What Avenger said earlier.

Tolerance does not mean support or approval, it just means holding your tongue.

I do not like gays. I think homosexuality is disgusting and wrong, but I don't say or do anything about it (read: I tolerate it) because I can't really rationalize my dislike of it.

As for disciplining a kid over it, that's just as bad. He's a little boy. Little boys need to start crap.

You know what happens to a little kid who doesn't get into trouble? They grow up timid, whiny, and have nerves of jello.

The proper thing to do would have been to let the situation play out - if people get pissed, the kid will get it through his head - "dang, if I say 'gay,' people get really pissed, I'm not doing that again."

The moral of the story is, if kids aren't ever allowed to do anything bad, they won't know why they aren't supposed to act that way.

And they can't have phony, BS consequences like "I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to recommend suspension."

Kids hear that (at least I did) and hear "GOOD! Thanks, see you in a week, hobag!"

In order to learn a lesson, the kid needs to hear "You idiot, you're so STUPID," from his peers or other people who actually affect him on a basic level. People he has to see every day.

This is the most mishandled situation I've heard of in a while, I can only frown on society.
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Duel Zero key count: Zero! Down to guns and forces. Expect a release soon.

[This message has been edited by Checksum (edited December 07, 2003).]

No, the moral of the story is that the kid didn't even do anything bad, other than having two mothers.

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All the prism in the world couldn't make hue.

...EYES![/b]

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
Jack Chick preaches it
NMGOH

I'll chime in with wolfy for another thank you.

A while back, maybe a year or two, we were having a similar debate, except I was arguing the position that Nauree is arguing now. I remember Krokodile posting something insulting about the bible, and I called him on it and he apologized and respectfully bowed out of the debate.
While that alone wasn't the reason I changed my mind about homosexual behavior, I was impressed to see someone treat me with the same respect that he demanded I give gay people.

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All you need is love.

Yeah, I had quoted the fairy-tale statement in agreement, the realized that I was being extremely two-faced and deleted it.

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All the prism in the world couldn't make hue.

I am tolerant of homosexuals, just as I am liars, thieves, adulterers, etc.
Truth doesn't change.
Society may mostly believe that homosexuality isn't a sin, but that doesn't make it true. There are a non-changing set of commandments that dictate our closeness to god. These things don't change, and homosexuality is a sin. It's just like lusting after a woman or not forgiving someone. It's still a sin, and it still hurts you, but society may not feel the same way.

That said, we all obviously have free will, so that's why it's important to be tolerant.

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

lets all just agree that homosexuality is ok and people can do what ever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else.

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Life and death are equally jests
-Poe

^^^ Wow a voice of reason!

Exactly that - I'm not gay, I don't have and probably never will have gay thoughts (though I don't rule it out) - I have many gay friends, male and female - they're good, loyal, honest people and I won't hear a word said against them by someone who doesn't even know them from Adam.

Someone (I think it was Vince V) played the Black/female card - it's exactly that...

"I don't like black people" gets you flamed/banned

"I don't like gay people" should recieve the same treatment for being so very closed minded. If you harbour these opinions I'm fairly sure I speak for most who say they're not welcome here - keep them to yourselves.

For anyone interested (for completeness), I've got no particular religious sway - I'm born RC, never really got into it - have studied a bit of religion and am of the opinion that whatever you believe is your faith to cherish, you're very welcome to it and I hope it keeps you safe and happy - I'm just fairly happy not believeing in any diety that controls this life of mine or my next, should I have one.

My two pennies

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

I think gay men are great, and there should be more of them... That way there would be a lot more single women for us straight guys

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WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!

Homosexuality has been around since roman times (most likely earlier though). However I am not okay with homosexuality for a few reasons with not the least of which was that God said it was wrong... However! putting that aside just for the simple fact this is not the religous discussion forum I will say my second biggest problem with homosexuality... It could quite possibly destroy the human race not only morally but physically. Think real hard before you reply to that one in case you disagree with the physically part.

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"So there I was completely naked and covered in tartar sauce..."

[This message has been edited by Charlie (edited December 07, 2003).]

I sort of agree, but then again I disagree. The way society is today, people who say things like that speak out of ignorance, not malice.

