As offensive and brash as you are, I did indeed chuckle a bit. And God saw that it was good, and gave us all a great thumbs up.

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-=I'm the wang of this here site, and it's HUGE! So just imagine how big I am.=-
1337Yectiwan
OSC Returns!!
10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On

Ah, I see. I thought you were going based on the forums. But in real life applications, I can see how this pisses you off. Believe me, it pisses me off too.

Myself and my gf had been talking to this one athiest, and finally convinced him to this christian club we frequented. Well, he goes outside for a smoke afterwards, and some goofballs just decided they would lay hands on him. He never came back, and it pisses me off that those guys did that to this day. It's one of the many reasons we eventually decided to leave that group (the fact that it was becoming less spiritual and more of a 'meat market' was another one).

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Fear is here, where's the beer?

hence my agreement to the situation.

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-=I'm the wang of this here site, and it's HUGE! So just imagine how big I am.=-
1337Yectiwan
OSC Returns!!
10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On

Of course!



Although you are wrong about hell, unless you are being tongue in cheek. Hell, or rather the pit of fire, has been a part of Revelations and the Gospels since the original manuscripts. Seriously, if you choose not to believe in hell, that is up to you, but don't make incorrect excuses such as "oh, it was added later" to justify it. If you don't believe it, you don't believe it. That's fine. I won't try to make you think otherwise - all I will do is explain a christan and a historical perspective. Aside from that, your opinions are your own, and that's fine by me. I just hate when people feel the need to use invalid or infactual data or logic to 'prove' their opinion. It's an opinion! You believe what you believe, and that's that!

I just do not get people sometimes.

*shrugs*

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--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Meh, whoever brought evolution into this thread, shove off. Really, this annoys me to no end. To truly understand evolution, you have to do more than just say "ooo, look, a real big bone!!!111". Sadly, it's more complex than that. But whatever.

Even if evolution is complete BS, that by no means says "GOD IS HERE!".

I really wish I could belive in god. However, there is no real need for him in truth. Relegion has to keep stepping back the more and more we gain understanding of the universe. He's like a placeholder for what we don't understand.

As civil as this thread is, it is pointless. I belive there is a frozen clown orbiting saturn when no one is looking. I have firm, solid faith that every time he turns, a child dies. And there is no convincing me otherwise. I have others to back me, and the feeling that what I'm fighting for is right in a universal sense. You will never change my mind. There is no victory to be had here.

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http://www.4guys-1dragoon.cjb.net -No porn. We promise*

My tarot cards predict that this thread will degenerate! Booga booga booga!

I wasn't looking for victory.
As long as you are fully correct in your understanding in what the christian faith is about, and look at the faith itself, and not judge it by the bone head people who claim to follow it, then I'm fine with that.
Your opinion is yours, and you are welcome to it.

Oh, and good luck with your clown.

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Fear is here, where's the beer?

and so you try and advance it? please, people have been doing quite well keeping this thing civil for so long, we dont need posts like that one deliberatly attemping to get a rise, aka trolling, which helps absolutly noone.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW

Relax Noble - it was just humor. This thread could use some...


You don't think Jesus ever asked Peter to pull his finger?

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Fear is here, where's the beer?

*sigh* very well, i'll back off. sorry, checksum

------------------
"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW

Its ok noble - don't take it so personally.


Sometimes we need to realize that being uptight is not the best way to get information across. Some humor to diffuse every now and again refreshes the topic, and allows people to dive back into it with less hurt feelings...

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Fear is here, where's the beer?

This isn't a freaking CHRISTIAN thread, it's a god thread! It's on wether a god period exists or not, in any form. When I say the evolution thing, I mean any relegion's form of creation. Christianity is just one relegion of many, I don't really want to pick on it, they are all pretty similar in my opinion.

As far as victory, it just seems like some people (not you), on both sides are in "convert" mode.

Times like these I wish I was relegious. I wish my friend that died was floating somewhere happy. The only condolence I have is that their organs are saving the lives of others. But to me, this is reality. It's a cold, unforgiving universe. Frankly our fates suck, and our acheivements can be wiped out at any time, in an instant. However, there is nothing I can do about it, so I might as well be a person who makes myself and others enjoy the short time they spend in this hell. This is a tangent, but I think it would be nice in a way if everyone thought that. People get so mad, and in the end, none of it means anything at all. We are all alone together on this speck together, with nothing else to protect and uplift us other than eachother. And people don't appreciate that, and I find that sad.

Man, that was pointless, but in the end, all this is =)

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http://www.4guys-1dragoon.cjb.net -No porn. We promise*

I never said this was a christian thread.

It just turned out that way. Plus, when the only people responding are christians and athiests, it tends to sway the conversation. It isn't like the islamic, hindu, or buddhist populations on massassi, if there are any, are speaking up anyway. (Side note - a true buddhist wouldn't respond regardless - they don't care what you think...)

