In California, there are pot clubs that legally sell marijuana to people who have a legit prescription.

Medical joints, pre rolled
Medical bowls that come in a pill bottle, just to smoke
Also, I was reading a scan of a canadian pamphlet that they give to medical marijuana patients, and it said it could be administered as a supposatory...(spelled wrong). that's weird.

There is research going on to localize the tetrahydrocanabinol (thc, the active ingredient in pot), so they could put it in pills and prescribe those instead.

It's been argued (though without sources, as it was a verbal discussion) that the potency of the THC (which I believe is the pain-relieving element in marijuana) in pill-form loses some of its potency. Whether or not this loss in potency is negligible, I do not know.

i have never smoked maraijuana...








for medical reasons.

I think the research is still unconclusive, last I heard. Hopefully they'll get it figured out within a few more years. Alot of people's suffering could be greatly eased, if they do.

Heh.. then everyones going to be snorting the stuff..

That made me laugh.

Marijuana should be legalized. I've said it many times before, and I'll keep saying it. Alcohol and Cigarette's are far more addictive and worse for the body than Marijuana is. In fact, there isnt one solid true reason why Marijuana should remain illegal.

Pretty much anyone who forms a judgement against pot, hasn't tried it. That's a true fact. Unless you got laced weed, or you just don't really like smoking stuff or whatever, until you try it, you don't know jack about it. No matter how much you read about it.

I don't care how much you cite about articles written on the net or whatever, because it's true that, unless you have tried Marijuana more than once, you know nothing about it or what it does to you.



Marijuana is NOT addictive. Some users, however rarely, can become dependant psychologically on it, but not physically. Marijuana does not have any withdrawl effects like other drugs do. Meaning, people who use it, even a lot, can go off it without experiencing any forms of withdrawl that people who smoke or drink will get (i.e cravings, mood swings, etc). The only problem they will run into, is simply breaking their habit. Think about it, it's the same as someone who spends most of their life playing video games all day and nothing else. If they're told to stop doing so, they arent going to go nuts, they're just going to find it hard to not get bored and go play a video game.



That idea's really, really, really stupid to me. If they're going to do that, then they should just legalize pot. The only thing in Marijuana that gets you high IS the THC. If you've got a pill that has THC in it, that is legal, it's the same thing as smoking it. You're going to get just as high, off the same exact thing. Minus the plant/bud part.

What a load.
"You haven't tried it, so you couldn't possibly know about it."
The idea is to remove need to burn it, and remove the more dangerous chemicals. THC isn't the only thing in marijana, you know.

Naaaah just legalize it man, putting it in pills is for squares man ya gotta smoke it man.

My first concern is helping the people who need it. If a pill is going to be legal faster than the plant, then fine. And yes, I'm a habitual smoker, but I'm not trying to be selfish with it. Sure, I think the whole idea that pot is a bad drug worse than alcohol and cigarettes is ludacris, but I understand that there are plenty of uninformed individuals who think it's addictive.

I'm a great example. I've been doing it for 6 years cumulatively, and have quit several times for periods of up to 9 months without any problems at all. It's not physically addicting, but like anything anyone may do alot, it's tricky when it's all you've done for a while. Temp had a great analogy with the video game thing.

People who claim to be addicted would most likely become addicted to something else if they managed to quit. It's purely psychological, and some people are more prone to psychological addiction that others. There's scientific proof for this. Pot isn't addictive, and a few people who claim it is isn't going to sway my opinion when there's millions of people smoking it without problems.

"According to editors of the prestigious Lancet British medical journal: "The smoking of cannabis, even long-term, is not harmful to health. ... It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat ... than alcohol or tobacco."
REFERENCE: Deglamorising Cannabis. 1995. The Lancet 346: 1241. Editorial. November 14, 1998. The Lancet.

