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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Anything Celebrity Sexual Assault Scandal Megathread
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Anything Celebrity Sexual Assault Scandal Megathread
2017-11-12, 1:50 AM #121
You know, for a while there I was worried that some far right group of young men would figure that they have nothing to lose by rallying around besieged sexual predators, and simply codifying a right to commit sexual assault so that they can shove it liberals faces, but then I realized that most of the perpetrators are themselves considered liberals. So this hypothetical group of far right young men would have to make the tough decision between either sticking up for liberals that they would have been so predisposed to dogpile onto, or pass up the opportunity to defend someone who oppresses women. I am hopeful that the latter will win out.

Although now that I think about it, I wonder if all these accused actors will convert a few TRP readers to the left....
2017-11-12, 1:53 AM #122
OTOH, maybe it's not just the alt right. In today's news, /r/incel has been banned.

Word on the street (4chan) is that anons are worried that that now evacuated cesspool will invade their boards and somehow make them worse than they already are (hah). Maybe /pol will convert a few to the alt right, but there's also r9k which seems to frown on Nazi cosplay.
2017-11-12, 3:29 AM #123
[QUOTE=New York Times]As soon as they sat down in his room, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis C.K. asked if he could take out his penis, the women said.

They thought it was a joke and laughed it off. “And then he really did it,” Ms. Goodman said in an interview with The New York Times. “He proceeded to take all of his clothes off, and get completely naked, and started masturbating.”[/QUOTE]

Seems irresponsible of the NYT to be so evasive about whether or not the women did in fact consent to this. Louis acknowledged that these accounts were true, but he claims he never did anything sexual without consent. This account doesn't contradict his own testimony.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-12, 3:40 AM #124
Given the current media climate, it seems unlikely he could have recovered even if he wanted to push back against the NYT. But a part of me feels he was a little too apologetic, so that it actually hurt him.
2017-11-12, 6:55 AM #125
I didn't read any of the Louis CK articles, if it was consensual, then really who cares. Unless there's the power differential thing, but even then, doesn't seem nearly as bad as it was made out to be by the headlines.
2017-11-12, 7:15 AM #126
Louis wasn't even very famous when a lot of these incidents occurred. Who had heard of Louis CK in 2003-2005? I don't know how much leverage he had over these women. It doesn't seem nearly as black and white as Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein's predatory behavior clearly was.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-12, 11:25 AM #127
I think Louis C.K. was more of a big thing inside the industry than outside of it. He was the head writer on the Dana Carvey Show, for example, and I guess helped launch some big names, like Stephen Colbert. There was probably a little bit of leverage at play here but honestly I wouldn’t think it’s enough that people should care as much as they do.
2017-11-16, 8:47 AM #128
So now it's Al Franken's turn.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-16, 1:23 PM #129
Good grief. If she didn't want to be forcefully kissed, then she shouldn't have verbally consented to be kissed by somebody who was acting.

As for the photo where he "gropes" her, its easy to be fooled at first glance, but it hardly even looks like he's touching her. There's a difference between being traumatized because of sexual assault, and being embarrassed because somebody humiliated you by pretending to assault you.
2017-11-16, 1:48 PM #130
Oh, and here's some more background information. This lady is full of crock.

  • Al Franken doesn't remember her version of the backstage story where he is said to have forced a kiss
  • She's appeared on Hannity in support of Trump and his birther agenda
  • She apparently told Roger Stone this stuff before the rest of the media


Now that doesn't sound the slightest bit suspicious. Rumor on Reddit is that she was even pretending to be asleep and was in on the joke for the photo where he "groped" her.
2017-11-16, 1:51 PM #131
Tell me more about dat rumor on reddit.
2017-11-16, 2:07 PM #132
I probably shouldn't have mentioned it!

What I did learn is that he is Franken's brother.
2017-11-16, 2:22 PM #133
The photo is not as incriminating as many make it out to be. It's really not funny; he's making light of sexual harassment. But is he actually violating her in any significant way? It's not even clear from the pic that he's touching her. We need a better way to define whether or not someone is violated than that they felt humiliated about it afterwards. There are lots of indignities that are suffered, some mild and some severe, and inflicting them on another person shouldn't in every case end a career dead in its tracks.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-16, 2:55 PM #134
Let's not make any mistake: this is 100% about Roy Moore. Hannity (whose show has featured Tweeden as a frequent guest) has been talking about this all day:

[quote=Some Reddit Guy]
I'm listening to Hannity live right now. [...] He is using the Franken thing shield Moore. He said Moore has proclaimed his innocence , but there is photographic evidence of Franken molesting a woman in her sleep.
[/quote]

Franken has called an ethics investigation against himself. Jake Tapper asked her if she would testify under oath (observe her nervous reflex when he hits her with that question). By the next question, she non-nonchalantly accepted Franken's apology and doesn't seem upset about it in the slightest. This has very little to do with her and everything to do with her politics, and she clearly saw this as an opportunity to get this photo circulating in the conservative media circuit until the cows come home.

Quote:
Tapper: do you are you willing to testify before
the Senate Ethics Committee?

