not surprising, since you had more to do with his development than even I did. :p But I agree. So as a challenge to everyone if you write for Voodoo, put Sran in there from time to time.

Argh! You're infected with philosophy! Oh noes!

Concerning all the clones of Geb, they were mostly a reaction to Britt's Hero Force One Qhobeg. I'm certainly glad that the Gebohq the writer writer approves. I'm not sure if they'll turn out to be the TLTE of NeS^2, but I guess that depends on two factors: will they ever be united, and just how many of them are there.

In any case, somebody needs to handle the romance scene between Young and Al Ciao, Ben needs to wake up, Sarn needs to find Voodoo who is now portalling to the HHH with Ford, and heroes in general need to decide which BBEG to take on next. Not to mention Red and Doctor Evil's offer, Nick confronting both armies of evil outside Disney World, Hero Force One in general, and who knows what else I may be forgetting.

No clue what I'm going to write next. It will mostly depend on what other people have written, or to be exact what they haven't written, once at least two to three more posts have been made.

Cakes. Seriously? Cakes. You guys are better at writing my characters than I am.

"Ares : Right. What were you planning on doing with that gigantic fireball? Cram it up your ***?

That is not what DarkEgo planned. It was not what DarkEgo planned at all."


ROFL!!!

Very nice line(s).

Sorry about my last post for the NeS there. It was a bit ham-handed. I'll try better next time, promise!!

Whatever. I don't even read sarn posts.

I'd like to take this time to be far more defensive and technical than is needed.

1) Before my post and TLTE's, TLTE and Amal were last seen in London, using Ares as a distraction for the Patriot while they zoomed away. How they got from a desert to London, well... that's the beauty of NeS.

2) While rustic is not something often associated with ruins, I'd like to technically point out that it need not be stonework of a great civilization in ruins -- a simple English town could be in ruins as well. Romantic is just to emphasis the form, imagination, etc. aspects of the visual. Let me have my alliterations, darn it all!

3) It's rather fortunate that the looming figure behind him wasn't specified, since the Patriot is sort of indisposed as 50 lesser entities of himself at the moment. Time for me to add to the scenario...

EDIT: And with the scenario added now, I'd like to throw out some possibilities for where it could go:

1) TLTE steps it up with his darker side, using the story convention of Russian Roulette chance/last shot to actually wound Rachel significantly, then force her to do what he wants (like bring him The Patriot, or protect Losien, etc.)

2) TLTE uses his metaphysics/metafiction knowledge to a less dark extreme, simply finding a way to grab her upper arm. She may then trick him by appearing as a guy (to make him think the tactic won't work) or as Losien (to startle him into letting go), but then Rachel might point at him and boast her trick, only for him to grab her arm again and not be tricked the second time.

3) TLTE plays to a lighter side, capitalizing on his character veteran status and not resisting the role of the fool to keep her pranks from having as much comical punch. She then might stop on her own and move on with something else.

Of course, there's a billion other possible ways for the scene to go too.

I like the first, so i didn t know about the second.

Hello!

Glad you like the story -- feel free to write for the story if you wish. Did you really read the first thread? How did you get to know about this story?

Hello,

I read your comment.Well nice information sharing.I like your idea for sharing the updates, article and links related to the topic.Please keep sharing updates in future.Thank you for sharing the comment..

Hint : Use JMX01's Cleave-O-Matic on DarkTsEgo.

I also intend to use it to put the Patriot back together. I just need to get off my lazy butt and write it!

Someone should play with the Rachel/TLTE fight, though.

Oh it doesn't merge things. You'll have to find something else that merges things...

I thought the Cleave-o-Matic could both cleave and un-cleave?

Nope. Though. Ego is kind of a CSG Merge, isn't he?

If anyone has any plans/ideas/etc. for the next story-arc, post about it here! Otherwise, I'm cooking up something that will hopefully be good, but it's something I only want to whip out if we don't have anything else.

I'll be trying to post on the story and get the current story-arc approaching a resolution soon.

*pokes head in*
Am I interrupting something? Well hopefully not. Had some good reasons for disappearing (two tests and a car wreck) but all those happened after the hiatus started. Real reason is just anxiety/depression about actually writing the post. I warned that this happens to me from time to time. I become afraid to even check the forum... meaning I have no clue what was happening right this second.