Many gay people on another forum I frequent have said that they did not make the choice, that in fact they'd give anything to be straight.
If it were a simple matter of choice, there wouldn't be so many gay people. No one would want to do something like that which would bring so much hatred upon them.

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All you need is love.

Simply disliking gays won't get you a ban unless you turn that into actively offensive statements against them. Nauree's comments regarding gays and assaults was really dancing that line.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Thankyou mentis
/me celebrates mentis' teching nauree a lesson in modern society

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your curiosity will get the better of YOU one day.
alpha1: winner of the 2003 tfti award.
http://members.shaw.ca/orichan/images/MyArt/Guards.jpg
fear the evil pointy finger of death. yu-gi-oh Dub.

Sounds like a plan!

But seriously, my friend and I were with her mother and her friend, going up to Santa Cruz, in a car for about 45 minuteds (each way).
When we got back to her house, her mom told me that she was a lesbian. (My friend's mom is straight btw, so apparently, hanging out with gay or lesbians do not change your sexyal orientation.)
I had not known that, and I can see why she told me that after her friend was gone, but I have no problem with gays.

The moral of this story is that gays and straights are both human beings, and they demand the same amount of respect we (staright, nobody here has said thay were gay) demand.

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One upon a time a lion ate a whole bull. The lion, feeling full and good after his meal, roard until two hours later a hunter shot him.

Moral: Keep your mouth shut if you're full of bull.

The problem here is that people are putting words in my mouth. I never said "Oh gay people should be beat up because there gay." What I said was that "Gay people over here" Meaning where I live/school/ "Get beat up."

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

Now that i've actually thought of something serious to say:

In my opinion being homophobic is on the same level as being racist. Saying "I dont like gay people" is as bad as saying "I dont like black people" in my opinion.



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WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!

Sexuality and Physical Apperiance are too different things.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

True. But it's still discriminating someone because they're different.

People don't chose their sexuality or their physical apperance (Except Michael Jackson ).

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WARNING: THIS POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF PEANUT!!!

[This message has been edited by TheJkWhoSaysNi (edited December 07, 2003).]

And look where he ended up

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Round and round we go.

Appearance you are born with, sexual preference you are not.

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"So there I was completely naked and covered in tartar sauce..."

That is true.

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All you need is love.

If this was a forum under the laws of australia, you could be banned for saying that because it is coinsidered sexual harrassment to say homophobic things out loud. in short, in australia, you can be homophobic but you have to keep those thoughts to yourself at all times.

note 1: I have only read up to the qouted post

note 2: to the admins, I thiink a temporary ban is in order because this is on the general discussion board and Nuaree seems to be trying to turn this into a debate akin to those on the religious forums.

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your curiosity will get the better of YOU one day.
alpha1: winner of the 2003 tfti award.
http://members.shaw.ca/orichan/images/MyArt/Guards.jpg
fear the evil pointy finger of death. yu-gi-oh Dub.

homosexuality has been around for much longer. The ancient greeks used to have lavious(sp?) parties many nights, they often spent alot of time in ships sailing and having parties at night and living their lives in their democratic government, women were barred from many of these activities, so many Greek's took to homosexuality at these parties and then went home and slept with their wives. I'm sure some did not even have wives.

The Greeks also had an elite military squad know as "The Sacred Band" the entire squad was homosexual, and they only lost one battle in their entire career when i think alexander the great moved into greece. They won every battle because they were gay, they operated on the premise that they were fighting beside their gay lover, and to protect him, you'll fight harder. it worked, they were the best greek warriors ever to enter the battle field.

If we lived back in those days, homosexuality would not be the big hub bub it is today. it would be accepted, because back then it was normal, no one was critsied for their sexuality, no on beat them up be cause they liked men.

If an issue like this could be lived with and accepted 1000's of years ago, why is it such a big problem today?


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Inter arma silent leges

...and then you added "Hey, maby it will put them on the right road and make them rethink and become strait." after it which clearly shows some degree of support for it.


Edit - at this point Alpha1 I don't think he has crossed that line...and besides...I personally feel continuing to discuss the issue with him and perhaps give him pause for thought would be more constructive than chasing him away.

[This message has been edited by Jaiph (edited December 07, 2003).]

