With VB 3.7 currently in public beta, and since I have a lot of downtime at the moment, I figured this would be the best time to consider coding and testing our new Massassi.

The plan:

1. Open a private directory which will contain the new massassi (think Massassi2).
2. Install VB 3.7, and get the major themes/code edits working.
3. Begin working on our new front page, and the integration with VB.
4. Integrate all of the old Massassi content into the new design somehow.
5. Test out the new features, and have some pre-selected users produce some "starter" content for the site before bringing it live. Also analyze the design and make sure the whole site fits with the "Massassi" look and feel.
6. Bring the site live, and back up the old site.


I need:
1. PHP coders. The more knowledge with XHTML/CSS/SQL the better.
2. Artists for any and all artwork we'll be using on the site.
3. Content. This means artists, photographers, writers, etc. Read below for more details on what "content" means here.

I obviously need PHP/XHTML coders now, with artists coming in at a later point. Content people can get to work on their stuff right now if they like. The more we start with the better.

The coders need to be at least somewhat active, and proficient with PHP5. The artists need to be quality (I'm sure we have plenty here )
The content needs to be invigorating, fresh, and new. Remember, under the system, your content will be rated by other members. So feel free to ask others for their opinion on your work before you submit.

What content is:
1. It's whatever you want it to be. That's one of the great things about this new Massassi. You are not restricted to creating JK levels, or praying for input on the showcase forum. Now you'll have the input you want, and a place to showcase everything you do, together, categorized and tidy.
2. It's reviews. It's stories. It's artwork/photography. It's a report on a topic important to you. It's music. It's videos. You are not restricted in what you create. If you write a song one day then paint something the next, that's great. Hell, you're welcome to even tie the two together.

What content isn't:
1. Illegal materials in any form. I'm encouraging creativity in you all. Create something that is from you and you alone (or a team!).
2. It isn't for sale. When you post, you retain all the rights to your material, but we will not be offering any means of selling your content. You'll need to use your own services to achieve that. You also agree to publicly display this material when you submit it, and that you alone are responsible for retracting your content if you don't wish to display it any longer (Of course, I encourage that everyone shares their content forever!).

What the site isn't:
1. It is not Digg. Unlike Digg, all the content is hosted here, on Massassi. Unlike Digg, we encourage comments and criticisms, with each piece getting a thread for users to rate and discuss. This isn't simply a comments system, it's a true venue of discussion. Also unlike Digg, Massassi believes that content no longer shown on the front page should not be forgotten. All works will be categorized by the user posted, the type of work, and not by rating. Rating only decides if content will make it onto the site proper (and possibly to the front page for a short time).
2. It is not like DeviantArt. DeviantArt has an incredible focus on art, naturally, and unfortunately is little more than an image host. Critiquing artwork generally doesn't happen until the artwork is finalized, and posted. On Massassi, revisions will be available and encouraged.
3. It is not like Youtube. Videos will be hosted in the way they were uploaded, meaning their high resolutions and codecs intact. I'll encourage the use of specific formats, but you're by no means required to follow it.
4. Unlike most content sites, teamwork is possible and properly attributed.
5. Unlike most content sites, the emphasis is on the community, not the content. A good piece of content may not be the most beautiful image, or fantastic song, but one that spawns a real discussion and invigorates the various viewers.

Anyway, that's enough chatting.

Please, if you can help in any of the ways listed, post here with ways I can get into contact with you. If I can get a good staff of 8-10 people, plus content creators, I'd be ecstatic.

And feel free to comment on my stuff about the site design, but keep in mind this thread is primarily to find hard-working folks.

QUIT WHILE YOU'RE AHEAD

Sounds good. I imagine you know what sort of stuff I'm ready to spearhead, content-wise.

CHARGE!

As long as it stays green and black, it's fine with me.

The only thing that I'm proficient on your list is (T-)SQL. The near 8 mos. or so at current job has taught me some things in SQL. I'm no pro but I'm no newbie. I'm....ok with [X]HTML/CSS. I will not write in PHP for I wish to remain sane. I spend eight hours a day in VB6. My sanity is all ready taxed enough.

