Spiders have such a high rate of reproduction for a very good reason: Extremely few of them survive to maturity. In addition, I don't know about Jin, but my house doesn't have enough live prey to support a colony of huntsman spiders. Do you think those baby spiders are smart enough to get out of a house before they starve to death?

Webs are also extremely messy and annoying to clean up, they get everywhere, and - in spite of what you may have read in your PETS manual - having a nest of 200 baby spiders in a multi-thousand dollar electrical device is not a good idea.

Sorry, no. But don't feel bad - zeal is often accompanied by unrealism.

You should also take arachnophobia into consideration.

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
----@%

[Good on ya]

[This message has been edited by Jaiph (edited January 03, 2004).]

imsoshort, you remind me of someone..hmm..

bah, nevermind..

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
----@%

Wow, two bans in one thread. For anyone else planning a verbal assault run, how about no, ok?

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian & A Very Massassian Xmas
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Sure, bash me all you want, but I'm with spidey on this one.

Spiders are truly remarkable creatures. I must admit I have killed a few myself. I have a very bad case of arachnophobia. (yes, I am aware of how irrational it is, especially concidering I live in canada and we only get TINY non-venomous spiders). I only kill them if they get in my room, and before I do I always wait a few hours to see if they leave on their own. I kill them because I get so terrified I freeze up and panic. If I felt the same way about humans and there was one in my room that wouldn't leave, I'd probably kill it too.

Whenever I see a spider outside my room I just let it be or try to find someone who has the courage to pick it up and bring it outside. I do feel very bad about killing them for no good reason.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

It's an irrational fear that the majority of us have.

Spidey, that's nice and all that you take the time to cut our posts up and all. It's great that this country allows free speech, and that you do in fact have the right to debate on behalf of spiders, but SHUT UP.

It's not sadism to kill them, do you even know what sadism is? It's to take pleasure in the pain and suffering of another lifeform.

Jin, myself, and many others are intimidated and downright scared by spiders - we feel them as threatening and so we kill them. We don't take pleasure in it - some out there do, but guys like me and Jin would rather not encounter them altogether than kill them.

You wish to treat spiders as if they're sentient and equal. Well what the bloody hell are they doing in my house? If they're as people, what's he going to do? Rob me? Kill me? Live in my basement without telling me and eat all my pringles?

What would you do if there was a feral silverback gorilla male in heat sitting in your living room one morning?

You sure as hell wouldn't admire its beauty, you'd run like hell, maybe break a window to escape its wrath, whether or not it attacks or even SEES you.

It's just the way it works. I, as a man, reserve the right to regard any unknown person or animal who turns up in my personal space as an enemy to be either repelled or killed.

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Duel Zero : Released the beta. Probably the end of it. Not to worry though, I'm working on Randsaber, which is a lot better.

Who would have guessed!

By the way, I'm with Flexor and Spidey. Mainly.

[This message has been edited by Acharjay (edited January 04, 2004).]

haha

we've already got a religious forum, spider forum coming up next

Or maybe Spider Religions.

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You're entering a world of pain.

Oh, God, that's disgusting!!!! I can't believe that happened!

Mountain Dew! Ugh!

This thread... oh goodness. I feel lightheaded.

Let me try to sum this up as consicely as possible. Ahem:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Whew. That is all.

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Frightening the very small and very old since 1952.

I hate spiders(and all bugs), and I kill them when ever I see them come near me in my house,

I feel bad that I had to kill them, but I don't feel bad that they're dead.

now you compare killing those spiders with killing dogs, its just silly.. why?

If 120 odd some unknown/unwelcomed dogs rushed into your house, and lets assume that there was no such thing has animal control(and and the police/ect won't help either), and the dogs are not smart enough to leave your house

Would you kill them? I think most people would and not be blasted for it..


[This message has been edited by Grim Zombie (edited January 04, 2004).]

I usually go out of my way to avoid causing death of insects and the like now, and simply find a way to get them outside or something.