"More than 76 million Americans have admittedly tried marijuana. The overwhelming majority of these users did not go on to become regular marijuana users, try other illicit drugs, or suffer any deleterious effects to their health."
REFERENCE: Combined data from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 1996. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Main Findings 1994. Rockville, MD and 1995. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Population Estimates 1994; Deglamorising Cannabis. 1995. The Lancet 346: 1241. Sydney Morning Herald, February 18, 1997.

A California police officer's study concluded, "The reduction in penalties for possession of marijuana for personal use does not appear to [be] a factor in people's decision to use or not use the drug."
REFERENCE: California State Office of Narcotics and Drug Abuse. 1977. A First Report on the Impact of California's New Marijuana Law. State Capitol: Sacramento.

"The high associated with marijuana is not generally claimed to be integral to its therapeutic value. But mood enhancement, anxiety reduction, and mild sedation can be desirable qualities in medications—particularly for patients suffering pain and anxiety. Thus, although the psychological effects of marijuana are merely side effects in the treatment of some symptoms, they might contribute directly to relief of other symptoms. They also must be monitored in controlled clinical trials to discern which effect of cannabinoids is beneficial. These possibilities are discussed later under the discussions of specific symptoms in chapter 4."
REFERENCE: Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base (1999) Institute of Medicine (IOM)

Also, from the previous article cited, a table describing doses and effects of marijuana in a controlled study:
http://books.nap.edu/books/0309071550/html/85.html#pagetop

Sounds like bull****, but unfortunately, it's true. You can read up all about it everywhere, but either way, you don't know crap about Marijuana unless you have tried it. Or I should say, you don't know the TRUE effects of what it can and cannot do, until you've tried it.

Marijuana more unhealthy than tobacco

Tobacco does not have the sensory impairment that results from smoking marijuana.

Alcohol, when used in responsible moderation, results in a decreased likelihood of cardiovascular conditions.

Tell me - what are the physiological benefits to someone who simply smokes it casually?



True. But, then, I don't have to do heroin to know that it's bad for me. Same goes for marijuana.



I know more than you, it seems. You seem oblivious to the fact that marijuana cigarettes are as dangerous, if not more so, than cigarettes.



To translate: "I'm going to cover my ears with my hands and say, 'La, la, la, la, la, la,' because I enjoy living in my own dream world and it upsets me when reality interferes with it." Try a better argument. You know...one supported with facts and citations.



150,000 people per year disagree with you.



See above.



If a person's only way of sating boredom is to play a videogame, then, yes, that is an addiction. Books, music, talking with and hanging out with people, and movies are the first things that come to my mind that exist outside of playing video games.

Marijuana should be legalized. I've said it many times before, and I'll keep saying it. Alcohol and Cigarette's are far more addictive and worse for the body than Marijuana is. In fact, there isnt one solid true reason why Marijuana should remain illegal.

"Hey this stuff is more bad for you than this... so make it legal!"
There are actually reasons. Such as we cannot detect if someone is high, on the spot. We would have to do so to allow officers to be able to arrest people for DUI. Driving high is almost as bad as drunk.

Pretty much anyone who forms a judgement against pot, hasn't tried it. That's a true fact. Unless you got laced weed, or you just don't really like smoking stuff or whatever, until you try it, you don't know jack about it. No matter how much you read about it.

Exactly. I thought it was horrible stuff untill I tried it.

I don't care how much you cite about articles written on the net or whatever, because it's true that, unless you have tried Marijuana more than once, you know nothing about it or what it does to you.

If they are facts, from studies... Um.. yea they can know what is happening.


That idea's really, really, really stupid to me. If they're going to do that, then they should just legalize pot. The only thing in Marijuana that gets you high IS the THC. If you've got a pill that has THC in it, that is legal, it's the same thing as smoking it. You're going to get just as high, off the same exact thing. Minus the plant/bud part.

