Stuff from page 36. Keep in mind that the notes are only quick references and don't necessarily reflect content or relevance in accurate entirety.

page 15 - a moment with past-Morris, Ares' clone, Burby, as well as several moments with past-heroes as X-men
page 15 - starter of original thread commenting and continued parts with past-NeS heroes as X-men
page 15 - past-Otter rallies Blue Meanies, only to have them eaten by Morris
page 15 - past-NeS heroes are placed into FF7
page 15 - past-Writers, distracted by their own fantasies, consider applying elsewhere, and past-heroes continue adapting to their FF7 existence. A new memory also reveals one of many moments Fred teh Uber Blade makes a sexual innuendo.
page 16 - past-Writers reflect on whether there are powers writing for them, too much craziness results in focus back on story
page 16/"75" - past-heroes use cheats, present-heroes surmise Losien's powers are just cheats left on, an opera, and a new memory of Al and Apple (likely NeS2 page 25)
page 16? - past-heroes finally gain Holy Hand Remote and escape back to the Arena
page 16 - past-heroes return to see Arena rented out by PPV for JGG vs Godzilla fight, Al tweaks memory to include ducks
page 17 - a one-post thread killer involving everyone living happily ever after with facelifts
page 18 - past-phantom master asks and then joins in NeS antics
page 18 - past-Geb's apparent lack of ability to lead compared to Maybe shows up in epic fight
"1997" - past-Highemp and Alole have a moment. 1997 may refer to a year in this case.
page 17 - past-Darkside is shown in an unflattering light in the epic battle
page 18 - past-heroes have a heroic moment, with Losien tweaking memory to make herself look like the MVP-type
page 19 - past-heroes investigate their guns in Forbidden Fortress of Forbiddenness and TLTE is introduced
page 20/(3) - J-Bob is introduced, and forgotten memories arise regarding J-Bob and TLTE
page 21 - past-heroes fight Spooky Taco, and past-Otter acts like a nutjob
page 21 - past-Losien and TLTE first meet

Page 37! Note, I don't always append with "past-" mostly out of laziness.

(daycare) - new/forgotten memories of a bunch of past-heroes and such in daycare
(high school) - same as above, but in high school
(high school)(IN SPACE) - continuation of above, and Highemp & Soriel's adventures IN SPACE
(IN SPACE) - more adventures IN SPACE
(IN SPACE) - same as above
(time-traveling) - various made-up memories from Otter recounting time-traveling to stop TLTE, with Otter looking good
(high school) - tied into above, though apparently happened
page 21 - past-Otter gets beat up in prison, and past-Geb gets interrogated by TLTE
(IN SPACE) - I think you all know
page 22 - past-Michael and Losien fight TLTE
page 23 - unflattering moments of past-Otter
(high school/IN SPACE) - a moment of past-Losien in sports, and more Highemp & Soriel fun
page 24 - a 'happy' moment of past-heroes On Ice, which is then ruined
page 25 - past-Otter helps and later breaks into a hospital, the memories 'altered' by future killer robot toasters
page 26/27 - clapping in belief makes the NeS live, and past-Geb has a moment with Losien
page 28 - past-Losien tricks a bomb into miscounting while dealing with being hit on by the pizza delivery guy
page 29 - past-TLTE talks to Jorbo about his new role as hero and consideration to be a villain again
page 30 - a moment with several past-heroes embarking on submarine adventure (Galv, Otter, Ante, Sem, Krig, etc.)
page 31 - parody of LotR: FotR in Moria with various past-heroes
page 32 - past-NeS heroes recall how they got sent to Australia after corrupt trial verdict influenced by Darkside, some Writer moments
page 33 - random past-B-list heroes encounter Shadowlord's sexytime-with-women TV show
page 34 - Absolver and Pate fight in their free-fall descent into Hell
page 35 - past-Geb tricks the other heroes to step through the Thingy into their new P&C-style adventure

Page 38 and 39 of NeS2!

page 36 -lackey talks to mysterious new villain (TFFE or TVLTE), Krig and Haggis deal with killer mattresses
page 37 - past-Michael and Tracer have a moment
page 38 - more moments between past-Michael and Tracer
page 39 - unflattering moments of past-Michael, TVLTE reflects on adversary with him, more fun with past-Krig and Haggis
page 39? - mention of a Christmas special
page 39? - time-traveling Ford and Sem stop Beard Not Named Hank
pages 38-41 - TVLTE targets Tracer for an attack, past-Geb tries to formulate a plan with others, a tiger chases past-Geb to his goal, college-Ford and Haggis meet maeve
page 41? - past-Krig and Viking crew attack Statue of Liberty
page 42 - past-Gettle is in Keyboarding class with Gates in disguise, Spasm does his Time Travel stuff
page 42 - college-Geb and others get stucked into a plot-hole
(IN SPACE) - more Soriel and Highemp adventures
page 42 - a moment with maeve and Ford
"page 43" - an interpretation of past-NeS heroes confronting TLTE from the NeS radio project
150 BC - implied ancestors of Losien, Geb, Michael, and J-Bob doing stuff
IN SPACE - guess
page 43 - Jim Seven and Rob go go-karting
page 44 - Ares purchases Sugar Dumpling
page 45 - college-Ford and Maeve catch up to the 'present' (page 45)
page 46 - a parody of "Summer of '69" about writers not writing anymore
page 88 (38 of NeSquared) - a BUMP of Phil the UGO Driver and TLTE the Boromir Rip-off
page 47(?) - Jim puts a hit on Darkside, villains trick heroes with evil pie, and a flashback-ception
page 48 - Nick is revealed to be Ares' son
page 49 - the "history" of the Golden Age of NeS has its note of downfall smudged by a coffee stain

Suggestions for page 50 and ideas for resolving the story-arc will be mentioned in the post below. Feel free to post your own thoughts in the meantime.

Of course, our lost spirit can be found in the mystery box!

Alright, I just made a post with a memory from page 49 of the original NeS thread. I intend to post again with my suggested thoughts soon, and if I don't have the time or should anyone wish to just bolt ahead, just know that page 50 is ripe with memories that could serve to reflect our characters and that the memories we've reflected upon can easily be looked over in the previous workshop posts. Also, the next post should be the first post of a new page in NeSquared, so whoever makes the next post should include an updated summary please.

As a note, if other writers don't want to have the group confronting Michael /quite/ yet, the person they're about to chase could be the Illusionist.

For starters, I'll highlight some potentially good memories from page 50, of which we can go with one or all or some mix.

TLTE confronts Bill Gates and TFFE - mostly a potential because of the first line, suggesting TLTE has been forgotten before.
The EeP explains the NeS and Geb's role in it to TLTE - it involves TLTE, the EeP, and perhaps suggesting the spirit of NeS
Future Darkside is trapped in the Darkfoil by Ante - currently in TLTE's posession, a reminder of Ante's role and relation to Thand
Tracer has a moment - mostly because I feel bad for bringing Tracer's character back and not doing more with him
Pre-battle with the EeP - mostly for Phil the UGO driver apparently dying, and he was mentioned a few pages ago. Hmm...
Maeve, MZZT, and others make way to the Arena - there may be a better post, and this seems as good as any to highlight Maeve and MZZT. Just be sure to block out Dr. Dor, as he's the one character who's definitively been 'erased' by Tsolo.
Endgame post - the mammoth final post of the original NeS. Since it's so huge, I'll mention some specifics from it:

• Otter battles TLTE's friend, Absolver, with Otter is Under EeP's control
• MZZT fights Jim Seven's half brother, Kyle Katarn 7, with Kyle also under EeP's control
• Maeve's apparent friendship with MZZT continues to be highlighted
• Losien fights Maeve, with Losien under EeP's control
• Losien: "The pie? The pie is not evil, Maeve -- the pie let me see clearly for the first time! It let me see what losers those "Heroes" were! They treated me like I was nothing! They played with my emotions! No, Maeve, the pie is not evil -- it is freedom! Freedom to do whatever I feel like! Freedom to leave you pathetic do-gooders and side with the real power in this world!"
• Losien: "You think you can just come in and woo everybody, don't you? I'm not fooled by you. You want to take my place!"
• "Insert TLTE's scene with Evil Losien HERE!"
• "Insert brief segment with TLTE noticing what TFFE is doing, dealing with Losien or whatever, and joining the battle with TFFE again."
• End speech

