I want to know why the left wing (not going to say "liberals") always think that the right wing (aka "conservatives" or "republicans") is full of morons who accept whatever the party leaders say without question (paraphrase from another thread)

i don't want this to be a discussion of policy, Bush, Iraq or anything like that. this is just so i can understand why so many people think that the right wing is full of morons.

just because there's a whole lot less media expressing right wing opinions that doesn't mean that we don't have our opinions thought out.

i think the only reason conservatives are thought of as dumb and all that is because we have less voice in society (ever heard of a right wing news channel on TV? of course i'd prefer that news wasn't biased...)

anyway, share your thoughts. I don't want heated discussion... just sharing of thoughts on why things are the way they are.

Oh, this will generate into a heated conversation when the droogs get in.

However, conservatives have done stupid as well as not so stupid things, but more on the stupid side.

FGR: but so have "liberals".

and yeah, i'm sure this thread will get closed eventually... but i'm hoping to get some good discussion going before that happens, heh.

I was rather under the impression that the entire US media system was incredibly right-wing.

Oh yes, mr. Is. But this thread wasn't about liberals.

Though I couldn't give a damn about them either.

All power to the FGR!

Intellectuals, University academics and the like, are often somewhat more left-wing than everyone else.

Not just often, pretty much always. Also, people who are uneducated, farmers, dropouts and such, tend to be more right-ring. Underdevelloped countries where education is poor also tend to be more right-wing, while countries with higher rates of litteracy are more left-wing. There was this study done (and don't ask me for the source because I've been looking for it for ages now) that took ten thousand subjects, tested their IQs, then made them take a bunch of quizzes to determine their general beliefs and opinions. Then, they took out all values that had very strong tendencies and found alot of beliefs to be inversely associated with intelligence. Amongst the strongest were: Racism, religion, and being conservative.

Where's that site that had all the charts comparing average divorce rate, IQ, literacy, etc. between red states and blue states? It's stuff like that that does the most damage to the reputation of the conservatives. Also the whole stereotype about the right wing being composed of rednecks and bible-thumpers...

Any study done using IQ tests is dubious from the outset. It could just be that the IQ test they used favours left-wing, non-racist, secular people. How, I'm not quite sure, but they'd have to do a lot of work to convince anyone that their IQ test was of a reasonable degree of reliability. Because usually, they aren't.


Pretty much the entire definition of conservativism is resistance to change, and anyone that has studied society will see that it isn't perfect, it's far from perfect, and that change is necessary. This is why social scientists are probably even more liberal than any other scientists.

Before this goes anywhere, though, I'd like point out the important question here:
Is the question about the 'right-wing' or is it about the 'conservative'? They're not the same.

If it is about the right-wing, then I think religion is probably a key factor, and the prevalence of atheism amongst intellectuals.

its the same reason conservitives view the left wing as unintelligent mobs of hippies.








"HAW HAW JOO R DUMBFASE B/C U R ON OTHER SIDE OF LINE >( "

This is a pretty big generalization... but it's a fairly easy way to explain it.

When I talk to a Bush supporter, before they even reveal they're a Bush supporter, I get this feeling in my gut that tells me they're an idiot. They just kind of come off as stupid. Now keep in mind, I have met some really intelligent republicans in my day, but alot of Bush supporters just tend to be really dense. I'm not sure why, but it may have something to do with the reasons posted before me.

So I think this just leads to the generalization that all Bush supporters are really stupid. It's sort of like how nearly every femenist I have ever met is really stupid. It leads me to say nonsense like "All feminists are idiots." Now, while you might say that is a generalization, you cannot say it is an unfounded one. If all of the femenists I have met in my life turn out to be idiots, then I have no reason to believe that all femenists are not idiots. Follow?

It's like if a man says "I hate corvettes. They're ugly." If he's seen only 5 different types of Corvettes in his life, then he's seen a lot of Corvettes, but he hasn't seen them all. There may be one generation of Corvette that he really likes, but if he's never seen that generation, then he doesn't know of its existence. So by that rationalization, he would be able to say "All corvettes are ugly."




NOTE: Please keep in mind, the above post is all in fun.

hehe, Bill, you've obviously never met my housemate, Pippa: she's a feminist (though thankfully she's not a radical nutter) and she also speaks 5 languages, 3 with total fluency.

For me, this is all going to end up boiling down to religion. 'Intelligent' people such as physicists and what have you do have a tendancy to lean to atheism. That's been mentioned. People conceive 'Conservatives' as those God-fearing, Church going folk who (as again said before) resist change.

It basially (imo) is going to come down to 'Clever people look for answers (outside of god) and conservatives are happy with their faith'.

Or something more elequent like I had in my brain.

