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ForumsInteractive Story Board → NeS workshop
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NeS workshop
2005-03-31, 3:04 PM #361
Quote:
Originally posted by Gebohq
So... was Tracer's post an early April Fool's post?

Maybe in his attempt to post again "legit" he missed a few important details...?

/me is confused as to what to do...


Because I like to quote myself in the third person...

Just an idea: everyone can chip in their crazy ideas to run with Tracer's post between now and after April 1, and if we come up with good stuff, we'll stick with it, otherwise, we'll just say it's a bit April's Fools. Not to say we can't have any posts that are a big joke no matter what... <_<
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2005-03-31, 4:39 PM #362
Good idea, Geb.

Also, a matter of clarification about Krig: Krig is roughly four feet tall. He's a tiny ball of fury, not a lumbering lummox. See his character sheet here.
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
2005-03-31, 8:03 PM #363
*Note to self. Read ALL of profiles n future. Not just the good bits* >v>;;;;
2005-03-31, 9:10 PM #364
Yeah, the profiles are a good read. I think we should eventually add a conceptual drawing of each character to them as well.

And in terms of Tracer's post, I didn't think there was a problem, really. The Jupiter bad guy hideout isn't on Jupiter, it's on a space stronghold orbiting it. Now it's just orbiting nothing, as far as I can surmise.
The Last True Evil - consistent nobody in the Discussion Forum since 1998
2005-04-01, 1:33 AM #365
Well, I figured the destruction of a planet would have wiped that out as well (or at least sent it careening to who knows where), plus a lot of stuff that, while plot-holes COULD push the problem away, makes it meh, like the effects of a planet's destruction on Earth, Haggis and Otter being responsible for the fiasco of the bomb-switchage (despite being in Jupiter), the mention of "Jupiteronians" or whatever they were called, and Pingu being called an inanimate clay thing...:confused:

Like I said though, we'll see what happens. If it can work, I'm not about to ignore it -- it's fortunate we have April 1 to work this with.

So get postin' people!
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2005-04-01, 2:00 PM #366
So, I've made my substantially weak April Fool's post. Perhaps one of these years I'll come up with something truly outrageous.

Then again, perhaps one day I'll continue the earthside of the story.
Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt.
2005-04-02, 12:14 PM #367
So now that April 1 has passed all over the globe, please post whether you all think we should run with this or go back before it all happened or somewhere in between, and please give your reasons why.

I do not have the time at this moment to give my opinions with reasons and the pros and cons at this time, but I'll share them when I can. Please do not wait for me to share your own.
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2005-04-02, 5:33 PM #368
I vote that everything that happened after Tracer's post be fiction. Well, more fictional than the usual fiction.

Reason: Tracer's post could be argued away as another zany plot advancement. Everything after is acknowledging itself as out and out ridiculous.
The Last True Evil - consistent nobody in the Discussion Forum since 1998
2005-04-02, 7:31 PM #369
I say we include everything up to CM's post where he destroys the universe. I rather like where things were going, up until there. Then it just got a little trippy and existential. Or non-existential. Or something.

I do like the idea of Jupiter becoming a second sun. I kinda like the idea of NeS diverging more and more from the "Real World". It has potential.

So yeah, that's my vote. The post with the heat death of the universe and the ensuing stuff should be fictionalized. Or undone somehow -- after all, CM still has all that "April Fool's Power" that could be used somehow.
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
2005-04-02, 8:42 PM #370
I was talking to Geb about this, and I figured the whole time that Pingu the crazy penguin would somehow restore everything. Maybe like do time travel. (And for kicks, have him only be able to do it once, but never say anything about this, after all, no one asked him :D )
2005-04-02, 11:49 PM #371
For simplicity, my opinion is that everything after and including Tracer's post should be somehow undone. Simplicity is not the only reason, by far, for my opinion, just the most convinient.

However, we wrote some good material, and I like CM's general idea of Pingu (or another force) re-rolling time back and/or using the borked plothole pistol Pingu has or whatever, so that we can say these events/ideas/etc. are "really" a part of NeS... so my hopes is that we can have one last post that does this (rerolling back time or the equivilant.)

Some specifics to touch on:

TLTE: I'm pretty sure that most of the writers who posted after Tracer (himself included) intended to make their posts work both as zany holiday specials AND possible plot-advancements. I know at least I and Pingu were.

Krig: While I may be misinterpreting your intentions, I'm not terribley keen on abandoning the "real world" foundation. I like to hold on to the theme of absurdity in relation to our lives -- changing the backdrop of NeS would distance the (theoretical <_<) audience in a way I'd rather not want. I realize defining the line(s) that show the boundaries of the "real world" from something else in regards to something like NeS is difficult, as there is much smudging of the lines, but whatever steps that are meant to set NeS outside the "real world" are steps I'd rather not take.

Ante: On a note that you brought up with me, in regards to these events, I did want to reiterate again that I did like the idea of a figure-8 orbit and an Earth that saw more sunlight (though it still seems a lot more likely that it'd be less romantic and more uh... hot, even in regards to NeS.)

