Exactly, mr. Veger

Just like the Jewish texts say certain things, and Christians just completely ignore them or perceive them in way that are way off the map?

Whatever a religion's faults, it's a bit dumb to criticise it for being different to the religion it spawned off; if it wasn't different, it wouldn't be a separate religion.

And that telemarketer the OP talks about is a real jerk.

Sigh.
1.) It's just tea and coffee. 2.) CHocalate is perfectly fine. I don't see where you'd get that idea.



Where are you getting your information? I can see where you'd get womanizer, but occultist? You mean the fact that he claimed to talk to God? Considering pretty much every religion is based on someone claiming to have some relationship with God I think that you'd have a problem with all religion.



Show me where it says that. It seems like that 1/4 of my Sunday School lessons (Mormon ones) are about how the Bible is in keeping with the Book of Mormon and other testaments.


Also, this whole problem is not a problem with Mormons. (Or it shouldn't be.) This lady was way out of line if she made your sister cry. I admit, there are some wierd Mormons. Furthermore, the referral system isn't supposed to work without you knowing about it, IIRC. You (the Mormon) are supposed to talk with your friend and see if they want to learn more, and then call the missionaries.

The quotes I've found stating that there is to be no more after the Bible are pretty much dependent upon if you believe the speaker is referring to the Bible and not the specific book within the Bible; if you don't believe that, the quotes can[/b] be interpreted differently.

And thank you, SMOCK!, for clarifying the process of these referrals. It's nice to know that there exists a sense of propriety in the system, even if not all of its members do not exercise it.



Shouldn't it be the other way around? That the Book of Mormon is in keeping with the Bible?

Ok. The chocolate thing came from me being on a European trip and about half of the group was from a mormon church or something and a couple of the girls in their group were going to buy some chocolate and their leader saw them and yelled at them. Logic says they were probably on a diet or refraining from chocolate in a Lent like fashion, but my brain says it's because they're creepy.



Well of COURSE they would say that. That's just like me giving you $5 in quarters and telling you I gave you $20 every day I see you.

Occult connections with Joseph Smith...

he is widely reported to have used seeing stones, divining rods, amulets, incantations, and seances.

And no, people that claim to talk to God are just cooky anyways, but people who are into the occult are in a whole different category.

Oh, and I skimmed through this mainly because it had a funny name but it did bring up some interesting points about the connection between Mormonism and FreeMasonry.

I remember when a Jehovas witness came round to our house once. My mum (who is a christian) spent about an hour explaining her faith to her :p None have come since.

It's done all the time. I see advertisements on the TV late at night. Even then they say only people 18+ and older.

In which case it is not a persons or organizations fault. It is the fault of circumstance.

1. Of course mormons can. It's caffiene that is discouraged, but it is not outlawed by the church.

2. Yes mormons can. I have never seen or heard anything against chocolate.

3. Repentence?

It really disturbs me how people can outright classify an entire religion(no matter what it is) as stupid. Either those people are only experiencing the bad seeds that exist in every religion, culture, organization, etc, or they just feel the need to be complete ***holes toward others to make themselves feel more secure in their beliefs. You know, kind of how like the bully picks on others to make himself feel better. A rational person would even be able to understand radical Islamism or satanic cults if they took the time to learn about it insted of spouting off incendiary ridicules as a conditioned response. Too often do people mix disagreement and conditioned hatred in many aspects of life.

Judaism != Christianity

But now you're generalising all bullies! :p What about the ones that just beat people up for their money?

But yeah, on topic, despite my misgivings for the mormon religion (or is it denomination? whatever.), I'd not say here of all places 'I think mormons are all stupid' or other such bollocks, because it's not the done thing.

Though I will say it's odd how mormons used to be able to have >1 wife, because Blokey at the Top (TM) said so, and now you can't, because he changed his mind.

*Shrugs*

From what I understand He never changed his mind. In order for Utah to become a state, the mormons had to drop the practice of polygamy, which they did.

Actually IIRC, Smith was against polygamy, and it became an element of the religion after his death. But I think you're right, that it is frowned upon now.

Insta-posted!

What is "IIRC"? That has been bugging me for a while that I don't know what it means.

"If I remember correctly," or at least that's what I think it is. :p

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IIRC&r=f

if i remember correctly :p

Bah! Now I've been insta-posted!

And here I've been using the whole phrase. Silly me.

Man, three posts all at the same time.

Damn straight, I Dont like Jehovas at all , my best friends mum being one

Shintock, it did not start after Smith's death. Smith was a polygamist, but even worse, he was a polyandrist (marrying someone else's wife). His youngest wife was fourteen years old. If you don't believe me, you can look it up on the Mormons' own geneology website. Of course, it wasn't an accepted practice in the religion at the time, so he tried to keep it secret. Most Mormons believe he was martyred, but he was actually involved in a gunfight during which he fired a number of shots himself, after trying to illegally shut down a newspaper which published an expository on Smith's questionable practices.