Now to ramble on with thoughts with some of our characters:

Losien
Overall, she's evolved from an uncertain main character hero, to growing into her role and asserting her own thoughts which culminated in defeating Tsolo, to becoming an outright card-carrying villain triggered when Soriel pointed out her questionable actions, which she then embraced. Given particularly the quotes from her above, of which she said in truth (as Plot just plays out what's logical), it's easy enough to say that, in her attempt to be a stronger main character, she's struggling with perhaps the core of her character - that she feels she's not respected. If she tries for humility and kindness, she's walked all over, and she feels she's only been able to build 'real' confidence through more evil actions. She's likely considered herself 'ugly' all this time because she feels that, like her love TLTE, her true self is to be evil. I have no idea what she might do from that. She may figure it out and start some action that defines her heroic side stronger, or she might stay the course and start influencing TLTE to be evil again, or any other number of things. She's obviously got some forgotten battle with TLTE - her 'damsel in distress' (if that still applies), and there's still likely lots of awkwardness with him and Michael. Her relation with Amal is likely still awkward, especially now that he's holding the 'main character mantle' in some small way. Her relation with Maeve should be very awkward too, considering their actions over the story-arc and from the last battle. She still wants some influence over Apple's child, likely out of principle at this point. If reminded of her brother, she'll likely feel some level of shame. While officially, her overall goal is likely 'success in a mission' (whether heroic or villainous), her real goal is likely to earn real respect, of which she already had from the people who matter most to her - Geb and TLTE.

The Last True Evil
While we've done our best to keep him on the down-low for this story-arc so as to not have his character overwhelm everyone else's, even his inactions throughout the story-arc should speak a lot. His inner battle pretty much spells out that he's resisting action in attempt to defy his true nature and to support his love, and having been forcibly forgotten might not be new territory with him. The battle with Losien on page 50 that wasn't written out is likely very significant. TLTE is also likely very conflicted in that his love seems to be embracing what he's defied to be with her - evil. Michael, of course, will stir old issues, and it may have to come to TLTE and Michael fighting Losien. There's been little interaction with TLTE and Amal lately, which may speak to their current relationship (Amal's affection for Losien may be making things awkward). He currently has an arsenal of strange weapons, such as the Darkfoil, Mayaal's tears, and the hyper-time modulator, any one or all of which may come into play still, and his lack of Potential may also continue to play its part.

Michael
I tried to play up that he's essentially a personification of his drive which has made him the ideal Avatar of Loss, someone who is essentially a ghost with 'unfinished business' (as Forgotten tend to be). He may very well have played in the battle between Losien and TLTE on page 50 - an action which may have propelled him as a Forgotten character in the first place. Obviously has issues with Losien and TLTE, likely thinks of the others as unimportant extras, which isn't likely to put Darkside or the Illusionist on his good side, though I suspect the Illusionist will be faithful to him regardless for some unknown reason.

Amal
Unfortunately, not too much has gone on with him, though he has developed into a more wizened person, if still making some rather 'big mistakes' such as professing his love to Losien. Arguably not ready for the main character mantle, he still technically carries it at this point out of a sense of duty and what's right. As from his start, Amal is likely best left as a tie and reflection for Losien and TLTE, their own failings likely to grow in him.

Al Ciao
No longer ruler of Hell (I think), the whole deal set at the beginning of the story-arc is now moot regarding souls and stopping (the now defunct) Knowsoul. Since then, I believe the 'major' thing for Al is trying to be the father of both Apple's child and Lady Lightside (Darkside)'s baby. I really have no idea where that can go, and apart from that, I presume he'll just chime in to help his friends where he can. I think Al can easily empathize with Losien's lacking of respect, which is probably lost on her to the tragedy of Al. The one person Al is likely bonding moreso with the most from this story-arc is Soriel, due to their happy memories of adventuring, though even that likely has a hint of regret for Al. Al, moreso than the others, likely has the most regrets, which Michael may be able to exploit at some point - a dead Potential will do that to a man.

Rachel
She's been quiet lately, and that's probably because her desire to knock Losien down has been fulfilled in Losien 'showing her true colors' so to speak. As always these days, she's mostly just interested to make sure things don't seem to get out of hand in the "NeS is ending" scale, so she'll likely be one of the few to try and keep the heroes on track, should it seem that the NeS is about to end. She likely has little need to hinder the heroes at this point, as they're already in a fairly hard predicament with Losien being evil. She'll likely be mad at any successful actions TLTE might take to help Losien recover to goodness (reflecting her own complicated relations with Geb). Her transformation is mostly in regards to her continued hate towards Losien.

Soriel
Acting as mostly the impartial observer, his general transformation over the story-arc has been from no-nonsense physical fighter to no-nonsense 'meta-physical' fighter of sorts, though for the most part, he's been trying to learn his new battleground and feeling things out. His jealousy of Thand's mastery over such a domain likely became lost when Thand stepped out of the group. Likely feels some camaraderie with Al, and would likely resist Michael's attempt at manipulation the most out of the recently Forgotten.

Fred and Carlotta
I got nothing except they should still have screen time.

The Otter
While diligently serving as comedic relief, the Otter had been one of the Forgotten not too long ago along, and revisiting memories has only made him realize how pitiful he can be in certain ways. Could likely be manipulated by Michael. Given his ability for a special sort of judgment of a situation, he might be afraid of what Losien is becoming and what bad things he did on page 50, and may fall back on his drinking to 'enjoy the ride' so to speak.

Maeve
She's rather different in this story-arc in some ways than how she acted in the original NeS thread, which may be caused by having been Forgotten. She'll definitely have a complex relationship with Losien once memories on page 50 surface if she doesn't already have one. She may have her own regrets or the like that Michael may exploit.

Apple
While Soriel tries to be an outsider, I think Apple, for all intents, IS the outsider, and her remaining role in the story likely continues with that. Per Britt's plans with her, I presume her tale will wrap up when she gives birth to herself, and given the whole "Losien vs. Al as father of her child" stick, I imagine the two of them in particular have the most impact on her in some fashion.

Darkside
Starting as one half of Knowsoul at the start, only to be torn apart and 'enslaved' by Michael, Darkside has likely been simply trying to bide time until he (she) can feast on more souls. Might try to backstab Michael still, and may have some grander plan in giving birth to Al's child (perhaps consuming it will give Darkside some unique power? Maybe Darkside's just desperate for a soul. Who knows?)

Tsolo
Dead. Had his run. His mantle now in the much better hands of Michael. Michael likely kept him around simply for him to die and potentially gain his power.

The Illusionist
Comic henchmen who may throw in a wrench or two still. Out of the group, likely has particular familiarity with Rachel, Al, and Michael. Beyond that? Got me.

Master Thand
I specifically wrote him out of the group after a point because he was throwing off the group relations too much. However, I think he still has a strong investment in the events of the current story-arc with Memory Lane, and feel he should have some role yet before or at the end of it (though perhaps Knowsoul's dissolvement and Tsolo's destruction were enough), likely as another hidden aside to Amal if I had to guess. As for his future, I thought I had an idea for his 'final actions' in NeSquared overall, and I think I need to re-evaluate those ideas. I still firmly believe he should serve as the "wise antagonist" who poses a special conflict with the main characters because he is right.

Antestarr
His 'bit for this storyarc I think should resolve in Evil Geb informing Ante that Nyneve's act of turning him into a NeSferatu was a request from Thand, so that Antestarr can best live on to protect the interests of the NeS, potentially as a Protector of the Plotfractal. He also may teter on the edge of becoming Forgotten with his NeSferatu status holding him back. Whatever Ante does or doesn't do next is likely good material for a future story-arc, since this story-arc is more or less resolving his current 'drive' to protect the NeS via Young and his inventions (Darkfoil, etc.)

Evil Geb
After his buddy-buddy time with Antestarr (a friendship of old plus a friendship as antiheroes of sorts), I presume Evil Geb's primary action will be to protect Young and Chance from the EeP. He may do this at the end of this story-arc or the beginning of the next.

Young
Having recently given birth, unless anyone objects, I feel she's run her course at this point, and logically, Evil Geb would do everything he can to protect them. I presume he'd do so by sending the two of them to another 'story thread' to return when things are safe. Having Young and Chance story-hop may give some ammunition to shape their experiences for whenever it may be fitting for them to return, and Chance was always something I figured would be a long-term element, so to speak. The alternative is to leave them for Evil Geb to try and protect, though I think they would be easy targets for the EeP. In any case, her initial roles to 1) protect the NeS characters from the Writers and 2) stop Tsolo both seem to be either unnecessary or failings of sorts.

