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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Speaking of high horses..
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Speaking of high horses..
2006-09-18, 9:32 AM #161
Well if NoEsc is a Jehovah Witness too, maybe Gold is just a plain idiot... cause I thought it was a Jehovah Witness thing to be closed minded zelot.
2006-09-18, 9:41 AM #162
According to the Bible, God is love. No immediate reference to the line that says so, but I'm sure some of you will know this from the top of their head.

Let's state that God does not like his plans or will to be violated. People that try doing so are sent to Hell. In effect, he doesn't want himself to be violated.

If God is love, he wouldn't want people to obstruct love, for they would obstruct God himself. So why would any Christian in their right mind portest against the love between two people, no matter what their gender is?
2006-09-18, 10:34 AM #163
gothix, you rawk.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2006-09-18, 11:01 AM #164
Originally posted by gothicX:
According to the Bible, God is love. No immediate reference to the line that says so, but I'm sure some of you will know this from the top of their head.

Let's state that God does not like his plans or will to be violated. People that try doing so are sent to Hell. In effect, he doesn't want himself to be violated.

If God is love, he wouldn't want people to obstruct love, for they would obstruct God himself. So why would any Christian in their right mind portest against the love between two people, no matter what their gender is?



Keep in mind that God's most prominent aspect is holiness. God can only show love to people who are on that same footing otherwise God would be unjust and therefore be violating His own nature. That is why sin must be punished or attoned for before love can be shown.
2006-09-18, 11:09 AM #165
[Stop being useless. I'm subtracting 10 from your post count. -Vin]
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-09-18, 11:24 AM #166
being sent to hell for silly stuff isn't very just
2006-09-18, 11:33 AM #167
Originally posted by FastGamerr:
This thread is too gay.

RANDOM TYRA BANKS PIC


God I love you.
2006-09-18, 12:09 PM #168
Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
Keep in mind that God's most prominent aspect is holiness. God can only show love to people who are on that same footing otherwise God would be unjust and therefore be violating His own nature. That is why sin must be punished or attoned for before love can be shown.


As I said before, you're forgetting what time we live in.

[quote=myself dammit]Christians get their ideas from a book that was written presumably around the time of the Roman empire. I think we've all heard of the giant orgies back then, where nobody cared where (excuse the language) they shoved it into, as long as it felt good.

Nowadays, such orgies only happen in certain movies- sorry if that ruined anyone's dream. Nobody in the Bible mentions it being wrong to love someone of the same gender, just the sexual intercourse. In effect, we can safely say that if sex between two people of the same gender is only a way to express their love for eachother, it's cool with God. After all, isn't he said to be a 'God of love'?


Some people don't seem to get that though.[/quote]


And even if it was meant for this times, it makes no sense. If holiness is God's prime aspect, and he willingly takes that over love between two humans, which he apparently created to love eachother (as Jon`C pointed out), that effectively contradicts himself in his own ways.

There's three ways to see this; the first one being that Christians misinterpretated the Bible. Wouldn't be too strange, since it's happened before, right? The second is that God doesn't exist. I doubt many Christians would accept that. Third is to be a stubborn, brainwashed believer of something that's wrong. Which is, I'm afraid, what you're going to choose.
2006-09-18, 12:29 PM #169
Not to mention heaven/hell, black/white is not justice. There is a middle ground in justice.. so the whole justice thing to get into heaven is out the window. If not, then why is there a discrepancy between God's view of justice and our view? Weren't we created in his image?
2006-09-18, 12:39 PM #170
Aw man no Tyra Banks revolution :(
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-09-18, 2:18 PM #171
you seem to believe that a lot of homosexual relationships are built on love rather than lust. God did not create homosexuality and he never intended for two men/women to be together. The practice of homosexuality is simply human depravity made manifest, there is nothing of God in it.