Ok everyone who wants to do it, does it. What difference will making it legal do, other than get a bunch of idiot kids who think they are cool stuff now because they are sitting on their porch smoking weed. Us old school smokers will still go out in the woods, and do it away from everyone when in public.. It's just habit. I think it would give pot smokers a worse image if it was made legal. People are still going to think badly of it if its legal.

I agree with Temperamental.

Weed is harmless in comparison to alcohol and tobacco.

I think Roach was pointing out that you seemed to be putting marijuana and prescription drugs in the same category during your speech.

Eating weed doesn't hit you as much as smoking it.

Comparing weed and heroin is ****ing rediculous.

Interesting points, Wolfy. Return the favor and read my post.

"Substantial research exists regarding marijuana and addiction. While the scientific community has yet to achieve full consensus on this matter, the majority of epidemiological and animal data demonstrate that the reinforcing properties of marijuana in humans is low in comparison to other drugs of abuse, including alcohol and nicotine. According to the U.S. Institute of Medicine (IOM), fewer than one in 10 marijuana smokers become regular users of the drug, and most voluntary cease their use after 34 years of age. By comparison, 15 percent of alcohol consumers and 32 percent of tobacco smokers exhibit symptoms of drug dependence.

According to the IOM, observable cannabis withdrawal symptoms are rare and have only been identified under unique patient settings. These remain limited to adolescents in treatment facilities for substance abuse problems, and in a research setting where subjects were given marijuana or THC daily. Compared with the profound physical syndrome of alcohol or heroin withdrawal, marijuana-related withdrawal symptoms are mild and subtle. Symptoms may include restlessness, irritability, mild agitation and sleep disruption. However, for the overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers, these symptoms are not severe enough to re-initiate their use of cannabis."

If alcohol is legal, marijuana should be too. I mean, how many people drink for the pysiological benefits?

Addicting properties... Still not a fully researched topic yet. Either side will have some kind of "study" for or against it.

I started smoking ciggybuttsfor a while, got midly addicted, and immediately quit. There were many times where I would think "I need a darn Ciggy" .. Etc.. felt all the symptoms

Nothing like that whatsoever with Marijuana. I never feel like I need it. It's just something to do, for kicks. You don't start chain smoking joints during finals week because of all the stress. That's addiction. Casual pot smoking is not.

If it has addicting properties, that's up for arguement. But they are extremely mild.


Ok. I've been two both worlds, and I can say Ciggarettes are worse. Or at least feel that way. I have no clue what is going on inside my body.




And people, you need to stop saying If A is legal B should be. That arguement is worth NOTHING.

Marijuana has little to no sensory impairment. You still feel everything the same... In fact the only thing that's diffrerent are that for some sex seems to have better feeling, and food tastes much better. Other than that, you're not going to cut your arm off and not notice it. Alcohol however, numbs the body, to everything. Maybe not to a dangerous level, but moreso than Marijuana.

The benefits to those that smoke Marijuana recreationally? There aren't any other than the fact that they can do what they want. It's not going to cure cancer no, it's not going to grow back a lost limb no, but it's not going to cause any of that either. And before you go saying studies have shown that Marijuana leads to cancer, they're not conclusive. Besides that, the air we breathe nowadays could lead to cancer. So there may not be any amazing benefits, but hey, what benefit does playing a video game have? None other than physical enjoyment, which is what Marijuana does. Both, millions of people do daily.



Wrong. How is marijuana bad for you exactly? And i'd like more than just "OH YOU INHALE SMOKE SO YOUR LUNGS GET DAMAGED". Give me a real reason that shows marijuana is truly dangerous, and not "potentially" dangerous.. Because even handling paper is "potentially dangerous".

A lot of the "facts" put out about Marijuana are either false, or exaggerated, like for instance, "One joint of Marijuana is equal to 5 cigarette's".. Which I will soon get to.



How so?

Marijuana is not addictive. Cigarette's are.
Marijuana doesn't contain a lot of the chemicals in cigarette's. Yes, it has bad chemicals, however, cigarette's chemicals are more dangerous and carry more addictive properties.

