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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Occupy Wall Street
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Occupy Wall Street
2011-09-28, 10:28 AM #81
No I wouldn't disrespect a serviceman like that.
2011-09-28, 10:49 AM #82
Originally posted by x25064:
Naturally since Michael Moore is a whiney liberal with a considerable amount of media attention, other whiney liberals, mostly in attendance here, will look to him as a leader or a figurehead.

I think that there's a little truth to what you're saying but the fact that there are now movie stars & superstar intellectuals on the scene, I don't think that he'll be as important as you're making him out to be.
? :)
2011-09-28, 10:54 AM #83
Considering the event is held on wallstreet, and carries anti-capitalist sentiment, Michael Moore holds more merit here then anywhere else. This is just based on his previous works and articles. I'm only focusing on Michael Moore since Antony has his panties in a bunch over it.
2011-09-28, 11:09 AM #84
More merit than the educators, professors, and other intellectuals? Hardly.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2011-09-28, 11:10 AM #85
I hardly think all the trendy liberal kids there are going to give a **** about any of that. They see an easily accessible figure and identify. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
2011-09-28, 11:11 AM #86
I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. This is happening down the road from me. It's not just 'liberal kids'. Also please watch your language.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2011-09-28, 11:39 AM #87
Michael Moore hasn't been trendy since Farenheit 9/11. Which is kind of a shame really, because Sicko was actually pretty good.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-09-28, 11:40 AM #88
Originally posted by x25064:
I am done responding to stupid knit-picking. Michael Moore is an idiot, plain and simple and I am ****ing [child], but we already knew this.. annnnd bananas.


I like how what you claim are "elementary assumptions" are actually just quite politically loaded positions.

There's nothing "accepted" about Moore, this is the nature of a controversial figure. The very nature of being controversial is that there is nothing that is "just accepted" about that figure.

For someone talking about elementary concepts, you would think this wouldn't need explaining.

You seem to be talking of his "idiocy" merely from the political positions he takes. The same could be said about his opposites, but it would be pretty obvious that they such accusations are full of empty rhetoric (like what your post is).

You haven't said anything about what Moore says, you've only said "he's just an idiot!" which isn't really saying anything.
2011-09-28, 11:41 AM #89
Originally posted by x25064:
I hardly think all the trendy liberal kids there are going to give a **** about any of that. They see an easily accessible figure and identify. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.


And the idiotic judgmental nonsense just keeps coming....
>>untie shoes
2011-09-28, 11:46 AM #90
Originally posted by Mentat:
I also find it odd how you say they're ignoring things that are central to so many of the protestors. Granted, they're not an army of economists, but no rational person would expect them to be.


I'm not saying that they are ignoring certain things or aren't aware of the government's role, rather, that they are just misallocating their resources to a less valuable place. It doesn't matter if you think "Wall Street runs the show". Because we know they DON'T run the show. Just because Wall Street may line the pockets of politicians does not mean that you ignore the politicians.

People are people. People will ALWAYS try and serve their self-interest. Bankers will always try and argue for a regulation free market. They will try and give money to politicians to game the system. Middle-Class will say "no new tax hikes for the middle-class!" and "tax the rich" instead. Environmentalists will try and get federal park status to land across America. PETA uses it's resources to further their cause for animal rights. That's how it works. Because of this, it is the responsibility of the legislators to sift through the self-interest and truly determine if it's good for the larger populace or not. And they haven't done that lately. But that is THEIR responsibility.

I'm coming around to the idea of the protest in Wall Street having some symbolic significance, but I'm still standing by that it accomplishes absolutely nothing. You have to go the source. That's all I'm saying. I don't mind the protest, people can do what they want. I just think it's a waste of time, and could have ve been taken to a more national level if they said "protest at your state's capital". If they were trying to appeal to the national base, that would've been a better way to get people involved. Good point though about trying something different, though. I would say that a protest like that which happened in Wisconsin was pretty successful in terms of getting national attention and bringing the issue to full light, it's just that the economy is really on EVERYONE's mind right now, so I think the Wall St protest just isn't getting the attention. There are other ways to figure out that Wall Street is in the ****ter now, just by hearing stock numbers, t-bonds/bills/notes, front page news, etc.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2011-09-28, 12:01 PM #91
Originally posted by TSM_Bguitar:
I like how what you claim are "elementary assumptions" are actually just quite politically loaded positions.