I'd be interested in content / writer. I'm glad to see this happening. Probably best to PM me here. I check the site daily at least.

needs more flash xml integration

As long as we still have an Olive theme... <.<

Hmmmm... Content wise I can do recipes, or maybe I could start my work on designing a trebuchet for anyone to build...

design a recipe for trebuchet ammo. D:

meh, PHP.

At the very least you should use a decent programming framework for PHP like Cake or CodeIgniter

Unfortunately I don't see frameworks working out too well. The entire reason I'm using PHP (besides that I'm proficient at it) is that VB runs on it. To tie in a framework with VB, or switch to, say, asp, would be more work than just doing the job.

I'm looking into premade vb integration, and am planning on at least giving Drupal a test run.

How does having a framework make it any more difficult to run VB

Because VB doesn't use the framework, so you're pretty much stuck either rewriting VB using the framework (GOOD LUCK) or making some level of adaptation.

In any case, I'd like to avoid even having a framework be necessary. vbDrupal seems to be pretty damn good for what I want to do, so we might get away with only adding a few additional features.

I can write. I can art too.

This sounds pretty cool.

Maybe it'll give me a little motivation to crack out the new version of UnrealEd and have a play.

uuummm, well I'm a tad busy to really help out with any of the important stuff

as for content, well, I'll look into seeing if I can whip up a few things

I can do xhtml/css/sql. Haven't actually done much with PHP, though.

I am too busy with other PHP engagements to help out on that end, but I like the concept for content-handling and I can't wait to submit content.

If there isn't an olive theme there'll be not a coolmatty but a hot-flamelickedmatty.

I can't do much in site design stuff but content will hopefully be supplied.

I'd say we make a sacrifice to the webcoding gods, with people that use the olive theme as subjects.

I'll help with CSS, xHTML, and design/art.

Zeqmacaw Giraffe and Hellraiser might be required to help you with Coding if they ever want to see their precious JKHub ever again!

*evillaugh*

I can submit content! Pictures, videos, maybe some other stuff as well.

web2.0

tags

Man, I thought this thread was vaguely Space Ghost related. Oh well.

I can shake my pom poms and cheer you all on.

Wheeeeew

I don't get it. Why is Massassi so eager to drop level editing and mod-making? Yeah, Jedi Knight is old and no one really edits here at all but atleast its a solid protocol. Prehaps we need to move to a newer game or do something in a broader editing-related field. But this "community-driven content site" seems more of a pipe-dream. Having intelligent and insightful discussions of people's content works in theory but this is the internet. Its hard enough to get constructive criticism of people's work on the forums as of now, I do see how having a mass influx of stuff submitted is going to make it better. Yes, Massassi is more of community site as of now and probably needs its community to survive in the future, but I simply don't see how making it all about the community is going to get it far.



Except that's just a mere hope because that expects the small little Massassi community, even though probably more "mature" than regular online groups, will happily and plentifully contribute that (that being critiques through developments). Hell, I don't see evidence of that will happen as of now.



I'm sorry but I don't see "teamwork" and "real discussions" happening. Something like that relies on a real passion and life from a community, and that's something I don't think that even the Massassian community can supply in the long run. I am willing to bet these discussions "spawned" will mimic Youtube comments after content comes pouring in. This is the internet after all, and internet influences kick in. LOL NICE PIC, a/s/l?

And I'll add another thing, why does it have to be Massassi. Couldn't you just make a new site? It seems there will be hardly any similarities to the old Massassi (other than its name) so why not just make a new website? I assume CM has a good server for these High Definition videos, so why not just host Massassi and a new site.

Aw geez, stop whining.

At least that seems to be the standard anti-counter-argument reply around here these days.

You are whining about whining.

I'm not trying to rain on people's parades. And maybe I'm coming off too harsh. But I don't see how this idea is laid out well.

Stop whining about whining about whining.

I'd say Massassi stopped being an editing community in 2004 so at least I would welcome this new direction.