Ever-ending Plot (EeP)
I'd like to continue building up the EeP's threatening presence for it to actively serve for a climax to NeSquared, which if we're holding to the 50 page format, is approaching soon (another couple story-arcs about probably). At least one mention of the EeP in the memories should cue the unnoticed (save Evil Geb for now) nasty substance continuing to infect the NeS.

MZZT
He gets a lot of screen time in the memories on page 50, and since he's got some function in the current story-arc, it may be nice to have him tied in a bit. Any small touch of MZZT's development could be cool, though I'm hard pressed to think of any potential ideas.

Gebohq
No longer needing to fulfill his pact to stop Knowsoul, and having accepted a job as a teacher of law, Geb's transformation in this story-arc is mostly that of trying to find a new direction for his life, as that of professional hero seems to have played its course. Were he in Memory Lane, he'd have a lot of nostalgia and regret to shift through -- the story-arc was initially intended to explore those things, so he dodged a bullet on that one I suppose. A dead Potential will likely do that to a person. Still, page 50 seems to suggest he's still tied significantly to the spirit of the NeS, or at least was, and thus may play an indirect role in the wrap-up for the Memory Lane story.

With that, I only have to explore potential options for the whole "lost spirit of the NeS" deal. Here's some ideas.

1) The group finds the lost spirit of the NeS. It's a physical personification, not unlike Erik that acted as the avatar of the NeS, hiding in Memory Lane. The heroes are able to defend it and help it find its way, or they fail to defend it, and sets off catastrophic events that will result in the end of NeSquared -- something to be determined as the situation seems fit.

2) The group doesn't find the lost spirit of the NeS because it never really existed as something to be found. Everyone believed it existed because it felt like there needed an explanation for why the NeS seems to be different from how they remembered it, and perhaps discover that things change in time, or that things weren't really that differnet. The group now moves on, shaped by the things they remembered.

3) The group discovers that the lost spirit of the NeS is actually Geb, reflecting his recent choices. The group may confront this as they actually begin to interact with the memory of Geb at the end of page 50 (to tie in with how the memories at times seem to realize their presence). See #1 for followups on that.

4) The group discovers that the lost spirit is actually the will of the writers themselves, and that they had to take this journey to help the writers recall why they like writing for the NeS in the first place. Pretty much the ending to The Neverending Story movie in that regard.

5) The group discovers that the lost spirit is something that ties in well with many of the memories mentioned, or something super-cool that I've not thought.

Regardless of how the lost spirit part is played out, it's much more important that the actions and relations of our characters play out as they should, and let things go from there. I'm sure the powerhouses that are Britt and Al the writers can figure out some more awesome stuff, and can also figure out the remaining story-arcs, of which I'll of course help add when I feel I can. I hope the above helps anyone tackling the Memory Lane stuff.

Re: Britt's latest series of posts.

BRILLIANT! Absolutely, bloody brilliant. Hilarious. Great stuff. Best line ever: "No, the oven is called Gladys"

Beautiful stuff, Britt!

As you might already know, it'll be a bit before I can seriously post again (couple weeks) as I'm moving. Pretty short-distance move, and not too much stuff to move, just working around work shifts and whatnot.

Keep writing, dudes. I will return!

Good to hear! The NeS misses you! Can't you hear it caaaalllllllling? xD

First off, I'm glad you both haven't been waiting on me. I've been a chump with posting and with trying to settle into my new place. Al Ciao also told me that Britt knows what he wants to do with Michael/Knowsoul, but wants to give us a chance to work on the fightin' bits if we want.
The latest string of posts seem to vaguely tie in with Britt's hints that the memories would interact in some fashion early on in the storyarc [probably not related though]. Right now, I have no idea what to do with Knowsoul. I don't even understand how he's existing, with Tsolo presumed destroyed and Darkside as 'Lady Lightside' - I presume it's some ruse, and it's thrown me in for a loop. Establishing the heart of NeS as its characters is sensible, and I feel it needs a bit more tightening. Unfortunately, my idea at this point would only really work after the storyarc is 'resolved' as noted below.

With the heart of the NeS being found in the end-post on page 50 as all of the story's characters, I would think more specifically, the journey of this story-arc would find its soul in the seemingly Twice-Forgotten moment with Evil Losien and TLTE, where we learn Michael had showed up, and that, for one reason or another, Michael's heart is broken on that day (maybe Losien struggled between TLTE and Michael, and Michael knew she really loves TLTE more, or maybe in her villainous streak of trying to earn respect, Michael had to team up with TLTE and make some 'sacrifice' to stop her) -- and that he's come back because he can't ever forget the moment no matter how hard he tries or something along those lines.

Since the focus is currently on Knowsoul, though, that sort of moment really only makes sense as a sort of resolution now, instead of a climax. Also, I just realized that this memory-present clash makes even more sense since TFFE had been involved on page 50, and his stick was "white plot-holes" (where, instead of a lack of plot, there was an infinity of plots), so it'd make sense that one of those 'plots' involves the future colliding in, which Michael may have helped TLTE by Twice-Forgetting most of the white plot hole effects. /shrug/ Just throwing it out there. I'm also not sure if Knowsoul existing then makes Geb's hell-bargain valid again or not [while we get to do whatever, I do like to attempt to not be arbitrary when I can help it].

Any other thoughts I had have already been made in my earlier workshop post. I'm hoping to make an actual post of some sort this week, so I'll see what I can do about some epic battles with Knowsoul.

I'm going to have to confess that I got stumped as to how to do any decent fight scene with Knowsoul without saying he's an impostor or treading other contradictory ground in one fashion or another. However, don't take this to mean I'm trying to write Losien off! There are two very likely things that could happen that I can figure off the bat:

1) Someone else sacrifices themselves to save her and the story. Apple and Michael are both logical choices.

2) Losien reveals it's a ruse, from having her 'leet hacks' on, and proceeds to act on from there.

And, of course, a hundred other things could be the case too. Sorry for not having much to go on -- I was sort of thrown in for a loop when Knowsoul apparently came back, as you can gather what I had in mind from my previous workshop post. Also, I still blame my move which is becoming less and less recent, hah. We'll see how long I feel I can make that excuse justifiable.

I hope you guys were happy with that? Took me ALLLLLLLLL night to do it!!

I left it wide-open at the end for possible story arcs to follow.

a) Losien could be trapped there in this black page world. Or she could simply return with the Main Character trait.

b) TLTE was slow to return, maybe he's the one who's stuck on Memory Lane unable to return and everyone can go rescue him instead?

c) Rachel can now meet up with her family and see where that sub-plot goes? I actually would like to have some heroes visit this Chinese palace in the sky.

d) London plot still ongoing, or will they all settle down now?

e) Apple's main feature is over but now she's got serious daddy issues... and thinking about it does this make TLTE a kind of step-father to Apple? And Amal a weird kind of brother-like figure?

f) Couchman vs Emperor Pi for Iriana.

Oh! I was also wondering about NeS Shattered. I was actually thinking it might be interesting to give it a bit of a revive? If Losien is stuck at the end of the last story maybe she slips into shattered too and we can do stuff over there? Just a thought. I missed out on the shattered stuff last time so it'd be an interesting experience for me.

Great stuff, Britt - I'm glad you were able to wrap up so many things with this story-arc.

As for Losien, I'm all for the first part of "a)" if some personal quest dawns on me, perhaps working with what you suggested in part for "b)", though for now, my intent is to simply post an 'epilogue' with Losien discovering the 'twice-forgotten passages' from page 50 that Michael had kept that more or less line up with my previous ideas (I'll try to post that soon). After that, my only planned focus is to write where the wind takes me with a focus on the character ideas from the Chinese students contest (far overdue!), especially the one we decided as the winner.

"c)" sounds fine to me, and seems easy enough to blend in with at least one of those characters.

I personally would vote for having "d)" settle, and you and Al were the primary people driving that one, so I'll leave that to you two I think unless that need be.

I'm interested to see how Apple continues as noted in "e)" and as with "f)" - that sounds like something Tracer might want to tackle?