Also, it's quite a stretch to go from loving someone of the same gender (in the sense of a deep friendship) to end up having sex with them. You seem to think that it's all one and the same. ITS NOT. The Bible is very clear that homosexual sex of any kind is sin, whether it is done out of love or not.

Originally posted by GothicX:

As I said before, you're forgetting what time we live in.


God is unchanging. The fact that our culture has changed doesn't mean a thing; what was wrong then is still wrong now.
2006-09-18, 2:24 PM #172
Originally posted by paladinZ:
Not to mention heaven/hell, black/white is not justice. There is a middle ground in justice.. so the whole justice thing to get into heaven is out the window. If not, then why is there a discrepancy between God's view of justice and our view? Weren't we created in his image?


We are imperfect fallen creatures by our very nature. Even though humanity was originally created perfect and in harmony with God's divine nature, original sin created a barrier between God and us. We are unable to conform to God's ideal standard, so people try to create a standard of morality that is somewhat possible to keep. To God, our system of justice means nothing because it still falls short of His.

Black/white is perfect justice because God is absolutely soveriegn. You are either righteous before God, or you're not. It's that simple and there is no middle ground.
2006-09-18, 2:33 PM #173
I Can't believe how... On fire this thread is... :v:
2006-09-18, 3:08 PM #174
Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
you seem to believe that a lot of homosexual relationships are built on love rather than lust. God did not create homosexuality and he never intended for two men/women to be together. The practice of homosexuality is simply human depravity made manifest, there is nothing of God in it.

Where did you come to the conclusion that homosexuals cannot love? Are you saying that a part of love, being homosexual love, doesn't exist? That'd imply a part of God doesn't exist.

Quote:
Also, it's quite a stretch to go from loving someone of the same gender (in the sense of a deep friendship) to end up having sex with them. You seem to think that it's all one and the same. ITS NOT.

Errr, you're kind of making wrong assumptions again. If you're in love with a girl, does that mean you want to be close friends with a girl? No, it means having babies, getting married, the whole deal. Homosexuals, wether it may surprise you or not, have the exact same feelings, aside from the babies, but for people of the same gender.

Quote:
The Bible is very clear that homosexual sex of any kind is sin, whether it is done out of love or not.

As sex is love, God is a sin, if I am to believe you.

Quote:
God is unchanging. The fact that our culture has changed doesn't mean a thing; what was wrong then is still wrong now.

Yup, God is unchanging. Thus, God will still dislike people having homosexual sex purely for the point of having sex at large Roman orgies. However, those stopped existing, if you didn't know that yet. The homosexuality YOU are ranting on and calling wrong, is LOVE. You're disproving your own God once more.


Seriously, you're making it look like a sin to be Christian.
2006-09-18, 3:14 PM #175
Originally posted by Wolfy:
Gold, if you're going to talk about fabricated and/or scripture-less beliefs...
Beth Sarim - Whoops, No Armageddon[/url]
Whoops, World Didn't End (Again)[/url]
Let's not forget that favorite doctrine...


Closing Days of J. F. Rutherford

Brother Rutherford had developed cancer of the colon and was in poor health at the St.*Louis convention. Still, he managed to give five strong discourses. Following the convention, however, his condition worsened, and he was compelled to have a colostomy. Arthur Worsley recalls the day Brother Rutherford said good-bye to the Bethel family. “He confided in us that he was going to undergo a serious operation and that whether he lived through it or not, he was confident that we would keep on proclaiming Jehovah’s name. He .*.*. concluded by saying, ‘So, if God wills, I will see you again. If not, keep up the fight.’ There was not a dry eye in the family.”

Brother Rutherford, 72 years of age, survived the surgery. Shortly thereafter he was taken to a residence in California he had named Beth-Sarim. It was evident to his loved ones, and to medical experts, that he would not recover. In fact, he required further surgery.

CLOSING DAYS AT BETH-SARIM

By November Brother Rutherford’s critical illness had gained ground and he was compelled to have an operation at Elkhart, Indiana. Thereafter he expressed a desire to go to California. So he was taken to a San Diego residence known as “Beth-Sarim.” For some time it was apparent to his associates and the best medical experts that he could not recover.