All I can say is that yes, life sucks, this universe sucks, everything sucks, and death is a part of the cycle.

For me, and please don't take this as conversion talk - I am just sharing my own personal thoughts and experiences here - I do take comfort in the fact that for me, there is a God. I have been through a friend getting accidentally shot to death by another friend while they were playing "guns" with one of their dad's gun collection. I have lost 1 aunt to cancer, and another to a heart attack related to smoking. I have lost an uncle to cancer, and another to old age/stroke. I have seen death over and over, and in fact, I focus on it (though not obscess) and its inevitibility. And yet, even though I do fear death, I take comfort in God. Sappy? Maybe. But seeing as how I didn't believe in him at first, and then decided that it was purely illogical to hate or to not believe in something I know zero firsthand (as opposed to 3rd hand - via people) about, I sought out the basis of christianity.

I run on pure logic, and yet accept there are certain things that defy it. At the time, it made no sense to hate something I was poorly informed on, so I went on a fact-finding mission. And yes, I came across many, many horrible excuses of christiandom. But I chose to focus on the texts, not the people. And as I did that, with my mind set that I would do my absolute best to be completely objective (that was the only fair way to evaluate it) despite my prior hatreds, that is when I discovered for myself the personal nature of God. That is when, somewhere along the way, I began to see the things I spoke of earlier, that most people dismiss out of hand as "luck" or "chance", even though you mathimatically have a better shot at winning the lottery than for even one of these random events to occur, let alone the number of occurances per year. It's like I said before - I found out that God was "believe in me and I will show you", not "I will show you so you can believe in me". For me, there was a very telling line in the bible about this - "Even if someone were to be raised from the dead to warn them, they still would not believe." Up until I decided that I was being illogical, that described me, and I think it describes many, to be honest. Now, I have things that occur now and again, albiet not too often, that might blow people's minds. But what is the point in sharing them? None really - no one would believe me anyway. So I keep that to myself and treasure it. But I do try to make sure people are accurately informed on Christianity.

Anyway, my whole point I guess was just relating my own story, of how I found out things weren't as pointless as I first believed.

Not trying to tell you to believe or not believe anything. Just saw this as an opportunity to share about myself, and so I gabbed away. Sorry if the tangent bothered you, btw. Just felt like sharing.

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Fear is here, where's the beer?

Before I knew my friend was killed, I was really, really depressed without knowing why. I had an urge to call them saturday, and infact me and some friends were talking about them the day I heard the news. It kinda nags me that if I woulda called, if the small lag delay would have done anything.

Some would take that as premonition. I take that as coincidence. The world is random, and sometimes, events can correlate. When you say something "mind blowing" happens, that is the other side of fate. There is mind blowingly unlucky, then there is lucky, or other such events that seem odd. So yeah, if you did bring any events that you thought were devine in nature, other unslanted views may see it as an odd occurance of luck, or have some other explanation.

However, if faith brings you comfort to fight on, sometimes if you can persist only by faith in, say, a clown orbiting saturn, then more power to you.

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http://www.4guys-1dragoon.cjb.net -No porn. We promise*

Completely subjective terms. Some think abortion is murder, thus indicating they think it's evil. Other people disagree, and, while they may not believe it's good, they don't believe it's evil.

There's the hot-potato issue of homosexuality as well. A lot of people believe it is a sin, and, thus, evil. A lot of people don't believe it's a sin, and, thus, do not think it's evil.

The term "good" is generally accepted by the majority as something that benefits someone without having anything more than minimal negative impacts on other people. Donating money, buying a soda for someone, taking a bullet for someone (hey, let's go for polar opposites here!).

Love and hate describe an emotional state. Good and evil qualify states.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

I'm never quite sure how I feel. Part of me believes in God, but another part that is emerging tells me that we fabricate God. And the fabrication of God seems very probable. If and when we come into contact with aliens from another world, what are you then going to think about God. Are we still God's most advanced creation? What does this say about us, and what does this say about God?

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer of Bloodwing: Fallen Soldier
(no site up yet...)

That we weren't God's only creation?

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it

I have absolutely NO clue what this thread is really about anymore, I just scanned the last two pages. But surely what I'm about to quote is somewhat useful and relevant to someone.



Take that as you will.

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Frogblast the Vent Core!

--End of Line--

I just can't wait to see the [Catholic] church's reaction when this happens

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer of Bloodwing: Fallen Soldier
(no site up yet...)

I havn't read the entire thread, but I felt like responding to this particular post.



Of course, you also have to look at it from God's perspective. If he offered you a free pass into heaven multiple times, and you rejected him every time. Who is to say that he's going to give you one once you hit the gates? It all comes down to, if you reject him now, He'll reject you later. After all, what goes around comes around. But anyways...