As for NeShattered, Britt, I think it would be best to save that for the epic thread climax near/at page 50 of NeSquared, as it's been fairly set up that the EeP is infecting the NeS and the heart of the infection is in NeShattered. So at least one more story-arc before we delve into that, please -- the wait will make for better timing.

Okaies, I'll leave Losien as missing until your post then I suppose! :). I think Al, if he's around, ought to be the one to make the very final moments of the London stuff - at least as far as Mr Nine and Seraphim are concerned.

Actually, and I keep forgetting to mention this, I was considering the possibility of having two 'NeS teams'. Much in the way we just had (and often have) only more... official. So they choose to split into two groups. I'm pretty sure Antestarr suggested this a while ago already, at least in character. Losien would obviously lead one and the other, I was thinking Amal. This would allow us to better develop Amal and we ought to choose characters for each group that would either compliment each other or, at least, help mould Amal more interestingly. I would also suggest we officially recognise characters as staying at home to help Young and her baby, and whatever else goes on there. It's a bit daft to have them show up later as Forgotten characters if we just leave them in the HHH. Just now of the Main Characters we have 29-21 (I included Tracer and Mecha Lou) - it'd be a bit crazy to take ALL of them with us, especially if new or other characters are going to join up.

Rachel Pi, Krig the Viking, Emperor Pi, MZZT, Couchman, Mecha Lou, Iiana Emp, Amal, Evil G, Gebohq, The Otter, Antestarr, Subaru, Losien, TLTE, Apple, Maeve, Al Ciao, Lady Lightside, Tracer.

So, for my ideas;

Team A (Amal): Amal, Evil G/Gebohq, The Otter, Antestarr, Subaru, Soriel

Team L (Losien): Losien, TLTE, Apple, Maeve, Al Ciao, (Lady Lightside), Tracer

At Home: MZZT, Krig the Viking, Gebohq/Evil G.

I believe that we should only take one Gebohq. Whilst my personal preference would be Evil G because he is essentially Gebohq-evolved, it might be more natural for him to stay behind with Young and Chance. If Gebohq comes instead, however, he may, once again, over-shadow Amal and not allow us to develop him. Now if we're not too serious about making Amal more of a character (and not the eventual main character) then we could make Gebohq the leader of Team A (Team G or whatever). I also separated Amal from TLTE, again to give him more chance to grow. I also chose some of the more... darker characters to accompany his group which should allow us to play out an inner conflict for him - the TLTEness of his own.

Rachel and Emperor Pi would join whichever group went to China. I imagine this to be Amal's group, as it might be a higher priority for Losien's group to deal with Lady LightSide situation (and probably go after Mia too).

I have no idea what is to be done with Couchman or Iriana. I think Couchman was meant to be a temporary fun side-plot but I don't want to steal anyone's thunder if he's meant to be main cast. Iriana also, though I actually like having such a pompous, snooty Princess around.

I think Mecha Lou's time is almost at an end as her mission to get Al Ciao a body is over. She's a character I'd like to bring back every now and again but I wouldn't introduce her to the main cast unless I removed Soriel or Apple. I would like to eventually have Soriel move on, at least towards his goal of replacing Thand, and I think there's more to be done with Apple so Lou gets side-lined for now.

I want to leave Krig and MZZT behind (and one Geb) because... well someone has to be left behind. There's never much character development to be done with Krig and while I do like MZZT I don't think he's all that necessary.

I also think The Otter may be considered for leaving behind (especially if Rachel joins Amal's group, making up the numbers). I think Tracer wanted to make Otter a lawyer with Couchman's group, which could be a convenient side-plot for the Couchman thing (and might also be where Gebohq goes if he stays behind ... and Krig and MZZT come to think about it). Iriana could go with them too, or she could go to China depending on choices made - though I imagine the Emperor's wives will be going back to China now too...

I think I covered everything, what do you think?

I think if you want to do something you should just go write it. I will give you my opinion, but I will also say that my opinion counts for nothing until I start writing again.

Interestingly, my thoughts on NeS haven't changed much since the beginning of this workshop thread. I think there are too many characters, although given the free-form nature of the story and the fact that writers come and go this is no surprise (and this is something the NeS writers were struggling with even before I joined up).

I'm going to be honest, the only characters I really like are the classic ones, and I'm not really interested in "character development" and as an amateur hack writer, I`m not even sure what that means. I see NeS more like the Simpsons, Futurama, or even the Dilbert comic strip: I would rather have a cast of unique and interesting characters to write for than have them develop and grow. Also I`m not interested in debating whether or not there is character development on the Simpsons, but I think you get my point. :p

Here comes my opinion! Remember that it doesn`t count.

Krig: Probably my favourite current character. Really unique, fun to write for/you can put him in any situation, easy to make jokes with.
Gebohq: Geb is a little more difficult to write for because real Geb has tried to do different things with him (mopey teenager Geb and in love Geb are two examples that come to mind). However, still one of the best NeS characters. I like him the most as a slightly incompetent hapless guy with a good heart.
Sran: Captain Sran was HILARIOUS. A bit too much like Zapp Branagan but still so easy to write jokes for, which is the most important thing IMO.
MaybeChild: I liked MaybeChild as the strong, intelligent woman surrounded by idiots. The straight character.
The Otter: I love Otter. The really stupid guy who misunderstands everything with hilarious consequences.
TLTE: TLTE is awesome. As the ultimate villain, his skill and guile at doing evil is a great contrast to Geb's general ineptitude. Like Krig, he has a very well-defined personality. Also regarding TLTE I should add that to me he represents the only successful character growth in NeS, and his love thing with Losien and good guy/bad guy wavering is really interesting and fun to read/write.
Losien: She's really good as the Geb's sister/TLTE's love interest supporting character.

Those are the best characters in NeS. Here are the ones that I think are kind of meh:

CrisB: I like CrisB, but there are only so many times his restaurant can be blown up before it gets old. He was fun as a kind of a pathetic wannabe-hero, and I briefly attempted to make his constant rejection by the other heroes motivation to turn evil but then went on one of my many hiatuses and so the story never got written.
Couchman: I had intended Couchman to be a main member of the cast but then I took one of my aforementioned breaks from writing. I'm not sure what I want him to be...kind of a highly-educated, know it all guy, but not someone super-smart. Just a guy who always seems to know about things. Quite cultured, but sort of just not really all there. Like his mind works in an unconventional way so he does seemingly bizarre things that seem perfectly logical to him (maybe a bit like Cosmo Kramer in this respect).
MZZT/Semievil/Antestarr: These three have always been kind of generic to me. I'd be reluctant to write them out of the story because they've hung around for such a long time but I find them harder to write for as their personalities are less distinct and I often just use them as filler characters.

Barring the return of Janitor Bob the hero, everyone else I find difficult to write for/indistinct/uninteresting. Hopefully nobody is offended...it's just that as writers come and go new characters get added, often without thought as to how they would function in the developing narrative. Somebody would just show up and introduce one or more new characters and they would have to have various attributes created on the spot. These characters always seemed very one-dimensional and dull to me because we hadn't met them yet - they had naturally developed over the course of the story. I realize that this is required to some degree given the nature of NeS (if nobody ever participated, it would be a one-man story), but it's about striking the balance I guess. That includes "my" Tracer character by the way, who incidentally I kind of regret creating.

This doesn't mean I want NeS to only be about the characters I like: often as characters are incorporated into the story they become more interesting and I start liking them. My other hope for NeS is that we would eventually return to a more "realistic" world...this heaven vs. hell thing is a bit too out there for my taste.

Anyway those are my thoughts for today.

Also I left out a ton of characters but I didn't feel like going over them all...I might add in more character thoughts later.

I just thought of something else, I think I'd like to talk about the characters who have some as-yet untapped potential. (unless I've forgotten something and we already wrote about this stuff :))

Qhobeg: I like the idea of a reverse-geb person, even though he's been in the story for such a long time I feel like we haven't fully explored the idea of a guy who is Geb's exact opposite. Also I think it's hilarious that his name is even more unpronouncable than regular Gebohq.
Evil Geb/Shattered Geb: I forget if these are seperate characters, and I know we wrote about them a lot but I still feel the whole "Geb's doppleganger" thing has a lot of untapped humor. Like that episode of The Simpsons where Homer says "if I know me, I won't like this!" and then kicks his German imposter in the nuts. Unless of course Evil Geb is dead or something.
Irania: This was initially a pretty forgettable character for me, but I was enjoying the snooty mcsnoot princess thing. I love how Al wrote her as simultaneously scowling at Geb and smiling at Couchman.

