Im sorry if i'm about to offend you, but Mormons piss me off. Yes, in case you havent figured it out, I am pissed at the moment. Some friggin lady called for my sister while I was on the phone (Long distance to my gf, I might add). She sounded very suspicious, but I gave my sis the phone. She went into her room and locked the door, but me being me I listened through the door to my sister talk. She was saying stuff like "Ummm why?" and "Umm, whats this about?" My sister is 15.

I tapped on the door, she opened it and I asked who it was. She said "Andy, I dont know who this lady is but she is really freaking me out! She says she is from the Mormon temple and says she has a present for me and she wants to come over to our house right now, she has our full name and phone number and everything!"

My sister was realy scared, I guess one of her Mormon friends gave the church all our family information and phone numbers and stuff so they could call with their propaganda and try to take advantage of young people (like my sister) and try to convert them. My sister was so scared she didnt even want to talk to her anymore so she just gave me the phone.

I said "Who the hell is this and what do you want?" She said that this was "something between her and Darcy." I said "bull****, she is a minor and nothing is between you and her."

I said "Darcy does not want to talk to you right now, she is not interested." She then asked why she was talking to me and not Darcy, she said "Can Darcy no longer speak? Did you do something to her, is she alright?" "I said no, she is perfectly fine and she is not interested in your cult"

She then asked "Is there a reason Darcy does not want to recieve a gift from her friend Erin??" What a trap. A gift from her friend? Using her friend's name? I could not believe my ears. I said "I have to go, I have long distance on the other line." She asked if she could call back and talk to Darcy again. I said "No way". Then she said "Who am I speaking to?" I said "Her older brother". She said "Oh, how are you doing tonight sir? What is your name?" I said "I gotta go, bye" and hung up on her.

What persistant bastards! Not only was she scaring the **** out of my little sister, trying to get our address so she could come over to our house and give us a free book of mormon or some bull**** propaganda video, but when I took the phone and said leave us alone, she tried to hit me up with the crap! Grrr, these people anger me. This isnt the first time its happened either.

[/rant]

Sorry if i've offended you.

That's justified anger. If she calls back, that's a count of harassment.

That's not a problem with Mormons. That's a problem with telemarketers. And no one likes them.

telemormons

<3

Don't be mad at mormons, be mad at telephone solicitors like that. I have mormon friends--they're alright, even if their religion is a little ****ed up.

I suppose your anger is justified. I am a member of the LDS church and I find that sort of thing a tad out there.

They are called referrals, and what happened is one of her friends got a card and wrote her information on it because she thought she would benefit from what the church has to offer. It is not malicious; in fact it is done with quite good intentions.

You may not believe in what that church believes, but they are not doing it to harm or annoy. They genuinely are trying to help.

Regardless, I can understand why you are annoyed.

But look at it from the perspective of someone who with all of their heart wants to help you achieve salvation.

Hopefully you read it through for understanding.

[Addendum-

I have been a member of this church my whole life. so I can not see clearly with the perspective of one who hasn't. Will you please tell me what is "effed" up about it?]

The Book of Mormon is full of historical errors. Other than that, the only objections I have are moral, and therefore not significant.

Agreed, if you are referring to horses. What else?

Nothing that really strikes me any more "effed up" about Mormonism more than any other religion or faith. I think some people use "effed up" because they don't understand it and find it too strange for them.

People like this are one of the reasons I've grown to dislike organized religion. Sure, they have good intentions, but they just can't take a hint. And I'd like to state that I am a Christian, before anyone starts trying to push religion down my throat.

What the hell are you talking about? Of course its a problem with mormons, not telemarketers. This was much more personal than any other telemarketer, plus its ALL done by the mormons. Im talking about the fact that they have that whole policy with the referalls and all that crap. Just the fact that they even do that pisses me off.

The same thing happened to ME a couple years back, one of my friends did one for me. I wasnt home and my dad answered the phone. The caller ID said Church of LDS so my dad knew something was up when they asked for me by name. He asked "What is this about" and the lady said "This is between Andy and me". My dad said "Bull****, Andy is a minor and anything between you and him is something between you and ME".

Dont they realize that all this does is get people angry and even more pissed off at the mormons and even cause a dislike for the family/friends that submitted our names? I know i'd get angry at one of my friends if they did this to me, as I was back then and as we are right now with the current incedent.

