[QUOTE=Glyde Bane]If he had intended things to be a certain way to the letter, he wouldn't have given us a choice. He gave a choice, that must mean he expects some of us to choose the other path.

Or God's a hardass socialist or something, I wouldn't know.


(Disclaimer: I know it's not their choice to be gay, but I'm trying to cater to Gold)[/QUOTE]

He gave us a choice because Satan challenged his sovrenty (ouch I know spelling) and we must choose. God or Satan.
God: Do as I say, and you will live for ever.
Satan: Do anything you want, even though you will die and never be able to enjoy any of the riches that life offers.

Then why are gay people made the way they are? Set up for failure?

...Lmao

I'm still waiting for one of you wacky zealots (SF_GoldG_01 for instance) to refute the Swedish research that proves a causal relationship between pheromone receptors and homosexuality.

If you can call that a living. Many would argue life without what we know as free will isn't life.

I admit that their could be a gay disorder or something, but its not outside of a method of control.

And that is all I will say. I will leave this thread before I get myself banned or such. I have other affairs more important to attend to than to argue with a lost battle. In short, you lose nothing by following the bible, and it brings true happiness. Try it, you'll be surprised.

I'm with the pally here... So God is condemning his folks against their will (Back to chemistry, now. I'm tired of playing with your rules.)? That's horrible, and not anything a god would do.


Also, I was always under the impression that God and Satan were working together. Satan's job was just to keep the wrong people out of Heaven.


Plus: That's the second time you said you were leaving the thread. You didn't leave the first time, why leave now? I'm sure your games / movies / other games require much more of your attention than a losing arguement, no?

...LMAO!

omg omg

.


ur face is light and cocaine white

Yep, just like every other intellectually incontinent cultist: when you feel that rumbling you just run away to worship your porcelain goddess.

If you can't defend your beliefs then they are worthless. I am going to dog you in every single thread you post in until you either refute my argument or you admit that God is the one who makes people gay.

Tried it. I think I'd be happier following Where's Wally.

I'll e-mail Bethel and get a scientificaly juiced up response from them, with some reasoning from the scriptures.

God does not condemn a blind man for not reading the bible. Why would he condemn a some one who has a some sort of disorder which attracts he/she to the same sex? He would condemn a blind man for not listening, and a gay person for not trying, but if a blind man were to listen, and a gay person to try, mercy would most likely be extended beyond for them. (My own reasoning).

"If you can call that a living. Many would argue life without what we know as free will isn't life."

What else do you want in life besides a good house, a family, health, peace, happiness, many forms of family friendly entertainment. Just recently we and the local Witness got together and played musical instruments as well as sung many songs, and the entire neighborhood loved it, infact, they didn't want us to stop playing and singing. Funny how they were mostly Catholics.

God promises you a land of peace, where there is no war, sickness, death or imperfection. Where you will have your own home which you will build, where you will meet past relatives, friends long gone, and be free from temptation. Where food will be in abundance, and one will learn accurately about everything. From the smallest parts of cells/molecules/atoms and all you ever wanted to know without any error. A perfect world, if you keep your integrity.

Ok I'm not homosexual but that makes me sick... when did you become the judge of the earth? When did you have the right to define someone's free choice as a disorder?

Judge not les thee be judged?

For "following the bible" you're quite the hypocrite.

I will counter everything you say with undenyable points in which you'll only have on solution for: Deny I ever said it.

I'm sure Jon'C would do the same

I'm not judging any one, I'm just simply stated, that if they wanted to be gay, they could choose or not. If you were "born" gay, you could choose to be or not. Just like some people are born "normal" and choose to be gay. I've seen it before.

Be sure to use an unadulterated version of the bible.

And now, good bye, I will continue this tomorrow, if there is a tomorrow.

I translate this... "OMG THEY PROVED ME WRONG I HAVE TO PRAY TO MY INVISIBLE MAN NOW TO REGAIN MY FAITH SO I MAY SMITE THE EVIL MASSASSIANS TOMMARROW!"

No, you haven't.

