The question is not just if games like Battlefront will be editable, but exactly -how- editable it will be and how good will the tools be?

One reason I feel JO/JA never took off editing wise like DF and JK did was that JORadiant blew and by the time a decent editor like GTK supported it many were turned off and moved on. That combined with the fact that the engine is problematic to edit from a SP perspective really limited things.

If any official editor for Battlefront sucks will we just have to hope for some next generation Alexei Novikov to save the day?

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

[This message has been edited by Jaiph (edited February 23, 2004).]

*ahem*



I currently have NeS stuff (including the TACC, shattered, and DSC subthreads), Alternate Stories, the Vision Cycle stuff, Battle for the Nexus, Control of the Force, Genesis: A New World, Ideal Nightmare, and Sith Hell. Beyond that, I have no other ISB threads saved. I have them saved via .txt files of their source, and I have no idea if I've been doing it right. That, and I have no idea where we (the ISB) would move if there were no Massassi. Just to let you know.

As for your reply Brian, got it. While the forums are probably one of the stronger parts of Massassi, I do feel it's not the only thing worth saving, and that Massassi shouldn't be afraid to branch out to other games and such.

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Check out the following stories over at the Interactive Story Board:
The Never-ending Story Thread or visit the new webcomic version!
The Vision Cycle series
Featured Story: The Darkside Chronicles

[This message has been edited by Gebohq (edited February 23, 2004).]

How about Republic Commando? Unreal engine (I think.)

Anyway, I feel that JO/JA didn't create a "hype" because it uses an old engine. There isn't as much to "discover" like in JK imo.

I should shut up now...

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)
-----@%

DEATH, TO THE DEMON ZERO!!

/eXistenZ

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MadQuack on Military school: Pro's: I get to shoot a gun. Con's: Everything else.
"I'm going to beat you until the laws of physics are violated!!" ! Maeve's Warcry

RIP -MaDaVentor-. You will be missed.

[This message has been edited by happydud (edited February 23, 2004).]

Its not to say i don't think Massassi will last longer. It might, and its not like I have some motive to have this place closed down.

There are many times when things are bought above their value... It may be worth more effort to keep this place up than its actually worth, but that doesn't mean that if people don't want it to stay alive that we should kill it.

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To myself I surrender to the one I'll never please.
But I still try to run on.
You know I still try to run on. But it's all or none.

Eddie Vedder

Oh, wow. I saw that movie once, about a year and a half ago on sci-fi, and have never heard of it again till now. It was a good movie, too, if you're into the abstractness of it. Oh, well. just wanted to say how odd it was to suddenly see a refernce to it after all this time.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW

I would hate to see Massassi go. I spend my whole time online at these forums. I feel like I know the people here. Whenever a new JK level is posted, I download it (my computer isn't good enough for JO/JA). I'd have nowhere to go if Massassi went down. The only place I can even think of is... the Adult Swim forums... oh God... Massassi cannot die.

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My Daily Ramblings
"This world is made of love and peace!"
"Let's live today, let's live tomorrow, and let's live the day after that, even if it means living in eternal pain."
- Vash the Stampede

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

[This message has been edited by Flexor (edited February 23, 2004).]

Flexor
Administrator

Ahh, that's better!

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I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike

It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash

*slips a 20$ bill in SAJN_Master's pocket*

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

*grin*

No, but in all seriousness, I am keeping that money

No, but in all seriousness, Flexor would make a great Administrator. He is nice, (even to me, wow!) he is fair, kind, (Makes badass music) He has contributed so much to this community, not only his humor, but his levels, his EVERYTHING! It would be a sin to see him not an admin. (Same goes for Wolfy... /opens pocket)

Brian, you have done so much for this community, I think we could trust you will $100,000! $300 or more, we know you will use it for the site and not your own personal needs.


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I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike

It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash

And if you ever did use it for personal needs, we'd find you and casterate you with a rubber band.

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Checksum: I thought about it, I guess I'm striving for my own personal ideals. I'll just project those ideals onto Jesus and say "I'm trying to be like Jesus" so that I won't have to listen to you banter endlessly about me worshipping a false god or some such.