Possibly more to come!

Hahaha, entertainingly enough there are so many things I disagree with you on, Tracer!



Okay, I agree with you on that actually. Having said that sometimes I write stuff that might leave someone feeling a bit raw - see the part where I just removed KnowSoul earlier in this arc. So sometimes, with big choices, I like to see what others think would be good.



Character development is basically exploring new facets of a character. Sometimes this is just learning more about them as they are, sometimes it's them acquiring something new to their character. Something like Star Trek does this in abundance (too much usually) as they'll have entire episodes dedicated to developing a single character in some way. The BEST plots are character developing plots, where the entire story is shaped because of a character - rather than a forced plot such as 'you, random guy, go find this thing because no reason'.

I think you probably see the NeS in this way possibly because, as you say, you have breaks from writing and jump back in. So to you, you're still minded towards the classic stuff and characters. It would also seem like Dilbert in that it's a periodical thing I guess? For me, and I'm certain for Geb, it's a long running thing and to keep characters exactly the same with no development renders them incredibly stale. Imagine something like Battlestar Galactica, or even Downton Abbey, and think of how much the characters had developed and had grown by the end of the show. That's more how I view things around here. New characters bring fresh perspective, not just on the story but on pre-existing characters. Like my Apple character is now the daughter of Losien - that's a whole new dimension to the Losien character.


You really are a 'NeS traditionalist', aren't you?

Krig - Likewise, I love Krig to bits and I was the one that brought him back into the story because I enjoy him so much. However I've come to realise that the easy jokes get a bit repetitive. There's only so many times I can laugh at him trying to eat something he shouldn't. I used his former Viking comrades to keep things interesting for him, and his father thing I also included to see where that'd go. But on the whole I'm out of ideas for him and he'd be a bit of a 'hanger-on'.

Gebohq - I was always happy with Gebohq as a character and happy with him as the main character. Then somewhere down the line, during a time I was also present, Geb stopped being main character and Losien is instead. As you point out Geb is a strong character with so much behind him and he's easily likeable and instantly recognisable - which makes Losien (as you actually point out in a minute) a support character, even though she's supposed to be the main character. I arranged for Geb to be removed so that Losien can shine better and become the main character, which I honestly believe happened! We went from constantly forgetting her existence to her ruling the show! I'd be happy for Geb to come back as leader of one group, but I think it'd be best to stick to a single Geb. So Gebohq, or Evil G (who is Evil Geb/Gebiyl). I have a preference for Evil G because he's basically Gebohq +.

Sran - That is an incredibly good point, I forget he/she was involved! I also love Sran and find him stupidly entertaining. I also brought him back into the story (he's currently trapped in Voodoo Snowflake's body) but I didn't get to do much with him other than have him arrrive in London's war.

The Otter - Again we have similar tastes on classic characters at least. I also love Otter and enjoy having him around. He's another I brought back during this story arc. But once again after writing for him during this arc I realised that the jokes were running dry and getting repetitive. I think maybe the lawyer thing would add something new and interesting to him, otherwise the most interesting thing for him would be to bring Maybe Child back and resolve whatever differences are between them (they were dating last time they were both in the story).

Maybe Child - I actually like Maybe in some ways. She's the most easily annoyed of all women in the NeS and often acts like a nagging mother to everyone, which can be interesting all by itself. Buuuuut I think she's often poorly written and becomes a kind of male-centric idea of what a strong woman is (ie a nagging mother) rather than being interesting as a character. Now I believe there are more interesting characters to be had, including women.

TLTE - I have enjoyed a lot to do with TLTE after reading all of the NeS, however I find he has some "greater story" at stake. And while that's usually a good thing for me, it seems to be one that only his writer knows and everyone else is unsure about treading on toes. Amal has long been the bane of my NeS existence because he's just a crutch for TLTE, which makes Amal dull and dead weight. But somewhere it was decided he's important and has to stick around and possibly become the main character. Thus my suggestions earlier. I'd like to mostly see TLTE's reaction to Apple essentially being his 'step-daughter' but also to the previous story point of Amal's relationship to Losien during TLTE's period of being forgotten. Otherwise I often feel 'lumbered' with TLTE rather than feeling gifted with it. With Losien better developed I think maybe we can balance the TLTE-effect on the story and he'll be enjoyable for me again.

Losien - Your view of Losien is drastically outdated and exactly my problem when I first returned to find she was the new main character. Losien was long established as a support character for Geb and TLTE - nothing more. However now she's the main character and needs to be more than just support. I think through our efforts during this story arc, removing Geb and making TLTE the damsel - along with my personal drive - we finally made Losien so much more than a support role. Unfortunately anyone that disappears and returns will probably miss all that and still think of her as she was :gonk:. I think I was also not comfortable with her in this role, much like I dislike Amal, but now I LOVE Losien as the main character. She has developed so, so much and I've enjoyed every minute of it. In some ways she's much better even than Gebohq, probably because we were able to develop her much more easily.



Cris B - I actually think Cris B is rather a running gag now. He's not a hero or a main character but he, or at least his Chikin' Shacks, appear every so often in places to afford a compliment of that gag. I personally don't mind him or the gag, it's funny and so far doesn't feel like it's been repeated too much. Each to their own on this I think.

Couchman - I have liked the Couchman character thus far. I think the only real problem with him is, as in your own words, he's new and undeveloped. He needs time to grow. With his desires upon Iriana, especially when that's in conflict with another (though minor) character ought to bring some interest to him. I enjoyed writing for him when I did, and I like reading your earlier parts. I do think it might have been a mistake to introduce him into his own, tiny sub-plot with characters that were essentially pushed to the bottom of the importance pile if you wanted him to be considered a main character straight at the beginning. I'm an example of the result in that I assumed he was a one-shot character for some entertaining sub-plot. Still, the cat's out of the bag now and I think we should consider him to be a main character and bring him to the fold!

MZZT/Semievil/Antestarr - While I wouldn't go so far as to say these three in particular are too much alike I do feel they are characters that can rest, at least for a while. Antestarr iss the only one of the three I would consider the most important and with his recent changes (we made him NeSferatu) I think he's got a lot to offer in the 'new and interesting things' department. I think he's also the second or third oldest running character still in the main cast (the top three being Geb, Otter and Antestarr). After reading the entire NeS I have actually found Antestarr is probably the character who has undergone the most character development (TLTE has had plenty though) and this recent change is probably one of the grandest yet.



I honestly believe that the reason you feel this way is you're probably *too* attached to the classic characters ;). You haven't given the newbies much of a chance. In all honestly I think some of the newer characters have undergone much character development, more diverse narrative roles and have much greater depth than any of the classic characters who are often one-dimensional gag reels with little change. My own Soriel has been around for two story arcs and has gone from blood-thirsty maniac with a sex-obsessed talking sword to being a Thand wannabe with an eye to stealing his position. Rachel went from being nothing but Geb's love interesting to being a whole entity and character with a deep personality and is about to have her past explored. When I introduced Apple I had a VERY clear idea of how she would function in the developing narrative and what she would become and what would happen - actually a bit *too* much of an idea if you ask me, but that's another story.

I honestly do understand what you mean and I have seen it plenty of times from reading through the NeS and seeing new writers do just what you're saying, but in all honesty the way I view the NeS is to accommodate each other rather than completely stick to what we like. If, for some reason, all of the characters were killed off and an entire cast of newbies came into being I would be upset. But I'd work with it and eventually I'd love those characters too. It takes input from everyone to make the new characters interesting and you have the chance to make them what you like too. When Al introduced Iriana there I absent-mindedly started to give her this snooty princess quality, combined with a kind of unawareness of her surroundings and tea-drinking. Al seems to have loved that and used it too and so it stuck. Before I did that I'm not sure Iriana had much going for her save her father was Highemp. So through combined efforts a new character become more interesting for everyone. I think that might be the better approach to tackling newbies.

Most new writers on the NeS tend to create a character that is somehow themselves. That's not a bad thing, it's a comfort thing for new writers I tend to find, but it does leave them often a little... plain, say? Tracer is actually a good character with an interesting aspect, unfortunately I actually find that aspect to be a little tiring when writing :gonk:. Hence why I ditched it during that final scene when he's riding the Couchmobile. Call me lazy. But honestly you should be happy with how he turned out.