But yeah, most students (apart from the ones that have absurdly rich parents) here are lefties. Although there are a lot of students who basically vote conservative because a Tory government will let them get richer.

lol Bill... the whole thread should be all in fun or at least all in the pursuit of understanding.

well, I consider myself something of a smart guy... i scored pretty well on the ACT... graduating from high school two years early... and i feel that i've thought out what i believe in and the alternatives very well and i continue to do so so that i don't get to be a "stick in the mud"

i really hate the generalisations about republicans all being red necks and bible thumpers... true, I am a christian and I am a supporter of Bush (i'm not 100% happy with him but he's better than the alternatives) but I do not accept the party or the candidate blindly.
(an interesting aside is that the county attorney is a democrat and goes to church with me... and is quite a firm believer in God and Christ so not all democratic "big thinkers" are liberal hehe)

i know TONS of moronic, red neck, bible thumping democrats (or liberals or left wingers or whatever you want to call it ;))

so i guess we should liken this to the homeschool vs public school thing... there are failures in both systems; it's just that the failures in one system (homeschooling) get pointed out a LOT more often. (i may be boiled alive for that comment... i remember the old homeschooling debates we used to have on here, hehe)


Big Edit:
ok, why do you all think that there are no christian physicists (sp?) and microbiologists etc etc etc ???
they're not as prominent in the general scientific world... because they spend most of their time showing scientific evidence for the existence of God... and of course atheists don't listen to that stuff so they don't know about it.

it is very possible to be a "deep thinker" and still have faith in a higher being. I believe that the more i learn about the world around me the more my faith increases as i see things that indicate it was created and is run by an all powerful being.

I presume the ACT is a knowledge test? You can know alot and be dumb, just like you can have an IQ of 175 and dropped out after seventh grade. The only relation between the two is that school can sometimes stimulate intelligence. I'm not saying you're not intelligent, but rather that your school scores have no meaning.



Microbiology, or biology in general isn't really a science that requires a high degree of intelligence. Most of it is memorizing. Physics, on the other hand, requires you to be intelligent.

In observation, there are a fair number of conservative, right-wing or religious biologists, but far more physicists are liberal and atheist.

I'd rather like to see your statistics that more physicists are liberal than conservative. While I can see and agree that intellectuals are typically liberal (and have, in history, paved the way for advances in society in general), I'm not sure where you're getting that, simply because physics requires more mathematical calculations than microbiology, physicists are more liberal.

You can also be very intelligent and still do some very stupid things.

Answer to thread title: It's just another generalization. And we all know how generalizations fare. Someone can easily say that all liberals/left-wingers are pacifists/hippies/arrogant/etc. Then we'd have a gaggle of liberals defending against the generalization. It's just bad **** and I stay away from generalizations. Although I will say I'm guilty of generalizing. :/

Subject of science & religion: I love physics. I think it's a great subject. I also believe in God and practice (far less than I should) Catholicism. It is possible to mix faith and science.

Subject of intellegence and party affiliation: I know well spoken and intellegent liberals and conservatives. I know some liberals and conservatives who are the dumbest things on this side of the Prime Meridian. Again, it's all about the generalizations.

Ninja edit: DS is right. I do that on almost a daily basis. My mom has even dubbed me as the "absent minded professor"

We're not going to get anywhere until we define our terms.
When you consider someone 'liberal', what do you mean? What factors do you attribute to them? Similarly, what is considered 'conservative'?

We're not going to achieve anything useful if we keep up the 'liberal/conservative' labels.




In the Larson & Witham survey of 1998 of NAS members, 14% of mathematicians, 7.5% of physicists and 5.5% of biologists responded that they believed in a God.



They compared it directly to a study done in 1913 and 1933. See it here
It's some interesting reading.

[Edit: what's also worth noting is that on the general population as a whole, 95% of Americans believe in a God.]

[Another edit: http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=8048 gives a breakdown of the population as a whole, and apparently the 95% figure is nonsense put forward by some religious organisation. O well]

Ok. I believe the OP was talking about American politics so we'll define accordingly.

Conservatives: Resistant to (big) change in social ideals such as allowing gays to marry and abortion. Prefers lower taxes for all including big corporations and the wealthy. Wants the government only to do what is mandated in the Constitution. Favors "trickle-down" economics. Quite religious. Some conservatives want religious ideals made law (banning gay marriages for example). Weary of other practices.

Liberals: Wants lots of change especially in social policies like the aforementioned ones above. Wants to tax the big corporations and wealthy and use the income to the poor. More secular in nature. Favors Keyensian economics. Supports a larger government more so in businesses. Does not want any sort of religion-based ideals made law. More accepting of other practices.

There. I made a good effort to be impartial to either side.