There's nothing "accepted" about Moore, this is the nature of a controversial figure. The very nature of being controversial is that there is nothing that is "just accepted" about that figure.

For someone talking about elementary concepts, you would think this wouldn't need explaining.

You seem to be talking of his "idiocy" merely from the political positions he takes. The same could be said about his opposites, but it would be pretty obvious that they such accusations are full of empty rhetoric (like what your post is).

You haven't said anything about what Moore says, you've only said "he's just an idiot!" which isn't really saying anything.


Yes and no. Jesus Christ is one of the most controversial historical figures ever, and it is widely accepted that with him, comes Christianity. With Bush comes the War on Terror, with FDR comes the great depression, these are all accepted notions relating to these figures. With Michael Moore comes extreme liberalism. You (general) would have to live under a rock to not know this.

I agree, the same could in fact be said of his opposites, and if it was Sarah Palin at a pro-life demonstration, I would say the SAME thing.

Lastly, talking about what Michael Moore says and believes is detracting from the initial argument and from the OP itself. It may be relevant to the event, but bringing up his ideals (which should be common knowledge just by his movie titles alone) in this thread would only ignite an insane amount of arguments and knit picking.
2011-09-28, 12:05 PM #92
nit-picking.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2011-09-28, 12:07 PM #93
Good example.
2011-09-28, 2:39 PM #94
Really? So Michael Moore is who you think of when it comes to being an extreme liberal? That's brilliant. He's much more notable than say, John Maynard Keynes. Let me guess, when you think of a conservative you immediately picture someone like Glenn Beck, right?
>>untie shoes
2011-09-28, 2:51 PM #95
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0928/Susan-Sarandon-lends-star-power-to-Wall-Street-protests

Look! Susan Sarandon is there too! She's even more famous than Michael Moore. She's also a known extreme liberal. That means she must be in charge now!
>>untie shoes
2011-09-28, 3:01 PM #96
I want Wookie's take on all of this
2011-09-28, 3:20 PM #97
Originally posted by Couchman:
I want Wookie's take on all of this


No you don't.
2011-09-28, 3:35 PM #98
Originally posted by Couchman:
I want Wookie's take on all of this


He said it was gay.

end of line
" I am the Lizard King, I can do anyhthing... "
2011-09-28, 4:15 PM #99
Wookie wouldn't say that.
>>untie shoes
2011-09-28, 6:04 PM #100
Originally posted by x25064:
Yes and no. Jesus Christ is one of the most controversial historical figures ever, and it is widely accepted that with him, comes Christianity. With Bush comes the War on Terror, with FDR comes the great depression, these are all accepted notions relating to these figures. With Michael Moore comes extreme liberalism. You (general) would have to live under a rock to not know this.

I agree, the same could in fact be said of his opposites, and if it was Sarah Palin at a pro-life demonstration, I would say the SAME thing.

Lastly, talking about what Michael Moore says and believes is detracting from the initial argument and from the OP itself. It may be relevant to the event, but bringing up his ideals (which should be common knowledge just by his movie titles alone) in this thread would only ignite an insane amount of arguments and knit picking.


Your analogies don't make much sense and aren't relevant. Saying that Christianity follows from Jesus isn't the same thing as calling someone an idiot or not. (And the Great Depression predated FDR by the way).

Michael Moore has actually moved away from liberalism for some time now and has essentially become a socialist (although it's possible he's been a socialist and not very forward about it for some time). So your statement about him is inaccurate about extreme liberalism: that's something that you get with Ron Paul, not Michael Moore.

Yes his stance on issues is known, but him being "an idiot" is a normative judgment and simply empty rhetoric.

Speaking of Moore, apparently he was interviewed on MSNBC tonight from the Occupy Wall St event.
2011-09-28, 7:18 PM #101
Originally posted by x25064:
... with FDR comes the great depression ...


Actually, I think that would be more Hoover. Remember "Hoover-villes"? FDR would be more New Deal.