In all honesty I have a taste for both. I really enjoy stupidly over the top stuff, like the Heaven vs Hell thing because I get to write awesome fight scenes (that I know only myself and Al like to read, ahahhaha). But at the same time I generally prefer a story that's about the characters, rather than some otherworldly doom. I actually didn't mind the recent London War thing too much because it actually seemed somewhat character driven initially and it was never a very serious, dramatic event (after all it eventually ended up as a Mario Kart race). But I do get your point.

Believe it or not, I was actually somewhat surprised by you 'traditionalist' views on the NeS. As I said I actually took a big break from NeS writing so that I could read it all and learn more about what I was actually writing and, I don't know if Geb will remember, I always reported my views to Geb as I read through and one thing I did say was how much I enjoyed your writing! One reason for that was how adaptable you seem to be! I would say you're one of the longest-running writers in a way, long stints broken up by long breaks. You always come back for more punishment, haha. I simply expected you to be more in favour of newness as you always came back to find whole new stuff. I guess I just assumed you enjoyed the variety. I know a writer like Semievil would probably HATE the NeS as it is now because it's all completely changed and nothing like it was when he wrote (now he struck me as a true NeS traditionalist ;)).

Sorry if this is overly lengthy by the way, I'm used to debating NeS matters with Geb, we can be kind of thorough. I'm also aware that I often write to cater to the small audience of Geb and Al, during both of my long writing periods on the NeS me and Al seemed to bounce off each others writing naturally. I think Geb finds it hard to keep up at times.

I hope nobody minds, I went ahead and split the groups. I wasn't sure if you had a specific plan for Losien's return but because you left her there I assumed you were leaving that open? Sorry if I jumped the gun!

So I went ahead and split them up;

Losien's Team;

Losien, TLTE, Evil G, The Otter, Apple, Maeve, Voodoo Snowflakes (Sran Cadpill), Tracer, Al Ciao, Lady LightSide, Krig the Viking, Young, Mecha Lou, Master Thand.

Obviously Young, Thand and Mecha Lou will remain behind -- they're not part of the team per se (unless someone wants that of course). They're just present in the house right now. The others are a pick and mix as we like. My preference would be to leave Krig behind and possibly Tracer (he's difficult to keep writing for). I suppose we'll just see where the story arc takes them?

Losien's condition can be played upon as much or as little as writers like. Basically she could have it where her 'dream spirit' separates from her body and wanders about for a while -- possibly while her physical self is still aware and alive or something. Don't know.

Amal's Team;

Amal, Racel, Gebohq, Soriel, Antestarr, Subaru, Iriana, Couchman, Emperor Pi, Concubines, Xiang Long.

Technically, again, Emperor Pi, concubines and the dragon are additional characters not really part of the team but they're present. I hope everyone's okay with the character mix here? I chose Gebohq instead of Evil G for the story that came to mind. I think, although incredibly fantastical as they on a dragon going to a sky palace, the story itself is more down-to-earth or 'real' as Tracer put it. Suppose we'll see where it goes.

Seems like a fine split to me! Just be prepared for when your group makeup completely changes a few posts down the line.

As for Losien, I left her there only because it felt a good end to the post, and I don't know what would be good for her yet to do.

Also, in short, Britt, love your latest story posts and your workshop posts! I find myself sitting on both sides of the character traditionalist/growth fence, so to speak, and wanting to compound both sides, hah.

Pros for traditionalist: NeS shares quality with oral, episodic stories, which work best with "flat" characters. Stories can focus on not how they unfold (with a character evolving) but why they unfold (a 'message'). Stories can focus on 'escapist' qualities. A character can NOT evolve and still be 'rounded' in a non-escapist story - either a tragedy, where they fail to change for the better, or a happy ending, where they resist the change to become worse.

Pros for 'growth': NeS also shares qualities with written, meta-narrative stories, which works best with 'rounded' characters. Having new characters allows the NeS to be something 'bigger' than just a select, specific cast of characters, and allowing them growth (for better or worse) allows for new things to happen, transform, move, tackle non-escapist stories best.

So yeah, I sort of agree with all of you, and I think Britt captured best the thoughts I'd have voiced regarding that.

And for those of you who may have forgotten where to find the Chinese student contest entrants that I intend to be drawing from, you can find it here:
http://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?60324-Chinese-Students-Competition-(Finished-please-choose-your-favourite)&p=1158458&viewfull=1#post1158458

Britt's already introduced at least one (Long Xiang).

First, many thanks to Britt in particular for posting as of late!

Many non-thanks to me, as I've been pretty slow for me as of late, and I could use everyone's help to make sure I don't slip in the "I want to post but ____" pattern I've seen others writers have done in the past. I hope the following directions I'm aiming to do will help:

• Immediate goal: write posts to include characters from Britt's Chinese students contest. Most of them will likely be just brief appearances -- I will only be attempting to write the 'winner's' entry with the intent to involve said character where I can. (Speaking of, I believe it was the demonic dealer, who seems to share an awful lot of similarity now with High Imp -- should we combine them, or have some sort of relation between the two?)
• For this story-arc, once I have done the above, I intend to do my best to take a much more passive writing role, where I will be working just to improvise off what others offer. By this, I mean I do not intend to lay down any story-arc-length goals, etc. as I've done with ones like Memory Lane, Story Arcade, etc. In fact, until our last story-arc for NeSquared, I'm likely to stick with this non-leading role. This is hopefully to spend more effort towards the items I'm about to mention.
• Work on the NeS Notes site. I've put this off for too long, and it's primarily because I believe that there are some core foundational work that needs to be done that cannot be skimped on if the site is to be useful. I intend to outline my goals for NeS Notes specifically in the near future (after the first bullet point at latest). I know that Britt in particular has been eager to help, and I want to do what's needed to have him and others help. I hope that the outline will spell out what I'm aiming NeS Notes to fulfill and why, so that you all can understand.
• Search for, and set up, a new home for NeS. Once we wrap up NeSquared - come the completion of page 50 - I feel that it'll be time for NeS to move to a new place. We should decide whether we want to find an existing site and community who may wish to host and participate or if we want to create a new site for the NeS to live on (which may or may not focus on NeS alone). Massassi, unfortunately, does not provide the community or the ability to draw new people on its own anymore.

In the more distant future, once the above two items are addressed, I intend to try and resurrect old NeS projects, such as a published written work, the webcomic, and so forth. Anytime between now and then, I also hope to draw new people for writing when I can, though I must confess that I don't know how to do that these days - I've reached the limits of my social circles whom I've reached out to in the past.

On a good note, I've gained personal experience that should help write the challenges Young should have with her child, thanks to spending a week with my sister and her one-year-old. @_@

Man, even my short-term goal is holding me back! So I'm doing what I can to post regardless of if I can think of a way to work in the character entries or not. I'd at least like to work in the contest winner before long, though, so we'll see.

Also, how did I not see the possibility of a window into NeShattered? It's so obvious - good work, Britt!

FYI, I decided to remove the 'update section' from the first post of the workshop thread, as that information is oftentimes more accurately captured at the top of each page in the story thread now. Let me know if any of you object to that or whatnot.

I OBJECT!

Judge Krig: Krig overrules!



Seriously, though, it's cool.

Goodbye, update screen.

We miss you.

Hello, Tracer.

We miss you.

Just to mention that you often link new writers to the first page of the NeS workshop where some kind of summary might be useful for them to read and decide if they want to join the writing crew.

Aha, valid point, though generally these days, I link them to the last page of NeS and/or the new people page on NeS Notes. Still, I think I'll go back and at least link a summary or something to the current story-arc. I'm just not going to have it the way it was before, which seemed an unnecessary duplication of information that was generally out of date.

Speaking of wikis, I need to get back to you on the temp wiki to get that rolling. I also need to stop being a bum and post more. I know what I want to post next too, ugh.

Relating to the Potentials then, what do you reckon? I believe that the Potentials for Gebohq, TLTE and Al Ciao are dead. I think Gebohq might have mentioned that Antestarr's Potential is also dead?

I don't know exactly when the Potential arc was, was it the original NeS or Nes2? If it was in the original NeS, that would mean the Potential for Evil G is also dead.

That leaves everyone else.

