Ok... since were not doing anything but increasing our post counts... why are they not true Christians?

Anyone who believes other people's religions are under the control of satan and should be destroyed aren't Christian.

Also, the belief that there are a limited number on spaces in heaven is very non-Christian.

That argument doesn't fly. The fact that an all-powerful being knows which one of several alternatives you will choose in a given situation doesn't keep them from being equally possible choices.

Roll a Reflex save.

.

as i remember when i was reading threw a Watch Tower mag. they said something about how real true christians back in jesus's day is now todays JWs.

Jw's religion has changed names like 3 or more times.

"In 1913, Russell was criticized for selling miracle wheat seed at an inflated price. When he and the seed was ridiculed in a local paper, he sued the newspaper and lost. Government witnesses testified that the wheat was of an inferior grade. He never profited personally from the sales; the proceeds only amounted to $1800. Contrary to the statements of Witness detractors, there is no evidence that Russell intended fraud. He apparently believed that the wheat was more miraculous than it really was."

Thats not exactly true... but oh well.

"Rev. J.J. Ross of Hamilton ON wrote a pamphlet denouncing Russell's morals and qualifications for the ministry. He MISQUOTED court transcripts. For example he stated that Russell claimed to know Greek; in reality, Russell only claimed to know the Greek alphabet."

You don't honestly think we have just one translator? We've got thousands for your information.

"The WTS translation of the Bible has been criticized severely for changing the meanings of many key passages by insertion of words, such as other and a in places in a way that reverses the meaning of the verses. Some have claimed that the Witness' Translation Committee was almost devoid of credentials; all but one apparently were untrained in Biblical Greek and Hebrew."

Really? I've heard from almost EVERY history teacher of mine, athiests and catholics, that the WTS translation of the Bible is THE MOST ACCEPTED AND MOST USED translation of the Bible.

"They have predicted that the start of Armageddon would occur in 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, and 1941. None of the prophecies have come true. Each failed estimate caused some disillusioned members to leave the organization."

They never said that it would happen, they only said that it was probable. And some of the prophicies have occured. For instance, never before in all recorded history has there been soo many natural disasters occuring as has been the case in the last 100 years, which is a sign of the end, and they will become more and more abundant, so the prophecy says.

In Heaven yes, and we do not know how many spaces are left, but on Earth for Eternal Everlasting Life, there is no limit.

Most denominations claim the same thing. I know mine does.

Can you tell me that you honestly believe that? There are 6 million JW's and there are several billion Catholics in this world, none of whom have anything to do with the WTS translation. Either these people are wrong, or they were flat out lying to you. I believe the second to be the case.

I think the King James Bible is the most widely used version of the Bible, but I might be wrong.

The most of these catholics don't ever pick up a bible, let alone read it. Maybe you do, or in your community, but you should probably peek over the fence at other ones.

That's not how it works it the rest of teh Christian world. Everyone can go to heaven.

Witnesses did use the King James bible for a while if I remember correctly...

Even if 1% of the Catholic world reads the bible, that's at least 10 million people who read the Bible diligently. That's more people than there are JWs in the world.

The bible clearly states that 144 000 will go to heaven with Jesus and many more will be saved from Armageddon, to live on Earth as god wanted Adam and Eve to.

That's what your Bible says, or that you are led to believe it says, anyway. No other translation of the Bible sets any limits.

Assuming that all your billions of catholics are true catholics and not just people who call themselves catholics just to have a religion.

In order to be couted as a witness you need to be baptized, and that is not an easy task, there maybe 6 million witnesses, but there are many more people who are on their way to getting baptized.

Really? I will prove you in a few minutes that your bible does set the limit.

Ok, did you even see where I said 1% of a billion? That's an extremely (READ THAT) conservate esitmate of how many people would diligently read the Bible.

So does that mean there are going to be twice as many JWs by the end of the year or something? You're faliing to see the scope of how pathetically small your religion is.

King James translation please.

I know where this is going. You're going to pull out the 144,000 from the Revelation. My question for you, then, is this: Since we're taking that number literally, are you prepared to admit that all of those 144,000 must be Jewish? (12,000 from the tribe of Judah, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, etc.)

