Me too! That is the only movie I have EVER cried in. EVER. I dunno why, the acting was so..I think the part that I teared up at was when he doesn't wet the sponge and he kills that guy.


I really want to see this film..but thinking back to the poor prisioner getting fried....I don't want to cry like a bi*** in this movie :/ I mean I'm going to see it in theaters..but..you know.
------------------
I’m not going to die, I’m going to see if I was ever alive. - Spike
It's not your right to decide whether they live or die. They deserve a chance! - Vash
BABIES EVERYWHERE!!!

[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited February 27, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited February 27, 2004).]

ok i think i found the problem but lemme figure out how to word it...
I think he meant how can you live by religion? Why does that drive you? How does that drive you? Why do you believe in it? It's more of an act of confusion and misunderstanding...
Or at least thats what i think, now i am athiest, and i plan on staying that way... the way i look at it it's a waste of time, going to church every sunday? reading the bible?...hey whatever floats your boat, i personaly think its a waste of time.(note that that is an opinion, have gotta yelled at by religous folk for that)


------------------
Blue, no yellow, AHHHHHHHHHH

That is just it though. You view it as a waste of time, we do not. Let's say it turns out what we believe in is false: What have we really lost?

That is the way I look at it. I can't speak for all believers, but I can for myself. Sure, I have the occasional doubt, but by living my life the way I do, what have I really lost? Whatever you could possibly list out equates to nothing.

I disliked the religion forum with a passion and I do not want to engage in an arguement here. So I will just stop now.

I saw the Passion tonight. I do not believe the film requires a comment or a review. Take from it what you will...or won't.

------------------
"She turned me into a newt!"
Pause
"Well I got better..."

[This message has been edited by R_ivi_N (edited February 28, 2004).]

I cried from SHawshank Redemption, Green Mile, and Braveheart.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

There's ten sefirot, you unwashed Albanian manmonger.

I apparently set of people's Jewdar. At work customers constantly give me Christian propaganda cards, while they leave everyone else alone, well except the other Jew.


------------------
Superstition brings bad luck.
-Raymond Smullyan, 5000B.C.

I'll see it when it comes on DVD. Although I have to stomach the tearing off the skin parts you guys mentioned. Decapitation I can take, but not tearing of the skin of people....

<3 stat

Well, I managed not to cry, and I'm a Christian (and a wuss besides). So who knows.
Of course, I have to admit I was paying far too much attention to cinematics instead of the movie itself. You can almost see his rib...
That cat-o-nine-tails with the broken glass was brutal. The guy on one side wipped him once with it and it stuck on Jesus's side opposite the soldier. Then he ripped out a chunk of flesh, and blood splatters on the soldier's face. No joke.
So go see it.


------------------
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." - Proverbs 27:17

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code (NEC) Online - Don't do wiring without consulting it. OR ELSE!

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited February 28, 2004).]

Saw it.

Just wow.

To be honest, the people going in looking to find fault with the film will find it no matter what.

Everyone else will likely either leave the theater angry, sad, or just emotionally drained.

This is the most powerful film I have ever seen, and I think will ever be made.

For those of you who have seen it and still don't get it, let me put it this way -

that is the depth Jesus (who historically has been proven to exist, so don't say he's imagined) went to, to essentially tell people to be nice and tolerant to each other, and to be forgiving of each other.

That's the jist. And the flashbacks do put the violence in that context - some people just are looking to pick a fight with this film.

I don't know, maybe because they are anal and less tolorant than they claim to be?

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Or, here's an idea - maybe they have different opinions?

I'm not religious, but I still went in expecting something good. The reason I didn't like it isn't because it was a religious movie, it wasn't because it was about jesus, and it wasn't because it was shown from a christian perspective rather than a neutral historical one (no, I was very much expecting that). I just thought it was a total piece of crap, that's all. I went there with three other people, and they all agreed. Perhaps christians simply love this movie because it's a story that's close to them, and the emotional impact of it made it seem better than it really was... Like when I saw episode 2 the first time I thought it was the best movie ever, because I've always been a big star wars fanatic (sorry sarn! ). Or then maybe it's just coincidence. All I know is, nearly everyone I know who's not christian and has seen it thought it was horrible.