Gebohq said that we should avoid creating Potentials for uber characters. They don't need Potentials, so it's basically Potentials for our usual main cast of heroes. I already have designs on the Potentials for Voodoo Snowflakes and Soriel, so please avoid doing anything with those. Otherwise, I think it'll be interesting to see what Potentials pop up and if they'll really help stop Empress Iriana Emp.

I do have an idea of what Apple's could be, but I'm not 100% on that. I think my most favourite one to see would be The Otter's!

To address some of what Britt brought up:

The Potentials for Gebohq, TLTE, and quite likely Al Ciao (technically Highemperor) are, as noted in the Death of the Potentials storyarc (pages 12-16 of NeSquared), have been killed. Erronem and Phoenix (Geb and TLTE's Potentials respectively) were killed by TLTE (the former due to Erronem's "tunnel vision" in dealing with Geb, and Phoenix because Phoenix wished it) and Alexan (Highemp's Potential) was killed by Antestarr (because he had a device that allowed him to move at a "writer's speed"). All likely had help by the storyarc's bet that allowed "villains" to win, which the 'heroes' had become according to Ante. No other Potentials have been explicitly mentioned, much less killed, so if Ante's is dead, it'd have to be from less metafictional ways - perhaps becoming a NeSferatu kills one's potential.

While Evil G was "born" between the original thread and NeSquared - before the storyarc in question - I'm uncertain whether Evil G could be considered a unique enough character to have had his own. I suggested that Evil G's might have had the same Potential as Gebohq, though I could also easily see some sort of "Evil Erronem" as his Potential (though, like Evil G, an "evil" Erronem would be mostly in name). If such were the case, Evil Erronem would be fairly similar, representing balance for instance, and perhaps appearing as if he was seen in a shattered mirror. Then again, even if Evil G had one, maybe it'd be completely different. Whatever works for the story, really.

As Britt said, I think it'd make sense story-wise as well as help keep some things in check if 'uber' characters (gods and god-like characters) didn't have Potentials. After all, they're uber, so they've almost certainly have no potential that they haven't already become themselves. If they did have potential, it may be of the tragic variety - potential to fall down on their luck, lose their power, what have you. There's a lot of tangents the concept of personified potentials could have, and Britt has talked to me about some of them, with my response essentially consisting of shrugging a lot, so take it as you will. Maybe there were some one-liners from the previous Potentials story-arc that could help, I don't know. Heck, Erronem and the others had screentime before then too, so there could be all sorts of minor things I'm forgetting.

Losien's Potential would likely be similar to Geb's as far as embodying heroic qualities such as an aura of leadership, great courage, capable physical and mentally, which may or may not be due to "main character" status and/or the "ohq" lineage she has - possibly moreso than Gebohq. I noted in her character profile long ago that she had a potential for unmatched willpower, though that's never really came up in the NeS at this point, so I don't know how much that really applies. Apart from that, I'll aim to personally avoid overplaying the "beauty" aspect (preferably not played at all but that may be unavoidable) and likely make some similar parallel to Gebohq (for instance, that like Geb's cowardice, she has the potential to overcome her self-doubt, but perhaps she'll never have the potential for a 'successful' relationship as was suggested by Erronem to Geb, though that particular suggestion would only work if her relationship with TLTE falls apart, which it could depending on TLTE).

Besides the idea of an "anti-Potential" for Otter, it should be noted that he has the "potential" for really good judgment and perception, which he's almost never capitalized on due to his alcoholism and general self-perpetuating bad luck that's landed him a pretty solid "side-kick" gig. Perhaps his "anti-Potential" is also a raging drunk, who knows.

Aside from Amal and Otter, I've got no particular ideas for anyone else at the moment. Just keep in mind the previous story-arc: dealing with Potentials is a pretty big deal - the heroes were probably better off with the powerplayer and have likely doomed the NeS now, which is fitting as things approach closer to the end of NeSquared.

So yeah, I didn't do anything with the Potentials xD Btw, I have no plans for anything. Like the Mongolian Sakura tea? No idea what it is. I figure Britt might have fun with that, though Also, I'd love to see Britt's take on Sran Cadpill's future personality in Apple's timey wimey wristband xD

Hmmm...Allow Doc Brown to demonstrate divergent time streams



But yeah, Gebohq and Evil G were the same until the end of Page 50, right? So Evil G's Potential was killed (because Erronem was killed). Everything that happened to Gebohq happened to Evil G until Page 50.

Obviously, if you mean because he became Evil G - therefore changing who he is - then that would make sense. Having said that, that would mean any character that goes through a major transformation would have a Potential again. So that should now include Al Ciao too!

Personally, I would prefer not to rekindle dead Potentials. So, although I would love an anti-Erronem, I think it would be better to have Evil G and Al Ciao's Potentials classified as dead and unable to be rekindled through loophole.

Besides we potentially have a lot of Potentials about to be on the loose :o. Anything to limit the damage :neckbeard:.

And I was clearly getting mixed up with Antestarr doing the killing and not the dying ;).

But this actually puts Al Ciao and Evil G in the unique position of being active cast members with dead Potentials, now surrounded by those with active Potentials. Of course there's Gebohq, but he seems more interested in Rachel right now. And TLTE is reduced to damsel again.

Here is a query, however, on who can have a Potential. We agree that over-powered characters ought not to have them. But where does that leave Rachel? Technically she is over-powered, even if she tends not to exploit this, through her role as April Fools' Day.

I hope you were okay with Maeve's Potential. I was originally going to give her a ready rubbish Potential, but at the end of your post here, Geb, you put "remember big deal - worse than powerplayer" and I thought well... I can't go giving her a naff Potential now! So I thought... game-changer. That would be a good element.

Also Al, hope you were cool with the Iriana stuff. Tecnically she's a completely different Iriana anyway, but still. Hope it was good.

I'm interested in seeing your Amal and Otter Potentials, Geb. Very interested.

Also, I created a "character sheet" for the Potentials as a collective group. I think you, or Al, would be better at filling in the first three.

http://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?18370-ISB-character-sheets&p=1183585&viewfull=1#post1183585

Hey Britt, just wanted to let you know that I'd be really interested in seeing what you might write between Al and Iriana (any of them). I left Losien's soul open because I don't really know what to do there, and I figure you have at least a smidgeon of an idea. I'm not actually that great with courtroom scenes xD

Also, I kinda figured that one of the powerplaying Irianas can take over the world/universe, but it's basically irrelevant, since she's "nice" and generally makes things better and a little wackier such as with Catro (brilliant btw) xD When I wrote Iriana has having taken over the world in my previous post, I was essentially writing her off xD I didn't see a reason to do any kind of showdown. That said, if you want to do a showdown, be my guest; I'd certainly enjoy reading it, and even more so if you involved Al somehow.

First - DON'T READ THIS - unless you read my latest NeS posts.

I hope you were okay with what I did Geb! From your message on Skype, I assumed that you were hinting I should try to include your ideas into my post if I got to it before your could rewrite your own. I know I HATE rewriting posts - they're never as good the second time around!

I wasn't quite so clear on your idea for The Otter, so I did something around what I thought you were going for.

And so there goes Soriel.

He's been immense fun to write and I'm so sorry to see him go. But I really felt it was the right time and the best way. He went out at the TOP of his game. It's better to burn out, than fade away - right?

Honestly, tell me if you cried. :awesome::XD:

With Apple basically out of the picture (at least as a major character) that kind of removes my Main Cast Characters! But, I'm good with that for now. Lots more characters to develop! And kill... I mean, uh!



Why was I left to write the Iriana-Al Ciao scene, eh!?

I hope I handled it well enough. In all honesty, those lasts posts were fairly emotional, man! Wow. I used my own feelings as a father to try and guess at Al Ciao's actions and how he would feel. Largely GUILT would be the operate word. I think they have a future, but it won't be easy. No one gets over that so quickly. I imagine Iriana is going to distrust Al for a long time and Al is probably going to distrust himself.

I'm not sure if Al would continue to be aloof with her, or become overbearing. He might start trying too hard and make Iriana even angrier and annoyed with his presence.

As for the Powerplayers. The showdown will come.

The Potentials were brought in to deal with her, so really she couldn't be left out of the loop because there would have been no point to bring in the Potentials at all.

I think the two of them would probably cancel each other out in some way - leaving us with our own precious Iriana Emp. Leaving us with the remaining Potentials to deal with!

Tracer's Potential, The Oracle, may be the first to go on grounds that it would be annoying to change font everytime you write a narration - hahaha. But I liked the idea and I think it's an interesting idea for a Potential.