No thanks, I'd prefer a response from a credible biochemist. Like... peer review of that report? Maybe the results from an independently-conducted repeat of the experiment that disproves the results? You know, proof? From someone who actually knows what they're talking about? As opposed to the retarded ramblings of a cultist. I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about.

I might as well ask Jenny who works the late shift at McDonalds' drivethrough about biochemistry if I'm going to ask Mexico's JW head office. Even the best Mexican doctors aren't exactly, ...you know... the world leaders of endocrinology.

God does not condemn a blind man for not reading the bible because He made him blind. God does not condemn a homosexual man for being gay because He created him that way. It is His will and it is His plan. All men are created in the image of God, equal in the eyes of the Lord, and judgement of man is reserved for Him alone.

God gave us free will. May he have mercy upon those who would squander it.

That's alright, my bibles aren't translated by insane cultists. They're translated by linguists.

So perfect I had to post it...

[23:42] <+Slayder> What version of Christian is the Gold guy anyways?
[23:42] <+Slayder> There is so many of them...
[23:43] <&Jon`C> Jehovah's Witness.
[23:43] <+Deadman> yeah, it's funny how he was tallking about catholicism being contradictory
[23:43] <+dud|laundry> evil?
[23:43] <&Jon`C> The limp-wristed and ineffectual counterpart to Mormon.
[23:43] <+Slayder> hahah you guys can't win vs a Jehovah Witness they never give up.
[23:43] <&Jon`C> I don't like cults. Especially when they call themselves christian.
[23:43] <+Deadman> sure you can, you just need a bat
[23:44] <+Slayder> Well they believe in God... I thought cults only followed human leaders?
[23:44] <+Deadman> no
[23:44] <&Jon`C> I'm pretty sure to kill them you need to sever the head or destroy the brain, Deadman.
[23:44] <+dud|laundry> pope?
[23:44] <+Deadman> you can do that with a bat Jon
[23:44] <+Roach> the pope is like the queen zombie o_O
[23:44] <&Jon`C> the pope is the Vicar of the Lord Jesus Christ on Earth.
[23:44] <+Slayder> No Jon you cut one head off a JW and 3 more pop out, it's like a Hydra.
[23:44] <&Jon`C> nuclear weapons then.

I'll ask my question here, I agree with Vin after thinking about it I shouldn't derail other threads no matter how much you stink of irony...

If a Jehovah Witness hates war and doesn't support there government by going to it... why do you play games like AA that were made to glorify it?

Gold, if you're going to talk about fabricated and/or scripture-less beliefs...

Beth Sarim - Whoops, No Armageddon

Whoops, World Didn't End (Again)

Let's not forget that favorite doctrine of "oh, we misinterpreted the signs, it's going to happen on this date" that everyone loves about our good friend, the Watchtower.

People have been predicting the end of the world for mellenia. I don't think it's ever gonna happen.

What ever happened to that Sept. 12 nucular war?

I never knew that Gold was a JW. Suddenly the pieces of the puzzle begin to fall into place...

[QUOTE=Vincent Valentine]People have been predicting the end of the world for mellenia. I don't think it's ever gonna happen.[/QUOTE]

The best thing about your prediction is if your wrong, who will know?

That only applies if you predicted too late.

There's no one more annoying than someone who is antagonistic about their beliefs.

The open mind sure is one of the most annoying things.

I believe some of the people in this thread have you on iggy, Kirby.

-And JC isn't a hippocrate, he just said that he's in charge now, so Mosaic law no longer applies to Christians. Being agnostic protestant/athiest, I happen to wholeheartedly agree with him on that.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Actually, it'd be interesting to see who does!

I wonder if there's a way to check.

-I just remember seeing someone in the Showcase forum who posted a pic of him iggying you. Can't remember who.

That was YourOwners. He doesn't like me because I don't put up with his theiving of other people's work, or his racist, sexist, pot-induced posts.