- The many cities supposedly built hundreds of years ago in North America, yet no remains have been found, while most of the cities in the Bible have been found (or at least their remains have been found)
- The fact that the plates were translated from a language that doesn't exist (or isn't recognized), and that Smith couldn't have possibly known
- Leprosy being rampant in the 1st century AD when it wasn't known in North America until the 18th century

I can't remember much more than that, I did a research project on the Mormon religion a few years ago. You might want to check out Mark Twain's analysis of the Book of Mormon also.

How is that any different than what a telemarker for any random company would do?

Hahaha, come now, Kieran. You live in Utah for god's sake. You of all people should know it's a Mormon problem, not a "telemarketer" problem.

Shintock, you're forgetting the largest discrepancy of all. The Book of Mormon claims that people of Jewish origin inhabited the Americas, and that the descendants thereof are Native Americans. DNA evidence suggests that Native Americans are all largely Asian, and no trace of middle-eastern DNA has been found among the Native Americans.

What bothers me more is the moral hypocrisy in the Book of Mormon.. don't even get me started.. trust me.

Damn, how could I forget that?! :p

I have been lurking here for a long time and this thread was just the right one to pull me out of my comfort zone. Y'see, I used to be a Mormon. I can fully understand why you would find their recruitment tactics to be annoying, I live in Salt Lake City for Gods sake. I think you did the best thing in your situation. You need to be forcefull and mean when trying to get them to leave you alone, I had to learn this as someone who turned my back on the church. I don't mean to be an ***, but I dont like having people tell me what to believe. Anyway, good luck with that.

No, I don't know, so please explain it to me. I have never encountered a problem with mormons. I have gotten missionaries at my door, but I politely say that I am not interested and they go away. I have found more positives in mormons and their possible influences on the rest of us than negatives, and I'm an atheist.

And the initial situation in dash_rendar's post is no different from any other telemarketing situation. For instance, a few weeks ago I was called up by a Navy recruiter. He asked for me by name, and I know he had my address not only because he was a telemarketer for the government, but because I had gotten, and still get, floods of Navy promotion pamphlets. I politely said that I was joining the Army instead. He continued to say how the Navy could benefit me better and wanted to make an appointment for me to come in. Instead of boiling over that someone dare call me and try to persuade me to look into whatever it is they are selling, I politely said I was not interested but if I ever had a question I would contact the Navy. We both said goodbye and hung up. I did was not passive and allowed him to bully me into something I didn't want but I wasn't so aggressive that I attacked him for causing me a minor annoyance, even though he was being polite about it.

Hebedee:

You should watch the South Park episode on Mormons.

I thought they were making it up on what Mormons believed and the history of it.

Then someone told me that what was in the episode was true.

Crazy man...just crazy

Kieran, a sales pitch for some random product is one thing, but some arrogant person calling me up with the intent to change my entire belief system is not welcome. It is not tactful, it puts people in a tight spot, and doing this to minors should be illegal, if it is not already, for the reasons given above.

I am not aware of any other religion so hell-bent on getting converts as the Mormons. They come off as quite desparate, which leads me to believe they're only in it for the 10% of your money you have to give to them if you sign up. If you think that what Dash_Rendar described in his original post is a norm for all telemarketers, you are sorely mistaken. This woman would simply not take no for an answer. Dash had to just hang up on the woman in mid-sentence because she must not have understood that it's arrogant to suggest that she has a superior belief system to Dash. Driving a 15 year old girl to tears? Is that really something "the only true church on earth" should be doing?

This is the telephone equivalent of offering children candy out of the back of your van. Not exactly comparable to telemarketing.

Ok... confusion aside, how does it make sense to dislike an entire group or whatever because of what a few members do? As a Muslim once pointed out to me, if there is one error found in a document, book, or whatever, it throws the entire thing into question, no matter how small the error. I agreed.

Then you'd best be very scared for the Bible.

That's pretty stupid, if you ask me. Especially when it's a book assembled the way holy books are, passed down via word of mouth etc...

I've yet to see someone who seriously studied the flaws of the Bible. Everything I've seen is apparently researched by people who think the Bible was written in English. Also, they failed to understand some pretty basic elements of Christianity, such as NT in contrast to the OT.

If you think you can do better, be my guest.

If you're a Bible literalist, then the Bible basically points out its own flaws. Mana from heaven? There's a flaw. However, if you're not a literalist, then it becomes much harder to find flaws, because mana falling from heaven could mean any possible number of logical things.