In the very unlikely case that there was a chance it might hurt me, I'd make the judgement there on whether attempting to capture and release is worth the possible risk.

I understand what Spider Al is saying, If they were rabits I wouldn't be bothered. But I'd experience a fealing of fear/violation at a ridiculous number of spiders, just because it's my House, they are small, produce large numbers of progeny, and thus can be anywhere, and if left unchecked probably will be everywhere.

They might not kill me, but I still wouldn't want to walk into a room and find uninvited guests, and would be bothered by the rational idea of it somehow getting to my food.

In conclusion, it's the sheer number that would freak me out in Jin's case, because finding a spider in you bed isn't so bad, even finding it in your food might not be so bad, but when it gets to the point where you can count on the occurance, it's ridiculous. It's your house, your refuge. Extreme measures may have to be taken, as they don't belong there anyway.

A single spider can be saved, even in cases of a relatively dangerous one. When it becomes legion, we've passed a limit.

(your story has made me glad I live in Staten Island, where the worst we have are supposedly recluses which even then you'd probably have to look to find)

(oh and in NY, I believe, the intruder must pose a very real threat to you or another, or you can be charged with murder: meaning you can't shoot a fleeing person, etc.)

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

[This message has been edited by Bounty Hunter 4 hire (edited January 05, 2004).]

Firstly, Flexor, I admire your level of control over your fear and your very laudable scruples. It's the presence of people like you that stops me from losing all hope for humanity. Keep on trucking vis-a-vis your fears, they are beatable. I too was arachnophobic due to my aforementioned childhood conditioning, but I beat it. Picking them up is no problem once you have the knowledge. They even do courses in it.

Grashopper4232:

Let me put it this way: As to your first point, the spider has no concept of YOUR home. It's too large a place and an idea for a spider. Allowances must therefore be made. One can expect another HUMAN to know about boundaries of property, but you cannot apply the same defensive mentality so prevalent in today's society to non-human species.

Secondly, the risk of being harmed by a spider is INFINITESSIMAL. There is as much risk of your being beaten to death by a maniac wielding a very heavy inflatable woman as there is of your being killed by a spider. So since these two risks are so tiny, why are people so irrationally afraid of them, and why do they take their fear out on the many harmless breeds of spider and other creepy crawlies? People afraid of dogs do not feel justified in killing dogs. Dogs are alive. They are vaguely stupid. Spiders are alive and also vaguely stupid. There is no difference. You may THINK there is, but you cannot prove it logically and that is all that counts.

Point A: You are not the president my friend. There is not a secret cadre of fanatical suicide-bomber-spiders hiding around every corner waiting to get you. The president is protected from attack because he is in REAL danger. You are not in real danger from spiders. The chance of you coming to harm at the eight hands of a spider are too small to call it a real danger. It's a freak possibility.

Point B: I don't kill the bees or wasps that come into my house, even though they are statistically more likely to do me harm than just about any other insect. Why? Because I know that I am several thousand times bigger than the small creature, and the small creature has next to no chance of defeating me in mortal combat. Call it mercy if you will, but I do not... I call it reasonable force.

Many people in your camp in this thread have made mention of the laws that allow one to use deadly force even on humans in certain circumstances... Let me use one of my own here. Reasonable force. The law allows one to use a REASONABLE level of force to defend oneself against threat from humans. But since there is no threat of harm from most arthropods in most countries, surely the reasonable level of force to use against them is ZERO. Humans are very dangerous to other humans regularly. But spiders? Well more people are murdered by other people. More people die of bee stings. So why aren't more people horribly phobic of other people and/or bees, when a HUGE number of people are irrationally afraid of spiders? Why? Because people are irrational.

They shouldn't be. Irrationality has caused most of history's problems. We each have a responsibility to change, and that is one point that simply cannot be argued.