Briefly it may be said that Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment during 1918-1919 because of his faithfulness to Jehovah. Thereafter he had only one good lung. It was virtually impossible for him to remain in Brooklyn, New York, during the winter and still carry out his duties as the Society’s president. In the 1920’s he went to San Diego under a doctor’s treatment. The climate there was exceptionally good and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible in San Diego. That is what Rutherford did ultimately.

In time, a direct contribution was made for the purpose of constructing a house in San Diego for Brother Rutherford’s use. It was not built at the expense of the Watch Tower Society. Concerning this property, the 1939 book Salvation stated: “At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929, there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth-Sarim.”

Sister Hazel Burford was one of the nurses who cared for Brother Rutherford during his final illness at Beth-Sarim, where he was taken in November 1941. She tells us: “We had the interesting times, for he got to where he would sleep all day and then all night long he was busy with the Society’s business and kept us on the move.” One morning about the middle of December three brothers, including Brother Knorr, arrived from Brooklyn. Sister Burford recalls: “They spent several days with him going over the annual report for the Yearbook and other organizational matters. After their departure, Brother Rutherford continued to weaken and, about three weeks later, on Thursday, January 8, 1942, he faithfully finished his earthly course and graduated into fuller service privileges in the courts of his heavenly Father.” Later that day the news was sent to the Brooklyn headquarters by long-distance telephone at 5:15 p.m.

How was news of J. F. Rutherford’s death received at Brooklyn Bethel? “I will never forget the day we learned of Brother Rutherford’s passing,” comments William A. Elrod. “The announcement was brief. There were no speeches.”

"House of the Princes”

Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in “The Golden Age” of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J.*F.*Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society.

Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book “Salvation,” published in 1939, explains: “The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth.”

A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? “The Watchtower” of December 15, 1947, explained: “It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise.”

At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as “princes in all the earth,” in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon.—See “The Watchtower,” November 1, 1950, pages 414-17.

The “Time of the End”
“The turning point in our time,” “a dividing line in history,” an “age of violence”—these are terms used by modern historians to describe the epoch that began with the outbreak of World War I. What startling significance lies in their observation? The answer affects your life.

NO DATE in history affects the destiny of every living person so much as the year 1914. That year marked the turning point in the affairs of men. World conditions since 1914 have taken a turn for the worse. War has ravaged the earth, inflation has strangled the world. Countries once prosperous are now plagued with poverty and revolutions. Great empires have collapsed, whole nations and islands hardly known before 1914 have become world problems. Mankind lives in the soul-chilling shadow of atomic annihilation. All this, grimly true as it is, does not explain why world conditions are exactly as they are. It does not explain why 1914 is a turning point. Nor does it explain why 1914 affects your everlasting destiny. What, then, explains the matter? This: in 1914 mankind entered the long-foretold “time of the end.”

Only one book tells of the “time of the end.” That is the Bible. Its prophecies, for the most part, have their major fulfillment in the “time of the end.” Then an understanding of the prophecies would be available to truth seekers: “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” (Dan. 12:4, AS) Lack of knowledge concerning the “time of the end” leads to death. How vital, then, to have the right answers to certain questions! What is to end? When will it end? How will it end? Who will end it?

Jehovah God has decreed that this earth must eventually become a global paradise, with its inhabitants enjoying everlasting life in perfect health and happiness. So what is to end could not be this literal earth, for the Bible plainly declares: “The earth abideth for ever.” What is to end is this evil system or state of things. This means that the world that mankind has known ever since the days of the Noachian flood will soon be blotted out; a righteous new world will take its place. So the news that 1914 brought the beginning of the end for what the Bible calls the “present wicked system of things” should be a source of great joy for all right-hearted persons.—Eccl. 1:4; Gal. 1:4, NW.