I hope you all will agree with me on my opinion.
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2005-04-03, 11:29 AM #372
Well, I certainly don't mind ze pengy fixing everything. Wee! You want me to do it, or does someone else wanna?
2005-04-03, 1:29 PM #373
Geb: to be honest, I don't really care about all that -- I just thought it'd be cool to have two suns above the regular Earth, rather than some alien planet. :P

I mean, we had Canada being ruled by a demon as the ninth circle of Hell, why not two suns, at least for a while? This is the NeS, things can always be changed.
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
2005-04-03, 2:14 PM #374
Like I said, where the lines are drawn can be difficult to make at times. The lines, however, I feel ARE strongly dependant on what strengthens the presentational aspect of NeS, and I'm not seeing that with Tracer's post. If you don't like the presentational argument, think representational: do the lines refering to Pingu being clay make sense? Do the lines refering to how Haggis and Otter seem to be on the Demonrock or at least responsible&knowledgable about a bomb that was placed probably mere moments before make sense? How could a bomb capable of destroying a planet NOT destroy a significant chunk of the Astroid Belt like a galactic fragmentation grenade? How could a station orbiting Jupiter survive a planetary explosion that later turns into a star? These may seem stupid, but these are likely the same types of suspension of disbelief questions that are raised in comics and the like (How does nobody know that Clark Kent is Superman, nevermind that he has SUPER POWERS), and I'm pretty sure blaming it on plotholes in this case would be a cop-out. And if you don't buy any of THAT, ask if any of that stuff was funny. Tracer has made great posts before, but I don't think this latest one was anything close to his level of comedy.

Would it not be simpler to just "start over?" Is there really anything to be gained other than "coolness" from such an idea, and weigh it against the cons. Please, let me know -- I seem to be in the minority among the veterans here, and despite my strong opinion on the matter, I hold a stronger opinion that NeS remain democratic. My opinions mean squat if I'm the only one who thinks it when it comes to NeS.
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2005-04-03, 7:53 PM #375
I think you're over-thinking this, my friend. When has NeS ever made sense? I mean, we had a story-arc involving Santa Claus and a UFO, for cryin' out loud. I agree that Haggis and Otter suddenly being in outer space for some reason is rather confusing, but it could be explained with some flashbacks. The questions about physics, though, are only relevant in drama, not slapstick comedy.

(BTW, the remark about Pingu being clay is because of the origins of the Pingu character -- as the subject of several claymation short films. It's a fourth-wall-breaking joke, rather than somehow saying that the penguin is actually composed of clay. ;) )

Also, for those of us who haven't gone to fancy-pants writer's college (:P ), what exactly is presentationalism, again? I was under the impression it was something like "deliberately unrealistic so as to get a point accross", but that doesn't really sound like what you're talking about.
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
2005-04-03, 8:07 PM #376
I'd just like to take a moment to say I've been given a green-light by the Gebbinator to make an attempt at creating something neat out of this wild and craziness. So, give me a bit and we'll see what happens (ie. I'm gonna start throwing my ideas into the melting pot of my typings after I get home from work but before I get to sleep.)
Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt.
2005-04-03, 10:13 PM #377
Perhaps I am over-thinking it, but I'd like to think I'm not. In any case, like Ante said, he talked over some ideas with me and I've seen the potential for more than just coolness or an attempt to break from the "real world" (not necessarily realistic, mind you, I'll get to that in a moment) for its own sake.

Now let's get to representational vs. presentational.

Quote:
representational style: performance mode in which the actors seem to ignore the presence of the audience.
presentational style: performance mode in which the actors openly ackknowledge the presence of the audience and play with it.

~from The Longman Anthology of Drama and Theater: A Global Perspective.


Since the definitions in of themselves are lacking, here's an longer exerpt from the same source on "styles." (Please read, as a lot of it IS useful for my explination, and it's taking me a long time to type this stuff out.)

Quote:
Style is the manner in which a play is written, directed, designed, and performed. Because it implies the degree of artificiality involved in the performance, perhaps it is easier to see style in nonrealistic works. Both the classical Greek style and Kabuki, for instance, use masks, padded costumes, and elevated shoes. And in both, the writing employs heightened language, much of it sung and danced. By contrast, the style demanded by American realists such as David Mamet and Marsha Norman is as far removed from a Greek or Kabuki performance as one can imagine. The actors wear clothing that seems "everyday." They talk in conversational, intimate tones, while movement, gestures, and body attitudes seem entirely natural, even antitheatrical. Some critics propose that modern realism is "antistyle," though realism does have a definable style.

Theater productions in all cultures can be divided into two principal performance styles: presentational and representational. The latter, with which Western audiences may be more familiar, asks the audience to accept as "real" that which they see onstage. It is most closely associated with modern Western theater. Presentational theater ackknowledges the presence of spectators who know they are watching a theatrical event. Thus it uses such conventions as direct address to the audience through asides, soliloquies, and songs. The actors are as apt to play to the audience as to each other. Shakespeare opens his history play Henry V with an actor stepping foreward to address the audience in a speech that is a presecription for presentational theater:

Piece out our imperfections with your thoughts;
Into a thousand parts divide one man
And make imaginary puissance.
Think, when we talk of horses, that you see them
Printing their proud hoofs i' th' receiving earth;
For 'tis your thoughts that now must deck our kings...


In presentational theater, the design elements are overtly theatrical -- or, at the other extreme, nonexistant -- with little pretense of realism. In fact, this style is often referred to as theatrical because it reminds us that what we see onstage is an imaginative "lie" that is only a metaphor for life, not life itself.

