is she a teacher or wat

This pick seems to smack of desperation. McCain's main argument is that Obama is too young and lacks the experience to be president, so he chooses a running mate with even less experience?

Can people really not see the difference between the man being in charge having no experience and the vice president not having any? And at least she was a governor, what executive experience can Obama claim?

McCain is an quite old and has a history of cancer. Even he has acknowledged that his age puts particular pressure on his VP. A vice president is a heartbeat away from the presidency, not just a second-in-command.

The celebrity joke is more a comment on the celebrity-like fanbase he enjoys. Arnold may be a celebrity but he is also a brilliant business man. He shrewdly maneuvered and made and empire where as your average b-movie muscled up actor from the '80s is long forgotten. Reagan? Are you serious? He quite clearly moved in a progressive manner from acting to politics. You seriously can't be missing the point of the celebrity joke, can you?



I loved Romney. I would have liked to see him on the ticket in the number 1 position. McCain has made a calculation. He would have been criticized as much from others if he chose Romney. Guess we'll have to keep our fingers crossed that he will run in eight years.



McCain is being accused of not being conservative enough. He is also being accused of being part of the establishment. She is clearly conservative and took on the establishment in her state. I understand your reservations but I think she does bring things McCain needs to the ticket.



Biden isn't going to impress the average person much. Straight from law school to the Senate. Other than keeping the Democrat ticket very left of center, he doesn't do much.



You're off a little here. Obama is the one with no experience outside of a short legislative stint. Palin has much more real life and executive experience when compared to him. The only people that can use the experience argument against her are the people that feel the same way about Obama. It negates any arguments they can make regarding experience period.

Which is why I think McCain's choice so odd. It seems to neutralize his two main arguments: experience and foreign policy/national security.

of Alaska

Which is much more then Obama can claim.

Is it?

well, she did manage a corruption scandal in her first year of office. that's pretty impressive.

I understand your thinking but it is the fact that the Obama campaign cannot use experience as an issue that makes it a reasonably safe choice. McCain is still free to attack Obama's experience, if he chooses (which he clearly states it's his judgement he questions), because Obama can't criticize his VP choice's level of experience because a reasonable argument can be made that she has at least as much as Obama. Biden can't attack her for it because all she has to say is that she's at least as qualified as Obama (Biden of course being Obama's number one). Let's not forget that we're being told that Biden is the experience Obama needs.



Clearly.

True, and I'm not going to disingenuously deny all her accomplishments. But if the argument's going to be that her resume's better than Obama's, I'm far from convinced.

From what I'm thinking, McCain himself covers national issues and foreign policy matters while Palin has a hold on the domestic field. It appears she is very well liked in Alaska. She stood up to Ted Stevens, knows when to stop spending, and has a very cultural quality within her.

As for experience, I think the issue over her time in a government office is not as big as her time with McCain. From what I've understand, Palin and McCain haven't really met terribly often before this announcement. Besides very few public occasions and private meetings, there is nothing to reinforce the idea that the duo truly know themselves well. McCain claims that he always admired her, and that's believable, but I can't shake that universal feeling this was a more of a political move rather than what is best for the government.

I wouldn't say she doesn't bring anything to the table. The greatest thing Palin has going is that she has that "authentic" feel to her. Yes, a very risky decision, but because of that I think it adds a much needed dynamic quality to McCain's campaign. You know she is very anti-abortion because she has an infant with downs syndrome. You know she is pro-gun because she is well known as a hunter and outdoors woman. She exhibited that she can stand up to big government and showed she can walk the walk.

McCain lost his admirable "maverick" touch, but in a way, she restores that. This was a surprise, no? And it brought genuine intrigue to the campaign, no? Now we have to see if this is more than a ploy.

So McCain is putting his resources towards jokes instead of campaigning?


Don't pull a barack.

Palin has barely any executive experience. That's the point. It's more than Obama, but still barely any experience.

....and sound like a total hypocrite. Of course the democrats can't reasonably attack the republican's experience, but with this VP pick, the republicans can't do it either. Any attack on Obama's experience now as a major qualifier will sound hollow.

For a campaign that has been hammering the piss out of the opponent's lack of experience, this move makes them look like colossal hypocrites. Anything they get out of her as VP will be eclipsed by their campaign hamstringing themselves and taking the less powerful candidate.

edit: I also want to clarify that I don't put as much emphasis on executive experience as many people do. I'm merely shaking my head at how McCain has just willing neutered his own strategy, if not had it back blast into his face. Hmmm....maybe the experience argument wasn't working, so instead of just letting it die he decided to take advantage of it not working? That would be a shrewd move....still not as effective as Romney though.

