ROFL!!
"The gays are about to bomb us all!! DUCK AND COVER!!! DUCK AND COVER!!!"

Sorry. That just gave me the funniest damn mental image ever!

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited August 29, 2004).]

Heh, and we're back to this comparison again. How is the threat of Hitler's regime comparable to some supposed threat from homosexuality?

Also your whole conservative/liberal thing doesn't make much sense to me. Could you define conservative and liberal so I can get a better idea of what you mean?

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I was talking about the Conservative Party, the Tories. Of which Margarat Thatcher was leader in 1988, and Michael Howard leads today.

We've been here before Obi, and if you're going to post about things you don't know about, just think twice. You look like an idiot when you say things like that. Really.

I'm not having a go, but please, really just re-read what you type, then perhaps hit the back button - it'll save you a whole load of grief with these guys, not just me. (and I'm shutting up right now)

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

[This message has been edited by Martyn (edited August 29, 2004).]

So you're saying I'm wrong? Please tell me why. I'm all ears.

The threat of global domination by very evil people who massacre sections of humanity for political/personal reasons is by no means equal to any "threat" homosexuality exudes. End of story.



Your definition of conservative (as is mentioned above) is dodgy at best. You have problems accepting anything that isn't in the bible, and don't think that I dont see where you're coming from, but understand that you are a part of a very old fashioned and small section of the Christian community, whose views are not representative of the majority of this planet. Or even of christianity as a whole.

And franky, most liberal's behaviour is not "shocking". We accept people (Such as homosexuals) for who they are: human beings. We do not promote or idolise behaviour that is "different": liberals just ACCEPT it.



This is where you lose me. I don't vote conservative. Nor do most of our country. That is why we have a liberal Government at this time. Actually, most of our country doesn't vote, as politicians have such a bad reputation as to make people think "they're all as bad as each other, bollocks to this, I'm not wasting a vote on anybody".

People don't vote because they know what they're getting, they're voting for what they want. In any vote/poll, you should always consider who is voting: maybe most VOTERS want X,Y or Z, but most PEOPLE may not want the same. The difference may be subtle in print, but not subtle in truth.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

...and no eyes. You haven't paid attention to a damn thing anyone else has replied to you since you joined these forums. I've seen you consistently outright ignore well written posts that shoot down your arguments time after time after time. But hey, have fun with those ears.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1, 2 & 3 | Gonk WoW Petition <- SIGN!
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Thank you Mr Walters.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Thank you Jeff.

I haven't had a single argument coherently replied to. You have either no ability to effectively refute anything, or you just don't read what anybody says.


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Oh, and for ****'s sake, if you're going to bring Nazis into this argument (not that it needs them), at least learn to spell their name. It's only a massive part of our planet's history.

Thank you.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

He wasn't the one that first mentioned Nazis.

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

Sorry, Mort did, but he at least spelled it correctly....

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

No, no. I know what you think. Now tell me why you think it. After all every oppenion must have bassis, musn't it?

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited August 30, 2004).]

Ahahahahahhahahahahaahhaahahahahahahahaha.

No really, that's my only response. I read this post and laughed.


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what

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

I just spat tea on my laptop screen! That is just painfully funny.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

*me licks Obi's hand, hugs him, and sneezes in his general direction*

HAHA! FEAR THE PLAGUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY! Soon, you too will be a homosexual, and will have all of my devil given powers. You will be able to rule the world with an iron pinky in the air, while your fascist force of home decorators and fashion experts (Fashion, Fascist. They sound so much alike, that they must be the same! Besides, you'd probably spell them the same way, anyway obi) RULE THE WORLD. Muahahaha, pheer teh gayz!

Oh, and I'm a midget. You now also have midgetitus. Enter: Cabin Feaver 2: Gay Midget Fascist Feaver!

Me and my Nazism rule.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

Ok this is stupid. I apologize for not formulating my arguments very well. This entire thread, we've just been re-stating our positions. We are getting no-where at all. We both no the other side positions, and re-stating them won't do any good. The problem is the difference of our world-views. It's pointless to keep arguing this because we are not even arguing form the same premises. If you want to argue world view lets do that. However since we came to this argument assuming different premises, it's not possible for either side to win.

No, your problem is that you haven't read a single post in this thread but your own. And then, I wonder if you've even read those?

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

Aye, you ask for replies to your views, they are given, and you then ignore them, then go off on a tangent. If you want to be taken seriously, take the time to think about what you type in the first place, then actaully RESPOND to what people say to you.

And I don't mean respond like you did in your last post; respond to the points people make.

At the moment, what happens with you is this.

1. You make ludicrous claim.
2. People shoot you down.
3. You then change the subject, whilst acting indignant.
4. People take the piss further.
5. You make yet another ludicrous claim.

ad nauseum.

Break the cycle at point 3, actaully reply to people, and you'll do ok!

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Ah! I left the "ed" part out the first time reading it!

I had sex ed in 5th grade.



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"Bantha's are filthy animals.......I don't eat filthy animals."

"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
-Han Solo

This man is smart. I will never be so smart. My vocabulary will be ever lacking in contrast to martyn.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

I don't think you understand how debate is done. Your opponent will make points. In response, you will organize your argument such that you take each point, and refute it. If you want to make a coherent post, perhaps you should actually read over some of the posts, and respond to each point rather than just bumbling around and changing the topic. I'm saying this because I'm curious to hear the other side.