With the representational style, the "lie" exists in the auditorium because it suggests that the audience is not really in a theater, but that it is eavesdropping upon actual life through an invisible "fourth wall" into a private room. In A Doll's House, Henrik Ibsen describes the realistic detail of the Helmer household in his opening stage direction: A comfortably and tastefully, but not expensively furnished room. . . . Engravings on the wall. A what-not with china and other bric-a-brac; a small bookcase with leather-bound books. A carpet on the floor; a fire in the stove. In the representational theater there is often less call for the audience's "imaginary forces" to work.

Furthermore, the actors do not openly acknowledge the presence of the audience, though they are always carefully gauging its response. They play to one another onstage, though they usually "cheat out" so that they remain more visible to the audience. The design elements attempt to convince the audience that everthing it sees and hears is "the real thing."

Is it possible to blend the presentational and representational styles in one production? It happens frequently. Death of a Salesman, an essentially realistic play, is overlaid with a theatrical style. Willy's "visions" are nonrealistic conventions that allow the audience to see inside his troubled mind. Bertolt Brecht frequently achieves his "alienation effect" by changing styles abruptly to provoke the audience into thinking about the play's issues. Some Latino theater artists favor a style known as magical realism, which allows a play to shift between realism and the fantastical in a heartbeat. Chilean playwright Egon Wolff's Paper Flowers employs this style for both thematic and theatrical purposes.

Directors may tell their designers that they want to do a "stylized" version of a play, and the designers understand that they are being asked for a nonrealistic approach. For instance, Giles Havergill "stylized" Chekhov's The Seagull for the Glasgow Citizens' Theater by having each actor sit facing the audience as he or she recited the lines of the first act as a poem. Conversely, John Barton's 1979 production of The Merchant of Venice for the Royal Shakespeare Company was both acted and designed as if it were a modern realistic play.

Styles often reflect the time or philosophy of the society that produces them. The deliberate movement and chanting of the Noh theater has its roots in Buddhist meditation, while the classic theater of India uses dance because drama was shaped by Siva, the Lord of the Dance. In contrast, Western realism is largely a synthesis of ninteenth-century scientific empiricism and the democratic revolution that swept Eurpoe and America. Hence, its style mirrors the daily activities of ordinary people who are observed in a laboratory-like setting that meticulously recreates their environment. One can more fully appreciate a theater piece, printed or performed, by knowing some of the cultural contexts of both the age that produced it and the age in which it is currently preformed.

The "Isms" are another way of catagorizing various theatrical styles. "Ism" is a much-used suffix that denotes both a distinctive doctrine and the characteristic features associated with it. For instance, the Greeks believed in the ideal of a harmonious, well-ordered cosmos; therefore, they placed a premium on simplicity, balance, proportion, and symmetry -- characteristics we associate with Classicism. Conversely, Romanticism embraces extremes, contrast, freedom of form and experimentation, all an outgrowth of the Romantic belief that humans should be free from restraint and rules. Compare the Greek temple with the picture of the Pavilion at Brighton, England, which was built at the height of the Romantic era. Specific Isms, such as Expressionism or Theatricalism, will be examined within the context of particular plays and in the discussion of historical contexts preceding each group of plays.

In addition to the so-called Isms, many movements within the theater have characteristic styles. They include the theater of the absurd, the epic theater, and the theater of cuelty. Many of these mvements freely combine other forms. Brecht's epic theater, for instance, grew out of German Expressionism during World War I, yet it also employs Theatricalism, Realism, and Romanticism to achieve its ends.


So, in short, presentational means neither to be "deliberately unrealistic so as to get a point accross" nor is it exactly what I had in mind when I bring up the importance in keeping NeS presentational -- it's broader than either, and can include either.

What needs to be defined now is what I mean when I keep bringing up this idea of the presentational style, and why. What I am asking when I bring these ideas up is why are we using a certain style (or combination of styles) for whatever it is we happen to be writing. I find this question important because it drives the themes in NeS and carries messages for or against that which we write about.

I will admit that most of my language in talking about this matter is directed partially to Krig, because, for one, he's arguably the biggest NeS verteran next to myself, and I've gotten the distinct impression that he (but certainly not only him) do not take comedy as a serious means of expression. (Comedy in this sense to mean comedic, not just the general idea of a happy ending). "Geb can never grow to be more than a coward who runs away from the sight of a mouse because that would decrease potential comedy" or "Writers shouldn't deal with serious issues in a story whose significant purpose is in making people laugh (or comedic stories are less/not qualified for serious issues/themes; dramatic stories are qualified)" are two common problems of mine that stem from this.

I will ALSO admit that I have some personal connections with writing for NeS, and that it has gotten in the way of the most important aspect for anyone writing for NeS (and generally any interactive story) -- that people should be having fun. I know my "fancy-pants college ways" and the like often ask too much to be followed by other writers, and I forget at times, especially when it comes to those who have written for so long and so well. I have been fortunate to have so many times when I do ride the same train of thought as the rest of you, and the few times we do conflict I feel I gain something from it. Thea beauty of interactive writing, I suppose.