From 1909 onward a monthly tract—first called “Peoples Pulpit,” then “Everybody’s Paper,” and still later, “The Bible Students Monthly”—was widely distributed annually in millions of copies, clearly explaining vital Bible truths and warning the Gentile nations of the fateful year 1914. And so during several years these earnest united workers became more and more widely known as Bible Students, or International Bible Students. In fact, in 1914 the identical work in the British field was legally established under law of Great Britain, being incorporated under the name INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION. All three of these corporations were organized for identical purposes and they harmoniously work together.

The Watch Tower Society now in its Brooklyn headquarters had become equipped to keep abreast with the continually expanding gigantic publishing work then under way. The years from 1909 to 1914 saw an ever-increasing output of tracts, pamphlets and bound books running into many millions. The 1914 warning work was augmented by the organizing of an international newspaper syndicate service that sent Russell’s sermon for each week to approximately three thousand newspapers in the United States, Canada and Europe. Ten million people were reached each week in this manner, it was estimated.

The public platform also was geared to this expanding witness about the nearing year 1914. In 1911 alone, as officially reported, 12,113 public and semipublic lectures had been given all over the world. Fifty-eight special traveling ministers were regularly sent on assigned routes from the Society’s Brooklyn headquarters to serve in this public-speaking campaign, in which also many hundreds of local resident speakers carried on the “Class Extension Work,” endeavoring to organize new Bible classes. Much growth resulted. Finally by 1914 there were 1,200 congregations or classes operating in union with the Watch Tower Society at home and abroad. For 1915 the partial number reported as attenders of the annual Memorial celebration of Christ’s death was 15,430, and by this time there were 55,000 Watch Tower subscribers, thus indicating the approximate number associated in the warning and witness work.

In this period of witness the demand for personal appearances of the Society’s president, C. T. Russell, to address public gatherings in large centers, also was exceedingly insistent. To Europe he went every year for speaking engagements; and in North America he traveled extensively on “convention tour” special trains, accompanied by scores (once 240) of eager fellow workers, visiting all large cities in the United States and Canada. Thus he personally addressed thousands in many parts of the English-speaking world. From December, 1911, to March, 1912, Russell, as chairman of a committee of seven men, made a round-the-world tour, spreading seeds of truth that in time brought into fruitful action additional groups of anointed Christians in far-flung areas of the globe. For local lectures and for study of foreign missions the committee called at the following places: Honolulu, Hawaii; Yokohama, Tokyo, Kobe and Nagasaki, Japan; Shanghai and Hong Kong, China; Manila, Philippine Islands; Singapore and Penang, Straits Settlements; Colombo, Ceylon; Trivandrum, Kottarakara, Nagercoil, Puram, Madras, Vizagapatam, Calcutta, Benares, Lucknow and Bombay, India; Aden, Arabia; Cairo and Alexandria, Egypt; Piraeus, Athens, Corinth and Patras, Greece; Brindisi and Rome, Italy; Paris, France; and then London, England, and finally New York. Truly an extensive journey to gird the earth with the warning message of the approaching end of “Gentile times” in 1914. Before Russell’s death in 1916 (October 31) it is said that he traveled more than a million miles, preached more than 30,000 sermons, and wrote books totaling over 50,000 pages. By this time the Society’s publications were appearing in 15 languages.

To offset any private wild speculations as to 1914 the Watch Tower of December 1, 1912, published the following:

“There surely is room for slight differences of opinion on this subject and it behooves us to grant each other the widest latitude. The lease of power to the Gentiles may end in October, 1914, or in October, 1915. And the period of intense strife and anarchy ‘such as never was since there was a nation’ may be the final ending of the Gentile Times or the beginning of Messiah’s reign. But we remind all of our readers again, that we have not prophesied anything about the Times of the Gentiles closing in a time of trouble nor about the glorious epoch which will shortly follow that catastrophe. we have merely pointed out what the Scriptures say, giving our views respecting their meaning and asking our readers to judge, each for himself, what they signify. These prophecies still read the same to us. .*.*. However some may make positive statements of what they know, and of what they do not know, we never indulge in this; but we merely state that we believe thus and so, for such and such reasons.”