That's about as far as I want to get into this "debate". You guys seem pretty "extreme" here!

Originally posted by Couchman:
I want Wookie's take on all of this


The Star Wars nerd in me wants to comment on that spelling!
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2011-09-28, 7:19 PM #102
Originally posted by Mr. Robot:
Actually, I think that would be more Hoover. Remember "Hoover-villes"? FDR would be more New Deal.

That's about as far as I want to get into this "debate". You guys seem pretty "extreme" here!



The Star Wars nerd in me wants to comment on that spelling!


You should have been around when wookie was here. He was the yin to our yang. And yes, it's misspelled. He was our resident idiot republican.
>>untie shoes
2011-09-28, 7:19 PM #103
Originally posted by Mr. Robot:
The Star Wars nerd in me wants to comment on that spelling!
It's how the user spelled his name. He was a bad speller. ;)
The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
http://forums.theplothole.net
2011-09-28, 7:24 PM #104
Originally posted by Gebohq:
He was a bad speller. ;)
Among most other things.
2011-09-28, 7:28 PM #105
oic
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2011-09-28, 9:58 PM #106
Originally posted by Cr0wb4r:
Is/was Antony a marine?


I just saw this. Yes. I consider myself a half Marine because I never really got to do any Marine type things.
>>untie shoes
2011-09-29, 4:55 AM #107
If a marine is someone who marines, and you never marined, how are you a marine?
2011-09-29, 6:39 AM #108
Yeah, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Also: why are we speaking about wookie in past tense? Did I somehow miss his dramatic exit?
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2011-09-29, 6:43 AM #109
I wouldn't call it dramatic, my favorite was still Gold's vacation package
2011-09-29, 6:47 AM #110
Oh yeah I do remember that.

But did wookie get a permaban? Or did he just leave?
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2011-09-29, 8:31 AM #111
permabanned. :/
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2011-09-29, 9:38 AM #112
FDR, iirc, was the president who cleaned up the great depression. Thus I, and most others associate him with that era. The 'fireside chats', the new deal, etc.

note that I could have my Roosevelt's messed up, but I'm fairly certain Teddy was the trust-buster from the early 1900's.

As far as my analogies go, they were in direct response to the whole 'controversial figure' section that you posted, not Moore's intelligence level, or lack thereof. Ergo, why I quoted you when I responded.
2011-09-29, 2:27 PM #113
Hey it looks like feeger was right. You are a less articulate version of wookie06.
>>untie shoes
2011-09-29, 2:55 PM #114
Its just not the same tho :colbert:
" I am the Lizard King, I can do anyhthing... "
2011-09-29, 2:59 PM #115
where did emon go?
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-09-29, 3:11 PM #116
Originally posted by Antony:
Hey it looks like feeger was right. You are a less articulate version of wookie06.


Except I am moderate and really don't share any of his sentiments? Cool story bro.
2011-09-29, 3:15 PM #117
[quote= The Protestors] This is the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City and the call to action, adopted last night by an enthusiastic consensus.

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, formerly divided by the color of our skin, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or lack thereof, political party and cultural background, we acknowledge the reality: that there is only one race, the human race, and our survival requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their brethren; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give CEO’s exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated gender inequality and discrimination in the workplace.
They have poisoned the food supply, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have continuously sought to end the rights of workers to negotiate their pay and make complaints about the safety of their workplace.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty book keeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.
They have participated in a directly racist action by accepting the contract from the State of Georgia to murder Troy Davis.
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard! [/quote]
2011-09-29, 3:17 PM #118
Originally posted by x25064:
Except I am moderate and really don't share any of his sentiments? Cool story bro.


I love being able to actually hear someones scorn when reading their responce
" I am the Lizard King, I can do anyhthing... "
2011-09-29, 3:25 PM #119
Originally posted by x25064:
Except I am moderate and really don't share any of his sentiments? Cool story bro.


One of the side effects of being delusional is that you don't realize it.
>>untie shoes
2011-09-29, 3:33 PM #120
Originally posted by Antony:
One of the side effects of being delusional is that you don't realize it.


k.
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