I overheard her mention it to someone else, then another time she told it to us all during a band practice. She's obviously not embarassed by it, so I can't understand why she doesn't go to authorities. People like that need to be dealt with. I get uber-pissed when someone makes any sexual gesture or remark or whatever toward her because she's just so darn innocent. (See a few posts back). I don't know. Just the same way she usually does. Except when she was singing on stage, she looked right at me and made some kind of face I can't quite remember. Which is different from anything she normally does. Then I was stupid when she was showing me dance steps and stopped watching her feet and just stared right into her eyes without even realizing it.
Then later on she quit dancing with me. I don't know if she thought I was disinterested in dancing, even though I made it clear earlier when she offered to stop that I was interested. Then we sat at a table and talked for quite a while, then on the last song, she danced with someone else (a former student of one of the band members). That's probably about it.

On a somewhat unrelated note, is it kinda wierd if I get upset when she's upset?

to that one, all I have to say is, if it doesnt bother her, then dont get mad about it. I say only step in if she looks uncomfortable. And when I say "step-in" ask if she's ok. Now only if some guys does something really bad and seems to be forcing her against her will do I say step in. Besides that you said it seems like she doesnt mind. If she doesnt mind then maybe lay back a little. She might see you as the only one who's getting all worked up about it and that could be a turn-off. You gotta learn when it's appropriate to step in and be protector. and if it's not bothering her, then it's not the time to rush to the rescue. Just keep an eye open, but no worries i'm sure she will be fine.




Can you describe the face she made? That could be a good thing or a bad thing. Just depends.



Hm your staring in her eyes isnt bad, question is, was she looking back, cuz if so that could be a good sign. Her dancing with another guy...hmm I'm not sure, that doesnt sound too good.

Upset when she's upset? As in, mad when she's mad, or sad when she's sad? I dont think so, from what I've seen most people who have feelings for one another tend to be affected if the other person is feeling blue etc. But I would take that down just a notch for now, since you all arent dating or anything yet. But no, I would say there is nothing wrong with that.

Well, it was sort of a wide-eyed smile, with a sort of small dance-like thing thrown in briefly, and I sorta did something similar back.
Yes, she was.
It wasn't even someone she knew, and this wasn't like a date, anyway. She went out of her way to tell me that beforehand, which isn't good. She said she didn't want me to think she was asking me out or something. Which I knew anyway.
Like I can feel what she feels. This isn't something exclusive to her. About 5 years ago when I was dating someone else, I kept having this feeling on New Years eve that she was cheating on me. Came to find out it was true, on that exact night. And it's not exclusive to women I'm dating, either. When my aunt was in the hospital having her baby many years ago, I actually got sick to the point that I threw up. When I left the hospital, I was completely fine. It's really wierd.
Not too many people believe me with stuff like that, except for Pagan friends, which is rather ironic. Or I'm just crazy.
But I don't even have to be around her to know if she's upset, and it's kinda wierd for me because I get upset without even knowing why, then later find out she was upset on the same said day or days. That's somewhat different from things in the past.

both of those things are good. I dont understand what you mean by a dance thing though. but her smiling and all sounds like she was happy to see you, whether it be friend like or more, I cant say since obviously I wasnt there. But either way, it's still means she was happy to see you...either as a friend or more.



Her stating that it's not a date is a BAD sign. Maybe she doesnt want u to get your hopes up? And maybe her dancing with another guy was her way of showing u she's single and still looking around at her possibilities of boyfriends. (also not good). Seems kind of like she's stressing she only wants u as a friend, maybe she is aware of your feelings for her




Nah I've heard of things like that. Just sympathy pains. You prob. just get close with people and you tend to react like that. You prob. just dont like seeing people suffer is all.

Has she ever said anything that would make u think she likes you?

This is weird. When a guy describes "signs" he gets from a girls, he is either really optimistic or really pessimistic. From what I've heard, you go back and forth between the two. Anyway, I know a fool-proof way of finding out if she is interested in you or not: Ask her out. If you do it, it will be win-win. If she says yes, then the possibility of two become a couple is a closer reality. If she says no, you will either remain friends or you will both become more distanced over time to the point of no communication and you will get over her. This love/infatuation you have had for god knows how long is not healthy and you need to get it resolved one way or the other.

Like sort of a side-to-side thing with her body. Something simple. And I guess she did do it to me once before, when we were all listening to a song during band practice.