I still think that is confusing the concepts of 'conservative' and 'liberal' with 'right-wing' and 'left-wing', and even 'Republican' and 'Democrat' specifically.
But if we're only talking about Americans, then I suppose it doesn't matter, but try and think about exactly which term you're referring to.

When I think of "conservative" I usually think of right-wing. Same goes for "liberal." I think of "left-wing." This is mainly how Americans think of these ideologies.

If we're going to restrict to the domain of American politics then it is safe to assume that.

conservative = right-wing
liberal = left-wing.

This clarify any better?

that's a very one dimensional view of the ideologies.

It goes both ways. Us right wingers think most left wingers are stupid. Even many of the so called "intellectual" ones seem to be bordering upon mental illness in my opinion. Of course I know that not all of them are stupid or mentally ill but instead just misguided.

Now we on the right do have our share of uneducated simpletons at the bottom end of the socio-economic scale but there is certainly a similar group at the opposite side of the ideological spectrum.

in my personal experiance, i've known far more intelligent intellectual clever left-wing people, and much fewer right winged ones.

that is not to say i dont know any intellectual right wingers. one of my best friends is one in fact. we just dont discuss polotics. we stick to our camera gear and things we shot recently.

I'm wondering why you don't think conservatives have a "voice in society" when they control almost more of the government than they ever have. Care to explain?

"This is really not necessary. Please control yourself and do not insult others in this manner." -JG

Let's point out a few things:
1.) Biology is nothing without chemistry. In order to be any sort of real biologist, you must have a firm grasp of chemistry. So you are saying chemistry isn't a science that takes intellegence either?

2.) Understanding how the tapestry of life comes together. How something should evolve and why, decoding the process by which the diversity of life came about.

3.) The way in which life systems integrate with eachother, and problems that arise when one system is disabled, and how it will effect another.

I could go on for years. Forget the painstaking lab work that allows for new discoveries. I mean, let's forget the crossover feilds of biochemistry, biophyisics, and the numerous others out there. You obviously are speaking out of you better end in this case Flexor, as you usually do. Yay for assumptions! Yay for making swiping, ignorant claims!

Who said conservatives don't have a voice in society? I skimmed through but must have missed it. Conservatives certainly have a voice in American society. Conservative [American] views are probably actually the majority in this country. I do think it is fair to say that conservative views are far under-represented in popular media which some may mistake as "society's voice".

UHHHHHH HOW ABOUT FOX NEWS??????

Anyways,

Flexor your comment that Biology takes no intelligence is simply ridiculous. I cannot roll my eyes enough.

I'm going to settle this once and for all....

Conservatives are considered unintelligent because they just are. Anyone who stands in the way of social progression for any reason, usually in America it boils down to greed, is ridiculous.

Social progression?

Schming, that's a pretty wild claim with no proof to back it up. Show me the statistics that suggest conservatives have less intelligence than liberals.

EDIT: And no, the fact that college professors are generally more liberal than the rest of society is not proof.

And Wookie, it was in the first post:



As you so keenly pointed out, I think the media are being mistook as society's voice.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/

I think generalizing is the worst thing you can do when it comes to two distinct groups like this. I'm all for freedom of expressing one's ideas (that's the point of a democracy, right?), but when one person thinks the whole nation is full of idiots because the majority disagree with him, then that is wrong. That's dangerous thinking when one believes that he is the only person right, and that everyone who disagrees with him is a moron.

I think the world would be a much better place if people starting realizing that their opinion is not gospel, and that others might have very good reasons for disagreeing with it in the first place. Other people have different experiences, different views on the world, and different thinking patterns. Not one opinion can be considered "wrong", but can be to that person's view. When people start practicing a sense of elitism on opinions, it leads to ignorance, which is very irresponsible way to live.

People need to start accepting reality, and then they can form opinions on what the best course of action is. With that said, that is very difficult to do with biased media bombarding us with partial garbage everyday, left-wing or right-wing. I swear, mass media is going to be the death of this country one day.

I guess I did see it. I just thought you were responding to a later post, I guess.

So I assume almost all ideas from liberals are good ideas?

If you think that settles anything you're as unintelligent as your so called unintelligent conservatives.

Yes. Especially abortion.

Opinions often right or wrong. The only thing that can never be right or wrong is taste and personal preference. For instance, if I tell you I think the earth is flat, and you disagree, well you're right, and I'm wrong. For that reason, there are opinions that are more intelligent than others.




On the contrary - If we're too accepting of less intelligent opinions (for example; the earth is flat), then that will lead to more people believing the earth is flat, and ultimately, ignorance.

I do not like where this thread is going. *promises self to stay away*

When it becomes a four-page flamewar, you'll see what I mean.

Conservatives would say that.