Speaking of which, back to mansex and Jesus, two of my favorite topics.
Now, since the only thing JC said about gays is "Let he who is without sin be the first to insult his shoes" or whatever, and the classic Leviticus lines no longer apply, is it bad to be christian and gay? I mean, only a bible scholar could really tell you, and they're applying their own slant to it. Since God isn't actually supposed to talk directly to Christians (not a dogma reference, this is actually true, though it might have been "repealed" or might only apply to Quakers or something), how would you really know if it's right?
I guess the only way to be certain of whether your sexuality is compatible with your religious choices is to really explore your own soul, and try to determine if it's right with you. If your pastor says "no no no" but the depths of your soul say "yes yes yes", then maybe you should just let it be and get on with your gay life (used both in the homosexual and happy manner here). If you really feel that there's something horribly wrong with you, then maybe try talking with your pastor or whoever about your inner conflict.

-I guess what I'm saying is... if you're dead-set on Christianity, try to meditate the gay away? That wasn't what I was going for, but if you feel that you really cannot happily be both a homosexual and a Christian, then I guess you have to decide if you want to be part of the Christ club or the Elton John club.

[QUOTE=Vincent Valentine]
I'm trying to find/prepare a whole bunch of silly things the bible says, if you give me a while.[/QUOTE]
I know I'm late but...

In Genesis 3:16 god punishes all women, innocent or not, with painful childbirth and subjugation to men.

In Genesis 7:4 god has a bad day at the office, thus decides to drown innocent babies, and animals both wild and domestic.

In Exodus 4:11 god boasts about making people handicapped.

In Exodus 4:23 god resorts to hostage taking and terrorism in order to get his own way. He does this via threatening a baby. Soon, he is slaughtering little babies all across Egypt.

In Exodus 9:19-20 god slaughters Egyptian cattle. Sometimes, cow tipping just isn't enough.

In Exodus 9:29-30 god kills off innocent babies, and whatever cows he missed earlier.

In Exodus 20:17 god tells us not to free another's slaves. Abolitionists beware!!

In Exodus 32:27-28 god tells the sons to slaughter their neighbors: 3,000 men are slain.

In Leviticus 19:20-22 god demands that raping a slave woman is punishable by scourging the victim. The rapist is to be forgiven.

In Leviticus 25:44-46 god tells his followers to make slaves of their neighbors.

In Leviticus 27:3-7 god helpfully provides a pricing guide. According to this guide, as a male between the ages of 18 and 60 years (the most expensive category), I am worth approximately US$25. How much are you worth to god?

In Numbers 14:18 god's idea of justice is explained: little children are to be punished for their great-great grandparents transgressions.

In Numbers 31:1-54 god tells his followers to commit genocide, "sparing" only the virgin girls, who are to be raped. Even god gets some "unspared" virgins.

In Numbers 33:4 god kills of another batch of Egyptian babies. Abortion is a sin because...?

In Deuteronomy 2:33-36 god demands genocide again. No mention of virgin girls this time, unless these children are raped to death...

In Deuteronomy 7:2 god demands more genocide from his followers.

In Deuteronomy 13:12-16 god demands new and improved genocide, now including cattle. Oh, wait, we've had that before. Damn cows.

In Deuteronomy 32:21-26 god glories in being a psychotic terrorist. Don't miss the atrocities of Deuteronomy 28, either!

In Joshua 6:18-19 the omnipotent creator is short of cash, again.

In Joshua 8:22-26 god demands more genocide, plus some more slavery as detailed in Joshua 9:21-27, but this time, in Joshua 10:10-11, we get slaughter and a chase scene!! Go, god!!
In Joshua 10:28-32 god demands still more genocide.

In Joshua 11:6-17 god still demands more genocide. There are more exceptions to "Thou shalt not kill" than there are to a rich man's tax code.

In Judges 1:2-7. god's takes a break from genocide, has his followers kill "only" 10,000 people, but at least they get to torture and mutilate somebody by cutting off both thumbs and big toes!

In Judges 1:12-13 Caleb offers his daughter as prize to anyone who conquers the City of Debir. The girl's cousin wins the contest, thus the prize.

In Judges 1:17-19 god gets back to good, ol' regular genocide. Killing innocent people is serious work!!

In Judges 2:14 god has a temper-tantrum and sells Israel into slavery.

In Judges 3:28-29 & 4:15-16 god reverts to, you guessed it, genocide.

In Judges 5:30 god hands out a damsel or two to each of his rapist soldiers. Booty Call!!