Now comes that whole "1 marijuana joint = 5 cigs" argument. Which a lot of people like you who say "Cigs arent as bad as pot" use as an argument.

One Marijuana joint is as bad as 5 cigarette's, however, on average, most Marijuana smokers only smoke 1 or 2 joints a day. This only equals 5 or 10 cigarette's. On the other hand, most cigarette smokers smoke a pack or two a day. This is what, 20-25 or maybe 50 cigarette's a day? Either way you look at it, it's a hell of a lot more than Marijuana, and a lot more damaging.



No, again, you've got it wrong. The reality surrounding Marijuana has been so distorted, that people and society has formed judgements on it that are based on nothing, including experience. A lot of people will tell you that Marijuana makes you literally stupid, which it does not. Other's will say that Marijuana makes you hallucinate, which it does not. The only hallucinations you get on Marijuana are things like where you think you see something out of the corner of your eye, like when you're watching TV. But it's nothing like you see a bear out of the corner of your eye, and it happens very rarely, and is never scary or a bad thing. In fact, it's barely noticable.

Marijuana is not addictive. Addiction is when you do something, and you quit, and you experience withdrawl properties from it. Marijuana does not have withdrawl symtoms, as it is only habit forming. Again, this is something that only using it yourself will show you the truth to.



That's not an addiction, it's a habit. Not being able to quit something, or not being able to stop thinking about something, is when you're addicted. When you become simply used to doing something as a routine, it's not the same thing.

I'll say it again, you can't know the actual truths about Marijuana and what it does to you, unless you've smoked it. And if you HAVE smoked it in the past but don't anymore, then you've only proved me correct in when I say that Marijuana is not addictive.



Marijuana is legal in Amsterdam, and it has been proven, that Marijuana use actually WENT DOWN after it was legalized.

I'd also like to add that I smoke Marijuana daily, and I also run daily. Whenever I run, I notice no effect on my body or performance when running, for example shortness of breath or whatever. As well, when I smoke with my friends, we smoke quite often, and during this time I do not run at all (a week or more), when I come back home and begin running again, I notice no difference then either.

If place marijuana and alcohol in the same category (as a recreation drug), then it's fine to say. Personally, it's more pointing out the hypocracy of people saying that marijuana should be illegal when a similar substance that causes its share of troubles is legal.

Make it all legal. It's not up to the government to make sure that no-one ruins their lives. If people want to do that, let them, I don't care.

Because....you know.....The government really cares about us... :p

Detect? Put 10 people stoned in a group of 20 and I'll guess 95% of the stoners no problem. Red eyes, smell, etc are all dead give aways, except when eye drops are used to cover up the red eyes and when something is used to cover the smell.

Habitual smokers often don't get red-eye. After a few years, I stopped getting it.

And for the smell, it doesn't stick nearly as long as cig smoke. I used to smoke in my 'rents house an hour before they got home, and they never smelled it. But when I was 14, they smelled cigarette on me from my friends smoking one much much earlier that day.

True, though, that the majority of people would get red-eye. the smell is really only applicable while smoking, or very near afterwards. Smoking + Driving isn't cool, but I know a ton of people who do it...*shrug* DWI is widely applicable for this reason

For a lot of people, including myself, sometimes your eyes do not get red. Sometimes they have no difference from when you're not stoned. Sometimes, you can smoke and not use something to cover it up and not smell (some types of bongs, pipes, smoking outside in the wind).



Yeah, I used to hotbox my car (sit inside with windows up and smoke a large joint, enough to keep a lot of smoke inside car for a long period of time), leave the windows up all day, then i'd go outside and notice my car didn't smell at all.

[/b]How about this: YOU INHALE SOME SO YOUR LUNGS GET DAMAGED. This is a huge issue, don't dismiss it just because it smacks down your stupid claim.



[/b]I would like to see statistics proving that legalizing marijuana caused marijuana use to decrease.

