Post # 200. Wow. Anyways, have any of you read his literary works? Quite disturbing..

Did any of you catch that Cho Seung-hui mailed a package to NBC headquarters between the two shootings?

Inside it was a manifesto containing movies, pictures, an audio clip, and a bunch of writing explaining why he did it. NBC released some of the stuff tonight; they will release more tomorrow.

Here is one of the pictures:



Here's the article describing the events as well as a link to the video of the NBC segment that aired on the Nightly News with Brian Williams.

Some portions of the writings:

[quote=Cho Seung-hui]I didn’t have to do this. I could have left. I could have fled. But no, I will no longer run. It’s not for me. For my children, for my brothers and sisters that you f---, I did it for them. When the time came, I did it. I had to.[/quote]

[quote=Cho Seung-hui]You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today, but you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off.[/quote]

[quote=Cho Seung-hui]You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn’t enough, you brats. Your golden necklaces weren’t enough, you snobs. Your trust fund wasn’t enough. Your vodka and Cognac weren’t enough. All your debaucheries weren’t enough. Those weren’t enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything.[/quote]

[quote=Cho Seung-hui]Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave?
Do you know what it feels like to have throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive?
Do you know what it feels like to be humiliated and be impaled upon on a cross? And left to bleed to death for your amusement? You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life. Did you want to inject as much misery in our lives as you can just because you can?[/quote]

Woo, I'm in free's signature, hahah!

Regarding those pics, that stuff again, just proves he was just messed up beyond all belief.

He seems like the kind of guy who would have posted on Massassi.

Yes, I know Lee is some kind of cop. As a student, I'd be more afraid of people going around with concealed weapons than of the off-chance of some nutcase shooting up my school.

Ruled mentally ill by the court then released...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=3052278

So you have a problem with certified law enforcement officers carrying concealed weapons on campus? Do you have a problem with uniformed on-duty officers carrying firearms on campus as well?

So apparently the background check (at least in Virginia) that takes place when you buy a firearm does not include psychiatric records. Does that seem.. insanely stupid to anyone else?

One would think that should definitely be checked...

I think Virginia only performs a criminal background check. I'm assuming that means those records would not have been checked.

You're probably correct - it may not be a bad idea for court records to be checked as well.

No, and I don't doubt that as a police officer you're fully qualified to operate a firearm. What I'm saying is I wouldn't want to go to a school where random students are armed.

Also, keep in mind that he was sent to a psychiatric hospital so I assume it would have been his medical records as well. Apparently, there was not much effort to treat this guy's illness aggressively and properly.

Well no matter how mentally ill or sane you are, no one can predict when anyone decides to go bezerk and on a killing spree.

Made up your mind yet?




You shouldn't be able to tell if anyone was carrying, btw. It is called 'concealed' carry for a reason.

I'd feel better knowing that the students have been properly trained in the use of that weapon.

That would likely exclude over 50% of the current firearms owners... I once read that the US Military would not recruit you if you had ever been on anti-depressants.

The recruiters don't care. It's MEPS that cares. The recruiters tell potential recruits to lie and say they've never taken anti-depressants. They also tell potential recruits to say they've never had suicidal thoughts and my recruiter even told me to lie about taking Accutane. Oh, and he told me to lie about my broken arm when I was 8 and he also told me to lie about my appendectomy (of which there is no physical evidence since it was done laproscopically). I told the truth about everything and I was still eligible for all branches of the military..

Nice organization, that.

Your recruiter was a ****bag.

A good recruiter would say it's your own decision.

Then I lied anyway.

Actually, the point of the second amendment was to provide the citizens a way to protect themselves from government oppression. Having just gone through the revolutionary war, the people who wrote the bill of rights were concerned that if the people were unable to bear arms, then the government would be able to oppress them more easily. Its much more difficult to run an unpopular dictatorship when your entire populace is armed.

This is the most likely meaning, when you consider writings of the men who drafted the (duck)Bill of Rights outside of said document.

Quoted for being nearly exactly what I wanted to say. People who go on killing sprees are headcases first and criminals second. Criminals want your wallet, they'll use a gun to steal from you. They don't really want to kill you but are more likely to do so if you pull a gun on them.

Seriously, there's a real good reason why so many of these things happen in the US. There's more guns available and they're easy to get due to sloppy gun controls and poor gun culture. I don't understand how people can argue that more guns will fix the problem of too many guns.

Training is not the answer, all that then does is put another gun into circulation and increase the chance of some headcase getting a gun. The problem here is not "If only someone had a gun, then they could have pulled a John Wayne and saved the day", it's that it was stupidly easy for a known mental patient to walk into a gun store and buy a gun by flashing a license and passing some half-arsed security check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67n65e9rGQ0

My friend brought out how some people should feel sorry for that shooter.

This is pretty when I think of it.

Well, the previous Pope forgave that guy for shooting him.

Would you guys be able to feel sorry and be able to forgive a guy like this?