In Judges 10:17 god gets angry at Israel, again, and sells them into slavery, again.

In Judges 12:6 god slays 42,000 innocent people because someone with a speech impediment mispronounces the word "shibboleth". I'll bet you thought the word "lisp" was cruel jest.

In Judges 15:4-8 a "righteous" Samson captures 300 foxes, ties their tails together, and sets them on fire. Abusing animals is almost as righteous as killing babies, apparently.

In Judges 19:22-30, after taking in a traveling Levite, the host offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine to a mob of perverts (who want to have sex with his guest). The mob refuses the daughter, but accepts the concubine and they "abuse her all night." The next morning she crawls back to the doorstep and dies. The Levite mounts her dead body on an *** and takes her home. Then he chops her body up into twelve pieces and sends them to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Judges 21:7-23 in order to find wives for the Benjamites, who were unwilling to use their own daughters, the other tribes attacked and killed all occupants of a city except for the young virgins. These virgins were then given to the Benjamites as "wives".

In 1 Samuel 2:10 if god doesn't like you he will send a thunderstorm to break your body into little pieces. In 1 Samuel 2:31-34, if god really doesn't like you, he will cut off your arm, consume your eyes, grieve your heart, and slay your sons & grandfathers. In 1 Samuel 5:6, 9, and 12 we learn that if god really, really doesn't like you, he will give you hemorrhoids in your "secret parts".

In 1 Samuel 5:11 god wipes out another city.

In 1 Samuel 15:2-3 god demands more genocide, this time as punishment for some no doubt petty transgression committed hundreds of years previously by the forefathers of these innocent people.

In 1 Samuel 15:7-34 god goads Saul into torturing & slaying his prisoner, a King.

In Matthew 5:17 Jesus strongly approves of the law & the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.

In Matthew 8:21 Jesus shows no compassion for the bereaved, saying to a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead."

In Matthew 8:32 Jesus abuses animals by sending some devils into a herd of pigs, causing the pigs to run off a cliff & drown in the sea below. The acorn does not fall far from the tree. Was there a local shortage of Egyptian cows? Moo!

In Matthew 10:15 Jesus becomes a terrorist, and threatens genocide against cities.

In Matthew 10:28 Jesus tries to scare people by telling them that his dad can beat up their dad.

In Matthew 11:20-24 Jesus threatens more cities.

In Matthew 12:47-49 "Mister Family Values" himself (Jesus) is disrespectful to his mother and rude to his brothers.

In Matthew 13:41-42 Jesus threatens to send his angels against any who offend him, and send them straight to hell. Love, peace, tolerance, and forgiveness are beneath him, apparently.

In Matthew 15:4-7 Jesus commits hypocrisy by demanding all others to honor their parents. "Sorry about being rude back in Matthew 12, Mom."

In Matthew 18:8-9 Jesus advocates self-mutilation, but for others, not him. He's perfect, thank you.

In Matthew 18:25 Jesus advocates slavery.

In Matthew 25:29 Jesus proposes a system of economy where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In Mark 5:12-13 Jesus spooks 2,000 pigs, causing them to jump of a cliff and drown in the sea. Is this evidence of more animal abuse, or is the story from Matthew 8:32 getting better with each telling?

In Mark 6:11 Jesus resorts to threatening cities again. Die, innocent babies, Die!!

In Mark 7:9-13 Jesus criticizes people for not killing their children, as they should have, according to Old Testament law. The same law Jesus broke when he was disrespectful to his Mother in Matthew 12:47-49.

In Mark 10:29-30 Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and children.

In Mark 11:13-14 Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing fruit, even though it was out of season. Apparently, "Mister Perfect" wasn't much of an agronomist, or ethicist.

In Luke 8:20-21 Jesus is disrespectful to his mother and rude to his brothers, again. Or still?

In Luke 8:27-37 Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. This story does get better with each telling!!

In Luke 10:10-15 Jesus terrorizes entire cities, claiming they will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. No doubt these people preferred their pigs.

In Luke 12:46-47 Jesus likens god to a sadistic, diabolical slave-owner, who will beat you "with many stripes".