I suppose, as a Mormon, I can not possibly be an expert on this, but keep in mind that propaganda appears both for and against religions.

The fact that this "firefight" happened in a jail where he and his brother and other leaders of the church were incarcerated leads me to believe that it was not exactly the equal ground you are suggesting.

About polygamy. There are laws provided from God at certain times based on the abilities of the people. Devout Mormons believe that the Law of Consecration will come into effect when Christ returns to Earth, which is sort of like socialism except more divine I suppose.

This law, like the law that Jesus Christ provided in replacement of the Law of Moses, will be better fit for the circumstances of the times it has been inacted.

Polygamy is the same way. It is a law which god can, as he pleases, inact and abolish as he pleases. During the time that polygamy was permitted, there were dozens of widowed wives whose husbands had been killed from whatever scourges came upon them in their travels (violence, weather, etc.). God then allowed these women to be spouses to men who already had been wed in order to allow them to survive and be able to help their children survive.

When the United States ordered that polygamy stopped, not only was it illegal to allow polygamy, but it was no longer prudent or necessary due to the establishment of their cities in Utah. So, without regret, the leadership of the church declared polygamy to no longer be a practice of the religion.




Now everyone keep in mind that I am agnostic. I am still searching for truth, but these are the facts about the religion I have been raised into. I have researched carefully, and yes, I have read that saints alive site.

The fact of the matter is no matter what you read it will have bias. In religion, there is no unbiased source.

Ne'er a truer word spoken on these boards.

religion sucks. it never holds you up. it may seem like a great thing, but the end, its OTHER PEOPLE who give you the support, not "gods"

Except that.

And that.

And that. And that. And that. And that. And that. And that.

...

And that.

Why? Why should religion be a taboo subject that you cannot call anything into question? I think the Hindus chucking burned bodies into their rivers as a burial rite is one of the most ****ed up things ever. They're polluting their water source just because they've been doing it for over 2,000 years. Just one example of when good religions go bad.

Smith had broken out of the jail and was on the second story of the structure for the duration of the fight. If he was "in jail" at the time of the fight as you suggest, then why was the final resting place of his body outside? He fell out of a window from a non-secure area. He had escaped.

There is nothing wrong with questioning or disagreeing(as I've already said) but attacking a religion tactlessly is nothing more than an act of pompous self-righteousness. Someone who does that doesn't want to make a point, they want to feel superior.

my biggest beef with the Mormons

Mormons address "this book" to mean Revelations, not the Bible. In a way I would agree with them since Revelations wasn't compiled with the rest of the books to form the Bible until much later.

...

Good point, Freelancer.

Smith was originally in the jail cell that they had on the first floor. However, the jailer feared for their safety, so he later led them up to another cell that they had on the second floor, which while more uncomfortable, was a lot more secure. The jailer then let them out after a period of time, and led the four men stay in his bedroom, which was also on the second floor, which is where Smith and his brother were killed. He never broke out of jail, the jailer let him stay in a different room.

That was EXTREMELY uncalled for.

Then you better have a beef with muslims too because they did the same thing.

What?

They share the Old Testament.

I don't have a problem with Mormons (or LDS or whatever you want to be called!) other than the tactics that have been used on me when they come knocking on the door.

Last year I was home alone and a couple of them knocked on my door. I opened it and they started asking me a bunch of religious questions. I was very polite and I told them that I wasn't interested in hearing what they had to say. They asked, "Well why not?" I told them I just wasn't interested and I started closing the door. The two guys actually tried to HOLD THE DOOR OPEN. I couldn't believe it, they like... don't know who they're messing with! I told them they better get off my property before I call the police. I then proceeded to close the door again and they tried holding it again - then I opened it a little ways till they dropped their arms and then slammed it as hard as I could... hopefully they left with bruises.

It's just sick - there are kids that live here and that won't be able to push the door closed against two grown men.

Anyway, I like the idea of missions and I like the idea of trying to convert people IF they're open to conversion. But damn this is criminal.

Now, that is wrong.

Definetly.

Haha, I can see it now.

Mormons:
"Hello sir, would you like to talk to us about your beliefs?"

Brian:
"REQUEST DENIED."

*Slams door*

Well, this topic sounds *dum de dum dum dum..*

You guys need to watch South Park every once in a while, that episode on being Mormon.

Haha...seriously though. You are all missing the point.

You see, I learned somthing today. It dosn't matter if your Mormon or Catholic, or if your Jewish or Hindu. The religions teach somthing more important than stories, it teaches morals and values, and most of all, faith. Faith that relaxes fear...fear of death, for instance. Religions are ment to be pulled out of books like that, not stories that are probally false or flawed somehow, that someone will argue against.

Ah h*** with it go back to fighting, this is great.