I mean I really don't like your voice.

I'm really picky though, so don't feel too bad.

physical passes like being too flirtatious with her? or physical passes like being abusive? if that's the case I guess I can kinda see how u worry about her, but if it's the first one, isnt that being jealous? *just trying to understand what you meant a little better*

Laura:)

And did anyone else thing "GBK" with the first post?

Anyway, you are being really creepy. Just ask her out so you aren't so creepy. Then again, you may already be in the friend's zone. Depends on how long you've known her.

Physical passes as in grabbing her where they shouldn't. And she won't take it to authorities, so I worry if these guys know where she lives or anything. She doesn't even know who they are. I don't know if this is an ongoing thing or not, but I would be more than happy to bust their damn skulls in if I'm ever around when it happens. I knew someone would. But there's a pretty big difference in writing a song for someone and dedicating a Jedi Knight level to someone. How? It's not like you have to study someone real hard to know these things. It's just that I pay attention to her and remember things. So what? I've known her for about 3 years. I went dancing with her a few weeks ago, but it wasn't like a date.

Ok well then I guess that makes some more sense, that you are watching out for her. that sounds a bit like sexual harrassment. So she's told you about these things then?

Are you afraid to tell her how u feel? 3 years is a pretty decent amount of time, is she dating someone or something?

Laura

I thought she was dating someone else, and only recently found out that she wasn't (because the guy is dating someone else for sure).
I am a bit afraid to tell her how I feel. I'm the quiet type, and I know it would be really wierd for me to just tell her. So I'm trying to develop a better friendship with her first, so it's not nearly so wierd for her, and so she has a chance to know more about me and make a more 'accurate' decision.

alright that sounds decent. Just be aware that if a woman is single and even if she is interested if a guy doesnt show interest of any sort they tend to move on.

So dont come on strong or anything, just be her friend, but also be flirtatious some what so she'll see u have feelings, and it's always nice for a woman to recieve compliments. Tell her she looks pretty in an outfit one day, or tell her she has a nice smile or something like that. 3 years is already a pretty long time, but anything is possible. anywho, good luck

Laura

From the sounds of it you'd admit your love for her or do something equivelent, like show her this song, and she would give you the "I only like you as a friend" line because if she was attracted to you before she is now over it and has moved on(women are really good at this, much better than men). Now, she will be slightly weirded out and slowly distance herself from you or become a tad bit standoffish and mean. Eventually in confusion you continue to pursue her until she cuts off all contact with you and you become very bitter about this. You join clan ruthervain on saturday nights to discuss how evil women are and to practice your katana skills on manacins(sp?). Eventually you will move on. So, instead of professing your feelings for her, cut straight to the part about moving on and you will be able to keep a friend.

Just my analysis.

\

man kieran haha...the glass half empty, or half full lol

(hugs) no candy coating on your end huh meh, u are the only guy I know that can get away with that and still be cool in my opinon, because I know u arent trying to be a jerk about it, rather u are just trying to be a realist.

Anywho Dogsrool in the end it's up to you. but if u decide to never tell her you like her, then I agree with kieran to just move on. but if u do tell her just be prepared for any number of responses but if u are willing to take that, then I say go for it, cuz u'll never know till u try. You might tell her and good things might come of it, or u might tell her and what kieran said might come of it. anywho in the end it's up to u

Laura

Oh, great... because she used to flirt with me before I was ever interested in her. Now, she almost seems afraid to touch me. I could take that a number of different ways, I guess. And for a short time there, I would make simple contact with her, like a quick pat or rub on the back or shoulder as I passed by. Then, I got nervous around her again, and quit doing it. Almost did the other night.
On the other hand, she mentioned to me that guys tend to 'take her the wrong way,' so maybe I'm reading too much into it. In any case, I need to get a job first so I can actually take her out on dates. That would be quite useful.

Women are notoriously impatient and indirect in expressing their thoughts. Get that job and take another girl out.

I don't have interest in another girl, and I don't settle for second-best.

you don't have interest because you don't get to learn other women. Get a number or two and invite a girl to lunch or something for some "stimulating conversation."

Let me rephrase what I said: I don't want someone else. I haven't even scratched the surface as to what this woman's all about. I don't even hear about women like her, much less actually meet them. The number of things we share in common is just unbelieveable. Down to us nearly having the same middle name. (Mine being Allan, hers being (pronounced) Alene. I have no idea if that's spelled correctly, but it sounds like that.)

I take this back. Last Sunday, I said I couldn't hear my guitar in the monitor, then she said jokingly "that's not surprising" and grabbed my arm, which she normally doesn't do. I'm still probably reading too much into it. It usually seems that women don't necessarily mean anything just because they make physical contact with you.
(And yes, we play in a band together. She plays bass quite well, and sings beautifully.)

well ok then my question is, how does she normally act around you? Do your friends think she is interested? Does she just treat you like any other of her friends? Does she blush around you? Is there anything that could be a good lead to reveal her feelings towards you?

