I'm not sure who is more clueless... SF_Gold or Freelancer...

I understand that they would never be the same, I doubt anyone could, but they can still learn to continue their lives. It'll take time, may never happen with some, but as long as they keep something to look foward to they can become whole as a new person.

The question of "why" is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion at hand, really. In the parameters of this debate, it doesn't matter why rape victims feel dehumanized and traumatized (although several people in the thread have done a good job of explaining it). What matters is THAT IT HAPPENS. Rape victims feel dehumanized. PERIOD. You can parrot "Why? Why? Why?" all day and that still will not change the fact that rape victums are traumatized. So unless you can dispute the fact that rape victims often (always?) feel dehumanized, then what exactly are you arguing?

I'd love to hear your reasoning on why rape victims are traumatized, since you've rejected everyone else's ideas on the matter (or are you so bold as to argue that it doesn't or shouldn't traumatize?). So please Freelancer, do tell.

I'm not arguing. I'm asking a question which is apparently beyond everyone but Roach to even attempt to answer without calling me an idiot. The fact that I'm asking the question does not mean I think rape victims are not traumatized, I'm asking why you think they're traumatized. Since my idea of losing some kind of virtue was shot down by nearly everybody, I'm asking why.

The majority of rape is acquaintance rape - the guys who hide in the bushes and watch women through windows are a minority of rape cases. People are raped by people they thought they could trust, people that they cared about and thought were cared about in return. Instead, this person abused their trust, broke into their home, violated their right to determine what happens to them sexually, and took away all ideas of control in life.

That is why a rape victim is traumatized.

Once again, your making the idiotic assumption that emotions are a logical, rational process. They are not.

To build on Wolfy's post, there is also a feeling of loss of control. You couldn't prevent it. There have been guys that say "if I was a girl in that situtation, I'd just kick them in the balls." It seems logical, but I'm guessing a lot of women just freeze. It's like being hit by a car. You don't look at the person's liscense plate, you just sit there and wonder what happened. You can't think and then after all is done, you start thinking about all you <i>could</i> have done. And then there's the thinking of it happening again...

Good luck with that, that's what all my posts have been about and he doesn't take that point as "good enough."

First, just to get this out of my system, a heartless, racist joke...
...which explains why she was able to walk after having been raped by 14 men. :|

Ok, now forget about that, and let's be serious. I'm coming into this a bit late, but I'm going to address a few issues from how I see them.

If this is true then there are millions of people living now, and countless millions of people who have lived in the past that are "severely disturbed." There are a ton of things I value over my own life. The life and safety of my friends, or any other human being, my values, my integrity. Look across history. Why do you think all those Christians died in the arenas? Because they were "severely disturbed"? No. Because they valued their integrity over their lives. What about anyone who's ever died in any war anywhere? Why did they fight when there was a chance of death? What about police officers, fire fighters, or military who go into danger every single day to protect others lives and way of life? None of these people are "severely disturbed." I think in fact, that it's you who is "severely disturbed" if you can't see past the apparent value of your own life over anything else. If you continue with this way of thinking, you're going to put in your 80 years and then die and no one will remember you 100 years later and the world will not have changed in any way. How is that valuable? Look at the most well-known sacrifice of life. Jesus died on a cross nearly 2000 years ago, and look at the effect his life and death has had on society since? Good or bad, his 33 years has shaped the course of human history. You can't tell me that he would have been better off running away from the guards and dieing in peace 20 years later.

moving on...
No one ever said that Free.. Stop twisting people's words. They said that people who have suffered a rape are going to have to deal with the trama of that rape. Not that their lives are "completely doom[ed]"

See above..

What are you a freakin robot? I'm glad that you have become enlightened beyond that of a mere human to where you can affect the way you think and feel just by willing it so.

Didn't want to let this get buried, because this is the best argument so far, imo. But let me ask you a question. In your opinion, who's worse? Those 14 rapists or the officers at the Nazi concentration camps?