Quote:

I'd also like to add that I smoke Marijuana daily, and I also run daily. Whenever I run, I notice no effect on my body or performance when running, for example shortness of breath or whatever. As well, when I smoke with my friends, we smoke quite often, and during this time I do not run at all (a week or more), when I come back home and begin running again, I notice no difference then either.

[/QUOTE]

Wow... a god among men.

the number one reason it should be legal;
in BC last year dealers made $7,000,000,000. and that's what we know about. get the government to regulate and tax it. fast!!!

everything is bad for you. EVERYTHING! 1700 people die every year from breathing in downtown toronto. that's over 10% of what smoking cigs takes care of in all of ontario.
give cigs a break and start looking at all the other truely and easily preventable thnings that are really making us unhealthy.
fast food, exhaust....

Not quite a decrease, but definetly some good points...

Citizens who live under decriminalization laws consume marijuana at rates less than or comparable to those who live in regions where the possession of marijuana remains a criminal offense.
REFERENCE: E. Single et al. 2000. The Impact of Cannabis Decriminalization in Australia and the United States. Journal of Public Health Policy 21: 157-186.

There is no evidence that marijuana decriminalization affects either the choice or frequency of use of drugs, either legal (such as alcohol) or illegal (such as marijuana and cocaine).
REFERENCE: C. Thies and C. Register. 1993. Decriminalization of marijuana and demand for alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. The Social Sciences Journal 30: 385-399.

States and regions that have maintained the strictest criminal penalties for marijuana possession have experienced the largest proportionate increase in use.
REFERENCE: Connecticut Law Review Commission. 1997. Drug Policy in Connecticut and Strategy Options: Report to the Judiciary Committee of the Connecticut Assembly. State Capitol: Hartford.

Marijuana use remains consistent despite a high level of enforcement, and there is no detectable relationship between changes in enforcement and levels of marijuana use over time.
REFERENCE: J. Morgan and L. Zimmer. 1997. Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. The Lindesmith Center: New York, 46.

Marijuana users believe that their behavior will go undetected; thus fear of arrest is usually not a factor in people's decisions whether or not to use it.
REFERENCE: Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse National Working Group on Addictions. 1998. Cannabis Control in Canada: Options Regarding Possession. Ottawa.

Marijuana laws have no "specific" deterrent impact on drug taking behavior. Studies show that marijuana offenders continue to use marijuana after their conviction at rates equal to those prior to their arrest. No relation between the actual or perceived severity of their previous sentence and subsequent use has been found.
REFERENCE: P. Erickson. 1980. Cannabis Criminals: The Social Effects of Punishment on Drug Users. Addiction Research Foundation: Toronto.

In surveys, most individuals cite health concerns and family responsibilities rather than legal concerns as their primary reasons for ceasing (or never initiating) marijuana use.
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1982. Marijuana and Health. National Academy Press: Washington, DC.

A California police officer's study concluded, "The reduction in penalties for possession of marijuana for personal use does not appear to [be] a factor in people's decision to use or not use the drug."
REFERENCE: California State Office of Narcotics and Drug Abuse. 1977. A First Report on the Impact of California's New Marijuana Law. State Capitol: Sacramento.

About half those statistics prove that legalization is irrelevant, and the other half show no direct link between marijuana use and criminalization e.g.

City A has 999,999,999 citizens and marijuana is illegal
City B has 1 citizen and marijuana is legal

OMG CITY B HAS LESS USERS LEGALIZE LEGALIZE LEGALIZE!

If you see my point.

If you'd been reading my posts, you'd know I'm not pro-legal, I'm pro-decrim and pro-medical. I could care less if it's ever legal for me to smoke it, I'm trying to show that it should be ok for people who need it to smoke it. Sure, I'm not stating facts that say it does any good, I'm stating facts that show that it isn't horrible and bad.

I have read your posts, and I'm in pretty much the same stance except you seem to be a user, and I'm not.

