Keep your eye on Gerrard and Owen for england.

and if rooney comes on, he is a legend.

I don't know if this has been brought up here or not, but CH has a cool soccer compilation video, mostly fancy footwork and some amazing shots.

Beckham to Crouch in the 83rd minute. Game's over, I think.

GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!

beauty by gerrard

EYE OF THE ****ING TIGER THAT WAS A CRACKER

2-0 England, thankyou very much!!

Well done, England!

They were having a really hard time, but I think the win was deserved, especially for the latter part of the second half.

Well that was an interesting game. It seemed that T&T really never made a major effort to get any offense going, for the first half England kept pushing them and they had to play defense. I don't know really, but it seemed the England team was a little off until the last few minutes, but that first England goal was really something. I have to say though, it looked like the T&T players were getting tired, so I wonder if the English goals were more as a result of that.

The England players are the big names of the premier league. The T&T players play in England's secondary league... their best option was to be all defensive, and rely on counterattacking for offense. They defended really really well, and for the biggest part of the game England just couldn't penetrate their defenses. In the end England finally got into their game and created more and more opportunities, which finally paid off. They played bad in the beginning, though. Bad passes, bad teamplay from England.

I was glad for Crouch when he finally scored.

Yes, that well known secondary league of England, the Scottish Premier League.

Seriously, that Robinson needs to either learn to jump higher or to keep standing on his damn line. He's lucky they didn't make it 2-0 in the first half.

I was discussing the England game with one of my coworkers today (I had seen about 20 minutes of it at lunch), and my manager walked by and was puzzled as to what we were talking about. When I told him, he commented the he hates watching soccer because it's too slow for him. Ironically enough, he likes baseball and American football.

Crouch and Gerrard! And to think that at the start of the game when they were naming the clubs the England players played for, they missed out Liverpool!
That's always a factor, particularly with smaller teams and in hotter climates (although the weather seemed fairly mild in Germany today). However, I think it had more to do with Lennon coming on to the pitch. I'd include Rooney and Downing with that, but...they just didn't do enough, for me. Having two out-and-out wingers benefitted England immensely, giving us a lot of pace.

No, it was really really warm in Germany. Around 30' C. The Dutch commentary was all about how the English were suffering from the heat, compared to the T&T players. So, the other way round, haha.

Really? I guess the dull sky lead me to believe otherwise. Plus, none of the England players really looked like they were struggling out there. Plus, I said 'particularly', not 'exclusively' smaller teams It just seems to be the case that the sides that aren't that prominent in football tend not to have the stamina that comes with experience.

yeah they mentioned that it was cloudy, but more humid than ever.

2 goals in the last 10 minutes!?

Great, though a part of me was thinking why the hell they didnt do taht from the start.

A question of confidence i reckon.

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Yeah, it was hot and humid. There's been a heatwave here in western Europe for several days, and in Germany it hasn't started raining yet.

They've also been using a big cloth to close up the roof of the stadium since a couple of days, to block out the vivid sunlight which was causing problems for the TV cameras.

Yeah, I saw that on one of the matches recently. I can't believe FIFA weren't going to allow players to drink water during the games. What kind of reasoning was behind that?

I went to watch the game in a pub nearby with people from work....

I spent most of the first half ranting about how s*** Crouch is. Seriously, if it wasn't for his height, I don't see that he could be in the England squad. Yeah, everyone says he brings this "unique" quality, but wtf is that supposed to mean? He missed at least 4 very easy chances - what the hell was that with the attempted scissor kick?! Any decent striker would have sent it out to be played back in to the box, but no, Crouch has to go for the glory shot.

And then he scored. Yeah, I'm chuffed for England, but I still can't help but feel like if it was anyone else up there, they'd have put away a couple more.

Ruthven mentioned something about confidence, which I think is a major factor. We played the first hour or so really desperately, hoofing these balls up field when it was totally unnecessary. We have the skill to pass through, there's no need to randomly lob the ball at the box and hope that someone will connect with it.

Nubs - I see what you mean about T&T playing defensively, but I think that was very much their choice rather than ours. They did the same thing with Sweden and managed to pull off an impressive 0-0 draw. Assuming they can beat Paraguay (which they probably can), a draw with England would have been a good thing for them. They played very very deep, so that we couldn't really break the defense, Beckham would have been able to play better balls in, if there had been some space.

Anyway, I feel really bad. We had £1 bets on first scorers (I went on Rooney for the England game as I knew he'd be coming on - unlucky with that), but I bet on Ljungberg for the Sweden game.... Yeah, I cheered when he scored, and then it sunk in that he'd kinda screwed us up!!