Laura

I can't tell with her. Normally, I can read body language. She just doesn't seem to give signals one way or the other. I know she smiles when I talk to her (and I do too when we talk), but I actually haven't given it enough attention to know how often she does. I'm going to pay particular attention to these things and see.

k sounds good and post it here. i'm sure we will be able to letcha know if anything she does sounds flirtatious or merely friendly. Make sure to notice how much she might touch you, how she responds to things u do, and body language etc.

Anywho I have this book that says if u have to decipher if a person likes u are not, that's normally a bad sign, but then again u might not be aware of it, because you are too self aware of your own feelings and mannerisms around her, to be aware of how she is towards you. Next time u are with her, take note of how she behaves and then let us know. post it in this thread k.

Laura

So how do I compare how she behaves around me to how she behaves when I'm not around? :p

A stalker finds a way to do that.

I dub thee Creepy McStalker.

Even if you do something for the "right" reasons, you're still crazy.

I'd like to know how watching out for the well-being of someone you care about constitutes as creepy. It's called selflessness, aka altruisitc (agape) love. Even when I'm dog-tired and didn't really want to go by, I do anyway because I put her well-being above myself. See Wolfy's thread, about 3 or four posts down the page.

Obsessively driving by her house does infact land in the creepy category.

Stalker's normally don't realize what their doing is wrong, or in any way odd. They tend to justify their actions by saying it's simply out of affection.

Well duh, of course you feel something for your victim. Otherwise why would you stalk them? No amount of affection or percieved "selflessness" justifies obsessively driving by the girls house on a regular basis.

EDIT: Aaaaand the custom title Jeff gave me completely undermines any judgemental things I say about stalkers. Thanks, you rotten aussie *******!

Right, so I'll just mind my own business and ignore the things that have happened to her. (Read previous parts of thread.)

And just for the record, it's not on a regular basis, nor "out of affection." It's usually if I'm on her end of town. She lives like a mile from my church, and I tend to stay late hours out there some nights when I'm recording. She's invited me over before anyway, it's not like this is someone who doesn't know who I am.

Most stalkers know their victims. That's why they stalk them. Even in the cases of celebrity stalkings, the stalker at least thinks he knows the victim.

[edited: that was a bit over the edge]

*adds Threnody to list of people to kill*

Seriously, if you were right in front of me right now, I would so snap you in half.

[edit: Yay for Flexor!]

You said she invited you over once and you've known her 3 years? I see how you consider her a friend but does she consider u a friend or an acquaintance?

She did say she and her family likes me wants to get to know me better, but I didn't take it as anything. And I've been to her house more than once, just to drop off a song or sheet music that we're going to be playing. And once to practice with her for a song for my mom's wedding.

So then you met her family before as well?

You said she liked you once, what stopped you from liking her then? I'm kinda leaning towards Kieran on this one. If it's been 3 years, even if she did have feelings once, it's a possibility that she's moved on and now u are in the "friends only" zone.

Are you referring to my last post? Because she made that comment only about a month ago. Or were you referring to this:

Which was simple things like she put her arm around my waist once after we were done playing for the night. But other girls have done that that didn't 'like' me (as far as I know), so I didn't really take it as anything at the time. Or she would wink at me (which wasn't something she did only to me, although I'm the only guy I've noticed her wink at.) And I didn't like her at the time anyway. And she doesn't do these things anymore, at least not that I'm noticing.

To elaborate, let me explain how this started. This isn't going to make sense, but one night when we were playing together, the night she taught me to play bass (back when I was first learning to play guitar), I felt something inside me, and had no idea what it was. (I think it had something to do with the way she plays piano. She just plays these beautiful melodies and chord progressions that are just like... I dunno... beautiful is all I can think of. And her voice is just so sweet and innocent sounding, and she does this vocal thing with major 7ths that I just love. And she also writes really good songs.) erm... anyway...

So I kept having this feeling all through the next week or so, and eventually I realized what I was feeling. But the thing was, I didn't want to like her, and tried numerous ways to convince myself that it couldn't work out, or made excuses to myself like "she's older than me." Apparently, I failed to convince myself of this, because in comming weeks, I learned more and more about her (like our age gap wasn't as large as I thought), and eventually, gave up fighting it. (I find it particularly strange to develop a crush before even realizing it, and then trying to fight it off).

So then I accept it as a crush. But only as a crush, and I really didn't act on it too much. Crushes come and go. It was basically "I like her, but oh well." It's just recently, within the last several months or so, that it's become something stronger. And then I remembered another feeling I had way back the first time I talked to her, as if I was speaking with someone 'important' or something. (It was kinda wierd, I'd never figured it out until recently). And we've been talking a lot more in the last several months than we used to (but still not as much as I'd like. :p )

The only clue I have is about 2 months ago, my mom noticed that she kept looking at me and smiling while we were playing, which I'd only noticed once that day. Apparently, she did it several times.