I hope you all have gained some insight into my thoughts on the matter. As always, these thoughts are merely just that -- thoughts, to be food for thought at the most. It is not required in the least bit that anyone accept these thoughts as valid possibilities for NeS, though I would hope you would take the challange to do so.
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2005-04-04, 3:41 AM #378
Well, take this on board -

*Despite my comparative infancy in the face of Gebohq and Krig, I place myself at the forefront of this debate because my writings for the NeS (and there is a decent body of my work there) are arguably the closest to breaking the comedic discipline that Geb is referring to. More frequently than anyone else (save perhaps Highemperor) my posts deal with the oft-maligned dramatic component of NeS - plot and character advancement, meaningful dialogue and so on. When I first joined this writing cadre, I saw the comedic aspect of the NeS as more of an obstacle - a hoop I had to jump through in order to get to the serious stuff. That view continues with me to this day, although I tend to enjoy the comedy a little bit more now.

So now that I've blown my own trumpet for a while, my thoughts. Is Geb over-thinking this one? Yeah, I happen to agree with Krig. Look, we're never going to publish this baby, and the maximum appreciation anyone else seems to get out of it is posting "and then everybody died LOLOLOL". It's comedy, not a thesis on the components of comedy. I thought Tracer's post was as funny as ever (then again, Tracer could write anything and I'd probably laugh) and I think we could include it.




*I was at university today thinking "assuming we have to blank out this whole messy sub-chapter of the NeS, how do we do it without a total cop-out?" and I came up with what I thought to be a great idea. However, Ante has the approval to fix this one up, not myself. A dilemma!

So in the end I wrote it (or will write it in about an hour) anyway, and just wanted to say - Ante, if you think my idea sucked the big one, continue with your designs and erase my post with it.

I just thought the idea of the NeSketchpad was a particularly good (and rewarding in the long-term) idea.
The Last True Evil - consistent nobody in the Discussion Forum since 1998
2005-04-04, 4:18 AM #379
Oh Last True Evil One:

First off, I :p at you calling yourself anything but a super-veteran of NeS. You've always given yourself too little credit. Krig and I may have had a 15-20 page headstart, but as far as NeS is concerned, that's like the first 50 pages of a Stephen King book. Besides, the influence of the TLTE characters alone have made you a founding father of NeS, to put it in excessively dramatic words.

Which brings me to my next point: I fear I've miscommunicated my thoughts on the matter. The point I was trying to make is that a comedy CAN have plot and character advancement, meaningful dialogue, and so on -- "dramatic" writing was meant more to imply how "seriously the content takes itself"... just trying to find the right words shows how confusing it can be to try and explain (what I feel is) a misconception in comedic writing vs dramatic writing. I'm pretty sure Krig had the same problem you did in regards to "overcome" the obstacle of trying to be funny (again, something I feel you both tried too hard with and didn't trust in your own writing to let the comic moments come naturally).

As for my thoughts, like I said, perhaps I do take them too seriously, but whether I do or not, I've never been concerned with writing for the general public -- I wrote for myself, and for the other writers. My goals in hoping to be a good writer may rub off on being good reading material for the general audience, but it is not my goal to please them. Despite the joking I make, I do not spend way too much of my time thinking of NeS in hopes of selling out to The Man, and I have a feeling those of you who do the same don't either.

As for the rest you mentioned: I apologize for any problems I caused -- I do what I can to keep the power of "approval" and control over NeS in general out of my hands, like Gandalf with the One Ring, but like I also said, I have personal connections with NeS, so I find myself unconsciously holding on to the Ring just like Bilbo :p

In any case, we're usually capable of improvising, so things should be fine -- that was part of the point of doing the April Fool's posts after all :p
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2005-04-04, 4:46 AM #380
I am humbled, boss-man. Thank you for setting it all straight.
The Last True Evil - consistent nobody in the Discussion Forum since 1998
2005-04-04, 5:48 AM #381
:-/

Good postin', good postin'. You portrayed GebtW quite well, though I have a feeling that it wasn't God but the other writers who are helping him out. Or they should be, if the Writers are suppose to reflect "real life" us. ;)

Now to see how Ante strikes the set...
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2005-04-04, 11:17 AM #382
Note to self: add a "table of contents" for NeSo (page 1) and NeSquared (page 51) with either or both by page number and by storyarc. Perhaps have a bar with page numbers for the first post of each page. Dern new forums making accessing the "meat" of the NeSo pages difficult... the human NeS encyclopedia needs to function at its highest efficiency...

<_<
>_>
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2005-04-04, 12:59 PM #383
On the contrary, I think comedy can be used as a very powerful medium for more serious issues. Humour tends to forge a strong bond between the reader and the character, which can then be used to great dramatic effect, as in the final posts of NeSo. Who was the one who spend months slaving over the world's biggest epic post again? :P

(Not to mention my plans for the character development of Krig, which has sadly been sidelined for a while now, but which I still plan to do something-or-other with.)

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be fine with whatever Ante comes up with. It's all good. :)
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
2005-04-04, 4:42 PM #384
Quote:
Originally posted by Gebohq
Note to self: add a "table of contents" for NeSo (page 1) and NeSquared (page 51) with either or both by page number and by storyarc. Perhaps have a bar with page numbers for the first post of each page. Dern new forums making accessing the "meat" of the NeSo pages difficult... the human NeS encyclopedia needs to function at its highest efficiency...