Tony:

You did say what I quoted, ("Killing about 50 to 100 of 'em is nothing.") *I* was the one who referred to other species as an analogy, because spiders ARE a type of animal, and abusing them is animal abuse as surely as abuse of any other species is. THINKING that something will do you harm IRRATIONALLY is no excuse for killing it, many people are irrationally terrified of coming to harm at the hands of ethnic minorities after all.

And I'm glad you agree with me on the last point. It's the key one.

You could say "prove it is", but the burden of proof is on those who wish to ABUSE animals, not those who wish to spare them. And oh, so all the people who haven't won a nobel prize aren't sentient? Intelligence is a rarified concept and has no relationship to sentience which is a pseudo-religious concept that people have been using to justify various forms of torture visited upon not just OTHER species, but members of our own, for centuries in one form or another. Sentience is modern dogma: in olden times the word would have been "soul". "That creature doesn't have a soul, so we can do what we like to it". "That creature isn't self aware, so we can do what we like to it".

Why, are you Jerry Springer? Ergh, maybe you're Judge Judy.

What do you mean "in the sense"? Of course they're alive, in EVERY sense. Duh. And as far as I'm aware, our nutritional requirements are still too complicated for a "total" vitamin and mineral supplement to be devised. If they made it, I'd take it. Mealtimes are social death by increments.

Oh if you're allergic to wasps, that is, if a wasp could kill you with one or two stings, then it would pose a huge risk.

The spiders Jin slaughtered did not pose such a huge risk.

You just met the man who cares. And your first sentence in that paragraph doesn't make ANY sense. Listen, you obviously only care about getting away with things, you're obviously not concerned with being a MORAL man. That's fine. Such people are a pestilence upon the world, but that's just the way you are. MY input into this thread was meant for the eyes of people who wish to be moral. If you don't wish to be moral, a debate between us is pointless, isn't it. Good day.

Correction:

No, sentences are self-contained linguistic units. Each contains an idea. If I were to split UP sentences, that would be quoting out of context.

Thrawn42689:

Well when I see a creature that could cause me pain, note, not HARM me seriously, but only cause me pain, I remove the creature from my place of repose. In other words, if I'd been you, I would have put the spider in a box, taken it outside and shaken it onto the grass. There is no need to kill it BEFORE it bites you, and what would be the point in killing it AFTER it has bitten you? Killing it won't heal the bite. Pointless vengeance, anyone? I thought that "eye-for-an-eye" justice went out with rednecks and check shirts.

Jon`C:

Their high rate of reproduction is to protect their population from natural predators of which there are MANY. They hardly need us wandering around butchering their young on a whim AS WELL.

In short, yes. Spiders are notoriously intelligent when it comes to finding a good habitat. And there are stories of spiders finding prey even when sealed inside double-glazed windows. So there.

Those webs help to protect people against disease-carrying mosquitoes. Therefore I find their presence comforting. Besides Jon, the issue isn't whether the spiders should be left in the PC, is it. The issue is whether one should kill them all, or merely remove them without killing them.

Jin took the trouble to take the front panel off and throw it into the bath, killing the THIRTY TO FORTY spiders on it. Jin could have JUST as easily taken the front panel outside and shaken the spiders off. That is an example of the detrimental effects of irrational and self-indulgent fears of harmless creatures. Poor things...

Spider crawled into my shirt once. I took off the shirt, and took the spider outside, releasing him. Yes, he bit me, but because I have KNOWLEDGE, I knew he wasn't venomous. So no I didn't go insane and kill him. There was no need.

Checksum:

Truly, you must be an irrational person to sit there and KNOW that your fears are irrational, but seemingly having no desire to CHANGE that. You don't HAVE to be afraid for god's sake! You have control over your OWN MIND... guh.

As previously mentioned, I don't quote people out of context, EVER. Good day to that. Secondly, I always find it amusing when someone puts the phrase "free speech" and the slightly less pleasant phrase "shut up" in the same sentence. Heheheh. I mean, do you know what free speech is? It means you CAN'T shut people up. It means you're not ALLOWED to shut people up. In fact the concept of free speech means that the only people who should shut up, are the people who wish to shut up others. QED. If you don't like it, go away. Nobody forced you to read my posts.

