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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Anything Celebrity Sexual Assault Scandal Megathread
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Anything Celebrity Sexual Assault Scandal Megathread
2017-11-09, 5:49 PM #81
(In case it's not entirely clear I was not serious.)
2017-11-09, 5:57 PM #82
Humans are inherently violent. It’s human nature. There is no way we can ever stop murder, so policing will never work. Instead of having police we should construct a system where murder is encouraged. This will allow murderers to compete against each other and eventually we are left with only the most bloodthirsty and efficient murderers.

This argument has the same structure. Turns out appeals to human nature are unsound, who would have suspected?
2017-11-09, 6:04 PM #83
Humans are inherently lustful. It’s human nature. There is no way we can ever stop rape, so policing will never work. Instead of having police we should construct a system where rape is encouraged. This will allow rapists to compete against each other and eventually we will breed the most vigorous and efficient rapists.

So am I overselling this yet, or do I need to keep going? An orderly society demands that we repress some of our so-called “natural” urges. Most of them, in fact. That is the purpose of law.

It seems like the only dark trait we don’t care to suppress is avarice. Suppressing any other is good and necessary, but greed is holy and untouchable. Society would crumble if we dared to regulate greed the way we regulate lust. Isn’t that just terribly convenient for a culture ruled by the avaricious?
2017-11-09, 6:25 PM #84
Originally posted by Steven:
Darn that pesky human nature always getting in the way of perfectly good ideas.


https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread
2017-11-09, 7:08 PM #85
Originally posted by Jon`C:
It seems like the only dark trait we don’t care to suppress is avarice. Suppressing any other is good and necessary, but greed is holy and untouchable. Society would crumble if we dared to regulate greed the way we regulate lust. Isn’t that just terribly convenient for a culture ruled by the avaricious?


Christianity forbids usury!
2017-11-09, 7:13 PM #86
Originally posted by Reid:
Christianity forbids usury!


Don’t worry, they’ve patched that bug.
2017-11-09, 7:13 PM #87
The capitalists, I mean. Not the Christians. There’s nothing Christian there.
2017-11-09, 7:54 PM #88
The thing that scares me - really, truly scares me - is all of the kids who don't understand either classical economics or economic systems. The west presents the world to its citizens in a grotesque black-and-white way, capitalism vs. Stalinism, teaching kids those are the only two options that exist. That everything socialist or communist is the same and essentially evil. Well, capitalism is ****ing over all y'all, and change is coming to you sooner or later. An uneducated public that thinks Stalinism is the only alternative to capitalism is eventually going to take it.

Learn yourself a goddamn democratic socialism, son.
2017-11-09, 8:09 PM #89
Sorry not sorry, I'm admittedly somewhat unchuffed to encounter this ancient argument that socialism can never work because of human nature in 2017 surrounded by so much quality evidence that capitalism does. Here, on the trashbag summit of decades of procyclical fiscal policy, overlooking the economic growth wasteland of a new gilded age.

Did you know there's a mathematical proof that capitalism's steady state is when the labor share converges to 0? Market economies have two steady states, 100% and 0%. 100% is socialism. Anything less than that - within the capitalism part of the spectrum - and the value inevitably goes ziiiiiiip right to 0. It's a black hole. Eternal, inevitable poverty for all who work capital instead of owning it. The only things that can stop this from happening are government (social democracy) or revolution (democratic socialism, or much worse). Choose wisely. Reject a formal proof at your peril.
2017-11-09, 8:35 PM #90
Originally posted by Jon`C:
The thing that scares me - really, truly scares me - is all of the kids who don't understand either classical economics or economic systems. The west presents the world to its citizens in a grotesque black-and-white way, capitalism vs. Stalinism, teaching kids those are the only two options that exist. That everything socialist or communist is the same and essentially evil. Well, capitalism is ****ing over all y'all, and change is coming to you sooner or later. An uneducated public that thinks Stalinism is the only alternative to capitalism is eventually going to take it.

Learn yourself a goddamn democratic socialism, son.


http://deplorabledigest.com/2017/11/08/radical-marxist-group-won-12-seats-last-night-democratic-socialists-america-must-stopped/

I mean, anyone who's paying attention saw the DSA won a huge amount of seats in VA. It's been fun to watch, I've made friends with local DSA people and everyone is very excited.