I don't really even know what mana is... in regards to Christianity anyway. That aside, the problem usually isn't that people take the Bible literally, but that they take it too literally. I.E. I take Genesis literally, *but* not literally as in word-for-word, but as in a seriously dumbed-down scientific account for people who received it in a day when little to nothing was known about science.

Then there's parts that if you take literally, they have a different meaning from one language to the next. Or where contradictions disappear if you look at the Hebrew, because some Hebrew words simply don't exist in other languages (such as translation of the word "foundation" in some verses, where in Hebrew it's a specific word relating to the foundation of God's kingdom or something like that. I don't remember exactly).

I could go on and on, but you see what I'm saying.

Anyway, let's not turn this thread into a Bible debate. I don't think that was its purpose.

I never said it had to be welcomed. I didn't welcome the Navy guy. Being welcoming and polite are not the same thing. And if someone is so insecure about their beliefs that someone soliciting them about another religion over the phone puts them in a "tight spot", that puts the depth of their faith in serious question.

From the sounds of it the only one that gave a definitive no was dash, and that was after things turned hostile.

Oh yes, how arrogant for people to say that what they believe in is truth instead of saying it is false and they are only doing it for the sunday masses.

It's the solicitors fault that his sister couldn't just say no and hang up?

The church was going to kidnap her, possibly rape her, and then kill her?

And I thought Jehovah's witnesses were annoying, man that's just creepy. Wonder if that woman ever got recruits by offering candy from out of a van... From what you quoted, that woman sounded like something the Borg would make.

I've never heard of that referral thing, but it seems like a huge invasion of privacy- especially if you don't want to take up religion at that time. I mean if you're willing to look into it that's cool, but I think it's pretty rude for someone to sign you up to something emotionally-personal without your permission.

Mana was what god fed the Israelites with when they were wandering in the wilderness. Supposedly a kind of "bread" that fell from the sky every night. But you see, if you take it literally, it makes no sense. So you've got to take into account translation errors and symbolism to get a logical interpretation. Basically, I agree with you. The Bible shouldn't be taken literally always.

Kieran, it's obvious that I'm biased (being exmormon and all), and you sound quite biased as well in favor of this practice (and Mormons in general). How in the hell this came to be, I'll never ever know. After all, you're an athiest surrounded by Mormons in Utah. How you could actually have positive feelings for the Mormon church is beyond me. Just.. wow.

It's a very common practice in the world of business and even on the internet. Companies sell client numbers and e-mail addresses to other companies. That's how spam and junk mail were created.

The main person that could be at fault is the girl who gave the referral, but I doubt she had bad intentions when she did it.

I'm not in favor of it. I just don't care if they do it because it isn't harming anyone more than that person is allowing themselves to be harmed. I don't think in terms of pro/con. I think in terms of unharmful/imposed harm

Can we sell sex over the phone, too? PLEEEEEZE!?

oh wait...

Fair enough. The problem is, some people are bigger doormats than others. If you couple a person like that with such an intrusive and pushy organization, bad things are bound to happen.

Mormons are strange...

That's quite disturbing.

Hopefully they won't bother you again.

Seriously though, mormons are the creepiest kids on the block.

But I do have some questions for the Mormons on this board...

1. Can you, or can you not drink hot drinks (or is it just coffee)?

2. Can you, or can you not eat chocolate?

3. How can you take yourself seriously when the founder of your religion was a known occultist, womanizer, and social deviant?

Jehovah's Witnesses are far more scary.

I wrote a 9-page paper on why Mormons and Jehovahs witnesses are full of crap for my new testament class last year.

It does take a Christian perspective, but even if you're not christian, you can basically see how mormonism and jehovahs witnesses, which basically result from christianity, (or came after it) are full of it. The christian texts say certain things, and jehovahs witnesses perceive these things in ways that are waaaayy off the map. I mean just comparing what J. Witnesses believe and their sources can show that they're full of it.

Mormons...well. The bible says "no more books after this" and the mormons wrote anotehr book. Yet they claim the bible is a part of their religion and their "third book (of mormon)" is just a revision. It's an oxymoron.

Jehovahs witnesses believe in stuff like "blood transfusions are evil" and "jesus didn't die on a cross, but a pole." Even if you're not christian...I mean I think it can almost obviously be deduced that they are full of crap.

Mormons...are...stupid. I won't go into the 9-page details.