------------------
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

What he said.

------------------
WOOSH.
-----@%

*Note, this post may accidently contain spoilers*

I just saw the movie 8 hours ago and can say that it was grusome and apalling, in a good way. If you didn't go simply because it was "religious" then i bet you're scared of it. I'll admit im Christian, and I find that people are more tolerant of every religion BUT Christianity. Why's that? Is it because more archeological evidence is proving more and more stories in the Bible correct?

Btw, the Satan scenes represented Satan thinkin he was winnin' his own little battle. The whole goal of Satan was that he wanted this threat to be removed, as the the son of god, Jesus was more powerful than him. The Hell Screaming Scene (<--like that?!?) was Satan all the sudden realizing he lost. Jesus paid for men's souls so that if they believe in him, they don't go to Hell. Satan realized God had the upper hand. All the scenes up to then were sorta follow-ups of the "you can't do it" Satan scene. Satan watching Jesus with his eyes speaking 'you can't do it. your gonna give soon.' Pretty much puttin on the pressure.

If you say it's boring, its because you WANTED it to be boring. Any fool can go sit in a theater, TOTALLY not concentrate on it, and say it was boring. But it takes someone else to try and get into the story and realize the magnitude of it. If you don't think the Bible's true, there's alot of achealogical evidence that it did exist. (Read "The Case for Christ", oh, but you can't, your too scared to.) And if you go just to see blood and gore, thats just disgusting. What has our world come to when we find pleasure from the beating of other people? As a martial artist too, I totally hate violence, but that didn't stop me from wanting to see this movie. The violence portrayed was very real and WHAT REALLY HAPPENED! I think too many people white-wash the crucifiction, and what happened in the Passion was really how it went.

All the falling down was Jesus trying to get the cross down to Calvary, but too weak to continue, and having the Romans being butt holes and not doin crap about it. If you read parts of the Bible, you will find that Jesus fell alot, and every time he fell, all of those things did happen (his mom came over, the woman tried givin him water).

MAIN POINT!: If you walk into the movie not bein open to some of the ideas portrayed, or just ignoring just to say it was boring, thats what its gonna be. Most people walk in with a prejudice, and that's what ruins it. There is alot of evidence in the world that suggests these events did happen. I place my money, and my life, on Jesus.

------------------
0_o o_0....ur pants fell off.

No, it's because only christians try to convert other people. At least generally speaking. I've never had a muslim try to convert me or preach to me or anything. Not once. And I've known -alot- of muslims.




Ok, I'm sorry, but that's just a load of bulls***. People aren't allowed to have their own opinions anymore?



Jesus' existance isn't the issue. The issue is that it was A FREAKIN BORING MOVIE



Right... because god transmitted the real version to mel gibson? Are you sure you're not just saying that because you want it to be the real version? I don't remember the bible describing the violence so excessively and explicitely.




That's probably true, but most people who feel that way won't go waste their money and time seeing it in the first place.


------------------
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

ur just bein stubborn now

------------------
0_o o_0....ur pants fell off.

Just out of curiosity, blackbelt, in what year were you born?

------------------
WOOSH.
-----@%

um July 1989, so im 14 (yes i have gone (going) through puberty. Im not squeaky)

------------------
0_o o_0....ur pants fell off.

An anti-Semitism report-
Slight Spoileritoes
.
.
.
The only scene I found to be anti-Semitic was the one where the Temple was damaged through the earthquake and the Sanhedrin looked on foolishly.
1. The Temple is the holiest place, period. The Jewish Moshiach will rebuild it, while Jesus the Christ was supposed to move people beyond it. According to the film, who wins out?
2. The Ark cracks open, but in the next scene, the cross is standing, undamaged by the earthquake.
3. The Sanhedrin is a prime Jewish authority. However, they were shown as corrupt by Gospels, so, it's not Gibson's fault.