Anyway, I'll be seeing her tomorrow, and I need an idea of something that could be flirtatious (but something not obvious) so I can weigh her reaction to it, and see if she does something in return.

Well all the guys in this post are gonna be mad at me for saying this...but her always smiling at you when u arent looking might be a good sign? When you all talk, what are things you all discuss? Just music? A bad sign would be if she ever discusses her liking other guys with you...that could be a sign that you are in the "friends zone". Do u have any mutual friends? If so that could help ya gain insight into whether or not she only likes u as a friend. Friends know best (most of the time, not all the time)

Um, I guess you could try complimenting her. Tell her she looks nice, and see how she reacts, either way she'll prob. be happy, but it'll either be happy, and then she wont say anything else, or she'lll be happy might blush and then might and that's only a maybe get flirtatious.

The way u can tell if she's flirting is if when she talks to you, she touches your arm or something. If the smiles she gives you go along with the flirtatious eyes girls give. I guess it's kinda hard to explain. Ok u've known her 3 years...from the sounds of it, she taught u to play instruments (maybe a teacher of some sort, that gives private lessons) anywho, in that time have u ever noticed the types of guys she's been interested in? You thought she was dating someone right? What was he like, and why did u think she liked him? These could all be clues into her interests, or where you might lay wrong about her interests in men.

Usually, it's just small talk, or we tell intersting anecdotes about something that happened, or whatever. And of course, music from time to time, although actually not that often.

I thought of something else, too. I had mentioned to her in an e-mail that I like hearing her sing. Now, we usually don't give each other compliments like that, but probably 2 weeks after, I told her I didn't want to lead Wednesday night worship, she said (and I quote) "Personally, I'd hate to see you quit because you do a good job, but it's obviously entirely up to you."

Now truth be known, I suck as a worship leader. So it did grab my attention when she sent me this. But I so desperately hate jumping to conclusions on relationship-related things, because if I'm wrong, I end up looking like a dork. Plus I don't like having a childish mindset of "OMG she leiks meh!" And I think she's the same, which makes it difficult to read body language (as I breifly mentioned earlier). My body language is kinda obvious. Every time she's around, I can't help but look at her. It's like an impulse. (see song lyrics) So then I look like a gaping idiot. (Well, less like gaping and more like a series of quick glances.)

And we don't have any mutual friends, really. So that makes it even more hard to get insight. Grr!

Like I mentioned earlier?
Just bass. And back when it was just her and I playing, she'd play guitar a while, then switch to keyboard, and I'd watch her to learn, then play around on my own later. But that's it.

Because he was hot. :p
Actually, he is our drummer, and they did a lot of stuff together, like going dancing, until he started dating the pastor's daughter and doesn't really seem to spend that much time with her (which opened up time for me to go dancing with her. :D)

That's the only guy I've noticed her ever seem interested in. She's not into the whole dating "loop," she was home-schooled, so probably didn't date a lot in her teen years since she didn't meet a lot of guys. But the thing is, she seems to be cool about the whole thing with him dating this woman, so maybe I'm wrong in thinking she liked him in that way. In which case, I have no idea what she's looking for. All I know for sure is "a Christian guy." Ok. I got that much going on. Along with half the church. So... I've probably got nothing to go on.

Yeah dont jump to conclusions with the worship comment. Although that's good and all, it could've been just merely friendly. That's the sensitivity of the situation, sometimes girls (jsut like men) can flirt and it be just that, friendly flirtation and nothing more. Then again sometimes it is more. You'd have to give me more about her personality. And with the guy you thought she was dating, what's the story behind that? Did u think she liked him because she said she did? What lead u to believe that?

Because they spent *lots* of time together. But like I said, she never compliments me. Not since the first time she heard me sing.

She also called me cool once. I don't know if she was kidding or whatever, but again, I'm not reading into it.

*k sorry I saw this post, only after I posted my previous post*

Anywho, She's never before mentioned liking guys? Do you know any interests she has? (besides her not liking to touch raw meat?) If so you could ask her out on a date to d othat. U said she likes dancing, then ask her out to dance again, then maybe go get a bite to eat. (again something that'd be of her taste). That way you all can talk and get to know each other better. And this whole thing with the guys making physical passes at her, did she tell u that, or did u see it? Anyways, when it comes down to it, it seems like u know some things about her, but you have yet to really establish a friendship with her. Maybe i'm off base, i'm only going on what u have written thus far.

She could either be shy, or not interested. A woman who doesnt compliment or show lots of interest, generally just isnt interested. It's normally pretty easy to tell if a girl likes someone. The way you said your mom saw her staring at you and smiling is a good sign, but could also be just friendly. A lot of this seems like a toss up. When you all went out to dance, how did she act?