You'll have to excuse me, but what ever happend to "God loves everyone reguardless."?

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Frogblast the Vent Core!

--End of Line--

Well, he loves us all, but he can turn his back on people. He turned his back on the Jews and punished them a lot in the Old Testament. He even turned his back on his own son, did he not? So whats to say he wont turn his back on you?

No, that's not it at all -- God doesn't "turn his back" on people. If you want to debate the nature of evil, that's another issue, but God doesn't stop loving. If anyone goes to hell, it's because they want to, not because God says they're not good enough.

Ack -- I failed to not post on this thread. Must avoid again...

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Check out the following stories over at the Interactive Story Board:
The Never-ending Story Thread or visit the new webcomic version!
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If I was God, I wouldn't blame him. I mean, the free pass was sent in the form of a book written thousands of years ago, which has been copied and recopied, translated and mistranslated, many times, and has probably had bits added by sneaky people.

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MadQuack has a signature.

Ok, seems I overlooked somethings. The reason God would turn his back is because of the evil. So, when all the sin in the world was piled on Jesus, that is when God turned his back on him.

So basically, God is giving out little 'I'm not evil' passes. So, once judgement day comes around, all the little people with the 'I'm no evil' passes go to heaven, and all the people with out them do not. Of course, once you get one of those passes, its gets a little deeper, but that is besides the point right now.

Are you talking about letters of indulgence

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"Music is the universal language and the
dialect we speak in is Hip Hop!" - King Solomon

We have actually. There was even a Muslim spammer for a while.

And similar trends from a few Jehovah's Witness.

And then endless examples of concerned loving athiests trying to save people from their ignorance and religious brainwashing so they could see the truth as it were [very Vatican of them really].

I'm not sure Buddhism really proselytizes as such, but it certainly is not entirely passive [ie Buddhist monk mercenary armies in classical China, or currently in SE Asia them throwing molotov cocktails at Hindus or the like].

I'm not sure we really have a sizeable Hindu population here, so it's not surprising that they're not posting, plus Hindu is something you're basically born into the vast majority of the time.

Taoism isn't singular, there's lots of people who are Shinto Taoist Buddhist and whatever else to top it off.

Judaism is not a proselytizing religion either, again the vast majority of the time you are born into it [or marry into sometimes], and from what i've heard [from Jews mostly], they generally discourage people from converting unless they really really really want to.

Also it is important to note that Judaism is not by the vast majority, focussed on any sort of salvation or after-life or whatever else. It is [by what i've heard and learned again from Jews or philosophy of western religion courses or the like], a very humanitarian/temporally focussed religion, live a good life here and help to make the world a better place, it's not a Belief-based religion, to be technical it is referred to as an Orthopraxy, not an Orthodoxy, it is Practice/Observance-based, you can very plausibly be a highly devout practicing Jew who doesn't believe a damn bit of any scripture, so long as you hold the various laws and observances and work to better the world or whatever. There's a bit of a holdover from the mystic's Kabbalah there, like from that source at least, when Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from Paradise, they broke the world, and so Jewery is charged with picking up the pieces so to speak.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Nobody is preaching. Most of us are correcting misconception on Christianity. It's unfortunate that you consider that preaching. Debunking evolution does not prove that God exists. Reminds me of a song called "If We are the Body". /me gives Lord Kuat a cookie. No. Religion and science don't cover the same topics. Why do people insist that they do. This is the kind of stuff that those in touch with spirituality experience all the time. Probable, but illogical. Why would people creat *and* follow a God they knew to be false? Nobody's reading my posts, apparently. God's not like "Hey, I love you, and I'm forcing you to be with me even though your life indicated no desire to be with me." Yeah. Little additions that "just happened" to go unnoticed by devoted followers.

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"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." - Proverbs 27:17

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code (NEC) Online - Don't do wiring without consulting it. OR ELSE!

Because people need something to believe in, we feel a need to find a purpose for everything. Things can't just *be*, we have to see them in this grand vision. Perhaps as was mentioned earlier, early man simpyl couldn't understand a lot of the worlds natural phenomena and tried to explain it with stories, which over centuries develop into religious stories. Obviously not all religions can be right, so there must be SOME other reason for religion than simply God making it. This is plainly obvious.

The greeks create gods for a lot of things and worshipped them. I think we just tend to choose not to see this. We create things to believe in our minds all the time, we create false hopes. It's all the same thing really.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying there isn't a God, because I'm not sure where I stand on it. I'm just presenting the arguments I can think of for the atheist side.

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer of Bloodwing: Fallen Soldier
(no site up yet...)

[This message has been edited by GeneralRamos (edited February 27, 2004).]

You guys are totally missing the point, all of you.



Non-believers, get out, this isn't a thread for you. We aren't here to discuss why God should or shouldn't exist, we're here to talk about why we believe in God even though we can't prove he exists.