Ehh.... That's got a ways to be proven. From what I heard about her on NPR she seemed pretty good on that count, especially since she was behind rooting out a lot of the republican corruption up in Alaska. You can't just immediately condemn her because she was accused of corruption. I think I like her a tad better than Mcain from what I've heard, but I seriously doubt her ability to lead the country if 72 year old Mcain dies. I mean, she basically got into her governorship after climbing up from her PTA.

And seriously, if Mcain theoretically got a second term he would be eighty, and have endured the stresses of the presidency. Bush is only 62 and he's aged 20 years.

EDIT: I just visited Mcain's site for the first time. This climate change "presentation" is insultingly ambiguous and retarded. http://www.johnmccain.com/climatechange/

One ad that's over and done with. Yeah, he put some resources into it. It was worth poking fun at the whole BHO cultural celebrity phenomenom.



I have no idea what that means. I figure that when McCain is elected we have eight years until Romney can run.



Fine but she's the VP pick with a relatively slim resume and she is still more qualified than BHO. I just don't understand what's got your panties all in a bunch.



I don't see how. Like I said above, her resume outshines his and she has a record of doing what BHO says he will do.



I guess any further response from me will be seen as beating the horse you already killed.



I think we are together on Romney but we have to deal with what we have now. I will tell you that if McCain had actually chosen a liberal Democrat or Republican like they were toying with, I wouldn't even have bothered to mail my absentee ballot in from Iraq. Now, I am all over it.

Climate change as any sort of a political issue is retarded. It is a constant and uncontrollable natural force. One of the issues that conservatives have with McCain is his liberal "environmental" positions.

McCain's are significantly worse. Obama's are tame and civil, McCain's aren't. Also, don't mistake third-party messages to be from the real campaigns. If they don't have the candidate approving the message, it's fake.

You're assuming he runs for a second term.

McCain being an idiot and shooting himself in the foot. I'm tired of morons running this country and this is just one more screw up to add to his list. There is a reason I stopped supporting him and it's crap like this.

Two years as a governor and barely more than that as a small town mayor =/= outshine. Maybe "outglow" at most. Two years is not enough to prove executive prowess. (Mind you, I'm arguing from the perspective of it being of overriding importance).

Agreed. Palin, while not much of a help, is still far and away better than Lieberman, for example.

Interesting move from Mr. McCain, I'd give it a few weeks before the bloom comes off the rose and Mrs. Palin is as evil as the rest of the GOP.

I understand politics, I understand the history of this country, I understand how the game is played. What Obama and McCain are doing actually has been fairly tame so far when compared to other elections. The Clinton/Obama primaries were far more dirty than what we have now.

I guess what is really getting my goat with this particular election is the sainthood that has been bestowed upon Obama. The man is not Jesus Christ, but you'd be tough to believe otherwise when watching him deliver speeches. The reactions of the crowd at the convention, and the glowing commentary delivered afterwards was completely devoid of free thought.

By that token, I completely understand why people adore him. The "Change" he promises is not something I want to tear down because it is needed. Sure I disagree with what he believes "Change" to be for the most part, but that doesn't mean I don't share the same sentiment.

By the same token, John McCain has suddenly become George W Bush II. 2 years ago, you do not hear those charges being leveled at him. But, since it is an election, everyone is picking their battle lines and is laying waste to the other side. The man has done some great things for this country, and was highly regarded I would say by both parties for his achievements.

When the primaries started, I got hooked on politics again, because there was an air of difference. Bush was not running, and our choices were not limited to a Giant Douche or a Turd Sandwich. Right now, it feels like the same old same old. I should know better than to think that people are looking at things even evenhandedly and rationally, but that is simply not the case. In the end, that is what always gets to me; THINK PEOPLE. Don't just follow blindly on vague promises from your politicians, that's how the game is played. The problem is we as a society let it pass.

Eh this was a pretty poor rant, so I apologize for the lack of sophisticated logic and language and poor grammar. I really needed to vent a little bit; this has ben building for a a while now. Not eloquent, but it's Massassi.

I lolled.

I wish people would stop going on about experience. First of all, NEITHER McCain nor Obama have had executive experience. And I fail to see how two years as the governor of a state with less than HALF of the population of my CITY prepares anyone for the presidency, vice or not.