<_<
>_>


You get NeS converted to a TXT doc with either breaks in Story Arcs or new files for each, and I can put it on NeSI (or the NeS web hub, which is slowing coming around :/ )
2005-04-04, 4:48 PM #385
Ooooooo, NeS web hub...

Can it be in a Word Document? Otherwise, all the italics and bold and stuff will be lost. In any case, whenever I would get around to sending it, I'd still do something with table of contents as said before here too.

/me still drools at prospect of NeS web hub...
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2005-04-05, 5:17 AM #386
Just an update: My musings are going onto electronic paper shortly. Don't worry, TLTE, your post can still fit, it'll just add more tension to my current scenario.
Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt.
2005-04-05, 7:03 AM #387
Well, the post's up. This should give people the ability to change things around. A bit. I think. I'm hungry.

Note from Geb: (because I'm too stingy to make a seperate post) For those of you who were confused like myself, the box at the end of Ante's post holds Ahnuld's parts, which might be sent back to the Haunted House of Heroes.
Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt.
2005-04-05, 4:38 PM #388
I just thought I'd mention that I tried prodding TACC's ISB again. I mean, just look at the tumbleweed passing through it.
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2005-04-05, 11:19 PM #389
Some of you guys take NeS more seriously than others (which is cool), but I think it's important to keep the story straightforeward enough that guys don't have to do painstaking research to join in.

My post was made sort-of seriously...I realize that it sucks when somebody shows up and posts something that runs opposite to your ideas, but that's part of the risk in writing a collective story (it's also part of the fun). My take would be to run with it, though it's not my call.

My point: I tried to explain why things were happening and not abuse the continuity, but I also just took what was written in the previous few posts and ran with the ideas. IMO, if someone can't read a few preceeding posts and jump right in then the story starts to get lost in it's own complexity. It should always be obvious where the main characters are and what their immediate goals are (IMO).
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2005-04-06, 8:56 AM #390
Because I can't shush:

Tracer -- you are right. It was the reason why I had internal conflict with regards to your post. I knew we were suppose to roll with it, but I couldn't think of a good way to do so, and so I fell back to standard writer logic. I'm glad Ante was able to show me good ways to roll, but I should have just had more faith in you other writers to start with.

With that said, I'd like to point out that this is reason for the update section existing (yes, I do try to keep it up to date), though of course we should do what we can to include such information in the posts themselves regularly as well (perhaps we should start adapting Sluggy-style recaps...) I also do not take back any of the points I made -- I still feel that NeS should ideally follow the principles and such I have made, but only after following the principles of interactive story writing, of which Tracer made note of in the above post.

I'm sorry for not having given your latest story post the credit it deserved. You are an unsung hero of NeS.

*hugs Tracer*
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2005-04-06, 1:37 PM #391
On the topic of Sluggy-style recaps: I was thinking the same thing. In fact, I've been meaning to include one in a post, but have never got around to it. If there was ever a story that needed recaps, NeS is it. ;)

From Geb: Like, 3 recaps per post <_<
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
2005-04-07, 1:18 PM #392
Just a note on The Dust:

The name and nature of The Dust (in part thanks to Antestarr) was to reflect some quality of The Darkside. Notably, it's meant to be flexible enough to be taken both seriously (with its history and power) and/or not-seriously (get out the dustpan and broom, we got cleaning to do!) I do not mind if The Dust is forever defeated even in a mocking manner -- in fact, it's what I figure should happen to Helebon, and the death of the Darkside's "father" and "mother" should provoke some reaction. However, I know there may be interest in keeping either or both around by provoking good characteristics and the like, so yeah... Just wanted to fill you all in on that.
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2005-04-09, 8:26 AM #393
'nother semi-random note:

As you may know, Gebohq technically has history between the end of page 50 and the beginning of page 51, though the effects (if any) are all on a subconscious level, something like the fun with the restraurant at the end of the universe. That history involves Geb dimension-hopping and having crazy adventures of his own. Two of those places known so far is Story Arcade and Gaming Guardians, and now a third is the Napping Cat's Dream. Feel free to see my first intro RP thread into the NCD here:

What Was Cut
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2005-04-16, 1:10 PM #394
Holy hand grenades i've missed alot. sorry guys i've been away waaaaaaaayyyyyy too long. I just read all the workshop stuff i missed, but I haven't managed to read the story itself. i'm going to read up on everything i've missed in the story tomorrow when i get some free hours and then maybe write the post i've been thinking of making for a looong time with will hopefully allow my guy to be more readily accepted into the fold. I haven't read recently, like i said, so maybe people are using Bhac, i'm not sure, but i have a feeling its not so. Qwerty was just starting to be accepted with Kirbs and I did all that, and i have an idea to hopefully let people use him more, so maybe i'll get that post up tommorrow. Anyhoo, just letting people know i'm still aliev and am coming back.