To demonstrate further that these united students and workers did not believe the prophetic year of 1914 would end all their operations with respect to this earth, from 1912 to the beginning of 1914 the Watch Tower Society spent a fortune (over $300,000) in preparing the Photo-Drama of Creation, to spread Bible knowledge to the masses of people during and after 1914. Although use of recorded talks and music synchronized with projected (moving and still) pictures was an art then in infancy, nevertheless the Society boldly proceeded to pioneer this field. In primitive studios in New York it produced a combined movie-film and picture-slide show of rare beauty, synchronized with which was a large variety of choicest musical recordings and 96 phonograph-record talks (each 4 minutes long) explaining the principal features of the Bible. Describing it, the Watch Tower of 1914 said:

“Naturally our readers are deeply interested in the Photo-Drama of Creation. All of you have heard more or less concerning its preparation during the past two years. The work has been much more tedious than we expected. All who have seen it concede that it is very beautiful. A minister, after seeing two parts, said, ‘I have seen only one-half of the DRAMA, but already have learned from it more about the Bible than I learned in my three years’ course in the theological seminary.’ .*.*. It [the DRAMA] includes everything appertaining to the creation of earth—animals, man, the experiences of mankind for the past six thousand years and the work of the thousand years of Messiah’s kingdom. It divides these into four parts—four Entertainments [of two hours each] with appropriate music, etc. Part I carries us from star nebula to the creation of the world and down to the Deluge—down to Abraham’s time. Part II reaches from Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, wilderness experiences, etc., down through the periods of the Kings to the time of Elisha, the Prophet. Part III continues the story from Daniel’s time down to the time when the Logos was made flesh at the birth of Jesus, his boyhood, manhood, baptism, ministry, miracles, crucifixion, death, resurrection. Part IV begins at Pentecost and traces the experiences of the Church, during the past nineteen centuries to our day and beyond for a thousand years to the glorious consummation.”
Nothing to see here, move along.
2006-09-18, 3:15 PM #176
Next time link to the articles so we can see the source.
2006-09-18, 3:17 PM #177
Copied and pasted from Watchtower Library 2005 English Edition. This CD can adress pretty much any issue.

EDIT: Please read it.
Nothing to see here, move along.
2006-09-18, 4:23 PM #178
Wow nice copy and pasting from a CD... when all Jehovah Witnesses get cornered do they start quoting random text?
2006-09-18, 4:31 PM #179
Originally posted by Slayder:
Wow nice copy and pasting from a CD... when all Jehovah Witnesses get cornered do they start quoting random text?



Did you even read it?
Nothing to see here, move along.
2006-09-18, 4:56 PM #180
Originally posted by gothicX:
According to the Bible, God is love. No immediate reference to the line that says so, but I'm sure some of you will know this from the top of their head.

Let's state that God does not like his plans or will to be violated. People that try doing so are sent to Hell. In effect, he doesn't want himself to be violated.

If God is love, he wouldn't want people to obstruct love, for they would obstruct God himself. So why would any Christian in their right mind portest against the love between two people, no matter what their gender is?



Was that really serious?
2006-09-18, 5:31 PM #181
.
Attachment: 14037/ngbbs450f30c680050.jpg (44,225 bytes)
2006-09-18, 7:00 PM #182
Okay here's where we stand right now.

Christians, on a whole, are cool.

Gay people are also cool.

Anyone, Christian or not, who hates gay people, is uncool.

Anyone who hates gay people and then tries to justify it by hiding behind a thousand-of-years-old religious text is not only uncool, but is also a hypocrite and is devoid of anything resembling "compassion" or "intelligence".