And don't even start with that "free speech means I'm free to tell you to shut up" nonsense, because that's like saying "free trade means I'm free to deny you trade." It doesn't make any sense.

Well Jin killed a bunch of other lifeforms and then came onto this forum to boast about how clever he/she was for doing so... I don't think it's a huge logical leap, hmm? And actually sadism is defined on dictionary.com as "extreme cruelty", not merely pleasure-deriving cruelty. So do YOU know what sadism is? Obviously not...

Still don't get it, do you. Your fear is irrational. That means your actions have no morality in them. Okay, you've scared yourself to death over nothing, okay... That DOESN'T give you the right to commit cruel acts of the type Jin did and you seem to admit to doing. It doesn't matter HOW scared you make yourself over spiders, no amount of fear makes killing a harmless creature a moral act.

YOU have the choice, because you are informed and hopefully, intelligent. The spider does not, because of its comparitive lack of reasoning power. That doesn't make the spider worthless, only different. So you shoulder the moral burden. SORRY!

First, I'd make sure my titanium-reinforced chastity belt was on and locked...

You have no such moral right. You can't GIVE yourself such moral rights. You have the moral right to defend yourself against DANGER, not IMAGINED danger. Grow up.

Grim Zombie:

Mate, your analogy doesn't take into account the fact that spiders are easy to remove from one's house. Dogs might not be. Secondly dogs are MUCH more dangerous than spiders, but beloved by most. So god, pick a better comparison. The dog comparison has always served MY argument, not yours.

Bounty Hunter 4 hire:

I admire your extremely even-handed approach to the argument, but this is far from rational... spiders aren't dirty. And if a spider got into your food, the spider would be in trouble, not you, and well, I allow all sorts of spiders everywhere in my house, and they've never come near my food. Plus I value their presence as they hunt genuinely (though only slightly) harmful species like mosquitoes and weevils, roaches, wasps that might sting me etc. Now I'd be worried about one of THOSE getting into my food. Spiders do little but help us as a species. I think it's important that everyone realises that fear of these creatures is very irrational. And gosh, most of the spiders Jin slaughtered were young, so EVEN MORE HARMLESS. It's too harsh.

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Spider AL
--

That's nice. I'll kill them anyway.

I'll eat my human-baby veal topped with spiders and wash it down with the souls of the damned.

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Duel Zero : Released the beta. Probably the end of it. Not to worry though, I'm working on Randsaber, which is a lot better.

now THAT was the longest, most pointless poast evor. it's nice that you have so much passon for spiders, really. but most of us have figured out that you can not change the mind of a person on an online forum just by posting your views over and over and over, more loudly and obnociousily each go round. it's pointless.

say your peace, let it be.

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IMPORTANT NOTICE PLEASE READ

Employees dying on the job are faling to fall down. THIS PRACTICE MUST STOP as it becmes impossible to distinguish between death and the natural movement of he staf.

Any employee found dead in an upright position will be dropped from the payroll.

I have a dream... *American flag drops in background patriotic music plays* That all species will have free rights and live in harmony together without fear of discrimination or sqwashing!

Sorry I mean I know this post is stupid but it fits so well into how stupid this thread is... bugs do not have souls get over it.

How do you know? Hmmm??

I agree with Spider AL, some of you are now just being ignorant that he proved you wrong.

Why must animals follow our rules?


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Massassian since: March 12, 2001

[=-"The hardest thing is to forgive, but God does;
Even if you murdered or robbed, years wrong, but God loves;
Take one step toward him, he takes two toward you;
Even when all else fail, God supports you." - Nas-=]

Succinct, Sol, succinct.

Checksum:

At last you admit yourself to be immoral. No smokescreen arguments left eh?

