yeah, darn those employed people who don't have he...

er

darn those unemployed people who don't have hea...

oh.

i am going to argue one point here. WE CANT AFFORD THIS! 940,000,000$$$$ that is almost a TRILLION DOLLARS! we do NOT have this money! the whole "deficit neutral" thing is a sham, it relys on borrowing from medicare and social security... BOTH of which are near insolvent as it is! someone said "oh at least we have our foot in the door now" no. we dont. wat we have is a god damned solid gold toilet with a trillion dollar turd proping the door open. let me say it one more time, just in case... we dont have the money for this and we really dont have anyplace to get the money from.

and if obama manages to push "comprehensive immigration reform" through, we will have another 10 to 20 million people to ensure.

so never mind if the bill is good or not, we cant afford it!

The US can afford a lot.

They can afford to embarass themselves, and still think they are king of the ****ing universe.

That too, perhaps.

If we can afford a trillion dollars for a war on "terror" why can't we afford a trillion dollars on healthcare? If we'd quit trying to kill brown people on the other side of the world & focus on domestic issues, we'd probably be able to afford a lot more. I mean, we've spent over $700 billion dollars in Iraq alone, apparently over "weapons of mass destruction" that quite possibly never existed yet we have a real, tangible problem in our own country & so many ***** & moan about the cost. I don't get it.

Are you talking Americans or Canadians?

If you're working in the USA, it's highly likely you don't have health coverage. Which is the exact opposite of what you'd expect.

we're talking about Americans after this healthcare bill goes into effect.

nuanced opinions itt

K, my post applies then.

...The bill we're talking about will fine employers if they do not offer healthcare coverage.

Only some employers, and only if they receive subsidized insurance, and only if it's quite a few employees. That's a lot of ifs.

I'm not sure I understand your opinion. They say the real number of Americans that want insurance and can't get it is about 12 million. Depending on what figure you choose to believe you can go all the way up to about 40 million, which includes the rich that don't need it, the young that think they don't need it, and illegals. Still seems too low to say that it is highly likely, which implies majority, that the average American worker doesn't have health coverage.



Not suggesting anything. Just pointing out that the bill hires 16K+ iRs employees presumably to administer and enforce all the new taxes and penalities associated with the bill.

So, just out of curiousity, for those of you that have desperately hoped for health care reform, do you feel relieved now that you will be required to purchase it? That is, of course, if your employer isn't forced to provide it which will essentially be paid for with wages you won't receive.

I don't understand why they think it's ok to FORCE me to get health insurance. **** you I don't want it now. It's the last thing I'm worried about. I've got a million other things to worry about but now lets stack on health insurance.. when did I vote for this ****?

Because if you go to the hospital and you can't afford it, they still have to treat you, and that money has to come from somewhere?

No they don't, they don't have to treat me, I don't have to go to the hospital.

What's funny is that Congress has finally done something right and the people are complaining because of their own ignorance.

Not that I can say I'm shocked...

Sheeple...pft.

Strange, I know. The health care situation in the United States is finally fixed and people don't like it. WTF?

No one is saying it's fixed. You're arguing that it will be worse than it already is. For some, you're right. But what I find funny is when a disaster hits another country, we shame anyone for thinking we shouldn't rush in and provide medical care at our countries expense. Heaven forbid we help ourselves for a change.

If you're in a car wreck and your brain is hanging outside of your skull, you're going to the hospital, unless you've got a DNR. And since it's life threatening, they're by law required to treat you (this law has been in effect for years and years and years and years).

Most people would rather be treated than die. Call me crazy.

I'm DNR. **** you guys, I'm leaving.

I would probably already be dead therefor it wouldn't matter.

But it's not about that. I don't liked to be forced to anything, especially forced by the government to do anything. I like the idea of smaller government, and I don't think this stuff is a good idea.

You're forced to have car insurance too. I guess you hate that as well. But frankly I think I'd be more angry when the guy who totaled my car doesn't have a dime to pay me, and didn't have it.