Anyone who disagrees with this is wrong. Don't even try to debate it. You're wrong, and you know it. I don't get why this is so hard to understand for some people.
Stuff
2006-09-18, 7:05 PM #183
Anybody who hates anybody is uncool. Especially if you're Christian and you hate somebody. I don't care if you believe that homosexuals are going to hell, just don't throw it in my face or try to tell me I have to change my ways for Jesus to accept me.
2006-09-18, 7:12 PM #184
Yeah, let's make things a little more general. In fact, for the Christians, let's add an eleventh commandment:

11. THOU SHALT NOT HATE

And a twelfth, because I'm sick of it:

12. THOU SHALT NOT EVANGELIZE

Okay there we go, now we'll get the Pope to write that into the bible and we'll be all set.
Stuff
2006-09-18, 7:12 PM #185
Jon C: One of the articles you linked to requires a login. Do you happen to have another source for it?

That being said...


Originally posted by nationalgeographic.com:
Hamer cautions that the gay men's different brain activity could be either a cause of their sexual orientation or an effect of it.


Hardly a definate anwser. He then says that it seems unlikely that it would be the cause, true, but common scientific thought often accepts very unprobable ideas.

Perhaps the other article is more profound. I'll create a membership to view it if I must, but either way I'll gladly read it.



Also, since when do Catholics consider Mary to be sinless? I've never heard that one before.
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2006-09-18, 7:18 PM #186
Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
God is unchanging.


That's impossible. Darwin suggest otherwise.
2006-09-18, 7:21 PM #187
[QUOTE=Vincent Valentine]Anybody who hates anybody is uncool. Especially if you're Christian and you hate somebody. I don't care if you believe that homosexuals are going to hell, just don't throw it in my face or try to tell me I have to change my ways for Jesus to accept me.[/QUOTE]


By all means, Jesus will accept you regardless of anything you could have done. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, especially not a Christian.
It took a while for you to find me; I was hiding in the lime tree.
2006-09-18, 7:40 PM #188
Originally posted by gothicX:
Where did you come to the conclusion that homosexuals cannot love? Are you saying that a part of love, being homosexual love, doesn't exist? That'd imply a part of God doesn't exist.


I stand by my position that it is not really love becase it is not what God has created and it is not what is just and proper for people to do. Just by looking at human anatomy it is obvious that two men or two women are not meant to be together. The fact that they would be attracted to each other in the first place is the result of being given over to shameful lusts, as desribed in Romans 1. The natural proper human instinct for a man to to be attracted to a woman, and vice versa. The penalty for homosexuality as described in romans is that this natural instinct is lost and replaced by unnatural ones.

Quote:
Homosexuals, wether it may surprise you or not, have the exact same feelings, aside from the babies, but for people of the same gender.


I've heard of lots of cheating and infidelity in homosexual relationships (more so than in hetero relationships)-- a lot of gay men are just in it for the sex.



Quote:
As sex is love, God is a sin, if I am to believe you.


Now THAT does not make sense. You seem to think that love and sex are the same thing, and that they cannot exist separate from each other when it just simply isn't true. It is possible to love someone without having sex with them, whether you believe it or not. One thing is constant: God does not break His own rules. Also, if God's main attribute is love like you so claim, then how could it be that God blatantly forbids homosexuality if it is simply an act of showing love?


Quote:
Yup, God is unchanging. Thus, God will still dislike people having homosexual sex purely for the point of having sex at large Roman orgies. However, those stopped existing, if you didn't know that yet. The homosexuality YOU are ranting on and calling wrong, is LOVE. You're disproving your own God once more.


See what I wrote above.

Also worth noting is the fact that the Book of Romans and the instructions that it contains can be applied globally to all Christians, not just the romans.

Moreover, you defeat your own point because gay orgies are hardly a thing of the past.

Quote:
Seriously, you're making it look like a sin to be Christian.