Source on this is Revelation chapter 7, for anyone else that's interested.

Yeah, that's going to be a bit of a problem, isn't it.

Ah well, JW is only one letter off from jew >.>

Wow, amazing how an organization that started in the 1870's could have been around to be Christians in Jesus' time.

Jehovah's Witnesses invented time travel!

[QUOTE=Michael MacFarlane]I know where this is going. You're going to pull out the 144,000 from the Revelation. My question for you, then, is this: Since we're taking that number literally, are you prepared to admit that all of those 144,000 must be Jewish? (12,000 from the tribe of Judah, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, etc.)[/QUOTE]

No. Why? Because we are speaking of Spiritual Israel, or a Spiritual Jew if you will. In other words, you have to spirtualy a Jew, and the Witnesses consider themselves Spiritual Jews.

The moral and knowledge hasn't changed much from back at those times... and now, I'm pulling out my King James version of the bible where it litteraly says 144 000 thousand... now let me find the chapter.

I'm a spiritual Jehovah's Witness, will you save me a spot in heaven plz

That a convinient stretch.

The number's literal, but the fact that they're Jews is symbolic? I'm not going to say that you can't have it both ways, but I don't see any reason to treat one fact in one way and the other in a different way. Remember that the Revelation doesn't just say "144,000 will be saved, and they're all gonna be Jews." It mentions each of the tribes separately. You can make the case for Christians being "spiritual Jews," but I don't think there's any way to make the case that someone is a "spiritual Reubenite."

ftw! a trench war! haha *dives in*



Well... be honest, Kirb. You started throwing insults:



That was a pretty harsh thing to throw at him. Especially because it's unnecessary and no valid argument whatsoever. It's just simply expressing your personal dislike for Gold more than anything else.

And then this:



That's just saying "Im right, you're wrong, gtfo of here."

The two of you should act like men and apologize to eachother. Something that rarely happens here. There's a lot of bashing on these boards, despite forum rules.

I think what Gold says is nonsense too, but that's my opinion, and his is his. It's a matter of respect. When you reach a poinbt of no-understanding it is often just wiser to give up and accept that you're not going to agree. Ofcourse you can always continue the discussion, but resorting to hostilities isn't going to lead anywhere except hate.

I think religion is rubbish, seriously, but just show some respect towards people... This place seems almost downright hostile towards religious people of any kind. I mean, discussion is ok, but a lot of you are more concerned with proving their supposed intellectual superiority over 'religious retards' than anything else.

King James bible: Reveleation, 7 verse 4

"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and for thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Please note this is 16th century English, so it may sound a little funny.

Also: The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK SCRIPTURES says on that exact chapter and verse:

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel."

We are speaking of the Spiritual tribes of Israel here, not the earthly ones, and we know that because the list of tribes not matching the ancient list of tribes Israel, and I have more to prove this point, but my time is short for the evening.

[QUOTE=Michael MacFarlane]The number's literal, but the fact that they're Jews is symbolic? I'm not going to say that you can't have it both ways, but I don't see any reason to treat one fact in one way and the other in a different way. Remember that the Revelation doesn't just say "144,000 will be saved, and they're all gonna be Jews." It mentions each of the tribes separately. You can make the case for Christians being "spiritual Jews," but I don't think there's any way to make the case that someone is a "spiritual Reubenite."[/QUOTE]

I never said that only 144 000 will be saved... why do people keep putting that in my mouth? Not all them will be Jews either, in fact, the majority of them are not going to be witnesses because the majority has already been selected.

Any how, I'm leaving for the night, I will be on tommorrow to continue this.

My mistake, I typed "be saved" where I meant to say "go to heaven." Please respond to my post as though I had typed what I meant to type.

I can't claim to be a religious scholar or nuthin', but isn't that one of the principal tenets of Jehovah's Witness-ism?

Yes it is.

.

omg..some of u are so hardheaded i swear....

no person will make it to heaven, just paradise and this number is not set though it depends on how u live ur life, though a sertain number will be in Jesus's Kingdom and Jesus will be the King of the earth, thats God's gift to him.

Heads are supposed to be hard; they protect the brain from damage that could impede cognitive function.