The Last True Evil: Ironically, that's very Christian of you.

We will cut down your "Mighty Tree" Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiith.....A herring! *dramatic chord*

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I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike

It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash

Heh, this other forum needed a whole new server and needed like 8000 bucks... what they did was shut down the forum and had a link to a donation page and how much was needed before it would come up again.

The $8000 came in like 2-3 days with donations ranging from $0.01 and $300.

Now, I guess this community is much smaller and fulla kids but $300 bucks isn't that much so this tactic could work.

This place is aight from my short time here... its pretty cool to discuss stuff with people so different from me.

I think changing this place from a "G" rating would help too. "PG-13" at least would be fine... if you're so concerned about people under 13 comin here you could have a warning before enterin the site that says its PG-13.

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My Tracks

We actually aim for a PG rating. but not a movie PG more of a TV PG.

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I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike

It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash

*Crawls out of the deep dark dungeons of the ISB at the behest of Geb, into the horrible, burning light of the General Discussion Board.*

I really, really, really hope and pray that Massassi survives. Massassi was where I met all my online friends, with whom I now collaborate with upon various works of varying seriousness. I'm mainly an ISBer here, but I do lurk about the other forums frequently, and even download the occasional level that catches my eye. Heck, I even occasionally attempt to do a JK level or two, though to date I've yet to complete one.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is if Massassi were to be gone, there would be a fairly sizeable chunk of life missing. Massassi is a very good thing. And anything that keeps Massassi alive is okay in my book. Do what ya hafta do.

*Krig returns to the dark depths of the ISB and his precious, precious NeS...*

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"Well, it could be worse -- it could be windy!" -popular Canadian saying.

/hug Krig_the_Viking

You my friendly viking are awesome. The king of voices.

/gives Krig a sticker

It's okay to post here, most of us don't bite.

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I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike

It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash

You cant let Massassi die. It's the only thing that keeps me editing... i love to edit, but without a editing community for me to show of my work, it seems somewhat pointless. I would be willing to do most anything to make this community survive.

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"The quality of the levels you make is determined by the skill of the person not by the editor in which they use!"
-Michael Kyle

The Arcane Sith

Kirby, Cool Matty - Why didn't you guys mention this?

Anyway, I run http://www.out-post.net a small Hosting company that has recently been on the Grow. I *can* handle Massassi on my server (or servers if need be).

I think I can work out a deal of some sort with you Brian, send me an email at hosting@out-post.net with your ICQ # or some such

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Web Hosting! Lookie here!
http://www.out-post.net/index.php?action=hostingplans

Add 106 to my post count for my old name NapoleoneXIV

If the worst came to worst, I would be willing to host the massassi forums at Pwizard.com.


My web host is beyond reasonable-- I pay $8.95 per month annually. (hostmysite.com)

I have plenty of server space as well as all the bandwidth I could ever need, so why the hell not? .

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Most people regard me as the dark and immoral side of Massassi. At least I'm getting what I want out of life.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited February 23, 2004).]

To be totally honest Bri, I've lately been feeling that there's not much to say. JK Editing is essentially dead (just take a look at JKA, for instance.. little interest). We've got a bunch of people making levels that no one plays.

So pretty much, we've got a small community and a bunch of really old worthless editing stuff. So what's the solution in this case?

I actually think it's time to branch out from Star Wars, into other games. Different "Channels" of Massassi, if you will. I really loved Serious Editing in its glory days, for instance. But if there were maybe different frontpages and editing places for a few select games with a unifyed community, that could be cool. Think Gamespy, without the evil.

There are alot of cool games out there, and alot of them will be showing up soon (stalker, farcry, sw games, bf:v, doom3, hl2, etc). On the other hand, this community tends to disregard things that require new PCs. However, with new channels to massassi, there could be possibilities for new visitors.

As for electing people and democracy and all that... its all fine and good on paper, but implementation will be a ton more difficult than you think, and the general direction of the community may take a nosedive for it.

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Ω of 14

Oh, and regarding cost: people may say they will donate now, but considering a majority of Massassi's visitors are teens, I wouldn't expect much other than $0. Talk is easy, donation is harder.