OTOH. You're right that American propaganda has painted the wall with this false dichotomy between the utter dregs of Stalin's Russian and the golden age of the American middle class. They lie and obscure the details, of course, because the golden age of the American middle class was facilitated by a left-wing, literally socialist shift in American politics. People used to believe in sensible regulation of business and finance in wake of the great depression. And DW-NOMINATE even makes this shift objective:

[https://legacy.voteview.com/images/png/house_party_means_1879-2015.png]

America was "made great" due to decades of vicious labor struggles, political activism and quite a bit of luck. Well, luck can't be made, but the other two can.
2017-11-09, 8:36 PM #91
I think history is going to remember this era as a gilded age. We just can't entirely see the problems building in the American system right now.
2017-11-09, 8:44 PM #92
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Sorry not sorry, I'm admittedly somewhat unchuffed to encounter this ancient argument that socialism can never work because of human nature in 2017 surrounded by so much quality evidence that capitalism does. Here, on the trashbag summit of decades of procyclical fiscal policy, overlooking the economic growth wasteland of a new gilded age.


Americans don't even know what capitalism means. Most people view it tautologically: capitalism is all of the stuff that has worked, and socialism is all of the stuff that hasn't.

For instance, there are articles from the early 2010's talking about how Venezuela - don't be fooled - is only successful because it has a market economy. Shift to 2016, Venezuela is doing terrible because of its socialist economy.

Originally posted by Jon`C:
Did you know there's a mathematical proof that capitalism's steady state is when the labor share converges to 0? Market economies have two steady states, 100% and 0%. 100% is socialism. Anything less than that - within the capitalism part of the spectrum - and the value inevitably goes ziiiiiiip right to 0. It's a black hole. Eternal, inevitable poverty for all who work capital instead of owning it. The only things that can stop this from happening are government (social democracy) or revolution (democratic socialism, or much worse). Choose wisely. Reject a formal proof at your peril.


Yup, the early 20th century was a massive explosion caused by capitalism utterly failing. Afterwards, many political systems became, in some ways, more socialistic, not less.

Also, yeah, the Irish potato famine was at least deeply exacerbated by right-wing free market ideology.
2017-11-09, 9:19 PM #93
Speaking of sexual abuse and positions of power:

[https://i.redd.it/zvqkxuy7g1xz.png]

Yes, it literally is everywhere.
2017-11-09, 9:21 PM #94
The difference is, when GOP party members are pedophiles, i.e. Trump or whatever, it isn't headline news for some reason.
2017-11-09, 9:31 PM #95
where does it all end...

2017-11-09, 10:10 PM #96
[https://i.redd.it/3ld02nsch0xz.jpg]
2017-11-09, 10:25 PM #97
Interesting to know that it can't be immoral if it happened in the Bible.

Quote:
Asked whether or not the report would upend Moore’s campaign, Ziegler predicted that Alabama voters would be angrier at the Washington Post for “desperately trying to get something negative” than Moore for his dalliances with teenage girls decades ago.

“He’s clean as a hound’s tooth,” Ziegler claimed, before relying on Scripture to defend Moore.

“Take the Bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler said choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

“There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here,” Ziegler concluded. “Maybe just a little bit unusual.”


Who is Ziegler? Why, the Alabama State Auditor, of course.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/alabama-state-auditor-defends-roy-moore-against-sexual-allegations-invokes-mary-and-joseph/article/2640217
2017-11-09, 11:01 PM #98
If I was Christian I would be pretty furious at those people for using the bible to defend sexual assault of a minor.
2017-11-09, 11:05 PM #99
TBH, I don't have much against Christianity in concept, I guess, I would be less hostile to it in another world. My big contention is how it's used as a vector for propaganda. It's basically impossible to be involved in American church groups without having your face shoved in pro-police, pro-capitalist dog****.
2017-11-09, 11:19 PM #100
Religion in general is just too easy a refugee for spineless, immoral hypocrites. It sort of goes without saying that these jerks represent pretty much the exact opposite of the teachings of Christ, and you don't need to be religious in the slightest to appreciate that.
2017-11-09, 11:20 PM #101
Originally posted by Reid:
If I was Christian I would be pretty furious at those people for using the bible to defend sexual assault of a minor.


If I were Christian, I'd be used to it by now.
2017-11-10, 1:35 AM #102
So apparently Roy Moore issued a statement about the allegations. What's weird is that nowhere in the statement does he directly deny them, lol

(Quoted for completeness, but I don't recommend reading it because it's painfully annoying to do so.)


Quote:
Today, the Judge Roy Moore Campaign for U.S. Senate issued a statement responding to yet another baseless political attack by the Washington Post, a paper that has endorsed Judge Moore's opponent. Moore campaign chair Bill Armistead released the following statement on Thursday afternoon:

"Judge Roy Moore has endured the most outlandish attacks on any candidate in the modern political arena, but this story in today's Washington Post alleging sexual impropriety takes the cake. National liberal organizations know their chosen candidate Doug Jones is in a death spiral, and this is their last ditch Hail Mary.

"The Washington Post has already endorsed the Judge's opponent, and for months, they have engaged in a systematic campaign to distort the truth about the Judge's record and career and derail his campaign. In fact, just two days ago, the Foundation for Moral Law sent a retraction demand to the Post for the false stories they wrote about the Judge's work and compensation. But apparently, there is no end to what the Post will allege.