I was going to tell her the same thing, even though I like her. So that may not be the case. When she mentioned it in e-mail, it sounded confusing and I thought that she though I was trying to ask her out. I was actually relieved to hear it was the other way around. I'm not sure why. But this was the same day she told me she wanted to get to know more about me.

We were in a different city, so it doesn't seem likely that she would be looking for a boyfriend there. It's also strange that she waited until the last dance to dance with someone else. She stayed with me the whole time (except while singing). Even when we quit dancing and ran out of things to say, she stayed instead of finding someone else to dance with. She dances with other guys all the time. And here's another interesting thing to note that may pertain directly to this in a big way: Her sister has this sort of "philosophy" (I guess I shall call it) that a guy supposedly finds a woman more attractive when whe's with another guy. So it's at least possible she was following that idea. Unfortunately, it has the opposite effect on me.
On the other hand, my dancing may have just sucked so much she wanted to dance with someone else.
Off the top of my head, I can think of nothing that I would consider as such a thing. I'd probably have missed it if she did because I'm trying not to jump to conclusions. Maybe I can find out something useful tomorrow. I hope.



Now for no reason, here's Mario.

Maybe because she's not giving a clear signal either way, so I'm confused. *shrug*

the mario is cute! well her wanting to get to know you better is a good thing. meh sounds like u both are confusing. just be warned with both parties are confusing, let alone one, if you dont get some straight talking things wont work out.

Do like Kieran says and just ask her out. That way u'll have a yes, and a gf, or a no, and that way u can just be friends and move on. Like u said in another post shes a woman who doesnt like games, so dont play games.

:p
Maybe we're both just complicated and deep and shy. She used to be quite shy, she says, maybe there's still some areas. Oh, well. I have a good feeling. But I'm not a very patient person.

Then why has it been around 3 years?

That's why.
I must've missed this earlier. Where did I say she was OK with it? She gets quite upset, judging on how she reacts to sexual jokes after such an incident, but she just won't do anything about it.
(By that, I mean she takes a little more offense to sexual jokes that don't have anything to do with her.)

Ah, well that point was never clarified. Well what exactly has happened to her, and how exactly has she responded. (and by that I mean, what she's mentioned to friends about it, or how did she look when it happened?)

She takes offense to sexual jokes that dont have anything to do with her? How so? And who does this around her?

So you are saying she seems as if she needs help? Sorry you just have to clarify this a little more for me, just trying to help you out here. U dont wanna jump in, incase she doesnt want that.

No, she doesn't want it. I don't know too many people who would be happy with strangers coming up and groping them. The 'last time' someone grabbed her butt (so it's apparently happened before), she hit him. A more recent thing was when a guy in the parking lot "felt her up." That could mean a lot of different things, but I guess she was afraid to do anything, and just gave him a dirty look. (This is the event I'm talking about below.) Our drummer was (I think) referring to something in a movie about boobs. She said it's not funny to the girl it happens to. A little later, she told what had happened to her the day before, and said that was the reason she said it wasn't funny.
I can't possibly stress just how innocent she is. She doesn't mess around with guys at all, in any way. So it's extremely offensive when stuff like this happens, and I don't take it lightly by any means.

Well being that she's 25, I think it's overdue time that she learns to speak up for herself. I think it's admirable that you are worried about her, but dont blow your lid just yet.

I say (like Kieran said) be honest with her, tell her how you feel. That you care about her etc and see where it goes from there. Is it that you are worried to tell her straight out how u feel?

Okay then, it's been several months. Why have you not done anything if you are impatient? That is too long to torture yourself like this. I think the reason you haven't acted on your feelings, though this is probably obvious, is because you're scared of jeopordizing the friendship bond you have formed with her. It's too much of a risk for you to take. This is a gamble that can have either great loss or great gain, but if you do not take the gamble you are insured to have great loss.

Laura: I didn't say for him to tell her his feelings. I told him to ask her out on a date. There is a thin difference between the two.

Not acting on it can also force you to end up with nothing. All of these feelings for her that you're not acting on can mess you up. She might start resenting the way you look after her so much.

exactly! U are a very smart man dry gear! kudos to you for putting that (this is all sincere). Cuz the point u just made is very true.