So I'll be doing some reading tonight, and I'll make a post by tomorrow, but I have neither a clue what the next plot line should be nor the desire to suggest it given I've been gone for so long.

Oh well, off to do some reading.

Just glad you're back, man.

So, yeah, Hi! I'm back!

I haven't read anything between the time I left and now. Maybe I'll get around to it someday. For now, I just want to write silly things.

What the--you're back! Awesome!

Also, for those of you who may have heard me plotting about doing something with Geb and Thand and co., I still may, or maybe one of you will take it and run with it, but whatever the case, I'm hoping others will take the reigns for a bit. I don't know if I can be active enough to spearhead a story-arc at the present. We'll see.

I suppose if Soriel, Highemporer, and TLTE aren't feeling like being power playing super villians, I can keep it up. :S

I LOVE YOU

First thing, welcome back Krig. You are by far one of the saints of this thread.

Second, my previous post is not just another stalling tactic. It's literary attempt to recap what we have to work with. I know there are things that have been glossed over, but realistically, those are our main options on the table unless someone wants to pull out something completely different from behind their back and put it on the table.

So let's see what the next poster bites on. My next post is going to be actually getting Benjamin into some real cloths, maybe followed by checking on what Nick has been doing.

Thanks, everybody! I've missed this place.

First, JM, I meant to put your character among the trio of villain-types. My bad. However, I'm not actually seeing a "former villains strike back" sort of story-arc for here. Really, I was just thinking "heroes look for jobs/recruiting new heroes" sort of deal, and if something else came out of that, cool. It's a bit of the same stuff we did back in the original NeS thread, but I think the concept is fine enough to recycle.

Second, Ben, I'm honestly glad you made a "remind us of the loose ends" sort of post. The veterans can tell you that I have a penchant for wanting to tie up loose ends, and you gave possible directions for the NeS in a very good way. Try not to forget though that sometimes loose ends just can't, or won't, be tied up for whatever reasons, so if the story ends up not mentioning those things again in favor of WACKY ANTICS OF SECRET SANTA GIFT-GIVING GONE COMICALLY WRONG *cue audience laughter*, don't beat yourself up over it. The NeS will do its own thing at times.

Third, I know I say this a lot, but please everyone do what you can to get people involved! I'm afraid my ability to drive the NeS may be limited for at least the next month and this story needs all the fresh blood for the blood god energy it can get.

With that said, LOTS OF TEXT BELOW!

In case anyone wanted to see what I had been plotting for a possible story-arc. I still may whip the idea out soon (or some time down the road) if no one else does, but if anyone else wants to run with it, just hover your mouse over the spoiler blocks below:

PREMISE
Days pass, and Rachel Pi is unable to find any major conflict -- professional hero jobs are hard to find in the Hard Economic Times (tm), no internal fights seem to be ready to break out at the moment, etc. So (unknown to anyone else), Rachel manages to have a rumor published that a powerful artifact is thought to be resting in the depths of the Hidden City of Morchazima (or a better name) found in the heights of the Peruvian Andes. Antestarr (or possibly someone else), recognizes the rumor as something Thand held in highly secretive regard, and thinking that Thand could be plotting something, Gebohq and the other protagonists, encouraged by Rachel, go to find the artifact before it falls into the wrong hands.

The majority of the story-arc would be usual NeS craziness, probably with a number of Indiana Jones spoofs thrown in, such as Thand saying "I hate snakes" and whatnot. As Gebohq and the others delve deeper into the city and some elaborate underground tomb, they'll have to avoid, among other tactics from Thand, Rube Goldberg-type diversions that Thand does on the fly (using his intelligence and wisdom) to try and stop Geb and company in an ideally comical and yet fitting manner (I see Tracer potentially being best at this).

Eventually, Geb and Rachel will reach the resting place of the artifact itself, which appears to be tied to (or somehow protecting) the well-preserved corpse of a female. Rachel convinces Geb to help to remove and/or use the artifact, when Thand stops them, finally revealing both that Rachel had tricked them (disturbing the artifact somehow being detrimental and that Rachel was either aiming in general to be the villain or perhaps specifically to trick Geb into some Romeo and Juliet-style "die together" sort of deal) and that Thand's motives to stop them wasn't out of some evil plot of his but to keep them from disturbing the body of his first (and possibly only) true love. Ideally, there'd be a gripping scene of Thand looking like a small old man as he stifles his sobbing while holding onto the body.