------------------
Superstition brings bad luck.
-Raymond Smullyan, 5000B.C.

And I quote:



------------------
"Why aren't I'm using at these pictures?" - Cloud, 4/14/02

Whether he did or not, I did go in expecting at least a good movie, but I came out with the same feelings he did. Boring.

------------------
WOOSH.
-----@%

Some people just don't get my sense of humor...

------------------
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

1) Regardless, there was an earthquake that did hit the temple. Since the story was about Jesus, it would not make sense to show the jews afterwards years down the road rebuilding the temple, would it? It would be like showing germans working on cleaning up their country and ridding their country of naziism years down the road after Schindler's List. Did it happen? Yes. Would it have been crucial to the story? No. Same difference.

2) There was a tablet with an engraving behind the temple curtain in the Holiest of Holies, not an ark from what I saw. I thought according to scholars that the ark was already lost by this time period? Did it not get carried off to Babylon and went missing after the first siege of Jerusalem?

3) In the same vein, every secular scholar of anthropology I have heard talking about the region, and yes, even some jewish ones, have admitted the sannhedrin at the time was corrupt. They were selling animals within the temple walls for people to use as sacrifices, and also "charging alms at the door" for everyone, even the poor, for lack of a betterway of putting it.

All in all, and please do not misconstrue this as I have the utmost respect for Judaism, the Sanhedrinn was historically - not just biblically - corrupt, at least at this time period. But to only see the jews in a bad light is to miss the point of the movie. The movie casts everyone in a bad light equally, and the romans and jews for and against were intermixed (I actually found the romans to be more against him, just for the sake of getting to abuse another victim).

If this was anti-semetic, then Schindler's List was anti-german. Any right-thinking person knows Schindler's List was not anti-german, it was anti-nazi. Likewise, this film was not anti-semetic - it just showed humanity as a whole at it's worst.

Despite the percecution, Jesus, the focal character is shown saying to love your enemies, and also saying on the cross "Forgive them, they know not what they do." The only reason one thief mentions the high priest is because if not, it could be viewed as Jesus just praying for the romans, when the point was he was praying for EVERYONE. The point was not to single out Caiaphus, but to include him and his ilk in the group Jesus was already praying for.

I hope that clarifies some points...

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Friend at work gave me free tickets, so I'll be seeing The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre on Wednesday week. This thread will be dead and burried by then, which is probably for the better

------------------
The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

Well Flex, you are entitled to your opinion.

Thing is though, from a historical perspective, that is pretty much what happened, so if you were let down, I don't exactly know what you went there expecting to see - commentary from some disciple, in documentary fashion?

From what I have researched, the movie was pretty accurate in what happened, although it did deviate slightly in certain areas.

The main one's I noticed were that Simon of Cyrene was recruited to carry the cross down the path (I was under the impression he was saddled with it the whole way because Jesus was too beat up to carry the cross), and the scourging. Now before you start getting too excited, the scourging was 100% accurate in it's severity. That really DID happen to Jesus. It was said that he was given 39 lashes, because the 40th was death, and that by the end of the 39, enough skin was torn away that you could see bone. And that is not based on biblical but scholar information. The only beef I had was it seemed he was lashed much more than 39 times, and I doubt a roman would have come in to chastise the whippers, given most of the roman army in those back waters of the Empire were not true Roman soldiers, but hired mercenaries.

But, I found other things to be metaphorically accurate if not factually. The roman guys who whipped Jesus - yes, they did enjoy their work. Let's put it this way - you do not hire someone with a weak stomach to torture people. You prefer someone who enjoys their work, because they will be more effective at it. They may be a bit off their rocker, but it comes with the territory.