But I think the reason the Massassian community became to be is because we are a relatively niche community (generally Star Wars nerds/Jedi Knight fans and editors/etc) And us nerds attracted other people, even those who don't play/care about the game anymore. But Jedi Knight is dead and editing is dead. Yes, I like a community-connected direction (that's all we got really), but having an any-content-can-be-submitted free-for-all site, and expecting to have in-depth and/or critical discussions to arise from submitted work, doesn't seem like a realistic idea. I mean, we don't even get wonderful criticism in the showcase forum so I'm not seeing how it would work with the whole site.

CM you've kinda proposed just... revamping the Showcase forum? We already KNOW we can add videos, poetry, music, drawings, levels, models, random photography, concept sketches... people already do all these things. How is this new system going to change the way this takes place? I can see promoting it more, maybe having new 'content' like that be more pronounced on the front page, more linked with the rest of the site or whatever, but I'm not sure how doing these things will necessarily re-vivify the site... Do you have specific theory about how 'allowing' all these new things, but saying that it's not youtube/deviantart/digg is going to create positive change?

That, also, may have sounded rather critical, and I apologize if so, but I'm just curious as to what you expect you really happen, and how you expect it will happen.:)

Well if it doesn't work, so what? At least we tried. It won't hurt to try, and I'm up for it.

You're more than welcome to continue submitting mods, levels, etc, for any game under the new site. This will just not be the focus. There's an inherent problem in designing sites like this. You are effectively ensuring that in a few years your site will be outdated again.

Let's also not forget that this has already been argued before a couple months back. There's many reasons not to go this route:

1. It will grow outdated again.
2. What game(s) would we focus on?
3. Our community is no longer big into editing. Some people still enjoy it, and that's fine. We're not kicking you all out for this. Just look at the last Single Player contest we had. It was pretty poor of a turnout, despite best intentions.
4. There are MANY other sites out there that already cover just about any game we could/would cover. Brian mentioned that he believed Massassi was different from those other sites, and that it could differentiate itself. I don't think that's true. Even with the best execution, we'd still be fighting tooth-and-nail to make it against gaming giants.



I don't see why this has to be a pipe dream at all. Massassi's community has always had a different feel from other communities (if you can call them that).

I also believe that part of the reason we have trouble with criticism and such is that we don't focus on the showcase forum anymore. I believe this is a great way to fix it.



Why not? It already happens all the time, right here on the discussion forums. That's where this idea spawned from, after all.

And what do we have to lose, really? I don't see any reason to at least attempt it. It certainly couldn't hurt.



That's your opinion. I don't think that's true at all, as I've seen smaller scale forums and such work very well. Youtube should not be the basis of the entire internet. It's a wholly unmoderated system and there's no sense of community at Youtube.



Because the entire reason is to revive Massassi. I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with just letting Massassi slowly fade out of existence.

I think Echoman's last post brings up exactly why we need to try something new. The Zone is (long since) dead. JK is dead. Editing is dead. As a community, we are dying. People, and not just any people but real core, iconic members of the community, are leaving all the time (see: the recent 'lurkers' thread).

Of the new people we do get, most of them are borderline trolls, and the few that aren't, we shun and make fun of until we leave. Unless they're female, in which case they're catapulted to the highest rungs of Massassi-society. We need to do something new, because people who have never had anything to do with this community don't really have any reason to come and stay, especially not with the treatment most of them get.

I love Massassi. I grew up on, and with, Massassi. But it's time for Massassi to change, or just grow smaller and smaller until it finally dies off. We NEED something new to attract and keep new members (not to mention we need to change how we treat new members...), or else the community is destined for death.

Basically, it boils down to this:
No new members + members leaving (at any speed) = Death.

And we are not getting any new members with the current system.

The problem with the showcase forum is it's not really living to it's name anymore. Hell, half the time, content is posted here, on the discussion forum, rather than the showcase forum.

Another problem with the showcase/discussion forum is that once it drops off the front page, you never see it again. I hope to change that.

I think we're thinking on the same page.