The point is, it's just as bad as cigarettes and alcohol, worse in some cases, better in some cases, and I think a better argument would be to make cigarettes and alcohol ILLEGAL than to make another harmful substance legal.

Cigarettes are addictive, yes, due to their nicotine content. I do not disagree that a ban on alcohol (if people were to follow it) would be disadvantageous in any way -- however, as society seems to have integrated the availibity and use of alcohol into it due to centuries of use, a ban on it is only going to complicate the problem further.



Simply because they're negligible in effect does not mean they do not exist. Your quote, in fact, supports this: "Compared with the profound physical syndrome of alcohol or heroin withdrawal, marijuana-related withdrawal symptoms are mild and subtle."



They disagree.

"However, driving, occupational or household accidents may result from a distortion of time and space relationships and impaired coordination.
Stronger doses intensify reactions. The individual may experience shifting sensory imagery, rapidly fluctuating emotions, a flight of fragmentary thoughts with disturbed associations, an altered sense of self-identity, impaired memory, and a dulling of attention despite an illusion of heightened insight."




People say the same about alcohol, when it, in fact, lowers physical arousal. A similar situation goes for weed:

"Occasional use of marijuana may affect sexual performance, but most abusers complain about a decrease in desire. Marijuana does reduce the number and quality of sperm and damages their mobility which may significantly affect fertility."



Takes at least three shots of Bacardi liquor (35% ALC) for my friend (she's 5'4", 110 lbs.) to get to a point where she doesn't feel as cold. It takes an additional three shots for her to feel numb. It used to take more for me (when I was drinking).



Your as bad as Raoul Duke. Every single debate, I provide sources and sources on the subject, yet, each time this debate comes around, you magically forget!



Awww. If there's one thing I can count on from advocates of legalizing pot, it's to put words in my mouth! Good job! Now show me where I advocated smoking cigarettes!



See my response to Compos Mentis.



Hmmph. Pursuing an argument in semantics, I fear, will prove useless. Chalk this particular argument up to a stalemate.



Here, I'll make a deal with you: you come up with a reliable, cost-efficient replacement for combustion engines, and I'll ease up a tiny bit on cigarettes. Otherwise, excuse me for not wanting to run the 100 miles to home whenver I go home for the weekend, or to want to have to hitch Bessie up to the covered wagon.

And that's gonna hold up real well in court.
"Uh.. yea... I thought he was high"

Everyone at my High School thought I was a stoner(Erm.. or at least AT school). My eyes would always be red and I acted weird (It's fun to). In realality I was never high at school.

I never get red eye as well.. *shrugs*

I've seen great arguments on both sides. Unfortunatly, this is one of those things that can't be resolved until medical studies are more conclusive. I'm withdrawing from the debate, as it's just now starting to go around in circles.

Hopefully it can remain a civil discussion, though, and everyone can still remain respectful of other peoples opinions and views despite disagreement.

-Mentis

Traditional, unless its changed recently...
Hell they'll even teach you how to use a bong.

Making bongs is an art.
My friend and I got bored one day. We got really creative and made a couple. It was fun. And we didn't even have to take a trip to the hardware store, it was all laying around.


I'd go into all the details.. but that's not really the point of the thead :p

Funny bong story: I was going to chug the bong water but I forgot about the carb and it spilt all over me

Besides that, that kind of stuff is hardly tolerated on massassi

I don't have anything to link to, but I read an article that said a study found that the Swiss smoked more pot thatn the Dutch. Also, froom so time ago, 25% of teens in Amsterdam smoke vs. higher rates where pot is illegal. I'll try to find it.

I think it's funny that no one else has found it absurd that the governments think they can ban a plant.

Alright! we are a little off the ball here. Lets get back to the main topic of Medicinal use. i know i not one to talk about being off topic, but still. i came to this for an intelligent exchange of veiwpoints, not your ***** fight


then again.. this is massassi