Elana14:

If you'd done me the courtesy of reading my posts at all you'd know that I'm specifically not interested in changing the minds of people who have already decided, only providing a balanced factual argument to sway people who are UNDECIDED. As for posting my views over and over, I'm not the one who has been repetitive. I've responded DIRECTLY to counter-arguments, mostly proving that they're without logic. QED.

Let me put it this way, as long as people address their posts towards me and my arguments, I'll continue to respond, k?

Wait a minute, the people you're siding with haven't stopped posting... why exactly should their opponents ie. me, stop? What a double-standard.

MechWarrior:

Eheheee, religious0rz alert, religious0rz alert... I'm sorry, but I refuse to recognise the counter-arguments of someone who believes that the universe is run by a gigantic long-bearded toga-wearing old man somewhere beyond the stars.

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Spider AL
--

Amen.

And Spider, he wears hot pants.



So why should we recognise any of yours?

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Yeah, but you know what? This one, this one right here, this was my dream, my wish, and it didn't come true. So I'm takin' it back. I'm takin' 'em all back.

[This message has been edited by - Tony - (edited January 06, 2004).]

Ohh I dunno, a little thing called LOGIC MAYBE? rofl.

eight-legged hotpants eh, there's a tailor's nightmare.

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Spider AL
--

Logic? Logic like "I think spiders have souls so they do and you shouldn't hurt them?" Logic like "Spiders are loveable creatures akin to bunnies, unlike the demon-spawn we call wasps which will go out of their way to sting me for no reason?"

Actually Elana had a very good point - the LAST place in this world where you'll change people's minds is on an internet forum, especially with an overbearing holier-than-thou arguement.

You want to fix the world? Go raise hell at a furry forum. Explain to those freaks how they're immoral.

Please, for the love of God, do it. Cleanse our internet.

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Duel Zero : Released the beta. Probably the end of it. Not to worry though, I'm working on Randsaber, which is a lot better.

[This message has been edited by Checksum (edited January 06, 2004).]

Neither do humans. What's your point?


-Fox

It isn't like we brutally beat, abuse, slaughter, and eat these so called "spiders". I mean pfft... Next thing you're going to tell me we do that to cows or something. HA!


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SAJN_Master had sticky Shift button - wrote 179 lines in CAPS.
Sample: [17:42] <SAJN_Master> Flexor

Checksum:

I'm not sure where you're getting this drivel from, I've certainly never said anything like it. Just your diseased brain again eh!

Firstly the issue isn't whether spiders are sentient... Concept of the soul is outdated religious dogma, sentience is modern dogma. The issue is in fact that you can't prove that insects, arachnids, mammals, avians, fish, molluscs and crustacea, AREN'T sentient. Since YOURS is the camp that attempts to justify its amoral actions with the claim that sentience = value, YOURS is the camp that must give all species including spiders the benefit of the doubt when it comes to sentience and the possibility of sentience.

I don't give a flying turd about sentience. My respect for other life forms isn't limited to my perception of their intellect or psychological makeup. The point of the debate over sentience is that as soon as your camp MENTIONED sentience, they shot themselves in the foot. Q.E.D.

Yeah, all animal abusers think those who bring them to book are "holier-than-thou do-gooders" or something of the like. It's to be expected. And you're really not taking any of this thread in at all, are you Check. I've said repeatedly that I'm not interested in changing the minds of irrevocably closed-minded animal-abusers.

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Spider AL
--

People like you make people like me watch people like Jon Stewart make fun of people like you that complain about people like us.

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SAJN_Master had sticky Shift button - wrote 179 lines in CAPS.
Sample: [17:42] <SAJN_Master> Flexor

Um, you can stop now. Jin dealt with his issues in an adult manner and now everything's fine.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

Every summer here in Southern California, the spiders come inside to have themselves a good time. My bedroom is small and cluttered, so I don't make it an effort to vaccum every week. At night, I have to wrap myself in my blanket and close my fists, because there have been too many incidents where I've felt a brown spider crawling through my hands. A lot of the time, they'll walk accross my arm while I'm at my computer, or I'll just happen to see one on my wall before I go to bed. These aren't little spiders, they're reasonably large; and very intimidating.