I don't see how focusing on a general interest is a death wish. The interest on a game may wane but that doesn't mean expanding on the general idea is going to kill the site. The interest in Jedi Knight editing is what made Massassi. Yes, its dead now but, fact of the matter is, its an "interest" in something that brought people here. The new Massassi is more like a social hub on the net, which isn't a bad thing, but it seems its appeal is based all on a community on as a driving force to bring new people in. But if we don't have a big enough community to sustain it or one that doesn't have the effort,manpower or experience to make it go, it won't probably attract new folks in the long run?

An idea for a general interest or direction for this site, I feel, shouldn't be thrown out. And when I mean "general" I mean broad. It doesn't have to be restricting (like one game or whatever). It seems the new Massassi's appeal is good criticism of presented work and all that sort, but what I'm b*tching about if we have enough people/involvement for those discussions. And will it bring in new folks who already can go to DeviantArt or whatever?



And to your idea I say, look at the Showcase forum, at times it goes near-death from lack of content. To put it in perspective, the Camhoez thread probably gets more "criticism" and attention than the threads in that forum combined. I don't want to sound like an a**, but I don't see the possible involvement in the long run. Games go outdated and so do site that focus just on them, but I never suggested having the site focus on just a new game. There is not a sure, solid direction that will forever prevent us from dying. The site can always development a new direction or whatever later on as interests come and go. But, as a basic idea, turning around and saying that Massassi is whatever YOU decide seems a poorly thought out plan.

Like I mentioned before, people came here because of Jedi Knight editing. It was the site's direction. It worked when it came to bringing people in. Now JK is dead, but that doesn't mean having a general interest in a subject/game/whatever is a bad, cancerous thing. The new site is whatever the community decides, which I believe has potential due to how important a community is to a well-being of a website, no? But I say, I don't see how there is enough "community" to contribute to such a big effort and how it will bring in new people.



If we go with this idea, we would be fighting tooth-and-nail with social hubs, an even bigger competition than game-related or digital arts-related sites. DeviantArt? SomethingAwful? I don't see why "competing" is such an issue or why we even need to "compete" at all. I'm guessing the new Massassi would boil down to, lack of better terms, "show work-get comments" and alot of similar sites come to mind, no? I never said a community-influenced new design is a bad thing, but "it's whatever you want it to be" seems, no offense, a cop-out.



I love the Massassian community as much as you do (I think). But I don't want to ask too much from it.



I do miss when the showcase forum was filled with work. Good times. But I am willing to bet the reason why the forum was so popular back the ol' days was because of the new work people have been producing through editing, among other things. People tried to learn from each other or compete with other editors to produce better JK-related work. In other words, we all had a passion of designing in a certain field of work. That's why many sites focused on 3D-modeling have active showcase forums. Same goes for Photoshop sites, graphic design sites and music-creation sites. Showcasing different works is nice and all, adds the flavor of variety, but the true engine of showcasing work is partaking it with people who share the same general interests.

I AGREE; SOMEONE GIVE THIS MAN A BIG HAT

You act as if we're suddenly going to have a massive influx of new users to sustain. That's highly unrealistic. It'll take time to build up our userbase.



Yes, we do have enough people? Why in the world would you even think otherwise? And I've already detailed about DeviantArt.




You didn't read my entire post. MUCH of our "content" is not posted in the showcase forum, but here. In the discussion forum.



What? First you say that developing a new direction is a good idea (as interests come and go... newsflash, this already happened), and then you say it's not?

This is not solely my idea. I had previous threads discussing this matter, and this plan was the fruit of many members of massassi, not just me. I am not calling Massassi my pet project. However, I will say that I am going to enforce such a change because if I don't, it simply won't happen.



Who says we'll avoid new gaming? The entire existance of this new design focuses around what the users create. Hell, it might end up that most of our work IS new game modifications and such. And that's perfectly fine. The openness of the design means it can become whatever the users want it to be.



A. SA doesn't even come close to this.
B. DeviantArt has numerous flaws. The entire site is basically surrounded by user profiles, which is not what I am looking for.
C. The short-term goal of this is to serve Massassi's current community better.



How am I asking too much of the community? If the community doesn't want to help, then there's nothing lost (except frames, lol!).



And that will obviously be reflected in the site, with what the massassians create and submit.