GOALS AND PROBLEMS WITH THE PREMISE
There were several goals I had in mind with this story-arc:
1) Create a story arc that would make Thand an active antagonist that other writers could more easily write for in the process. Love can turn the smartest of men into blithering idiots, so the idea that Thand is protecting the body of his once and possibly only true love could allow him to break from what is otherwise a rather hard character to write for -- the always-right mastermind. It would also continue to toss around the idea that Thand is truly in the right and not a villain (at least in the traditional sense) while making us question his character at the same time.

2) Continue to develop Rachel and the relationship between her, Gebohq and Thand. I rather like the idea that she's become a Protector to both antagonize Geb and to do as he wishes in protecting the story, and being a Protector can always be fun with morality of character - making her villainous without being pure evil but instead flawed. I also wanted to possibly delve into why Thand helped Rachel make it possible for her to hook up with Gebohq -- perhaps Thand would have a heart-to-heart with Gebohq about relationships, as relationships have actually been one of the pivotal conflicts with Gebohq.

3) Give an opportunity for character growth for some characters. In particular, The Last True Evil came to mind, as he needs more bonding time with Gebohq to build on likely conflicts down the road with TLTE's fate-to-come as Ultimate Villain, and his role as hero/villain would juxtaposition nicely with both Thand and Rachel. Al Ciao would be a good second, as he has close bonds with both Gebohq and TLTE as well as continued exploration into his new persona apart from Highemperor. Ben, as a promising newer character, could offer a lot too, as might Soriel for similar reasons with TLTE. These would not be required for the premise though, and certainly other characters (even new ones) could be included.

4) Do something different with the backdrop. To my knowledge, NeS hasn't gone into Indiana Jones-like territory, and a hidden South American Peruvian mountain city seemed like a good backdrop.

There are still some major problems to think about though:

1) What exactly is the artifact? It needs to be something that Rachel could make Geb and the others think is heroic to adventure for yet be something that would actually be detrimental or 'villainous' to obtain. It needs to also look like it's something that would be key to a potential "scheme" that could be mistaken to be Thand's. It also needs to be something that would make sense to be found on Thand's deceased loved one.

Possible Solution: the best I could think of (with Krig's help) was something like the Cord of Eternity, which would be a silver cord that would be thought to have great power to save/rule the world but actually just has the power to kill anyone that touches it. The cord would be tied around/over Thand's deceased love's remains as a ward. This doesn't seem entirely good enough, though. The cord might also be tied with Thand's life himself, or the life of the NeS, but again, it doesn't seem quite right.

2) A story revolving around so much that "needs the characters to be written right" (Thand in particular, TLTE as well if included) could deter people from writing. I'd argue that the whole point of the NeS is to write the things that are "wrong" only to discover that they're better than what was originally envisioned, but I know a lot of the writers don't believe me. It's why I wanted the "Maybe and company recruit heroes" to be a parallel story to go along. I still claim that, if nothing else, we NEED a story-arc to make Thand an ACTIVE antagonist, but it's hard to create a premise that stays true to his character while making him accessible to write for. I still think this general premise is one of the better ways, and ultimately, we'll just have to dive into the deep end of the pool no matter what. Still, any other plot devices or the like to help in the matter is something I want to hear.

3) There's no concrete middle-material. I'm not terribly concerned about this, but all the same, I know the NeS has a tendency to peter out on its story-arcs sooner than expected most of the time, so some concrete "checkpoints" of character goals or the like might be useful.

There is also a story-premise that Al Ciao/Highemperor suggested that I rather like. Here it is verbatim from the latest letter I received from him:

PREMISE
"I was thinking about Al Ciao's new focus on his friends, how he wants to help them find the happiness that is denied to him. So when he hears that Geb rejects Rachel in order to save the universe, he enters the Dreamstate (by going to sleep) to confront Arkng Thand, to ask him for a way to enable Geb's romance. [note from Geb: rememebr that Thand made it possible for Rachel to trigger the romance with Geb in the first place] Al says he will sell his soul -- referring to powerplaying -- to help his friends, at which point Morthrandur appears and interjects, "Like I did?" Dialogue between the three.

Cut back to the waking world. Al awakes with new knowledge that Thand gave him. He goes to Geb and tells him there is a way he can build a life with Rachel without obliterating creation: renounce his destiny as an Ohq.