The other slight deviation that I did not agree with was Judas being afraid to turn in Jesus. Judas was an insurrectionist, and thought he could force Jesus to be the Messiah the Jews at the time were expecting - one that would be a warrior and would deliver them from Roman captivity. He betrayed Jesus to get him to act, and only after Jesus showed he wouldn't act, but allow himself to be taken captive, did Judas begin showing signs of remorse. It did not bother me too much, only because the point of the film was to focus on the suffering Jesus endured for what he believed in, that is, his destiny to die for the sins of everyone, to free them from that and allow himself to be used as a conduit to God.

The only out-and-out deviation that I saw, that was completely 100% Mel Gibson and not factually based, was the inclusion of the Devil in the film. There is nothing in the Bible about him hanging around, or demon midget babies, or possessed children in the Bible. Still, I thought it added effect to the film.


Anyway, Flex, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you were going in to do a proper evaluation of the historical, cultural, and anthropological aspects of the film, then you need to check the disdain for christainity at the door and view it truly objectively - otherwise, your results will only be tainted by your opinions.

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Check out probably the most well-written article I have found on the Passion movie.

Stat, you might like it - it was written by a Rabbi.

http://www.towardtradition.org/article_Passion_Feb_2004.htm

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Like I said, if I disliked christianity to such a point, I wouldn't have wasted my money on that movie.

------------------
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

No matter how historically or biblically accurate it was...it was still boring.

------------------
WOOSH.
-----@%

One of my Jewish friends saw this on Saturday and I didn't hear the end of it today. I think he came into the theater with the mind-set that any movie about Jesus is in fact Anti-Semetic. (I just hate when he crys about anti-semetism and then criticizes other religions. I believe in no god or religion so I don't feel personally insulted but I think it is pretty hypocritical) He was talking about killing Mel Gibson and wanting to burn down his house. He did mention that "satan"(who was played by a woman) always seemed to walk behind jews, is this true?

------------------
*Bjorn*
muhahahha FIRE!!!!!!!! >:) ;(.
hi

Uh, who else would Satan walk behind? The Africans? The French? There aren't exactly a lot of choices, here..

LOL... Amen.

Anyway..

Satan was actually played by a woman, and honestly, I thought most of the scenes with him/her (?) were pretty well done... The final scene did seem a little stereotypical, though. Also, the scene with the mutated baby... Can someone help me out with the reference to that? I vaguely recall something in the Bible actually mentioning that (like a vision or something) but I can't remember what or where...

I honestly don't think they were that bad. It wasn't like a giant red demon with horns... I thought they were mostly quite tasteful.

I was a bit concerned with that myself before seeing it, but honestly it didn't bother me at all... I didn't even think about them after a few minutes.

Naturally. I honestly don't think he meant it quite the way it sounded, so I'm not gonna make a big deal of it, except to point out that he should be a bit tasteful in his opinions.

Very well... That truly makes me feel sad, but you certainly welcome to your own opinion. God gives us that same right, so we should give it back to you.

No, but then again, the Bible has a tendency to underdescribe things... For example, there's several instances where Jesus is in the middle of a big crowd, He says something that makes them mad, and they try to stone Him, but He gets away. If you just read through it, you'd probably not even catch the miracle, but if you stop to think about it, there were hundreds of people around him, all wanting to put him to death, and He just... *slips* off, and no one knows where He went. Strange? I think so. Clearly miraclous in my opinion.

Uhh, maybe I'm not understanding you, but weren't they crying during that scene? I thought it was quite a powerful depiction of their attitudes at the time. THey looked on grimly while a human being was being mutilated beyond recognition, then cried when the temple was destroyed. Not that I have something against Jews, just that those ones had ... issues.

And, finally, blackbelt7, you seriously need to learn to distance yourself from your posts. Your angry, intolerant tone is what usually gives us a bad name around here. While I generally agree with what you said, the way you said it was certainly not acceptable.

------------------
Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin
http://www.writings-emag.net The next big thing since individually wrapped cheese slices (coming soon).

That's my point. I'm not saying it didn't happen this way, but that's just not the way the bible describes it. And yes, I have read it.

------------------
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

Print out the article I just posted in my last post, and give it to your jewish friend to read. He will (or should) respect the opinion of a Rabbi more than any goy.