Took me ages to come up with something for Couchman, but when I did - wow. I think I floored myself when he threatened to turn Evil G into an armchair.

Emperor Pi was done, mostly to fill in an empty spot. Geb, you said you wanted 12? You got 12.

Also, I didn't realise I start a new page until I'd finished both posts - sorry the Al - Iriana scene got tacked on the end of the intro post. I would have changed it if I hadn't already posted afterwards!

Wow. Holy crap. Wow. Jesus.

I did get a welling of emotion in my eyes (no tears, though), just like I did when Apple became Chronos and Voodoo became Magick. You are seriously taking this to epic/melodramatic territory :O It's good stuff! And then killing Nick over in HFO The Soriel/Thand thing is totally brilliant; never saw how similar they were before. And Soriel's last words being a lie, omg, so heartwrenching.

Also, you did great with Al/Iriana. I'm just a sucker for when people write my characters stuff xD Part of my ego

Not sure what to post at this point, and I won't have Internet over the weekend, so you may have to wait till Monday to get another post from me :/

A whole weekend, how will I manage?

I am hoping to do more characterisation this story arc, even more than I usually do. I was waiting for the end of the trial to come (which is why I hadn't touched Iriana-Al Ciao) and then focus upon the characters. So now I'm free to do so!

But what about the Potentials?

I'm kind of going with the idea that the Heroes wouldn't go round murdering Potentials just because the Potentials are there, right? It's only if the Potentials get up to something they shouldn't be doing, correct?

This should put Emperor Pi, Magick Snowflakes and probably Chronos into a safe zone.

Gwenhwyfar and Orochi are already hinting that they may have some cunning plot in mind, so I think they'll be excellent antagonists. Venedite has already been causing trouble - but is it enough trouble to be considered a villain? She's now the 'good' hand of the NeS, too. Obviously Nyktelios is ebils up the yin-yang. Characters like The Nega and Quo Anima, I imagine, will simply be dragged around by Gwenhwyfar and Orochi. Prophet doesn't seem all that evil either though.

So, anyone got ideas on what the Potentials plan to do?

This is to me what epic scenes are to Al -- yay!


Even on a pragmatic level, those that know how the previous Potentials experience went know that, if their Potential dies, they themselves are, in all likelihood, crippled for life. Geb had to go on medication to not suffer from extreme "emo-ism" and no longer has the potential to be a great main character/leader/hero. Highemp's Potential, when killed by Antestarr, pretty much made him into Al Ciao, which is arguably better, but for Al, his life is now something of a joke, helpless to do much of anything and aware that his existence, at least in comparison to the ultimate destiny of epic-everything that was Highemperor, means nothing. And TLTE's Potential, while possibly a "good" thing in making the Ultimate Villain killable, quite likely means he has no option for redemption either (since his Potential was of rebirth).


I imagine, at least initially, that The Nega will hold back the Potentials' ability to overpower immediately, because as The Otter often screw things up for the other Heroes, so would The Nega "negate" the power of the Potentials. A case could be made that The Otter would actually want him dead so that he could be more than his negative Potential, though I imagine Morthrandur would step in at that point to try and stop him.

The only idea I had for Quo Anima/Amal is that Amal would confront his, which would begin a decent into "being someone meaningful" and thus more like the evils from TLTE. We'll see if that's where it actually goes, though, as it's very difficult to play that out when TLTE has been ineffectual for this story-arc and the previous one.

Overall, as you might find in my post (which I've yet to write), it might be worth noting that the Potentials situation could be "bad" because they'd be too good at being the Good Guys, and thus would actually empower the Ever-ending Plot to end the NeS. While this would be a twist to the EeP's role versus in the original thread (where 'Evil' won), I feel there's a lot of other loose ends that would fall into place for the EeP that I've yet to consider, and making the Potentials the crux of it in this manner might be too limiting. At the very least, it can be something the heroes consider.

I'll end the workshop post with my thoughts on the nature of the Potentials.


What is a Potential?
A Potential is a personification of a character's potential, as primarily defined in #6 as a noun. They are often idealized humans, even god-like in their ability, often more dangerous than gods and powerplayers due to their stronger drives and sharper wits (see potent #2). As personifications of potential for any single character, they generally don't work well together.

Is a Potential a separate entity?
Yes. As with any personification in NeS, a Potential has their own will, body, and government-issued IDs such as driver's licenses. They are, however, greatly shaped by their character, and in turn, greatly share their character in typically subtle ways.

If a character fulfills their potential, does their Potential still exist?
Typically, yes, and subsumes the character in the process due to their potency (Thand absorbing Soriel, for instance). It should be entirely possible, however, if perhaps unlikely, for the character to remain the dominant personality (likely the case for those like Emperor Pi). Either way, the fulfilled Potential is typically at the top of their game; people who have become gods in their own right.

Could a character have more than one Potential?
Logically, one would probably say yes, as people have the potential for many things. In terms of the NeS, however, characters are generally considered to have one Potential that defines them. For Geb, it was heroic balance and faith, for TLTE, rebirth and hope, for Maeve, it's dreams, etc. It might make sense that characters might have new Potentials born as the character themselves transform, though, and is something I've wondered might make sense for someone like Geb, whose previous Potential is now dead. In general, it'd probably make sense for a way of Potentials to be born in a distinct manner that's not "two Potentials get busy and make a baby Potential."

What happens when a character is confronted with their Potential?
It depends on how they view their Potential and what their Potential is like. In the cases of those like Geb and TLTE, their Potentials were very potent, and trying to challenge their own was, as TLTE put it, "being faster than your own shadow" -- likely an understatement in their case. For someone like the Otter, his Potential (or anti-Potential, as it were), might technically be very easy to fight, though would likely be equally challenging to deal with from an existential perspective. For someone like Frank Smith, he might be quite comfortable with his Potential and what it stands for, and could, in theory, work with his Potential without necessarily any sort of domination of one over the other (ex. Frank might, by nature, be the type to have his Potential grow as he grows, and share a mutual relationship). In just about any case, a character confronting their own Potential likely has some significant impact on them, regardless of how potent their Potential is. Just think if you had to blatantly confront your own potential - just think of all the "what-ifs" you might feel you're not living up to, after all.

How do you kill a Potential?
Surprisingly enough, how you kill any other person for the most part. It typically helps to a) have someone else kill your own Potential and b) have an edge. Otherwise, they are more than able to hold their own.

What happens when a character's Potential dies?
In the cases of Geb, Highemp/Al, and TLTE -- bad stuff. Not that it should be easy to do: Geb's died from "tunnel vision" and not anticipating TLTE's attack, Highemp/Al's died from Antestarr using a device to go at the speed of a writer at the eventual cost of his own life, and TLTE's died willingly after coaxing TLTE to kill him.

So what's up with Thand? Are you suggesting that all humans are Potentials?
In Britt's post, Thand is established as the paradoxical Potential to exist before his character, Soriel, and when Soriel realized his Potential, could no longer exist as he did. I took it a step further to say that Thand is the paradoxical Potential of all that are First among their kind (normally not a big deal, since as was almost the case with Soriel, is not something they typically realize before they die). By its nature of being first, Thand generally exists before any character he's a Potential of. They generally uphold other traits, such as an antagonistic quality, the ability to unlock potential in others, and pursuit of something new, such as knowledge.

I also had Thand say that the children of Man were all his Potentials. Characters can fulfill their Potentials, so characters are potentially (lol) Potentials. On a metaphorical level, one's child could also be a parent's potential, and Thand is technically the father of humanity. Mostly, I just wanted to further establish Thand as a "special" Potential, to reconcile his identity as the First Man as well as being Soriel's Potential. In any case, it shouldn't be anything to get too hung up over.

Time to see if I can squeeze in some more posts now!

OOPS!

I had to edit my Tanks! post as Al posted when I was still writing it. My fault, I left my post sitting there all day as I slowly wrote it while doing other stuff. Sorry about the plot-hole, the whole roof part was kind of a key feature. The only real change I made was, obviously, to Al Ciao's actions. He had quite a bit to do in my original post, but he never made it back to the roof. At the end he was meant to be with other four, but now he's a prisoner with everyone else. Ah well! That's the NeS for you!

Oops! LOL xD Good stuff, but I don't have a chance to add any more before the weekend!