It's going on right now (9:50 PST)... If you want something to watch, tune in, and discuss.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Random Quote: (in response to old guy's claim that homosexuality was genetic, like race)




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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Must See TV indeed.

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"This thread is still alive? Someone should kill it."

meh, well it's over now... But it was exciting while it lasted.

Anyway, what's everyone's stance on gay marraige?

Personally, I against it (as you'd no doubt have expected), but unpersonally, I could care less, because it's not going to make any difference to me, and this country's already got rediculously immoral *coughabortioncough* laws anyway, so what's one more?

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Before someone says "Animals are gay too, so we can!", realise that some animal reproduction is downright rape in which the female is subdued after a nasty fight with a male.. one specieis of monkey I think it was does this. Damned if I can remember which one.

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Founder of the Massassi Brute Squad (MBS)

B'tduz: A popular dwarfish game which consists of standing a few feet apart and throwing large rocks at one another's head.

"Yes, it's a bloody flying alligator setting fire to my city!" - His Grace His Excellency the Duke of Ankh, Commander Sir Samuel Vimes.

Morituri Nolumus Mori

And some fems kill their mate afterwards

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer of Bloodwing: Fallen Soldier
(no site up yet...)

I'm completely for it.

Edit: That would have been interesting to watch.

[This message has been edited by fourwood (edited July 16, 2004).]

Because in some cases the species can't mate with its head on (IE grasshopper, male) because it gets in the way.

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Sigs are for n00bs.

[1337 FRNDS_Pommy | 3.14 of 14 | » And-GTx2]
Half-Life 2 Central - your definitive source for everything HL2!

And in other cases the female just gets plain hungry, like for example the Black Widow.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Don't care.
God didn't give us free will so people could force their morals on others. It's supposed to be choice, and I suggest leaving it as such.

Similarly, the constitution grants us freedom of choice, so long as it doesn't infringe on others' rights. I don't see homosexuality infringing on others' rights, nor am I aware of anything that gives congress the right to pass laws based completely on moral opinion.

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited July 16, 2004).]

+1

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

I signed an online petition type dealie last night that was going to Congress etc. about the vote they are supoosedly doing about this.

I'm just going to post what I sent them.


That wraps it up for me.

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Put me in the hospital for nerves and then they had to commit me,
You told them all I was crazy,
They cut off my legs now I'm an amputee, God damn you.
============
Frogblast the Vent-Core!

[This message has been edited by phoenix_9286 (edited July 16, 2004).]

Agree or disagree with it, like it or not, it isn't anyone's place to put restrictions on it. It's simply unconstitutional, anything else is just a childish matter of semantics.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited July 16, 2004).]

with that mentality, one could also say that it isn't anyones place to arbitrarily redefine it either.



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I have found that you can transform your character solely by the power of belief: as you believe yourself to be, so you shall become over time.

I think you people are confusing the issue here. The issue is not about whether or not people are allowed to be gay. The issue is over whether they should be allowed to marry and recieve that same benefits that other (straight) couples recieve due to marriage. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it -- in some form or another -- but Congress is not trying to ban homosexuality, only the infraction of it upon something that has, for thousands of years, been traditionally preserved for heterosexuals. Change is good, but change comes slowly.

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Juztyn
Taking credit for: Canyon Stream, Higher Ground, The Space Between, Death's Dome (mlp3), bits of JKRPG, and the entire Showcase forum, damnit!... Visit SWGalaxies.net for the latest Star Wars: Galaxies information!

Agreed.

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Map-Review | My Portfolio | The Matrix: Unplugged

Banks and banks of humming machinery! I've never seen so many knobs. We're going to have to do something, Charlie! Try pushing that button there. No? How about that one? No, not that one either. I know! I'll try pushing this one. Hold my hat will you? Good fellow.

[This message has been edited by Thrawn42689 (edited July 16, 2004).]

If the gays were trying to get a mere civil union w/ benefits, i doubt anyone would care as much. Granted there would be opposition, but not nearly as much as on this marriage issue.