One time, I made my bed before calling it a night, and I happened to leave the TV on for a few moments after turning the lights out and getting tucked in. I thought I saw a shadow being cast on the wall a few inches away from my face, but it was in fact a wolf spider. While I admire the creatures, I'm not head over heels in love with them. Brave little soldier...

I have been bitten by one of these nasties only once in my life time, it was in 2002. I woke up one morning, and my ankle was itching; there was a golf ball sized lump that itched like crazy. I never scratched it, and I treated it every day, yet it left a faded red mark. The sucky thing about it is that I didn't inherit spider-like abilities... it just hurt like hell whenever I touched it.

We also have a lot of grass spiders at our house, as well as many other things. The grass spiders make these neat funnel web traps, and the spiders are usually about an inch or two in overall length. One of them came in the house once and headed toward our pets water dish; it was black, with these really cool green stripes, it was pretty amazing. Of course it had to die... rules are rules.

(Edit: Typos are fun..)

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"And I listen for the whisper of your sweet insanity, while I formulate denials of your affect on me. You're a stranger, so what do I care. Vanish today, not the first time I hear, all the lies..."

[This message has been edited by Mr. Alias (edited January 06, 2004).]

Ok fine. I'm sick of this.

You took my stuff totally out of context - you said yourself you liked spiders because they kill wasps which could sting you.

I'll continue to kill and eat things untill the day I die, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Save the insults, unless you want banned, of course.]

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Duel Zero : Released the beta. Probably the end of it. Not to worry though, I'm working on Randsaber, which is a lot better.

[This message has been edited by Checksum (edited January 06, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by kak (edited January 06, 2004).]

Kak's on a roll, man.

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Frightening the very small and very old since 1952.

Checksum:

No I didn't. Just because the things that you said are made to look laughable when paired with my incisive ripostes, doesn't mean they're out of context. I don't split up sentences and I reply to each point exactly the way it was written originally, contextually speaking.

No I didn't. I merely stated REPEATEDLY that the fact that spiders prey on creatures that could cause people more pain than spiders ever could, is a factor in their FAVOUR. It is a reason that one should find them COMFORTING.

I LIKE spiders because they're amusing and interesting creatures. I like dogs and cats for the same reason.

I also eat meat. That's not what this debate is about is it? Unless you in fact eat spiders... Ergh.

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Spider AL
--

heh heh

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<Cazor> dude, i am so giving my gay friend your number.
<Cazor> bwahaha. owned.
<Ruthven> NO!!!!!!!!!!
<Cazor> yeah. and he's pretty persistant.
<d-_-b> haha

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Okay, perfect anti-spider argument: I'm allergic to copper.

------------------
Yeah, but you know what? This one, this one right here, this was my dream, my wish, and it didn't come true. So I'm takin' it back. I'm takin' 'em all back.

Eating Meat vs Peaceful home, the eternal argument, i'd say he had reason, since you could really just cut a pice of a cow off and keep it alive and pain free with the right treatment, but the treatment is time consuming and expensive, and although expense isnt an issue, it is time consuming, so it isnt done.... and i'm sure it takes a hell of a lot less time to let spiders swim, as opposed to letting them out of the house of their own free will.

On another note, i just made that point because i thought it needed pointing out, i actually like spiders, and I like them around the house, but we only get small ones here. I like them because they're harmless, and kill all the horrid, filthy insects like flies, which rub **** in your food, not a nice thing. The only thing that spooks me about spiders is the feeling they make when they touch me... but i could say that about anything or anyone, so meh.

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mmm, smells like something burning.