Note how there's no room in that sentence for proving why God doesn't exist or why we probably just made him up.

Hey guys..

LONG night, though I'll do my best do answer as good as I can right now.

---


I wasn't going to reply tot his, but a bit further you talk about the BIBLE. I'm not that much of a bible-connaisseur, so talk to me if I'm wrong...
In JOB, SATAN shispers in God's ear: well, Job SEEMS like a hardcore believer, but what would happen if you destroy his HARVEST?.

God destroys the harvest...

NOTES ABOUT THIS:
Satan is ALLOWED IN HEAVEN, and even gets an OPINION.
God is CURIOUS about the OUTCOME of trying out Satan's words.
God PUNISHES his MOST HARDCORE follower.

What does this mean?
GOD IS SUPER, SUPERFALLIBLE.

And, actually, didn't God allow, encourage, and even ORDER stuff that would absolutely SHATTER Human Rights????

---



Please follow me here: STATISTICS.

A counterexample: A 5-year old black child is DYING of hunger. He has looked EVERYWHERE for food. There is one more place where he could find food: in the back of a broken down car. He opens the trunk, and OMG!! THERE'S NOT ONE ****ING EDIBLE OBJECT THERE.

It's happening right now... now........now now......now....

STATISTICS.

---



This was in reply to me saying My answer is: do you believe in evolution?.

Read the CONTEXT man. Someone said he was amazed by how perfect every organism works(not deniable) and how all this couldn't have been simply the result of LUCK or CHANCE.

Again: DO YOU BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION?

The argument of perfection can NEVER AGAIN be an argument in discussions like these. Not since Darwin anyway(over ONE HUNDRED years ago - GUYS?).

The ONLY thing you could keep standing is that God allowed certain environments and laws of mutation at the very very beginning.

---



Because the concept of 'warm' cannot exist without the concept of 'cold' (Heraklitos?)

And, more seriously, because a society simply cannot ACCEPT their members doing whatever they want.

It would be like COMMUNISM: do whatever you want, play some stratego, you still all get the same paycheck afterwards.

Stuff can't WORK that way.

---



Because of the aforementioned development of our neocortex.

---



Ermm... with MUCH respect dude, but... yeah.

---



I'd have preffered people who feel god doesn't exist, but anyway...

FOr me, this is pretty LOGICAL. Because these people base their insights on SCIENTIFICALLY VERIFIABLE FACTS, and believers(!) don't.

Don't get me wrong here. I believe science is ****ed up in SO many ways(Newtonian Law? Geez...)

---



Hitler and MANY MANY OTHERS did it in TEN YEARS. I think it's acceptable to realize it's possible in TENS OF THOUSANDS....

---



Actually, both are welcome

Christians don't believe in the spiteful God of the Old Testament, but the forgiving God of the new Testament.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Yes, the Hitler card. According to Hitler's law, it is always played in an at least three-page debate.

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Or then not. --FastGamerr/Nikumubeki

***WHAT Hitler card??***

So he didn't convince a whole population of an idea they used to be RADICALLY OPPOSED TO?

Actually, DON'T answer that question or hijack MY thread... Go reply to word association or something...

God is our father.

He does not fix everything, Does your dad fix everything? can he fix everything? Nope.

God could, but thats not the point, hes not there to fix your problems, he just guides you and helps you here and there. But your on your own, but atleast you've always got someone who will listen to you.

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"In the memory you'll find me. Eyes burning up.
The darkness holding me tightly.
Untill the sun rises up."

Relax.

It's the Hitler card because there is an ongoing debate to which you brought Hitler as an argument. Relevance is irrelevant (heh!), it's the Hitler card nonetheless.

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Or then not. --FastGamerr/Nikumubeki

Oi!

I was having a good time here having a civil conversation with Mr Fear, and I'm a happy non-believer! I just respect the fact that you guys believe and am interested in your states of mind due to many run-ins with "Christians" who miss the point - it's nice to see proper ones doing their religion some justice for once IMO...

But to drop into french for a sec (My best friend who's taking a gap year in France taught me this) "Chapeau".

This is possibly the best debate/discussion on this I've seen!


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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

....right. I see a comment like this from either side again, expect an admin beatdown. Tolerance, people, tolerance. See this is the thing about the RD forum being merged back in here, more admining! Huzzah!

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1 & 2 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

[This message has been edited by Jaiph (edited February 28, 2004).]

Yehhhh, mmm, I love you now.



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"It was a slap in the face, how quickly I was replaced".
"Do you remember telling me you'd hold me until you died (until you died)... well you're still alive"

"I just love it when you stick your tongue in my brain, darling"

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

God let my cousin die of lukemia when he was 6 years old, and allowed awful things to happen to my brother when he was younger.

If thats your idea of a caring and benevolent "boss", no thank you.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}