I'm quite not sure.

Sorry no. Real convincing argument, but no. More things like this happen in the US because there are more people here (no **** huh?) and because we have a different culture here. I can walk to downtown Salt Lake City, and I can buy a 9mm for ~$100 not even telling the guy my name.

You also assume that the problem is too many guns. I don't think you know how many people own guns and never do anything bad with them. The problem is not too many guns. The problem is people and people will eternally be a problem.

It's not "If someone had a gun they could have pulled a John Wayne and saved the day." It's "If a trained pistol marksman and tactician was in that situation he would have a chance to reduce casualties and control the situation." That's why IMO, concealed carry permits should not be gotten with a gun safety class. They should be gotten with fighting pistol classes and weeks at the range. I encourage everyone to learn gun safety and shoot firearms. I discourage people who do not know what they are doing from carrying around guns.

I agree though, if a criminal pulls a gun on me I am going to give him my wallet. If a headcase pulls a gun on me I'm going to **** the ***** up regardless of wether or not I get hurt, because he/she could do some serious stuff to other people. It's my responsibilty to exercise discretion and determine who is the headcases and who is the criminals.

Edit: Bah, Spook beat me.


Just because you have a firearm does not mean you are forced to use it.


How do you explain, then, in states such as mine (where firearms are everywhere, open carry is legal and requires no permit...or such as Vermont - where no permit is required to carry a concealed firearm), the violent crime rate is not as high as your opinion would suggest?



Free guns after a training class..? Where?

So what's the reason for the rate being even higher in the UK?

A friend at my school called Jack Thompson today at his office. The man that answered was either Jack or someone pretending to be him. Justin talked to him calmly and explained that he had a friend at V Tech and wasn't even sure if she was one of the victims or not, (all true) Jack was questioning the legitimacy of the call (for obvious reasons) and told Justin that he was receiving a lot of hate from gamers from his statement on Fox. Justin continued talking with him about the actions that Jack was planning on taking in the situation and was eventually going to let him know his real thoughts, but Jack overheard a chuckle from one of our friends. "You're a ****ing ***hole," says Jack as he hangs up.

http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/All/07D079003898F95585256A830051348B?OpenDocument

Not only that, Vermont is consistantly ranked as one of the safest states in the nation.

Also don't forget that there's a culture of school shootings in the US -- that in itself could be a vicious cycle.
School/work shootings ("going postal") have occured in almost every western nation at least once, regardless of gun policies. It doesn't really matter how much you try to control the supply, if you're determined enough you'll get hold of a gun.

Limiting gun ownership rights because of something like this is kind of inane, imo.

edit: My sig is kind of silly now isn't it?

You can feel sorry for him because he was so ****ed up in the head and didn't get the help that he obviously needed.

The victims of the Amish school shooting families forgave him. That's really tough.

We may hear loads and loads about the few school shootings that do go on, but they are by no means common. Schools are quite safe as a whole. I almost question the amount of coverage these deals get. All the media attention does is to put the idea of shooting up a school into the mind of the next attacker.

People always call for tougher laws and try to find someone to blame/sue immediately after an incident like this. Laws should not be made or changed in the heat of the moment. Laws should only be made after careful, objective consideration. Lets hope people are rational enough this time (like it will ever happen) to not demand needless security precautions all over the country. Most of the perps in school shootings are students anyways, who would get past security measures. At least officials have been saying that there is no way to protect from something like this. It's the truth and we shouldn't fall all over ourselves trying to fix what we can't do anything about.

Oh, the US tried to ban alcohol in order to improve society and we all know how well that turned out. Americans like their guns and their beer. Trying to ban either is futile.

THANK YOU!

You're a police officer. As far as I'm concerned, that should be allowed to override any prohibitions against students carrying firearms. But ordinary students? No way they should be armed on campus.

I had a big long post written addressing the points of the previous posters (some good points in there, but I hate quote for quote arguments), so I changed my mind and went with this.



Very true.


So why do you want to arm them?

Here's an example. Morphine is handy stuff, but its use is restricted. Can you guess why? It's because there is a potential for serious damage and people are eternally a problem.

No one really expects you guys to give up what is apparently a "right", but damn people, stop being so cavalier about the whole thing. There's no way that "I can walk to downtown Salt Lake City, and I can buy a 9mm for ~$100 not even telling the guy my name." should make you feel safe.

YES. This is what I'm talking about. Decent vetting procedures.

Let's disarm more victims!

Free - was that at me? It's early and my brain hurts.

No, he's talking to me.

So basically you want to make it easy to get a gun, so you can buy a gun, to protect yourself from the people who have guns, because it was easy to get a gun?



*sigh* It's not a hard concept to get if you weren't so defensive of your preciousssss. No one is talking about banning guns. People are talking about making it harder to get guns so it limits the chance of guns getting into the hands of the idiots.

Yes. You should have to prove you are capable of responisble ownership.