I think the thing that has people so pissed off is that marriage has been held as a tradition that is believed to have sacred origins and meaning by some people, and it has been regarded this way for centuries. However, some gay activists are trying to redefine marriage to accomodate their special interests, and they are acting like the opinions of the larger hetero community don't mean s*** unless the gays get what they want.
Why should a few uber-liberal activists have the right and ability to change one of the oldest traditions commonly held by humanity? It's luadacris. Who the hell do they think they are that they can force their agenda on the bulk of society?

It's ironic that gays often believe themselves to be victims of intolerance, but here they are, blatantly disregarding the long-held traditions of the majority so they can have their way, thus being intolerant of other people's opinions. Damn hypocrites.

Tolerance <> acceptance. if someone tolerates something, it means that they do not destroy it b/c it offends them. It does not mean that they force themselves to like it.



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I have found that you can transform your character solely by the power of belief: as you believe yourself to be, so you shall become over time.

Gays having the right to marry wouldn't in any way affect an heterosexual couple's right to marry, or the meaning of that very marriage. A better question would be, who the hell do you and other people against gay marriage think you are thinking you can force your own beliefs on everyone else?

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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

b/c heterosexual marriage is a well established tradition that is honoured by most people regardless of culture. Simple majority rule.

And its not about affecting marriage on a personal level, it's about the alteration of the ideal. The definition of marriage should not be changed unless the majority of people wish it to be so. so far, that hasn't happened yet.

Prop 22 (which passed by a landslide in california back in the '90s here in cali) stated that marriage was valid only with hetero couples. That is evidence on the position the majority holds concerning marriage, and cali is one of the most liberal states.



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I have found that you can transform your character solely by the power of belief: as you believe yourself to be, so you shall become over time.

I agree with Emon on this one. What a stud.

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Wow, Page, you've managed to take on gays, liberals, and gay liberal activists in only two posts.

Do you even understand why homosexuals continue to fight so hard? It's because they're afraid that if they let up, society will regress. Go back 40 or 50 years and they were outcasts. Go back 90 or 100 years, and they were lynched. It's scary stuff.



No, it's not. "California is liberal, California voted against a thing therefore all liberals are against a thing" doesn't follow.

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited July 17, 2004).]

I find the following two illustrations to sum up my feelings accurately enough:

http://tailsteak.netherweb.com/archive.php?num=193

http://www.sinfest.net/comics/sf20040717.gif

And ****** makes a good point. Pay attention to him.

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Check out the following stories over at the Interactive Story Board:
The Never-ending Story Thread or visit the new webcomic version!
The Vision Cycle series
Featured Story: Scions of Light

[This message has been edited by Gebohq (edited July 17, 2004).]

I don't know what the big deal is, gays get married all the time... didn't anyone see "Saving Silverman"???

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Question: If marriage is so sacred, why do we divorce?

People like Britney Spears getting married for a bet (or whatever it was) then divorcing are far more a threat to the sanctity of marriage than gay people who put up with more **** than most straight people would to get married.

I'm all for Gay marriage. If they want to wade through all the obstacles people try to put in their way, they deserve the right to marriage and al lthat comes with it.

Also I would predict that due to the effort put into a gay marriage, the gay divorce rate will be a fraction of the heterosexual one.

/2 pence

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Very good. To answer that, people try to have their cake and eat it too. They want to reserve marriage to be defined as man and woman yet half the nation divorces.

"It's ok for me divorce in 10+ years but I'll be caught dead before I let those gays redefine marriage!"

It is hate that keeps the homosexual folk from trying to marry. Simple.

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

People talk about the sanctity of marriage all the time. And how it's a holy union. Bull****. If it was a holy union I wouldn't be able to get it done at my courthouse. If these people are so worried about the religious aspects of it, why don't they just let gays get married at courthouses? Most of them don't want married in a church anyway. They wanna sit around and talk about how wrong it is to be gay, and how marriage is only between a man and a woman. Yeah, ok, well you wanna talk about what is immoral. You can go and get married to any woman that wishes to do so, but this guy over here can't marry another guy? Love thy neighbor you bible toting bastard. Don't judge him because he'd rather marry a man than a woman. And don't say you don't want gays walking around all over the place hitting on you. I know quite a few gays (as most of you know, I go to an art school, so this should not come as much of a surprise) and they don't even consider hitting me or any of my friends. They know we're straight, and they respect that. Just like I respect their homosexuality. If you like women, that doesn't mean you want to bang every woman on the planet. If a guy is a homosexual, that doesn't mean he wants to have sex with you. I think that's kind of arrogant actually.