"The Judge has been married to Kayla for nearly 33 years, has 4 children, and 5 grandchildren. He has been a candidate in four hotly-contested statewide political contests, twice as a gubernatorial candidate and twice as a candidate for chief justice. He has been a three-time candidate for local office, and he has been a national figure in two ground-breaking, judicial fights over religious liberty and traditional marriage. After over 40 years of public service, if any of these allegations were true, they would have been made public long before now.

"Judge Roy Moore is winning with a double-digit lead. So it is no surprise, with just over four weeks remaining, in a race for the U.S. Senate with national implications, that the Democratic Party and the country's most liberal newspaper would come up with a fabrication of this kind.

"This garbage is the very definition of fake news and intentional defamation."
2017-11-10, 2:19 PM #103
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Sorry not sorry, I'm admittedly somewhat unchuffed to encounter this ancient argument that socialism can never work because of human nature in 2017 surrounded by so much quality evidence that capitalism does. Here, on the trashbag summit of decades of procyclical fiscal policy, overlooking the economic growth wasteland of a new gilded age.

Did you know there's a mathematical proof that capitalism's steady state is when the labor share converges to 0? Market economies have two steady states, 100% and 0%. 100% is socialism. Anything less than that - within the capitalism part of the spectrum - and the value inevitably goes ziiiiiiip right to 0. It's a black hole. Eternal, inevitable poverty for all who work capital instead of owning it. The only things that can stop this from happening are government (social democracy) or revolution (democratic socialism, or much worse). Choose wisely. Reject a formal proof at your peril.


I actually can't find where you linked that proof before. Can you link it again?
2017-11-10, 5:44 PM #104
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
So apparently Roy Moore issued a statement about the allegations. What's weird is that nowhere in the statement does he directly deny them, lol

(Quoted for completeness, but I don't recommend reading it because it's painfully annoying to do so.)


Well, fwiw (probably not much) he said this today in an interview:

“I don’t know Ms. Corfman from anybody,” he said. “The allegations of sexual misconduct with her are completely false.”
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-10, 9:40 PM #105
Originally posted by Reid:
I actually can't find where you linked that proof before. Can you link it again?


The one I'm specifically referring to is Steve Keen's Minsky model with capital investment. There's no shortage of similar work, though. You still have a journal subscription so you'd be better equipped to find them than I would be.
2017-11-11, 5:47 AM #106
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-takei-accused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698

This has emboldened me to come out with my own tale of harassment. I too was harassed by George Takei in 2007.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-11, 5:59 AM #107
Julian Assange raped me.
2017-11-11, 7:52 AM #108
Oh, like you didn't want it.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-11, 4:46 PM #109
I was sodomized by a soldier named Wookie06 in an e club years ago.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-11-11, 4:48 PM #110
He was a recruiter, you know
2017-11-11, 4:59 PM #111
oh yeah good, that's a much more specific fantasy
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-11-11, 6:05 PM #112
Louis C.K.'s thing seems fairly benign. It's definitely inappropriate, but it doesn't seem to really compare to these other scandals.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2017-11-11, 6:52 PM #113
It's pretty much exactly what I expected from him. Still gross, but in a relatable way. Almost like he wrote the bit.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-11-11, 7:12 PM #114
Originally posted by Spook:
It's pretty much exactly what I expected from him. Still gross, but in a relatable way. Almost like he wrote the bit.


I relate with nonconsensually masturbating in front of people too!
2017-11-11, 7:58 PM #115
Originally posted by Reid:
I relate with nonconsensually masturbating in front of people too!


Apparently he always asked first. So I have to ask, at this point what exactly counts as consent? I understand there are abuse of authority issues here, too, but are we really okay saying that consent can be retroactively retracted as long as one party is sufficiently more successful than the other? What, exactly, are famous people supposed to do from now on to ensure their sexual activities are actually consensual?
2017-11-11, 7:59 PM #116
Originally posted by Reid:
I relate with nonconsensually masturbating in front of people too!


I knew we would get the truth out of you eventually.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-11-11, 8:11 PM #117
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Apparently he always asked first. So I have to ask, at this point what exactly counts as consent? I understand there are abuse of authority issues here, too, but are we really okay saying that consent can be retroactively retracted as long as one party is sufficiently more successful than the other? What, exactly, are famous people supposed to do from now on to ensure their sexual activities are actually consensual?


body cams
2017-11-11, 8:13 PM #118
and the associated insurance policy with binding arbitration
2017-11-11, 8:16 PM #119
Taking the whole idea of "safe sex" to an entirely new level.

2017-11-11, 9:37 PM #120
At this rate Netflix is going to run out of original content soon.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

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