Tweeden: I would be sure I mean I yes
okay if they asked me to do you think
that Senator Franken should step down
from his job or if he fails to be
expelled from the Senate by his
colleagues I'm not asking for that I
mean that's not why I came out with my
story I'm not asking for him to step
down a senator that's not my if somebody
else calls for that but that's not what
I'm asking

Tapper: but in your heart I mean do
you have any feeling I mean it sounds
like you've you've nursed this
understandably with a lot of resentment
again completely understandably for 11
years do you want him punished I mean what
what is the what or did you just want to
be acknowledged as a human being and and
apologized to?

Tweeden: yeah I think that's it the
latter I think I just wanted him to
apologize to me for that and and say he
was sorry and I think that second
statement that he came out with and the
acknowledgment of saying that it was
wrong and that that heartfelt and you
know gathering his staff and saying you
know what it was wrong and I think
everybody needs to take a good hard look
and I think he really came from a place
of honesty there and I think that's
really what we're change is going to be
driven from not from a not from the
victims coming out and talking about it
I think it's going to come from the
people who maybe do the
using that don't even realize they're
doing the abusing because it's so a part
of the culture and it's been so a part
of when you can do this and look at a
camera and laugh and think that that's
okay and you can get away with it and
you know you're being photographed and
you know you're doing it to a woman and
you think that that's okay and you can
do it with impunity and you think you
can just get away with it and it's haha
funny that's what's wrong with the
culture you know so if we can have the
people doing the abusing change that's
where that's when the change is going to
occur


Yeah, okay lady, this certainly is convenient timing if you "just wanted him to apologize".
2017-11-16, 2:56 PM #135
A lot of the stuff in this article makes me kinda disinclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
2017-11-16, 2:59 PM #136
Quote:
It's really not funny; he's making light of sexual harassment.


Who cares?

Let's not forget the context.
2017-11-16, 3:00 PM #137
Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1207347']A lot of the stuff in this article makes me kinda disinclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.


What exactly was the offense?
2017-11-16, 3:06 PM #138
[quote=David Sims]
The picture the radio host Leeann Tweeden included with her story about Al Franken, U.S. Senator from Minnesota, kissing and groping her without her consent on a 2006 USO tour is straightforwardly damning.
[/quote]

Except it's not. He scarcely even touched her 20 lbs. vest of body armor.

Look, he embarrassed her personally, whether or not he meant to. This is just her getting back at him by embarrassing him politically as cheap ammunition for her political hack of a friend, Sean Hannity.

I don't want to dismiss allegations of sexual assault, but I won't hesitate when they are trumped up for a political hatchet job. I think Senator Franken's response in which he called an ethics investigation against himself should be enough to clear up the matter (it won't, of course, because she won't likely testify, and they already got the photo out there to do the political damage, which is all Roger Stone and San Hannity were likely after).
2017-11-16, 3:07 PM #139
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Who cares?

Let's not forget the context.


What's the context?
former entrepreneur
2017-11-16, 3:15 PM #140
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I don't want to dismiss allegations of sexual assault, but


* looks at post history *
2017-11-16, 3:22 PM #141
Let's also not forget what the actual issue is behind these scandals: people (almost all men) who exploit the power they have over another individual in order to silence or shame them into acquiescence.

The photo was taken over a decade ago, while he was still just a comedian rather and not a senator, and she, the Playboy model, was about as prominent a figure as he was at the time, possibly more so.
2017-11-16, 3:26 PM #142
Maybe it's cultural, but I've known who Franken was since I was a kid and I've never heard of Tweeden.

Moreover, though--imo this is a bunch of largely unconnected reasons why Franken's thing "doesn't count," none of which is particularly convincing on its own. The Loose Change model of sexual harassment apologism?
2017-11-16, 3:27 PM #143
Originally posted by Eversor:
What's the context?


A political hatchet job.

Sure, he's guilty as charged for embarrassing her. I'm sure he regrets that now.
2017-11-16, 3:31 PM #144
Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1207354']Maybe it's cultural, but I've known who Franken was since I was a kid and I've never heard of Tweeden.

Moreover, though--imo this is a bunch of largely unconnected reasons why Franken's thing "doesn't count," none of which is particularly convincing on its own. The Loose Change model of sexual harassment apologism?


It's not all that loose of a connection. She's been on Hannity's show several times. She also told Roger Stone about the photo before she went to the media.

If she really was so personally damaged by this, why didn't she go to to the New York Times instead of her buddies in the right wing propaganda circuit?
2017-11-16, 3:33 PM #145
Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1207354']Maybe it's cultural, but I've known who Franken was since I was a kid and I've never heard of Tweeden.

Moreover, though--imo this is a bunch of largely unconnected reasons why Franken's thing "doesn't count," none of which is particularly convincing on its own. The Loose Change model of sexual harassment apologism?


No, you're right about Franken. I knew about him too. But I don't think he had any power over her because of it, although I could certainly be wrong about that.
2017-11-16, 3:34 PM #146
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
If she really was so personally damaged by this, why didn't she go to to the New York Times instead of her buddies in the right wing propaganda circuit?