Do you even understand Christianity in the first place? Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible with each other, and should rightly be. Christians don't hate homosexuals. I don't hate someone who is trapped in this lifestyle, but I INTENSELY hate what they are doing because Christians are required to hate what is evil and unjust because we have been restored to righteousness in spirit. No matter how much you try to bring God's moral standard down to your own level to allow for homosexuality, it does not change what God says about it.
2006-09-18, 7:45 PM #189
Look, (most) people who believe in the bible are going to believe homosexuality is wrong and unnatural and sinful, etc. (Most) people who don't believe in the bible aren't going to feel that way. I really don't see why we have to argue about it every few weeks. We all know where each other stands.

Thanks for keeping this thread mostly civil, though.
2006-09-18, 7:50 PM #190
It wasn't all that civil. Gold was yelling spiteful things at a few people, telling them to shut up and such.

Anyways, This is the truth of it:

Gays are fine. Christians are fine. Straight people are fine.

Give me *FACTS* stating otherwise, and I'll shut up. Till then, anyone who says that a gay person is going to 'hell' is wrong.
"Jayne, this is something the Captain has to do for himself"

"N-No it's not!"

"Oh."
2006-09-18, 8:03 PM #191
Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
I stand by my position that it is not really love becase it is not what God has created and it is not what is just and proper for people to do. Just by looking at human anatomy it is obvious that two men or two women are not meant to be together. The fact that they would be attracted to each other in the first place is the result of being given over to shameful lusts, as desribed in Romans 1. The natural proper human instinct for a man to to be attracted to a woman, and vice versa. The penalty for homosexuality as described in romans is that this natural instinct is lost and replaced by unnatural ones.


How do you know it isn't what God created? It is foolish to distinguish both Love and Lust as two serparate polar entities, as they are essentially realative to each other.

Also, looking at human anatomy, the human body isn't meant to be fully functional and efficient. Look at our appendix. It currently has no use. In fact, one could consider that homosexuality is good, or in part of God's plan, to balance out nature by not having every single being on this planet reproduce constantly. Homosexuals can in turn help by not producing offspring to further populate the planet. If you're looking for a use of everything, use this theory instead :D

"Natural" is defined of the culture of time. It was natural, like gothicx said, for Romans to plug it in to anything that walks.

Quote:
I've heard of lots of cheating and infidelity in homosexual relationships (more so than in hetero relationships)-- a lot of gay men are just in it for the sex.


I have also hear this in the media, but the media was unable to provide any validating source (they gave no source, or any statistics rather than the reporter's word of mouth).

Please provide proof.

Quote:
Now THAT does not make sense. You seem to think that love and sex are the same thing, and that they cannot exist separate from each other when it just simply isn't true. It is possible to love someone without having sex with them, whether you believe it or not. One thing is constant: God does not break His own rules. Also, if God's main attribute is love like you so claim, then how could it be that God blatantly forbids homosexuality if it is simply an act of showing love?

I do not believe that there can be sex without any love, or lust, which in some cases could be a sublevel of love. It is true you can love without intercourse, however it is common for people to naturally desire to have sex when they love someone. I havn't come across any instance where this isn't the case.

Quote:
Do you even understand Christianity in the first place? Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible with each other, and should rightly be. Christians don't hate homosexuals. I don't hate someone who is trapped in this lifestyle, but I INTENSELY hate what they are doing because Christians are required to hate what is evil and unjust because we have been restored to righteousness in spirit. No matter how much you try to bring God's moral standard down to your own level to allow for homosexuality, it does not change what God says about it.


God hasn't spoken in a long time.
2006-09-18, 8:04 PM #192
It all comes down to what the bible says. And even biblical scholars can't even decide what it says (possibly because it's written by dozens of men who may or may not have been inspired by God.)

(Thisis why gay marriage/unions should be legal.)
2006-09-18, 8:10 PM #193
You know what? Live and let live, I say. The Christian may believe whatever he wants, and I'll believe whatever I want, and as long as neither of us force our beliefs on the other, all's well.