Case in point, leave them alone. Let them marry. They love each other, they want to spend their lives together, so why can't the get the same benefits from the government as everyone else? Of course you have to remember that our wonderful government also used to sell other human beings... so go figure about rights.

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I resent that.

Because too many people marry for the wrong reasons.

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"She turned me into a newt!"
Pause
"Well I got better..."

It's all about money, really. They just want an excuse to not give benefits. America is a capitalist country, and our president is no exception. If it weren't for that, Bush wouldn't give a damn if gays got married or not.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Dang! There are Christians who even need to argue the possition!?! Or are these Episcoplaians and like? *Oh, the part over hear where God says He dosen't like homosexuallity, well that realy means that you should be sending more money to me.* :-P

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited July 17, 2004).]

What?

Indeed

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

*pssst* [whisper]He's stupid..[/whisper]

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I resent that.

Some people can't under stand scarscam even if it's pointed out with a smily. Meh, if this is even an issue I ceace to care. You may as well say Pedophelia and murder are ok. You have just about as much moral basis. People think morals are doing kind peacefull things but don't know why or where that came from. If you don't accept all of the Bible you shouldn't execpt any of it. So, any way aside from beliving the Bible in its entiriry, What are morals? Answer me that.

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited July 17, 2004).]

Refer to my above post.

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I resent that.

Obi, no, you misunderstand - I couldn't even comprehend what you were trying to get across!!

But now I can see that you are a religious conservative comparing homosexuality to pAedophilia and murder. Yeah, nice one.

I would say that morals are living a good life, doing unto others and the rest of taht gubbins.

...also not being a closed minded zealot, but hey, we've all got our vices.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

[This message has been edited by Martyn (edited July 17, 2004).]

Answer me this: Why do you consider sex sins to be greater than others? It's a choice to sin. From a Christian stand point, removing a choice to sin removes the choice God gave us to make, correct? To choose to follow God, an alternative must exist. Otherwise, it's not a choice.

Refer to Genesis, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the choice God gave. If you don't understand the purpose of God putting that tree there, you'll never understand this.

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited July 17, 2004).]

I agree, even if your religious beliefs tell you homosexuality is wrong, I'd say they do far less "damage" than murderers and pedophiles. (Note to Martyn: paedophilia is the (chiefly) British spelling, both are correct.)

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Roach - Caught in the war of hemispheres.
0 of 14.

It depends on your definition of "wrong". I recognize a "wrong" and a "sin" as two seperate things that sometimes share common ground. A sin, by religious definition, is something that displeases God. A wrong is something that has negative effects on someone. There's still a flaw with my line of thinking here, because we as humans can only examine the physical. If a spiritual 'realm' exists, we can't study the effects of an action on a person's spiritual being.

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited July 17, 2004).]

I would argue that homosexuality does zero damage myself (Note: Roach, I'm not having a go at you, I'm just starting where seems appropriate ), I'm not religious and obviously people who are have their beliefs, but I cannot find any reason to just be told that this thing is a sin, or is forbidden or whatever.

Homosexuality is something of an inevitability, it is something that can be applied to some very good poeple. I know I might come off too strong about it, and it might dent my arguments, but I really can't stand it when people just say things to the extent of "It is bad / I hate it / I hate them / my religion tells me these people are bad" take your pick, these things do come up on these forums, and it's the one problem I have with them, and the people who say it, and worse, the people who believe it.

Gay people are people with the same rights as me or you, and deserve all the things we have. End of story. They are not diseased, they are not evil, you may belive they are going to hell, or whatever floats your boat religiously, but I just can't get my head round it.

End rant.

*Sigh*



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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.