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Ω of 14

I shudder to think at who people in the community would elect as mods. I really don't think that's a very good idea.

I'd be happy to contribute to keep Massassi alive, but my ability to contribute monetarily would be limited (mostly because Paypal hates Canadians).

Guess there's only one way to find out for certain, right?

If Massassi were gone, where would we go?

Possibly someplace where we could live lives.

if you kill massassi a clone of the chat will be up on every single server

really letting it die isn't as bad a thought as it used to be...
but i love the community driven idea, sounds like a good project
(and you know i'm behind you 100% and i'd definetely contribute my skillz if you needed them, Bri)

*checks wallet* I guess I could drop in $10 or so if i remember to shove the cash out of my sight so i don't use it before donating

i think oS is mostly right on all the points he brought up... but that doesn't mean it's not worth a try.

and here's a big cheer for Bri, Kedz, blu, Slug, Archi, JBF, kak, oS, etc etc (all the old school admins... and the new ones too
you guys made a great community... we, the members, have reaped great benefit (despite the troubles) from all the hard work.

best solution to the kind of troubles we face now is to get members involved, just like you've suggested.
that way trolls stay away because it's too much hassle to get enough respect to spam the forums up. (something like that)

whatever happens, Brian still has my soul (=

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why is a raven like a writing desk?

Brian. I already have a PayPal account and would gladly donate to keep the site alive. The majority of us who would help pay are those who have been here through most of the site's lifespan and have credit cards now to help out. You set up the site and I'll donate to the cause.

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-=I'm the wang of this here site, and it's HUGE! So just imagine how big I am.=-
1337Yectiwan
OSC Returns!!
10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On

I, for one, would shrivel up and die.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Here are some nostalgic images from 2001, just because I can.




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Ω of 14

[This message has been edited by oSiRiS (edited February 23, 2004).]

*sigh* as much as I hate it.

I agree with oS.

However, you must realize that $100 a month would mean that 10 people would have to donate 10 dollars every month in order to keep the site alive. If we stockpile more than that, it shouldn't be too hard. We would deffinitely need to have a visual graph of the location of our funds. If the sum drops too low, those who donate do so. I don't honestly believe that there are only 10 people here who would donate. So it isn't like the same people would *have* to donate every month. But I would gladly give 5 bucks a month to keep things up. 10 every once in a while. It's just a matter of finding everybody else who would actually pitch in.

As for branching out. I agree there too. I don't like the reviewing idea because OSC focuses on reviewing (once we complete our script that is), but I do agree that we should have a more gamespyish community. One bigass forum with a ton of content on the site to supplement.

Democracy will kill our community. Allow us to vote on admins, yes, but have the final decision be up to Brian.

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-=I'm the wang of this here site, and it's HUGE! So just imagine how big I am.=-
1337Yectiwan
OSC Returns!!
10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On

For me at least, the focus of massassi has shifted almost entirely to the forums and chat. So if it comes to the stage where Massassi has to be closed, I think keeping the community alive should be a high priority.

Now, as community-driven rankings...

At first glance it may seem like a good idea, but there are some major problems with the idea which stem from the principles of emergence.

I've read a lot about how sites like Slashdot came to be community-driven rather than run by a select few members of staff. A key number kept popping up, for a well-maintained community-driven site you need a minimum of about 50,000 members. 50,000 is the threshold at which it becomes practically impossible for appointed staff members to keep things under control, this is also the number of users at which Slashdot was completely restructured into it's current form.

Massassi forums have about 4,000 registered users, about 500 of whom are active. This isn't enough for community-driven order.

I would suggest a feature in user-profiles where you can suggest a member to be a moderator of a certain forum, if a user reaches a certain number of recommendations an email is sent to the existing admins and moderators for consideration. Admins would be appointed the same way as they are now.

1. Yes.

2. It depends on money. But I think the answer would be more on the No-side.

3. See 2.

4. Don't know, I've liked the way it is. [jk]me as admin[/jk] Seriously, I like the system how it is now, but I won't stand against (possible) changes.

5. For the things I can do (level reviewing, moderating comments , don't know can I do the other things with my computers at the moment), I'd love to.