In Luke 14:26 Jesus decides that it is not enough for men to abandon their families; they must actively hate them, too. Where is the love??

In Luke 16:17 Jesus declares that all the vicious, irrational laws of the Old Testament are binding forever.

In Luke 17:27 Jesus talks about Noah, neatly demonstrating his own ignorance of science, history, and justice.

In John 2:4 Jesus is, again, rude to his mother. She seems so nice, too.

In John 5:14 Jesus announces that god handicaps people as just punishment for their sins.

In John 7:8-10 Jesus lies to his family about attending a feast.

In Acts 5:1-10 Peter, with god's help, kills a man who sold his possessions, but did not fork over all of the earnings. Why is the omnipotent creator always short of cash?

In Acts 13:48 we learn that only pre-ordained people would be allowed in heaven. So much for freewill...

I really can't be bothered to read the entire thread, as it's beginning to anger me somewhat.

Now I know that Christianity's much more widely spready and heeded to over in America, but come on people. The bible is over a thousand years old. Practically all of it is conjecture and very little of it applies to modern day society.

Particularly, I am irked by Catholicism and how little of it is relevant to today's world and the negative effects the Pope and Vatican's teachings can have. Telling Africans that condoms are pourous and don't protect against AIDs leds to tens or hundreds of thousands of people being infected. Outright anti-abortionism also infuriates me, as you really do have to look at the individual case and how that pregnancy may affect the mother, both physically and emotionally. You're no less selfish than you seem think any woman having an abortion is. You'd rather inflict mental trauma or spit bile at a vunerable human being then back down on your antiquated ideals.

Don't even get me started on homosexuality. Seriously, it's a result of genetics. All you have to do is look throughout the animal kingdom. Beasts don't have the thought-process to make a conscious decision to be homosexual, yet we see it in practically every species. As this is the case, why would your God - not that he exists - create creatures and people who are born or destined to become gay?

I personally am a man of science, logic and common sense. The bible relates to none of these.

It seems that a large majority of devoted Christians seem to pick and choose what they wish to follow from the bible. There are positive points to be taken from the bible's teachings, but this is also true for literary works such as Aesop's fables, more so for the latter as it doesn't preach intolerance and hatred. You should pick and choose what to take from these tales and apply that to how you live your life. Don't blindly follow a bunch of what is almost certainly make believe, purely because you were indoctrinated into it via your upbringing.

This may come across as patronising or condescending, but I really would be interested to see if anybody who disagrees with my points made can come up with valid counter-points and not resort to spouting blind faith with no evidence to back it up.

Well, clearly, you could do whatever you wanted, enjoy ALL the riches that life has to offer and die and go to hell.

Recusant, that was amazing. Too bad I doubt any of the X-ians will bother reading or considering that as valid.

It really does show what a ***** God can be, though.

Eve broke the law first; it's simply part of the punishment for breaking God's only commandment at the time.



No. If you read Genesis 6, the entire Earth was filled with wickedness. Thus, God decided to restart with a clean slate.



Exodus 4

God's telling Moses, who says he's not the best speaker, that He will give Moses the ability to speak well to the masses.



God knows that Pharaoh won't listen to Moses, despite all the demonstration of His power. So, he tells Moses what God will have to do in order to force Pharaoh to listen to God.



God gave them warning. They didn't believe God.



That's not Exodus 9:29-30.



Not really.



They were slain for idolatry when they were being led by God out of Egypt.



No.



No.



No.



God's punishment of one man is visited upon the subsequent generations out of a simple cause-and-effect relation.

If any of the citations following this one are just as inane, I won't bother with them. I've got DB homework to do.

Vin: the reason a lot of Christians ignore this garbage is because it is garbage. People post it on the internet thinking "lol bible is weerd d00d" and don't bother to actually check the citations. Idiots like Recusant then spam it on other parts of the internet, unable to think for themselves and actually check what they're saying.

I would just like to say, as I have in many threads before, that Gold is not a good example of one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Please don't have something against the whole religion based on ANYTHING he says.

Seriously, just think about how much intelligence Gold has shown on every other subject he talks about. Yeah. If anyone has any serious questions they can PM me.