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You're not the only one!

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Hey, the ed in the health magazines is ok, since people used to get married at age 13 and 14, and plus, we don't want accidents. And by the way, [I'm not going to say anything like that again]

[This message has been edited by Jaiph (edited August 31, 2004).]

o.O

I laughed out loud when I read that.

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Map-Review | My Portfolio | The Matrix: Unplugged

Banks and banks of humming machinery! I've never seen so many knobs. We're going to have to do something, Charlie! Try pushing that button there. No? How about that one? No, not that one either. I know! I'll try pushing this one. Hold my hat will you? Good fellow.

I realize now that I really don't have the experience to argue the original topic. The wild tangents, however were not all brought up by me.

How ever on the topic of homosexuality I'm a Christian so I have my position. Your an atheist, so you have a different view. So no matter how eloquent or poor one sides argument is it won't do any good because your argument will be based on your premise and mine my own. We must go back a step so we can actually argue with the same premises. You can make a genius for homosexuality argument assuming there is no God, but since I presume that there is a God it can in no way be logical for me. Arguing on this level is pointless unless we both start from the same primacies, which we don’t. I’m just stating all the arguments against homosexuality from a Christian point of view, and your stating all your argument against it from a atheistic point of view. Since I’m not a atheist and you not a Christian, were getting nowhere. And it’s logically impossible to get anywhere.

Better

And I'm not an atheist, I'm agnostic. And to answer your point, there are plenty of christians who tolerate homosexuality round here, obviously there are also those that don't.

Homosexuality is forbidden in the Bible: so what? So is lying, and plenty of other sins. Some say they are disgusted by homosexuals, because the bible says so (I don't recall if you've said that, so I'm not pointing a finger!), but by that logic, this would apply to all sinners - but you'll find it never does. People aren't disgusted by liars, cheaters, theives etc in the same way: they just think homosexuals are dirty and this is their excuse.

And 90% of the gay people I know are fantastic people, and of that 90, I'd buy 100% of them a drink. The other ten are just not people I'd hang around with by choice.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Well, that I agree that people need a more humble attitude ward this issue, as all have sinned as fallen short of the glory of God. But some sins are worse than others. You could make the same comparison between lying and murder. (Albeit some what more extreme) They are both much worse in God's eye's than we can imagine, but murder is definitely and homosexuality are definitely worse.

I make a distinction between people who are actually Christians, and people and many if the people who just say they are. If you deny the Bible your basically just making it up as you go. Keep in mind when I say Christian I'm referring to people who accept the Bible to be the word of God, and believe in salvation by faith alone.

Actually, sin is sin in God's eyes. Lying == infidelity == murder == homosexuality == theft == etc.

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

That does invite people to compare homosexuality and murder, which is a bad thing though. I see what you're getting at though Wolfy.

Also Obi, there are Christians that believe in Salvation through works aren't there? I've studied Christianity in depth for a history course, and personally I too think Salvation by faith makes a great deal more sense - but aren't people who believe in it [S.B.Works] still Christian, regardless? They follow the Bible don't they?

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

I believe in salvation in by faith -- accept that Jesus was the Son of God, that He died for our sins, and that only through keeping His laws is salvation made possible. The people I know who believe in salvation by works have accepted the above, so I see no reason as to why they would be denied.

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

Salvation by works (to me) seems screwy: How do you know when you've done "enough"? Can you never do enough, but doing as much as you can is just enough when you die?!

Like I said up there, I'm agnostic, but find little things like this fascinating.

Salvation by faith seems far more logical and sensible, as long people don't take the piss (Because good works are meant to follow naturally from faith aren't they?) by just claiming to have faith, sitting on their arses then and gate-crashing heaven. Though I'm sure the bouncers would find them and kick them out.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Is... is obi carying on some sort of argument!? A miracle.!

Jesus really DOES save!

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

[This message has been edited by jEDIkIRBY (edited September 01, 2004).]

Miracle.

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

Yeah, what'd I say? :-P

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

Um, no. Not at all. The Bible specifically says that our salvation is by faith alone. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no-one can boast.” - Ephesians 2:9
Doing good things to get to heaven is not in accordance with the Bible. We can not pay for our sins at all. A good work would be flat lining; it could never begin to make up for the sins that we do every way. Even if we sinned only once God considers that enough to put us in hell. Romans 3:23 says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Besides we are all guilty because of Adam's sin. So anyway, if you happen to "be nice guy" it still won't cut it. The issue here is not "being a nice guy" or being “pretty good”. The definition of sin is falling short of or transgressing God's law.

/end sermon

So if all one has to do is have faith, then Christian homsexuals are going to heaven.

Or did I miss something?

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"I'd rather be hated for who I am rather than loved for who I pretend to be." -Janis Joplin

Fairy nuff, maybe the salvation by works stuff was one of those things edited out over the years... (My basis of study was 16th Century European history, and the origins of the great Schsim)

Or maybe it was just a Catholic thing. I studied this 5 years ago so it is all a bit blurry!

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Your god's a jerk.

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Roach - Gyring and gimbling in the wabe...
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