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<landfish> FastGamerr > Satan

I agree with blujay, we should never kill off Jedi Knight. Add in new stuff if you will, but don't take a way from the old. We all love Jedi Knight. Heck, we at least have to wait around long enough to see another Dark Tempest or Laboratory!

And how can Massassi be dead? Well, look at all the people who responded to this post! And as for search engines, I can find Massassi really easily whenever I'm looking for Star Wars stuff. Besides, last time I heard we had a bout 10,000 members and we'd had millions of visitors since the site's inception in '98. We may not be making a profit, but we're certainly not a fish out of water.

Even if it takes funds, I can't imagine anyone here who is serious about Massassi is going to let it die without a fight.

It sounds like most people are interested and many are willing to contribute (monetarily or more importantly, with content/etc.). I will finish the scripts and within the next 3 weeks buy a hosting account. The hosting account looks like it will be 110/month. I will open a donations thing at that point. I already have to pay 20/month for my business interests hosting (it's a reseller account). I will move those to the new dedicated server and subtract that 20 from the 110 per month massassi needs. Therefore, massassi needs 90 a month. I am willing to contribute half of that to keeping massassi alive. I think we can get $45 in donations per month. If it goes about 3 months and we don't, I'll explore other possibilities.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Rest assured that this thread won't be forgotten. I am implementing cool new features and I will be sure to keep the community in mind as I develop them.

And there was much rejoicing (yey).

*tear*

This is why we love Brian.

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WOOSH.
-----@%

So what does this mean in the way of downtime? And there is an all important question I would like to ask. Can we PLEASE keep the forums looking the same, but go to something that isn't dated like this? UBBv5.x is HORRIBLE...

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-=I'm the wang of this here site, and it's HUGE! So just imagine how big I am.=-
1337Yectiwan
OSC Returns!!
10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On

Three letters for ya...

IGN

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To think that once I could not see beyond the veil of reality, to see those who dwell behind. I was once a fool.

1. Is there enough here at Massassi that's worth our time and effort to save?

Yes.


2. Would you personally be willing to donate every once in a while to keep the site up?

Sure, assuming I can find another job.


3. If we had a program to only allow donations up to 3 months hosting in advance, would you be more willing to donate...

I dont see why that would be neccessary. We all trust you, Brian, we would never accuse you of "stealing" from such a fund.


4. Would a more community-driven site be a good idea? Would you rather "elect" moderators in some fashion instead of me/us appointing them?

This is a bad idea.

How do I put this lightly . . . Most Massassians couldnt handle the power. The vote would be abused from the start, and we'd instantly have a swarm of n00b troll admins running around. While I dont doubt your coding skills - quite the contrary - its Massassi that I doubt. The traditional method will have to stick...

Actully, I think the opposite should be enacted. A feature I have in my own forum, called "trolldom". If a user is spamming or trolling, a mod or admin can 'demote' the user to "trolldom". Their userlevel changes to "troll" and they lose a great deal of their privliges. Almost like a ban, but they can still post, unless the topic starter has ecplicitly forbade them form doing such when the thread was started. The branding can be lifted later after they have redeemed themselves...

Granted, such a feature could not be achieved with the current forum . . . a new forum would have to be written. And with that, other features could be implemented . . . features like persistant site-wide logins...


5. Is there anything you'd be willing to do on a regular basis for Massassi in order to help us survive. Posting levels, news, level reviews, moderating comments, etc.?

The phrase "moderating comments" made me think of Slashdot, which is a very good model, IMO, but thats not the question... Sure, Id post levels, news, anything. Id even set up a Windows box and review levels.


Ill echo whats been said about the content . . . JK is past its last legs, unfortuantly, and the JO/JA series never got popular enough. Massassi will have to start hosting maps/mods for other games. Games which arent neccessarily withing the lexicon of Star Wars. This isnt anything new or bad - Serious Sam definatly didnt have any Tatooine farm boys with lightsabers glowin, Old Jedi Masters with dusty robes flowin, or Trashcan shaped droids who twitter and ping...

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The future is here, and all bets are off.

A forum solution is in the works. Give it time.

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Ω of 14