Abraham Lincoln, arguably the best president this country has had, was only in office (in the House) for two years before being sworn in as the president. TWO YEARS! And Obama's had what, eight in state legislature and coming up on three in the US Senate? Experience is simply is NOT a major issue. That's why the president has a cabinet of advisers to make up for the experience and knowledge he may lack.

What IS important? Judgment. Levelheadedness. Fairness. Conviction.

All of which are things I've seen in Obama, but have yet to see in McCain.

McCain was a Captain in the Navy(equivilant of Colonel in the Army). While normally this seems like more than enough for many people, you also have to take into account it was in aviation, which usually has significantly smaller areas of responsibility than Captains/Colonels in other branches.

Obama has such a huge following because he's passionate about what he does, and is trying to bring about major positive change in the country. His message of hope rings strong with a lot of Americans who simply haven't had much to look forward to these last years. Sure, most of it's just rhetoric, but it's better than what the Republicans have come up with.

As for McCain, that's because two years ago McCain is not the same McCain you see today. John Kerry said it well the other night:

[quote=John Kerry]I have known and been friends with John McCain for almost 22 years. But every day now I learn something new about candidate McCain. To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick instead of the reality of a politician, I say, let's compare Senator McCain to candidate McCain.

Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain's own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you're against it.[/quote]

I thought I heard he had no wartime experience as a leader. Perhaps I was wrong. Still, you say it yourself: the area of responsibility was small.

See though, I guess when it comes down to it I really don't believe Obama is invested in changed more than any other politician. He just has decided to make that focus of his campaign. If people want to believe that McCain is a money grubbing supporter of Big Oil, that's fine. But I don't believe Obama wants "Change" anymore than McCain. It just happens to be a very difficult theme to campaign on; ironically. Obama has pulled it off very well, and I'm not questioning his intentions. Just being realistic about it, and trying to give both sides their due.

If I'm not being clear; I believe both want to change things. I'm just saying it's an equal level for both. It may have sounded like I didn't believe Obama wanted to shake things up.

If Palin is such an awful choice for McCain, shouldn't you be happy? You're all crazy for Obama, aren't you?

I'm in an IM conversation so I need to review some of these posts later but this struck me. Of course McCain has executive experience. He has commanded military units and held the requisite staff jobs below command. I wouldn't expect the average person to understand stuff like that but now you know.

In an attempt to derail this thread, did anyone else watch the Daily Show in the last week? I know Stewart makes fun of Democrats too, but he mocked them even more than Republicans do. It was quite hilarious.

Well, they were generating the most material last (as in this) week.

Not gonna lie, shes kinda hott in a milf kinda way.

I'll admit to not knowing much about the military, but anyway...

McCain was a commanding officer from 1976 to 1981, when he left the Navy. The highest rank he ever achieved was Captain (in 1979), which according to Wikipedia, means he was in charge of a cruiser or larger.

However there's two things two consider. The late seventies/early eighties weren't exactly the most turbulent times were they?

But most importantly, starting in '77, McCain starting serving as liaison to the Senate. From Wiki:



It was office job. I'm not trying to belittle McCain's leadership experience, but it just doesn't seem that applicable to the presidency.

The presidency is an office job.

I guess I jumped the gun by calling McCain's old job an office job. I retract that, but my point about leadership experience still stands. Neither candidate, in my opinion, has a lead on experience. The only candidate with the "right" experience was Hilary.

But the presidency isn't really an office job. :/

well, i dont really see too much wrong with mcCains choice here. sure it may not have been the best choice to spruce up the republican ticket, but if change is what your looking for, then she is certainly a departure from the usual politician. and not just because she is a woman.

she has a strong history of rooting out corruption, in her own party! she has more leadership experience than the rest of the republican and democratic tickets COMBINED (two terms as mayor, and two years as governor)... granted the leadership is over a small number of people. she seems decent with financial issues, harsh on excessive spending. i have yet to see a convincing reason why she would NOT make a decent VP.

...still not planing on voting for McCain though.

The excuse she gave wasn't very plausible, though

Read and cry: http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179

Go go og McCain!

I just fail to see how this is even a real issue. Seems to me that she'll welcome this investigation, just like those who called for it, to vindicate her.

I haven't heard any reference to her being a grandmother. It's possible since her oldest children are teenagers but I doubt it.

Someone got my referrence.