Also, since the biggest conversation recently seems to be about comedy vs drama, i thought i'd wiegh in. I know that, compared to basically everyone except maybe three people i'm he 'youngest' here, i'm also one of those, like TLTE and Highemp, who tend to write very dramatically. now, i know i have actually been accosted once before for not being funny, but i wanted to say that it is ntirely possible to be dramatic and funny at the same time. the one interaction between Mayaal,Bhac, and the clone of JKtW (which is probably now about 5 pages back, but oh,well), is a great example (assuming you liked my writing there). I had a perfectly serious argument going on between the first two, but JKtW provided comedic relief all the way through. Things got done, but it was funny. Comic relief doesn't have to ruin the drama, it can even make it more suspenceful if you use it right. AS long as you seperate between the funn bits and the serious bits, i think its not really that hard to add laughs in.

Anywaym that's enough of my blabbering for one day. Toodleoo, hopefully you'll see m face in the NeS2 tomorrow
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²
"I consume the life essence itself!... Preferably medium rare" - Mauldis

-----@%
2005-04-17, 12:52 PM #395
Hurray Noble!

Question for TLTE: It's rather appropriate that, since TLTE "lost" power since NeSo (the power over clones, as they no longer exist, or at least most of them <_<) that Michael would have gained power, but what power HAS he gained specifically? I was just curious what you had in mind. It seems Michael has something like the former avatar of NeS, but "dark", with the morphing his physical form via paper... is this correct?

For those of you who have forgotten/don't know, Michael was originally a lot more "human" similar to Geb. In fact, the only "power" he really demonstrated before was a shakey sense of precognition.

In any case, I've liked seeing this come together. We definately seem to be setting up a theme of "the writers are screwing the characters over" theme for NeSquared, and I likes (poor Pingu will certainly feel familiar with it anyway, to say the least, but do not fear, it's not intended to be your "punishment" ;) ).

P.S. Oh yeah... to TLTE: "Ultimate Convention?" It would seem a bit of Highemp rubbed off on TLTE in NeS :)
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http://forums.theplothole.net
2005-04-17, 1:46 PM #396
I feel a disturbance in the Force, Geb. It's scaring me...

*holds Geb tight*
2005-04-18, 7:11 AM #397
All valid points Geb, and ones which I have the answers to...but I feel that in terms of story pacing and progression, I should wait for at least one other person to post. It's got nothing to do with the uni party I'm about to go to. Honest.

EDIT: And yes, you're right...he may be absent, but unlikely as it is, he's influenced my writing style and I'll emulate his presence in the NeS as best I can :)
The Last True Evil - consistent nobody in the Discussion Forum since 1998
2005-04-24, 1:23 PM #398
Ok, i've finally made the psot i was supposed to a long time ago. Just for reference, people, Qwerty is Bhac. He's going to act like Qwerty, though, at least for awhile.
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²
"I consume the life essence itself!... Preferably medium rare" - Mauldis

-----@%
2005-04-24, 10:57 PM #399
Feel free to smack me over the head if this has been posted before on the workshop, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't. I thought this would be best posted here -- it was originally written by Highemperor (in Arkng Thand's POV), on September 5, 2004, and some information here is contradictory to currently-written NeS material and/or not correct.

Arkng Thand's Treatise

Blood & Ink: A Synthesis of NeStian Metaphysics
~~by Arkng Thand, Scholar of Deitopos

INTRODUCTION

Metaphysics is a delicate subject, never more so than when approaching the realm of something so malleable as the Neverending Story (or, more precisely, its "current" incarnation, the Neverending Story Squared). I say "current", because in truth, the Neverending Story (hereinafter referred to as "the NeS") is an extratemporal entity, continuous in its own discontinuity. It is a mishmash of paradox, of parallel lines that cross. The only way to understand it is in terms of so-called "skewed lines", that is, by entering into a higher dimension of thought. This I have attempted in this treatise.

A HISTORY OF THE OHQS

The Ohq family has always played a very important role in the NeS. The NeS has many beginnings, and in each of them there is an Ohq. In the realm of the Writers, an Ohq (Geb I) was there since its inception and refined it into an actual story thread. In the realm of the story, the same Ohq (or rather, his avatar) became the first bumbling hero to define the thread, and is indeed, more than anyone else, its central character. However, the Ohq clan's history goes much further back than that. The Ohqs apparently always had bloodink running through their veins, as nearly as historians can tell, and were a family blessed by the WriterGod. My theory, based on my extensive researches, is that the bloodink was first introduced into the line by Gaius Ohq, the Roman centurion who, in the story realm, swallowed some of the WriterMessiah's blood while He hung from Calvary. (This of course raises some interesting questions about the origin of Desmond and perhaps all NeSferatu in general, but these concerns will be addressed later.) In any case, the Ohq line can be definitively be traced back to the 7th century A.D., with a medieval writer known as Augustyn Ohq penning the text in his own blood (the first documented use of bloodink) which is believed to have been used by the seer Nostradamus in his own prophesying. No official record of the Ohqs exist before then, though undoubtedly such loss of the clan's beginnings is in large part due to the inefficiency of Microsoft's record-keeping systems. It is from Augustyn Ohq that we will begin our tracing of truly historical figues in the Ohq dynasty.

While Augustyn had no children, being a celibate priest of NeStianity, his sister continued the Ohq line. The next Ohq of note appeared in the Industrial Revolution, being born in 1856, just before the American Civil War. This, of course, is the Ohq historians are commonly familiar with: Erro Ohq II, founder of the world's first League of Heroes in 1873. Erro was the son of Baron (Erro) Ohq I, and was something of an imaginative child. However, he formed a childhood friendship with King Emp, the king of the Armenians. (Legends, of course, persist that the bond between the Emps and the Ohqs goes much further back than that time period.)