Or maybe it's just the drugs kicking in...
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-09-18, 8:14 PM #194
Originally posted by Freelancer:
You know what? Live and let live, I say. The Christian may believe whatever he wants, and I'll believe whatever I want, and as long as neither of us force our beliefs on the other, all's well.

Or maybe it's just the drugs kicking in...


God's real.

God loves you.

Have you found Jesus yet?
2006-09-18, 8:19 PM #195
Argh, I just can't take it anymore. No no no no no.

God is fake.

If he did exist, there's more evidence to suggest that he hates us.

And unless Jesus is frozen in the frigid arctic in a block of ice, I hope I don't find him.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-09-18, 8:33 PM #196
Originally posted by SF_GoldG_01:
[stuff]


Do you have anything from a non-Watchtower independent source that corroborates these claims? Because I've got plenty of independent sources that say otherwise.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2006-09-18, 10:43 PM #197
Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
a lot of gay men are just in it for the sex.


And this is different from straight men how? :v:

Do you really want me to dredge up the multitudes of your posts where you advocated treating women like commodities? :v:[sup]2[/sup]

These arguments amuse me considerably:

Homosexual: I don't choose to be gay.
Fundie-Heterosexual: Yes you did and what you are doing is unnatural.
H: Good point! I consciously chose to be gay because I like people harassing and preaching at me. I also like being denied the same rights that heterosexual couples have. Finally, I also like to be a target for bashing and generally be ostracised wherever I go. :v:[sup]3[/sup]

Also if anyone is interested, you can read the original research paper Jon'C has been referencing right here.
2006-09-18, 11:12 PM #198
If that's what "perfect" justice is, I can't really argue any further if that is what it is to you guys... but that is one of the most sick and twisted things I've ever heard. You're either good enough or you suffer for eternity? SUFFER for ETERNITY for the smallest slip-up? A lover deserves to SUFFER for ETERNITY the same as a mass murderer? I just find this truly shocking if this is what you believe in.
2006-09-18, 11:16 PM #199
There is no crime so bad that the perpetrator should pay for the crime for eternity. That's just assinine. Either people just don't grasp the concept of eternity or they're conveniently ignoring it. I mean, come on. The largest number (of years) you can possibly think of doesn't hold a candle to eternity.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-09-18, 11:33 PM #200
Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
God can only show love to people who are on that same footing otherwise God would be unjust and therefore be violating His own nature. That is why sin must be punished or attoned for before love can be shown.

Wrong. God loves sinners. The Bibles says so.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
I've heard of lots of cheating and infidelity in homosexual relationships (more so than in hetero relationships)-- a lot of gay men are just in it for the sex.

Any evidence other than what you've heard?

Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
you seem to believe that a lot of homosexual relationships are built on love rather than lust.

So why exactly are gays fighting for the right to marry then? They don't need to be married to have sex. Is it because they.... love each other?

Originally posted by Pagewizard_YKS:
Just by looking at human anatomy it is obvious that two men or two women are not meant to be together. The fact that they would be attracted to each other in the first place is the result of being given over to shameful lusts, as desribed in Romans 1. The natural proper human instinct for a man to to be attracted to a woman, and vice versa. The penalty for homosexuality as described in romans is that this natural instinct is lost and replaced by unnatural ones.

Ah, I see that you are interested in the biology of the matter! Well, you'll be excited to know that Jon'C has already addressed the issue and cited a credible study that found a link between pheromone receptors and homosexuality.


On a different note, here is something I don't understand...

People who are against giving gays the right to marry always adamantly claim they are not bigots and bluster at being accused of bigotry.

However,
a person who thinks blacks shouldn't have the same rights as whites is a bigot;
a person who thinks women shouldn't have the same rights as men is a bigot;
a person who thinks Muslims shouldn't have the same rights as Christians is a bigot;
but... a person who thinks homosexuals shouldn't have the same rights as heterosexuals is..... not a bigot?
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