Can't say for sure, but if I was an outspokenly Republican woman w/allegations against a popular Democratic senator I probably would have done the same thing.
2017-11-16, 3:36 PM #147
The real crux of the matter in my mind is that there is no assault taking place in the photograph.
2017-11-16, 3:40 PM #148
I could be totally wrong, and maybe he really did grope her through all that body armor. But if that were true, then why did she accept his apology as soon as he offered it without any semblance of a grudge?

But hey, the photo's out there and it looks bad, so who cares? I would love to see her testify under oath.
2017-11-16, 3:46 PM #149
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I could be totally wrong, and maybe he really did grope her through all that body armor. But if that were true, then why did she accept his apology as soon as he offered it without any semblance of a grudge?

I don't think I understand this question. Why can't she accept his apology?
2017-11-16, 3:53 PM #150
Because it's highly disingenuous for her to act as though she were traumatized by this and then let him off the hook so non-nonchalantly, all the while knowing full well the political ramifications for it.

An allegation of sexual assault carries with it incredibly weighty consequences, but that's only because the crime is so traumatic.

Then again, life is full of trauma. For example: being humiliated by a photograph.

Oh, but that's so much worse than hanging out at malls and picking up underage girls, right? Because that's exactly what she knew this photograph would be used to distract from.
2017-11-16, 3:57 PM #151
In another universe, where the timing and media climate were totally different, there could totally be a genuine conversation to be had about how taking that photo was inappropriate and in bad taste.
2017-11-16, 4:26 PM #152
The photo wasn't her main complaint, though.
2017-11-16, 4:31 PM #153
I remember several years back when I said Anthony Weiner got drunk and accidentally sent a public tweet. People on this board were doing cheetah flips and coming up with the most unlikely excuses for how it happened but, of course, I was right. Not because I'm incredibly prescient but because it was the most likely explanation.

Also, I just looked at the picture. You can't grope anyone through IBA.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-16, 4:33 PM #154
Originally posted by 'Thrawn[numbarz:
;1207364']The photo wasn't her main complaint, though.


Her other complaint was that he "forcibly kissed her" backstage where nobody was around to witness it, but let me add, in the context of acting, which is by definition forced, and only after she consented that he may do so, by her own admission!

Franken didn't recall ever forcibly kissing her, remembering differently, but when your accuser admits to consenting within her own accusation... well.
2017-11-16, 4:47 PM #155
It's just locker room.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-16, 5:18 PM #156
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I remember several years back when I said Anthony Weiner got drunk and accidentally sent a public tweet. People on this board were doing cheetah flips and coming up with the most unlikely excuses for how it happened but, of course, I was right. Not because I'm incredibly prescient but because it was the most likely explanation.
link?
2017-11-16, 5:26 PM #157
While the groping thing is probably a red herring, even if it's not assault, one could try to make a case for harassment, if by distributing the photo he created a hostile work environment. But as far as I know, they weren't really co-workers, so much as mutual guests on a USO tour.

I also read that isolated incidents don't constitute harassment unless they are severe.
2017-11-16, 9:46 PM #158
Originally posted by Jon`C:
link?


Damn, you actually don't remember the hilarious trilogy of weiner wiener threads? They were Anthony Weiner is Hilarious, Antony's Wiener is Hilarious, and Anthony Weiner's wiener's Hilarious.

Anyway, our resident legal expert posted this gem:

Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
Here's a pretty good evenhanded article that covers most of the important facts. The more I hear, the more I'm leaning toward this being a frame job. The only Twitter user who retweeted the cock shot before it was deleted had been harassing the supposed intended recipient for over a month before this happened, and he'd tweeted a few times before the pic was posted hinting at an impending sex scandal for Weiner. I haven't drawn any firm conclusions yet, but right now it looks like there's a stronger circumstantial case for a hack than there is for it actually being Weiner.


In in reply I posted this:

Originally posted by Wookie06:
Interesting article and also interesting how easy it is to draw different conclusions. After reading it I think the simplest explanation is that he did "tweet" his wiener. I assume he was probably intoxicated, meant to send it privately, realized later he did not and deleted it. The flurry of juvenile "tweets" at the time seem consistent with intoxication. Maybe he is routinely immature in his twitter posts, I wouldn't know as I don't follow him. Hell, I don't ever look at the "tweets" from people I do follow. I only ever signed up for an account because of the Xbox Live integration. I might pay more attention to the site someday.


The thread's here: https://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?59185-Anthony-Weiner-s-wiener-s-hillarious
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-11-16, 9:58 PM #159
I'm sure he was just hacked for the lulz because his name is Wiener.
2017-11-16, 11:33 PM #160
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Damn, you actually don't remember the hilarious trilogy of weiner wiener threads? They were Anthony Weiner is Hilarious, Antony's Wiener is Hilarious, and Anthony Weiner's wiener's Hilarious.

Anyway, our resident legal expert posted this gem:



In in reply I posted this:



The thread's here: https://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?59185-Anthony-Weiner-s-wiener-s-hillarious


No, I didn't remember them. Apparently I didn't consider it a subject worth discussing. I still don't.
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