I do. I have to pay $90 a month for something I've never used. And when I do need it, they're going to try to screw me over.

[EDIT = Cool Matty was faster than me. ]

I have the same opinion when it comes to the wear your set belt law.. I have to wear my seat belt because you think it could save my life, I can't just put my seat belt on because I want to, I have to put it on in fear of getting a fine. That's what big governments want, fines and more money.

As a matter of fact I don't, there is no public option? what am I going to do?

If only everyone was trustworthy enough to set aside money to pay for when you total their car. But the world is far from that sort of perfect.

BTW the insurance argument isn't going to change my mind. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege, I see nothing wrong with forcing drivers to have insurance. You don't have to own a car so don't try to put that in my face.

Nope, not the same issue. That's about personal safety. This is about other people having to deal with your problems.

Edit: You get car insurance primarily so that when you hit someone, you can pay them back for the damage. You get health insurance primarily so that when the doctors have to put your brain back in your skull, the people who did have health insurance don't have to cover your costs.

And yet, since Car Insurance was made a requirement by law, more 'mom and pop' insurance companies have popped up and increased competition, lowering prices.

Actually, in my state (not sure this is a federal law), hospitals must treat you if you come in with life-threatening issues. Even if you can't pay for it.

But ER visits don't really tell the whole story. I don't think they have to give you chemo or remove your brain tumor if you can't pay. We end up paying more for people because they let their ear infections get so bad their ear drum ruptures, or they allow their small flesh would to become infected, or whatever. But then we end up paying less because we don't treat poor people's cancer (that doesn't necessarily have to be terminal, if you have the $$).

The fundamental issue for me here is that people suck. They spend their money on plasma TVs and new cars and cigarettes and they don't buy health insurance for their children. This is wrong.

Unfortunately, it's impossible and illegal to have government agents monitor the budgets of loser parents and make them buy insurance for their kids.

(Actually, I shouldn't say "unfortunately" to that, I don't want the government involved in budgeting, but you get the idea.)

Don't worry it won't be long.

I guess breathing is now a privilege, too.

hahaha nice

Yeah no **** I'm not happy about any of this, by the way. But after having a son of my own, I am willing to help share the cost of providing health care to children who need it. Unfortunately this bill is way beyond that. Hell, I'm up for helping anyone who needs it, really, but the problem is they are driving a new accord that cost $30k while I'm driving a 10 year old ford with 150k miles on it. They're watching 65" flat screens and playing on their family pack of new quads and I'm doing to the responsible thing by living within my means. I hate that I have to pay for health care for people that won't sacrifice their luxuries for what I think everyone should consider necessities.

Also for the record, I'm no fan of insurance companies either -- health, care, life, etc. They all seem to suck to some degree, based on articles I read.

However, we've been extremely satisfied with our employer-provided health plans. We pay for some of them, we have copays and deductibles and whatnot, but when my wife got kidney cancer, she went from the ER on a Sunday to having her kidney removed the following Friday. Hard to complain. I don't know the total cost but our share was under $1000 I believe.

I remember the exact same arguments roughly 5 or more years ago when Bush was in office. All Americans could do was talk about what he was doing was the right thing, etc etc. Even though the rest of the world told you you're going downhill and taking the rest of us with you... Yet all during his presidency up until near the end when you guys FINALLY seen the truth (too little too late unfortunately) most americans ( I am sure if you do a post search on here you'll find most people here were on Bush's side initially) were adamant that what he was doing was correct.

Flash forward a few years and pretty much everyone has switched viewpoints.

Flash forward a few more years and I am willing to bet that at least half of you will have changed your tunes as well in regards to this health care reform.

Give it time, a chance, see if it works before you judge it. Americans just love to complain.

There's nothing to give time to. The bill doesn't do anything useful. It is not universal healthcare, it's not going to make our country better.

And I have no idea what you were referring to when you say "finally seen the truth".