(sorry for the rambling, I be a bit drunk)

Freddie scored

Lennon had the biggest impact of the subs, but Rooney brought a lot of energy that England didn't have before. Don't forget that he set up a couple of really good chances and that he was probably creating a lot of space for everyone else.

the time he spent on the field was also time well spent.... it'll get him ready for the big games.

Rooney not only is a great striker but he also drops off to fill the gap between midfield and attack which is an area which is currently sitting open for England at the moment.

They need to let BOTH Gerrad and Lampard go forward and have someone to cover them, i.e. Carrick. (this was all suggested by Venables at the end and I couldn't agree more)

I should say however I don't know entirely how this would work, you'd have to keep 2 upfront and possibly have 5 in midfield with Carrick sitting in front of a 3 man defence....risky I know but I'd give it a shot against Sweden and see how it works. Thinking about the whole midfield in general, we have too many good players for midfield, Gerrad, Lampard, Beckham, Lennon, J. Cole, Carrick....having J. Cole and Lennon on the field at the same time would be great but you can't have Beckham, Gerrad and Lampard in the centre....

[QUOTE=Mr. Stafford]the time he spent on the field was also time well spent.... it'll get him ready for the big games.[/QUOTE]


Quite true. He was quite active and looked quite good for someone who had a broken foot and was questionable to make the squad in the fort place. With their advancement to the next round locked up, he can get some more good time against Sweden as well.

I came on here after watching a video of the game, and I have to say I'm surprised by people's reactions to the game. While I am a huge England fan, and was thrilled that they won 2-0, I have to say that England played some abysmal soccer.

First of all, as Maevie said, what the heck was up with Crouch? He missed so many good opporunities. The bicycle kick was a complete waste of a good shot and, despite his 6' 7" height, he still managed to completely fumble several headers which should have easily been goals.

As for Beckham, the guy had several free kicks, most of which were awful. I don't deny the man has some great moments on the field, but these set pieces which he is supposedly famous for were huge wastes of opportunity. His cross to Crouch (which produced the first goal) was, as far as I can make out, one of his few saving graces of the game.

I think I have the right player here, but Lampard also messed up a lot of good opportunities. He leaned back twice on some very good shots, and sent the ball flying over the crossbar.

As for the defenders, they play SO dangerously, all of this passing back to the keeper, and back and forth, back and forth. There were a few instnaces where Robinson was placed under tremendous pressure from his backs, but fortunately he did very well. At one point, he headed a ball away from goal and a jumbled swarm of Trinidadians and defenders.

For all the other English players - too sloppy, too slow. There were some truly dreadful passes, where trhe ball was easily picked up by Trinidad. The long lobs were usually even worse, either overshooting to the side or the goalie, or switching possession in the air. And England is excruciatingly slow. After watching 2002, I've come to realize this is how they seem to play. I don't know whether to blame it on them or Sven. But I do know that they would intercept the ball, and then take forever getting organized and passing the ball around leisurely while the Trinidadians promptly dashed back to their half to defend goal. England desperately needs to improve their quick breaks. I've seen in the Holland game and the Saudi Arabia game and others just how important this is, and just how often it produces the goods.

In all fairness to England, Trinidad and Tobago played some very good defense. Theire keeper has also proved himself to be quite outstanding, both in this game and the nil-nil draw with Sweden.

I'm also really glad that England didn't just settle for a 1 up lead and finished the game with a comfy 2-0. If England can play every game like they did in the last 15 minutes of tihs, I forsee them doing much better against some tougher oppoistion than I currently predict.

1.) If everyone scored on 1/4 of the chances they had in a soccer game, they'd be ahead of the game and would have the world's top clubs knocking with $10 million a year contracts. Putting the ball in the back of the net isn;t nearly as people think it is. But, Crouch came through in the clutch when the other big names didn't. Don't forget about that. He's going to be dangerous if the wing midfielders can get some good crosses off. He's a target forward meaning he wants the ball played in the air. He's not going to create his own offense.

2.) Hitting a good set piece is damn hard. Either shooting or setting up a team mate. It's easy to criticize but If you are, I doubt you really have any real soccer experience, because people who do wouldn't complain about it. And, when it came down to it, it was Beckham with the perfect service on the cross to get the first goal. Beckham is over-hyped because of his huge celebrity status around the world, but he is the best crosser and guy to be taking your set pieces in the world.