In 1873, Erro Ohq (II) uncovered the Crystal Cave, awaking an ancient wizard known as Merlin, who commanded him to found the League of Heroes. Erro did so, and became the leader of a mighty contingent whose like has never been seen since. Some members of this illustrious confederation were Badger, the superhumanly strong and agile werebadger; The 13th True Evil, the cursed descendant of The FIRST True Evil; Admiral Randall I, whose submariner skills rivaled that of the mythic Captain Nemo; and King Emp, whose skill as a mountedarcher was unmatched, even by his fellow Armenians.

Erro's doom was sealed in his final battle with his archnemesis Count Desmond, lord of the NeSferatu. In it, he saw, as the poet, scholar, and enchanter Mustang put it, "something which no mortal should bear". This glance aged him prematurely, so that he died within ten years, at the ripe young age of 40. What he saw, no one was quite sure, as Erro never revealed it to his contemporaries; however, a close look into the memoirs of Mustang and a comparison with Jim Seven (commonly called Satan)'s war journals reveals that he saw the ultimate doom of bloodink. (To be explained further.)

Erro's body disappeared from its sepulcher the night after he was buried, and its disappearance was suspected to have something to do with King Emp, who vanished that same night.

Though there were some decorated war heroes from the Ohq line in the World Wars, they did not further the development of NeS, and as such will be skipped over for the sake of space, so as not to waste it, which I notice, I'm wasting anyway, in telling you this. Ah, well.

This brings us to the prophesied twins, Geb and Losien Ohq, born in that order within two minutes of each other. While Geb was always meek and mild, his sister Losien took those traits (common to the Ohq family throughout the ages) to new heights of naivete and vulnerability. Though she died tragically at the hands of Morthrandur, the Sepulchral Phantom, one might say that she matured, thanks in large part to the steadfast love of the sometime-villain, sometime-hero, The Last True Evil, so-called because he had no heirs, beyond the possibility of the rival of the True Evil family, TFFE (The First False Evil).

Geb Ohq (commonly known as Gebohq), brought the seed that was NeS to its full development at the height of its incubation. He unwittingly founded a NEW league of heroes, called the Legion of Heroes, initially based in Big Ben, London, England. While the NeS was originally troubled by minor villains, its form was taking shape, and finally as it rose up, so did its opposite: the Ever-Ending Plot, bane of all that was NeS. It was thanks to all the heroes, from Highemperor's initial discovery of the threat to Geb's final sacrifice that enabled the NeS to square itself into survival.

Geb went on to become the plotwielder of the NeS. His final fate is unknown.

Here it is interesting to note that several alternate versions of Geb began appearing including Gebiyl, who at one point became the real version before switching back.

In the 22nd century, Asa Ohq was born, and inherited the mantle of leadership of the heroes. He was an unremarkable leader, and is noted only because he was the one to disband the legion.

Thousands more Ohqs trickled in over the course of the ages, but the blood(ink) of the line grew thinner and thinner. The last Ohq to truly be an Ohq was Morthrandur, the Sepulchral Phantom. He was only part Ohq; he was also part Emp, supposedly, and in addition part everyone in the cosmos.

It is here that we bring our history of the Ohqs to a close.

DECIPHERING THE CODE

Today, it is nearly impossible to sort fact from fiction, of course, but we can distinguish the two by applying the "leet" code (1337) to the history.

Let's begin.

"Ohq", of course, is rendered 046 in leet, and serves as the touchstone by which the Ohq "code" is measured against.

Here's a quick list of the leet renditions of the most noteworthy Ohqs.

Erro Ohq: 3|2|20 046
Geb Ohq: 936 046
Asa Ohq: @5@ 046
Morthrandur: |v| 0 |2 7 4 |2 @ |\| |) ? |2

We see that, while Erro most closely resembles its decoded counterpart,as time progresses, the similarity between the encoded name and the decryption decreases drastically. What can be inferred from this is that the language of leet is drastically altered or perhaps even decreased in usage (the horror!) as time goes on.

Only two conclusions can be drawn from this. Either leet is altered into something unrecognizable by currently developed cortically functional understandings of characters today, or leet is replaced by something. Either way, something monumentally advanced comes into play by the time of Morthrandur. Leet is barely comprehended today, or at least is comprehended as not being comprehended, but when cortically developed mindsets surpass it, who can know what will come after? I refer to this as the Neocortical Calculus. We will be exploring this more indepth later.

-----

BLOODINK

Where did it come from? We all recognize bloodink for its power and authority; even Highemperor, who once acknowledged himself sovereign over the NeS, respected its power; indeed, it was the source of his power.

With great effort, I have captured a sample of living bloodink cells for study. After generations of work, I have determined that bloodink, while alive, is, quite literally, all-overpowering. The problem is, that its life can only be sustained by more life; that is, by being contained within a living vessel; i.e., a human heart. Once it is taken out and put on paper to write, it dies and loses the majority of its power... yet even its echoes are so potent that all creation pales before its majesty.