Omg alpha1 how much of a noob can you be.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

No one cares about how australia does things Just joking! I swear I didn't mean anything by it... I love australia I really do! Oh now enough of that... But I think the admins can determine this for themselves...
/typed as I'm hauled away to an aussie jail

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"So there I was completely naked and covered in tartar sauce..."

As I said most likely earlier... But thank you for adding to it anyway


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"So there I was completely naked and covered in tartar sauce..."

Murderers are different too. Am I discriminatory because I deny them of their civil rights by locking them up in a cell? Perhaps murderers are just misunderstood. Next, they'll be trying to tell me it's caused by a genetic defect.

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Apparently, a lot less than you can be.



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* Seb goes around singing "I'm too sexy for my body"
* Wolfy goes around singing "I'm too sexy for Seb's body"
* Cave_Demon steals Seb's underwear (underwear stolen: 39)

I can't support my argument anymore because my facts are based apon the bible and since alpha1 just wants to find some excuse to ban me. I think this thread should just be locked.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

so, people with schizofrenia(sp?) choose to act that way. you are basicaly saying that all brains are perfect and people are just doing things like groing realy fast (ie. acromegaly) because they choose to. Talk about ignorant. the braing can be upset by just a small knock to the head if it is in the right place.

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your curiosity will get the better of YOU one day.
alpha1: winner of the 2003 tfti award.
http://members.shaw.ca/orichan/images/MyArt/Guards.jpg
fear the evil pointy finger of death. yu-gi-oh Dub.

...that's one of the poorest analogies I've seen in a long long while. Murder deprives another human of life. Two gay people being with each other has no harmful affect on anyone else.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

No one was talking to you Seb. If you want to start another flame war go ahead. But whats between me alpha and Jaiph is none of your consern.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

" Unless you brainwashed or someone is controling you body Ex: being restrained or something."

Which null and voids your "so, people with schizofrenia(sp?) choose to act that way." comment.

The rest I dont know what you said.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

You have no proof of that at all. That is just your opinion on the matter. Don't go waving around statements that you can't back up. Quoting the Bible is not proof.



Fine, that's your opinion. That's not what people are at issue with. The fact that you, by your own posts, approve of violence against people who are gay. This only perpetuates your own ignorance.

You contadtict yourself with your how "self-control" agrugument. You say people have complete self control of themselves yet you say being around a gay person will rub off on a straight person. Not only is the secong argument completely absurd, it contradicts what you posted before.

While I repsect your right to form your won opinions, I don't not respect people who forulated their opinions out of ignorance.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Flame war? Nah. I was simply referring to the simple "registered Date" fact.

Oh, and if this is between you, Jeff and Alpha, then email yourselves if you don't want any of us to get involved, you know?



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* Seb goes around singing "I'm too sexy for my body"
* Wolfy goes around singing "I'm too sexy for Seb's body"
* Cave_Demon steals Seb's underwear (underwear stolen: 39)

note to everyone but Nauree: i am sorry if this looks like spamming because i am still responding to posts as i find them.

Soooo
let me get this straight, you are a person who has absolutely no automatic functions in your body.

i am so sorry, someone who has to work that hard on manual digestion, iris movements, heartbeat, har growth and other bodily functions that are usualy austomatic is bound to be extremly tired and irrateable.[/sarcasm]

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your curiosity will get the better of YOU one day.
alpha1: winner of the 2003 tfti award.
http://members.shaw.ca/orichan/images/MyArt/Guards.jpg
fear the evil pointy finger of death. yu-gi-oh Dub.

"I was simply referring to the simple "registered Date" fact."

Your equaly as noobish as alpha1. I'v been coming to massassi long before you registered. I'v known massassi since its early days.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.

Making any analogy to homosexuality such as schizophrenia or any other proven fact is like making an analogy of pixie dust and say salt... You cannot prove that pixie dust exists.

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"So there I was completely naked and covered in tartar sauce..."

"You have no proof of that at all. That is just your opinion on the matter. Don't go waving around statements that you can't back up. Quoting the Bible is not proof."

Yes lets go as alpha suggested and move this form to the religion thread considering to me homosexuailty is in the bible.

And as for my complete mental control, im sorry if I didnt claryify myself. I was talking about know from good and bad.

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Gamers forced into direct sun light for first time burst into flames.