3.) Lampard is an outstanding player. There are a rare few holding, meaning defensive, midfielders in the game who are better than he is. He's not on the team to score goals, but he can chip in a few here and there. Without him, opposing teams could run right through England's midfield. Yah, he missed some chances, but he gets no love for what he's really best at.


4.)T&T was sitting back with 8 or 9 players defending, looking for the counter attack. It' hard to score when the opposing team is playing that way. England was playing somewhat cautiously, probing the defense, not wanting to give up a counter-attack goal.

5.) Erisckson's subs were peferfect. He saw that his team was not doing well against what T&T was doing defensively, so he made some good adjustments. Lennon and Rooney were running all over the place, giving fits to the T&T defense and opening up space, which is the key to offense, in soccer.




Could they have played better, of course. You can always do better.

Dear Lord did I get drunk last night.

I also have to bring up the abortive volley from Crouch - he had so much time! All he had to do was control it then slide it past Hislop!

That aside, a promising second half and a wild night on the toon

Oh I certainly agree England played very bad during the first half. They got better during the second half though.

First of all, thank you Avenger. I've been defending Crouch for so long in these conversations that it's hardly fun anymore.

Any decent striker would be looking to score from inside the area, especially if he can't find anyone to lay it off to. As far as I remember, he only missed one 'easy' chance, which was the bicycle kick I'll go into a little bit later. His sliding shot, for example, was at full stretch (and there's not many who can stretch further), and forced a corner from Hislop.

The problem is, everyone thinks that because he's so tall he should win every aerial challenge he enters into, and be smashing headed goals from corners and crosses, which is frankly unfair pressure. The T&T defenders were at least his equal in the air, and as Beenhakker was saying at half time, his players are used to tall strikers who get the ball lobbed up to them. Finally, his "unique" quality is that he plays as...well, a holding striker. The idea his inclusion is based around is receiving the ball, either from a long pass from defence or from the midfielders, holding it, and creating an opportunity for a partner, like Owen, while poaching goals of his own. He isn't the glamorous type of player who takes the ball from midfield and rips through the opposition to score on his own.

I don't think he quite realised how much time he had for that shot. He was probably aware that T&T defenders were on the way back, but didn't know how close they were to him.

Avenger, I appreciate a lot of what you said in the post, but I still say the England played a pretty poor game, although it did pick up later on. As for my soccer experience, you are right, I have very little. My dad, however, who watched the entire game with me, has played Semi-pro for some years as goalie in Scotland. He was appalled by some of the quality of play in this game.

Seriously, watch some of the passes and lobs in this game and compare them to Spain vs. Ukraine, or Holland vs. Serbia/Montenegro. These are WORLD class athletes. They should not CONSTANTLY be making silly mistakes like this. All the passing back to the keeper is just foolish, and some of the set pieces were, I still think, quite poorly taken.

I really hope England picks up the game a bit more, because otherwise they're going to have a hella tough time against the likes of Germany/Ecuador depending on who qualifies tops of Group A.

I agree with Avenger about Crouch. At least he was shooting at the goal several times. He was constantly there, constantly had the ball. He just didn't get any easy opportunities, safe for one, but he couldn't see who was behind him, so he basically had no idea. Also, consider the amount of pressure these players are under.

Holy cow, half time, and Argentina is leading 3-0 against Serbia. It's actually 4-0 because the referee judged one legit goal as offside.

Argentina is frightening. If they're going to play like this against Holland, we are about to be murdered, haha.

See, I was watching ESPn the other day, and the host said that in soccer, losing 3-0 was like losing 56-0 in football. So if that was that bad, how horrible is it to lose 5-0 :)?

Final score: 6-0 (actually 7-0)

The thing is, once a team is losing 2-0 or more, resistance is broken. Demoralization often leads to big defeats that way.

But Argentina played really good. Methinks they'll prove to be a size too big for the Dutch as well.

Eh, I don't know about that. 35-3 in football would be a closer equivalent to most 3-0 games in soccer.

You also find that after the first goal is scored, the team who went 1 down now have to push forward and chase the game. That leads to openings, which create more goals, which makes bigger gaps...

Especailly given the tendancy to score the first goal then lock down the defense that's so common place inthe World Cup.

Well, Holland beat Ivory Coast 2-1.

First half was decent play by Holland and 2 great goals, but the second half was totally dominated by Ivory Coast and Holland played really bad.

We were lucky to keep the 2-1, in my opinion.

Argentina is going to give the Dutch a good beating, I'm afraid. Too much holes in our defenses.

Anyway, at least we're on to Round 2!