*** [eh, I guess q f t isn't allowed any more.... I promise I wasn't saying "donkey" :\ ]

That's all I have to say for now...

Thanks, I am too.

Freelancer loses. End of thread.

That was sarcasm...because you can't do that. Although something tells me, from the posts you've been making, you really don't understand anything past "Free hunt, Free kill, Free eat"

There's a striking similiarity to what you just said, and what is posted around here. I.e the "HOT WOMEN" threads, etc. Posting pictures of girls almost naked, and the replies that are very similar to "She needs a good banging" which are of course only put to lighter terms because of hte rules on the forum.

I agree, Temp.

I don't think so. Just because you enjoy seeing hot, half naked women doesn't mean a damn thing about your attitude as a rapist. My uncle is an accomplished contractor/business owner, has a wife and two kids, probably watches more porn than I do, always checks out girls, and whatnot. It's just something that's natural (albeit, in his instance a bit creepy), but it doesn't make you a rapist or anything akin to it to like the sight of women...and it's not our fault that men naturally find nearly naked women a lot better looking than fully clothed women (most of the time).

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I don't think so. Just because you enjoy seeing hot, half naked women doesn't mean a damn thing about your attitude as a rapist. My uncle is an accomplished contractor/business owner, has a wife and two kids, probably watches more porn than I do, always checks out girls, and whatnot. It's just something that's natural (albeit, in his instance a bit creepy), but it doesn't make you a rapist or anything akin to it to like the sight of women...and it's not our fault that men naturally find nearly naked women a lot better looking than fully clothed women (most of the time).[/QUOTE]

I think Temp's trying to imply that Freelancer is a rapist, because he posted the Hot Women thread and doesn't have an accurate....point of view on people.

But I agree with what you say here. But for some reason, I do not get sexually attracted to other women when I am "in love" with one...so I don't think it's true for all people.

*reads rest of thread* yup...

Hehe, yeah.

I'm the same,I don't get sexually attracted to other women when I'm in love. I'll joke around, but that's about it.

Yoshi and you- I wasn't calling freelancer a rapist. I was replying to Wolfy's post which, from what I got at least, sounded to me that Wolfy was saying that anyone with those urges to women usually ends up raping someone.

Freelancer is a psychopath!

The "She's hot and mine" I can kinda agree with, but the "She needs a good bangin" is a bit vague. I mean, most of the time when I say that it's about some girl who's just too uptight for her own good--meaning she needs to loosen up :p

Freelancer, have you ever stubbed your toe? Have you ever been cut and bled?

Have you ever broken a bone?

Have you ever been humiliated? Embarrased? Frightened?

Have you ever been teased? Ever been pantsed?

If you've ever experienced *any* of these, then you're at least part of the way there to understanding. Now, imagine if all of these happened at once. With somebody you thought of as dear, who betrayed you to inflict all of those on you. Now magnify that about 50 fold. If you're anywhere *near* human, you might begin to at least understand why it's so traumatizing.

If you still need more, how about this. Imagine a girl close to you, somebody you trust. Now imagine, one day, she holds a gun in your face. Really, imagine her, holding the gun, to your face. Then imagine her saying that unless you service her, she's going to fire that gun, and you can tell that she is completely serious. You've said before that it's strange to think there are worse things than dying. Perhaps you can at least agree that this betrayal, this utter USE of you, isn't at least close. If you can't agree... if you still can't see why this is traumatic... then in full, complete honesty, I expect you will go to jail some day, because it is that close from saying "Screw what everybody else feels, I'm doing my own thing."

If I go to jail, I'll make sure it's at your expense.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]...but the "She needs a good bangin" is a bit vague. I mean, most of the time when I say that it's about some girl who's just too uptight for her own good--meaning she needs to loosen up :p[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Generally when I use similar expressions, there's an implied "but not from me" attached to it.

Huzzah, I'm glad you can ignore the rest of the post and just agree to go to jail at his expense.

i feel like beating up some rapists right now