life, killed tons of Americans and others around the world, and yet in his final moment on this planet he was given the same respect that all others are given. A proper burial with respect paid to his religion that he killed us in the name of.

Also: Do not fool yourself into believing that the people would not have cheered back then just as loudly if they did not display Mussolini. They celebrated back then, and they did the same last night.

I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary notices I have read with pleasure.
-Clarence Darrow


Also since you didn't read the thread I'll post it again for you. I don't feel avenged but it brings some semblance of closure.

I think it's safe to conclude that what hitler did was worse, but not because bin laden is some how "better" in ANY sense, but simply because hitler was more effective. I seriously doubt that given the chance Osama would have passed on the opportunity to kill on the scale of hitler.

....Until he is given the military might Hitler had and sets his sights on America.

Osama killed maybe 4000 civilians.

The United States had killed the same number of Afghan civilians through aerial bombing by 6 months after 9/11.

By now the kill count is around 9k if we're just talking about Afghan civilians.

The U.S. 'orchestrated' these deaths, but somehow it's okay? Do you think the tradeoff was worth it?

It's not like Osama killed all 4 thousand civilians with his bare hands. He had plenty of help, just like Bush didn't kill all those people by himself. He had help. So don't try to claim that it's okay because the U.S. is a giant bureaucracy and Osama acted alone.

You are basically claiming that the intentions behind actions matter a lot, and while I agree with you to some extent, tell that to the families of those lost in Afghanastan.

(sNSFW, animated pig sex.)

No one is saying it's just fine and dandy to kill afghan civilians. Just like no one is saying that's it's ok to hide amongst civilians and use them as a defacto shield and then when they are killed by bombs intended for you you shout "oh! Look at the evil america has done!!!"

That's actually the FBI's definition of mass murder. And since the general threshold is four kills, then killing "a bunch of a people, then taking a break", if "a bunch" is more than 4, you are still a "mass murderer". I was just trying to point out that emotionalizing your stance by throwing around the phrase "mass murderer" as though it were some immense genocidal benchmark doesn't reinforce your argument. And no, that was not my argument. That was a citation. I thought the footnote asterisk would have made it clear.



Do not even start on that argument. In case you've forgotten the voyage of the Beagle, humans are in fact animals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I am seeing a blatant contradiction here. You agree with Detty's argument that people who commit atrocities should not be dehumanized, and then you proceed to dehumanize people who commit atrocities. I think Detty's post went completely over your head.

Haha Detty had a point, and I won't disagree. Hitler and Bin Laden were both human - evil bastards, but evil human bastards. That doesn't mean we're bad people for celebrating one of the only major victories, even if it's a more of a symbolic one, we've had since this whole mess has started.

Okay, now someone start a conspiracy theory thread for us to argue on!

Either he's been dead for years or they buried him at sea because whoever shot him unloaded a few more clips into his body and then urinated on his corpse.

Boring conspiracies.

ok let me pull a conspiracy theory out of my ass...

Obama recently whipped out his birth certificate and now he's claiming to kill Bin Laden without letting anyone see the body I think he's trying everything possible to make sure he gets reelected next year so he can take our guns and tax us heavily to pay for illegals and crackheads food and healthcare I mean Wookie06 could claim he killed bigfoot but buried the body without taking photos and would you believe him?



the above is not the actual opinion of the poster

I find it somewhat uncomfortable that there are people demanding to see pictures of a dead body, but he was the monster, right?

I need to see a body, some teeth, and a little dna.

Otherwise Im inclined to believe we have him alive in a bunker. No tinfoil, the us used to be tight with this *******.

I don't think that these celebrations are immoral.

90% of them are unprofessional and lack humility and understanding of the ramifications of the situation, but that's ****ing America for you. Most people aren't exactly counter-terrorism professionals so I didn't expect much else.

However, I don't think any of us can predict the effects this could have on the entire Mideast. Could be a quiet little rumble or it could change the picture drastically.

To me it's just sad that basically the idea of "pics or it didn't happen" has reached this kind of level.

Of course, any anomaly in the pictures at all will bolster the crazies.

Kind of like how scanning your birth certificate without turning of OCR proves that you are a terrorist.

Will respond to other posts later.

Thread over, ultimate meme.

That it will. In the end, the one that is a year and a half from now, I don't know what the final effect will be. It's great to have been in charge while the military accomplishes good things but 1.5 years from now is a long time in political terms. This economy stays like this and he's still going to have a very rough time.

Wookie, to be honest I expect all parties will try and play it down. Obama can't hang his entire campaign on it, and whoever's challenging him can't really bring it up. STALEMATE

I was kinda thinking along these lines myself. Without attempting to place any blame, I will say it's sad that we live in a world where there is a prevalent uneasy distrust of our federal government, whether founded or not.

Also, you can apparently find pictures on the internet. I looked them up earlier. I don't think it's an official photo, but it was supposedly leaked. update (GRAPHIC IMAGE)

oh and here's your conspiracy theory:

http://stevenjohnhibbs.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/

While I don't consider myself part of some of the younger adults I saw on TV last night, I think one needs to understand that to at least people around my age, 9/11 has consumed our history as long as we could process it. I was 12 when it happened, and I'd say its the first event I really can remember that I completely understood the gravity of the situation, but didn't understand why. I knew that it was of such historical signifigance right when it was announced. When we were 12, all we understood was that someone carried out an "unprovoked" attack and killed thousands of fellow Americans. It was a wrong thing to do, it was something bad people do. I put "unprovoked" in quotes because at the time we probably didn't understand the US role in the middle-east.

To see the person behind it come to death not only is good for the rest of the world, but to many younger people, it's the conclusion of a story that has dominated the better part of our lives. No matter how we have all changed since then in our political views, this is one instance where most everybody can agree that some good was done. And I think it's perfectly acceptable to celebrate it. I was honestly shocked when I heard about the reactions around the country, people in the streets, etc. Frankly, I saw it as a good thing, I saw it as people recognizing that no matter what your opinion is of America's involvement elsewhere, the death of Bin Laden was a good thing. And if that's what it takes to bring some of us together briefly before we delve into the madness that is regular American discourse, so be it.

I certainly relate to what you are saying. However, my point is that most people my age seem to be doing the 'America, **** Yeah' thing with an attitude that this is the end of something. It's the end of something spiritual for many people, but in the end, Emmanuel Goldstein got killed by a bunch of ninjas who don't even exist. It is a good thing, and it is significant, but not in the way that so many of our generation seem to think.



That being said, I hope somebody is buying the involved members of DEVGRU and all the intelligence assets along the chain that led to this a beer right now. If all is as we are told, this is some outstanding work on their part.

Are people really stupid enough to think of re ejecting obama because he was president when this happened? Do they not realize the only part he played in this was saying"yes, you can go kill osama" ?

Dont forget that when his military advisors told him they should just use a drone, he said "No don't just bomb the **** out of him. go shoot him so we can get some proof."

It comes with watching films. Essentially what has just happened is the end of Return of the Jedi; Vader/The Emporer is dead and the ewoks are happy, but the Empire is still there.

Yet either way we still don't have proof lol oh well