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

GOY's opinion shall be respected above all.

------------------
Or then not. --FastGamerr/Nikumubeki

Lol Krok



------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Just went to see it tonight with my best friend. I think she and i were the only people in the cinema to have bought popcorn to eat during it..

Popcorn and crucifixions, it was very Roman of us i suppose.

Edit: it was really a quite impressive [albeit occasionally wtf or umno] movie.

------------------
[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited March 06, 2004).]

One of my atheist friends saw it and he saw no antisemetic messages in it so I am going with him seeing as my jewish friend never stops whining about anti-semetism. I just copied that article and will show it to him thanks Fear.

------------------
*Bjorn*
muhahahha FIRE!!!!!!!! >:) ;(.
hi

I saw it friday with my fiancee. I cried too. It was a very moving film and I think mel gibson did very well with it.

------------------
Prowling out of the tundra, swinging a jeweled meat hammer, cometh Outlaw Torn! And he gives a gutteral bellow:

"I'm seriously going to hump you until you scream like a banshee!"

The whole anti-semitism thing is absurd. It's not like theyre putting more blame or emphasis or whatever on the Jews than in the source documents [written largely by Jews].

I suppose while we're at it we should cry foul about Gladiator being anti-Italian because the Romans in it were corrupt and stuff..

My friend and i did come to the conclusion that Gibson seems to have some issues. But beyond that, it was pretty stable. Though some things were as far as i can tell just like straight out of some catholic catechism i'm unfamiliar with or something, or just liberties he took with it on his own.

Though we did get strong affirmation from that sequence with Judas that children are in fact of the devil..

Some things i was all um.. like the flogging for instance, i mean yeah it was totrally moving and agonising and all.. just kinda excessive. I know enough latin to know that they were counting /way/ above the 30 scourgings which was the maximum ever sentenced to anyone when they didn't want them to die, in fact in the extremes they usually sentenced 30 and only gave 29 because 30 they generlaly figured would kill someone. Though the actual scourges were pretty canon and historical. Though the amount of blood, while again dramatic and moving and all, seems to me at least to have been a wee bit excessive, like we have about 5 pints of blood in our body, and that looked to me like more than 5 pints on the ground. But still

And i think it may have already been mentioned that by that time [if i'm remembering right] the Roman nobility at least would be speaking Greek instead of Latin. [Though i am fallible, so correct me if i'm wrong].

My logic prof [who used to be a Jesuit scholar] also pointed out the other day that when Pontius Pilate is washing his hands, they include the line in Aramaic [or Hebrew, i don't recall]: "then let his blood be upon us and our children", which despite being traditional, i guess Gibson had agreed with some big Rabbi before making the movie to leave out, though i guess leaving off the subtitles was close enough or something. The main priest speaker guy quite obviously says a few lines there that aren't subtitled, but not being a speaker of any semitic languages as of yet, i can't confirm or deny this.


I think also we were the only ones who sat through all the credits [partly cuz on movies like that you watch all the credits, it's just summat you do], half-wondering if there would be out-takes.. though i blame that on having previously watch Kung Pow a few days ago. [And Harry Potter right before actually..]

------------------
[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited March 07, 2004).]

You ask (well, aimlessly wonder), I deliver.

Oh.. my.. hat.. *evil giggles*

I can see my house from here!

*plummets into purgatory*

------------------
[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

If you went expecting an action movie, then yes, it would seem boring. Did you expect Jesus to pull out a gun and start blowing people away or something?
The point of the movie was simply this:
Jesus believed he was the Son of God. (As to whether he actually was or not, decide for yourself. I can make my point either way.) He willingly chose to sacrifice himself, put himself through agonizing pain, to prove his love to mankind. Find another man with this love. I challenge... I implore you, even.
Whether he was the Son of God or not, he still deserves worship for the love he expressed, imho. Maybe they just don't care about your soul. *shrug*
Think about it.

------------------
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." - Proverbs 27:17

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code (NEC) Online - Don't do wiring without consulting it. OR ELSE!