And clarifying earlier my bad about the misunderstanding kieran. Dogsrool do as Kieran said and ask her out on a date. Just take action already, sounds like u are just killing yourself wondering what if this, and what if that, just get a definitive answer ya know

Yep. All this time and energy you spend oogling, drooling, and cleaning said drool, could be used in a more productive manner.

She didn't even show up at church, so I didn't get to talk to her or anything.

Comedy 'use the phone' option.

If you've decided to ask her out skip the following, as I have only read the first 2 pages.

ASK HER OUT. NOW. GO. This is getting NOWHERE like this, it will be another 3 years at this rate. It's now or never.

The Motto here seems to be: "make a move....or move on"

When's the next time u'll be able to see her? And when u do, ask her out on a date. stop torturing yourself and get an answer

Next time I see her will be Wednesday night, although I don't know if I'll get a chance to talk to her. Sometimes she comes in late and leaves early. I'm still trying to figure out how to tell her without being a dork... which most likely, I will be.

On the upside, I got a job offer as an accounts payable clerk. I have no idea what that is, or if I'm qualified to do it. $7.50 an hour; not too bad, but not so great either. But definitely good for now.

Ok when u see her wednesday night ask if you can talk to her really quick. and do your thing. tell her she's a cool girl and u'd like to get to know her better and ask her out on a date. If you are too nervous to do that, you could always pull some sort of double date thing, but u'd have to put more work into that. Sometimes groups are better, BUT there's always the chance of getting less one on one time with her if you take that route. Anywho, I wish ya luck. Hope you can get a hold of her and ask her out and that all works out.


Laura

PS Congrats on the job offer

Ah, but I'm broke. Which is a huge part of why I'm not asking her out. And then she's going to Egypt on Jan. 3 for two weeks (something for me to worry about, though I think she'll be fine.) Maybe I should take this job first, ask her out when I can actually afford a date.

Well in the end it's up to u. Do you plan on ever having her hear the song u made about her?

Dont worry about the Egypt thing, she's 25, she's an adult and she should be able to handle herself

Yes. She knows about my soundclick page, and likes my stuff, so she'll stumble upon it sometime soon. But I don't know if she'll realize it's for her. Probably not. But I can drop hints...

yes drop hints, that way you could always judge her reaction to that. See if she seems flattered and flirtatious after that, or if she starts to drop "only friends" hints. Either way it could help push you to ask her out, or to move on. In any case it'd be good, what doesnt kill you, makes you stronger

I'm always suprised that guys think they need a bag of cash for dates. I don't understand where they get that idea.

Because stuff isn't free.
Unless you've got a good idea for a date that costs nothing.

Going for a walk? Getting a cup of coffee?

Two cold-blooded people do not want to go for a walk when it's below freezing.

Gives you a chance to put hte moves on warm her up. Or give her your coat. Dont go overboard though, u dont wanna freak the girl out. (well woman in her case)

You could always borrow a movie from a friend or rent something, get some popcorn something else to munch on and hot cocoa. ya never know. Be inventive

I know from experience
DogSRoOL, just remember not to put her on a pedestal. Don't idealize her, and don't worship her. She's not a goddess, she's a normal person. Make sure you love who she is, not who you think she is. I'm mostly saying this because some of the things you've said have rung a few warning bells, like the way you say she is so innocent.

I have yet to come across a woman that didn't like to be treated in such a way. I've heard from their own mouths that they like it.

Not in my experience. Good God, do they hate being put upon pedestals.
Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Surely most people would agree with me on this.

Depends. What did I say earlier about stereotyping?

They like to have complete control, yes. Dont ever let this happen though or you will be one sad pussy-whipped shell of a man. My best friend did this last year and hasnt been the same since.

Yes, if you want to be cynical, you can say they like being controlling.
But all of the ones I've known have wanted to be treated as a normal person, not a goddess. Otherwise it's not really them who you love, it's a fantasy.

Hardly. If I were to treat her that way, it would be because of who she is, and more importantly because I love her. Love without action is just an empty word. People say "I love you" I all the time, and it means nothing. It's said in deceit, and people go behind and do things contrary to what they say. A hard lesson to learn, but I don't want to fall into the category of putting doubt into the mind of one I care for. With action, there is proof. With words, there isn't.

This usually isn't something that younger girls would understand. And considering most of your ages, I would understand why many girls you've met feel the way you say they do. But when they've been cheated on lots of times, they're going to come to want proof in future relationships. Count on it.