We know that bloodink was used by AncientWriter the Writer in Atlantis, but its use was discontinued by BelmonttheWriter in A.D. 1166, when vampires started drinking it and lessening its effect on stories. This leads me to believe that the NeSferatu, who specifically feed on bloodink (as opposed to the more vampires nosferatu, who feed on mere mortal blood), were created specifically for the purpose of keeping bloodink cells alive. They could collect all bloodink within themselves, and then their own living bodies would perpetuate the bloodink indefinitely, thus lending complete and total permanence to the story they resided in.

There are very few ACTUAL neverending stories in existence, but this one, the NeS, as NeSferatu have been encountered within it before, must have been given its essential neverending quality by the fact that NeSferatu dwelt within it. This naturally leads one to the conclusion that NeSferatu are still alive today. Perhaps if all the NeSferatu were destroyed, THEN it would be possible for the NeS to stop.

But that is a matter of discussion for another day. The question now is... where did the NeSferatu come from? Who created them? And why did their leader, Count Desmond, (seem to) turn evil?

It is here that our topic shifts to the WriterGod.

THE WRITERGOD: LORD & CREATOR

It is well documented, and is admitted in nearly every legend and fable, that the WriterGod exists. It is definitively known also that his spirit is unquenchable. After having conducted several interviews with the intermediaries of the WriterGod and obtaining the results of my own investigative experiments, I have confirmed that bloodink is the manifestation of the WriterGod's power throughout all Creation. It does not matter whether such and such a part of Creation exists or not, or somewhere else; it is part of Creation nonetheless, and is kept that way by the WriterGod's power/bloodink.

When comparing various apocryphal texts with Nestian literary sources, one is easily able to figure out that "messengers" (also known as angels) were created by the WriterGod to transfer and oversee the flow of bloodink in Creation, to serve as living vessels for it. These, then, are the NeSferatu, those angelic messengers who converted to evil.

The WriterGod's role is self-defined, to maintain Creation, to create it every moment anew. The free will inherent in those mortals who possess bloodink within their arteries determines itself which story shall live and which shall die, within the scope of the WriterGod's purpose. He of course overpowers all things.

THE PLOTFRACTAL

The plot of the NeS is a fractal, as anyone moderately acquainted with the story knows, meaning that the story grows upon itself in a pattern, one that remains the same both the further out and further in one goes. This pattern is that of neverendingness.

There have been many protectors of the plotfractal over the aeons, but the most famous was JKtheWhite, who served as a protector alone, without anyone else to assist him and succeeded in perpetuating the NeS beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Their purpose was to make sure that the neverending element not only exists within the NeS but exists as its principal quality. They did those primarily by causing conflict.

THE NATURE OF CONFLICT

Conflict, naturally, is the clash of two opposing wills. As the ancient Greeks put it, "the beginning of citory is resistance"; that is, conflict begins the INSTANT that is opposition, even in one's thoughts. Conflict must seem neverending, for there are obviously multiple wills in Creation. However, there is a chance that conflict should end, as Creation (and thusly, all wills contained therein) is ruled by a Creator: that is, the WriterGod.

Ergo, if the WriterGod should choose to bring all wills into union under Himself, conflict will end, and the protectors of the plotfractal will be without recourse to maintain the neverending element of the NeS. It is therefore necessary to prepare additional defenses ahead of time. The only possibility for continuing the story in absentia of conflict is to bring the story in tandem with the unified will of the Creation, whatever that may be.

Of course, the unified will of Creation will be that of the Creator, the WriterGod, and the debate of what exactly the WriterGod's will IS has been raging for all time; I will not attempt to enter this highly volatile arena in this treatise. However, it is in the interest of the protectors of the plotfractal to consult the WriterGod's intermediaries in order that His will may indeed be determined.

NEOCORTICAL CALCULUS

This is my theorem of post-leet thinking. If, as shown previously, leet shall be overcome by something greater that we cannot currently comprehend, what will that post-leet paradigm be? Enter the systematic mode of neocortical calculus.

Leet has always been based on numbers. But it is possibly, nay necessary, that a new system must rise up based on a higher form of thought. However, all forms of thought are self-evidently traced back to THOUGHT itself. And when thought itself advances, i.e. when the human mind mutates and develops beyond itself... then we have a neocortical function. And functions are merely integers in a greater calculus. Hence... neocortical calculus, the theorem thereof.

What will this neocortical calculus be?

If current metapsychic functions can be considered mathematics and literary/artistic creativity, neocortical functions must consist of a higher function, perhaps a synthetic actualization of NeStianity - which holds as its central tenet the overcoming power of the WriterGod's gift of His writing Self to NeStians - in which the writers and their Characters(TM) unite in self and ascend to dwell with the WriterGod "for neverending and neverending", as it is said in popular NeStian texts.

CHARACTERS(TM)

These are the central points of the NeS, the figures by which everything else is defined. Even the WriterGod pours Himself into these the crown of His creations.

But what are they?

They are flesh and blood (sometimes bloodink). They are ink on paper. THEY ARE IDEAS. And as long as the free market of ideas flourishes, then shall the NeS perpetuate itself in a neverending eternity everlasting.

End 1st Ed.
The Plothole: a home for amateur, inclusive, collaborative stories
http://forums.theplothole.net
2005-04-27, 10:48 PM #400
Y'know, I think I've read that one before. Maybe I got the original e-mail.
So sayest the Writer of Silly Things!
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