I live with many spiders in my room. Granted they aren't that creepy looking and hairy and stuff, otherwise I'd probably wipe them all out. And when it comes time to vacuum my room, the spiders seem to live in the dirtiest quarters of my room, and frankly I'd rather have a clean room than a clear, non-spider killing conscience.

On the rare occasion where a spider will web itself down from my ceiling, and drop directly between me and my computer monitor while I am playing a game or something... they get the clap from me. Just living in my house is one thing, but violating my line of sight to my monitor is going too far. Unfortunatly it usually leaves a bit of gooey spider guts on my hands that I have to go wash off (its usually not a big spider when I can just clap it without hesitation).

I notices Spider Al made a comment about Bees a few pages back. I despise bees. I couldnt take out the garbage at work, or at home all summer, nor could I mow the lawn without getting harassed by bees. Luckily I never got stung, but only because I was extremely careful around those things. And Im not just talkin one or two. When I would open the dumpster at work, hundreds of them would swarm, I would drop the garbage and run back inside, and wait until it got dark to finish throwing it away. I HATE BEES.

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"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

The answer, obviously, is to kill them all.

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Duel Zero : Released the beta. Probably the end of it. Not to worry though, I'm working on Randsaber, which is a lot better.

...I can safely say that I've never read anything quite so silly as this thread.

Spiders need our help to survive, folks! They need to be nurtured and cared for, and if they happen to stupidly lay their eggs in an environment where there is no live prey, it's our responsibility to carry the eggs outdoors! Nevermind the fact that there are 36,000 species of spiders, and about 1 acre of forest contains 2 million spiders. (Another fun fact for you lawn fans: You have about 50 spiders per square foot)

I don't know how many spiders have a poison that can affect humans - contrary to your information, all spiders are poisonous to a certain extent -, but I'm certain that something in those bites went to your brain.
Spiders may deserve recognition as a part of our ecosystem, but they don't deserve our respect and they don't need our help to survive.

Septic Yogurt:

Umm... cows? Wtf0rz?

Don't be pedestrian in your thinking. Weigh it up: Putting the front panel in a bath, or putting a front panel outside... Well shucks, no more effort there! Plus there's the added effort of drying the front panel after putting it in the bath...

Well thanks mate, you've proven my point yet again with your example! Still, it was never in doubt.

KOP_Snake:

Come off it, killing things for "violating your line of sight" is just petty, man. But at least you're not an inveterate animal abuser like Jin.

But they're so fuzzy.

Jon`C:

And I've never read anything quite so silly as your input. Specifically:

You're a muppet if you believe for one moment that there's no live prey for spiders in your home. No matter how carefully you tape over the cracks in the window frames, no matter how religiously you wave the bug spray around, there will be plenty of small creatures for spiders to feed on. You are sir, misinformed. Or wilfully ignorant, one of the two or both. You're so incredibly blind to the fact that your home is as much a thriving ecosystem for arthropods as any other place. It's amazing.

Contrary to your predictably self-serving interpretation, as you're well aware there are a tiny tiny proportion of spiders which can be classified as AT ALL dangerous to humans, and those are the species we are commonly referring to when we discuss "poisonous" or more properly "venomous" spiders.

Oh for once Jon's absolutely 100% right in one respect: spiders don't need our help to survive.

Neither do blue whales.

It might, on the other hand, just help a tiny tiny bit if we didn't, oh I don't know, RUN AROUND SLAUGHTERING THEM?

Grow up. I'm fully aware that you've probably been indoctrinated by government sponsored messages saying such helpful things like "consume as many natural resources as possible, there are always more just around the corner!" but the world doesn't exist in a place of isolation somewhere OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSE. Everything you do has an effect on it, so for goodness sake act- and think- responsibly for a change.

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Spider AL
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leaving the panel outside, doesnt mean the spiders will leave, you would have to do more to confirm that they get out of the case.... killing them confirms that they leave the case quite easily.



because we all know your opinion on everything is always the right one.

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mmm, smells like something burning.

[This message has been edited by Septic Yogurt (edited January 08, 2004).]