He explains that the machinations of the Ancient One and his own alter ego Highemperor over the centuries have created the impregnable perception of power and supreme destiny within the Ohqs in general and Geb in particular. And, if Geb so chooses, he can use that power to change the perception of destiny and divest himself of it.

But there is a price. Geb will be made "mortal", if he chooses to release his destiny, so that story conventions would no longer protect him (at least not as much), rendering him vulnerable to aging and true, final death.

Then you could have Geb agonizing over the choice. What he does is up to you, but even if he decides to keep his NeS-destiny, the choice will always be there...

[Note from Geb: the Ohq lineage is, in short, that which would make him the "main protagonist of NeS" - its main story-wielder, its defender from the Ever-ending Plot, that sort of thing. This is all not necessarily something I would have figured myself, but the concepts behind it seem neat enough of a potential story.]

Feel free to question, comment, criticize, use and abuse any or all the above as usual.

Those sound good. Also, I would recommend jokes.

Haha, of course, Tracer -- I didn't mean to gloss over that! I just have an easier time rambling/plotting things that don't involve the comedic side. I'd like to think most of the story-arcs in NeS have a sort of Scrubs structure to them -- filled with lots of comedy gold, but ultimately telling a dramatic story as well i.e. dramedy/tragicomedy.

Also, the lots of text I posted earlier are just ideas of mine. As far as I'm concerned at the moment, the 'plot' is just "crazy antics with hiring new heroes/finding jobs" and let it go from there.

I like this arc a lot, Geb - I think some grass-roots adventuring could iron the kinks out quite a bit.

I like the premise and twist in the treasure Thand is guarding as well. However, my only disagreement is in the denouement - I don't think Thand would cry over anyone anymore, assuming he once could.

As I've tried to hint at when writing for him in earlier arcs, Thand considers himself neither good nor evil, but above morality. Continual adherence to this for eons would leave one bare in an emotional sense.

I'm reminded of a brilliant line from Mort, as Ysabella talks about Death, her adopted father - "I don't think he can feel sadness, but maybe he can think it".

Yeah, I know, and this is where we differ. Where as you see him having become "more than human" and "above morality" over the many years, I see him as becoming more "the human" and actually just has a better understanding of morality than most, if that makes any sense. This is for two main reasons:

1) Being "above morality" is almost always a story convention for becoming evil. Even if that's not actually the case, in a story like the NeS, where perception is reality, could easily label him as such. See trope: Above Good and Evil. Having a better understanding of morality, though, means he can actually BE right (at least most of the time) while still being subject to question and, yes, even flaws, without being an outright villain.

2) Being "more than human" means he is no longer human, which subjects him to the conventions of no longer being special. I've talked about this with Al Ciao/Highemperor in our letters to each other, and I'm still of the proponent that the world of the NeS is very human-centric -- characters of Gods of Ultimate Power and crazy talking animals and whatnot are all there to put the spotlight on humans, which the majority of us relate to the most. This obviously has its drawbacks such as Humans are Bastards but also assumes that Humans are Superior as well (while the examples may be more focused on science fiction, they apply here as well). Thand, I think, makes a great antagonist to rival the Ever-ending Plot and The Last True Evil because he is still ultimately human -- this is, I would argue, a large part of the appeal of "The Greatest Story Ever Told"; the story of God as Jesus, one of us. Being human, at the risk of stepping on the challenges people like Ben are valiantly making with their characters, makes Thand a character we actually care about. Again, in the NeS, perception is reality.

The two reasons obviously tie into each other as well -- being "more than human" could be looked as evil as well, and being "above morality" (even if not an excuse to be a monster), is something that we, as most people, have difficulty identifying with and thus becomes "not human."

Which brings us to our more concrete disagreement -- Thand crying. You've been in theater as much as I have, if not more, so you should know that, if nothing else, a lack of emotion tends to kill drama. Just outright bawling either, of course, is no good. For a character like Thand though, it would really carry weight if he's suppressing (consciously or not) his emotion only to still cry over his first and probably only love (again, something that can make people do uncharacteristic things). As another concession, his love would probably be from a time when he WAS "still human."

Finally, our disagreement between Thand is also another major reason I wanted to make a story-arc like this in the first place -- to get other writers involved to break our disagreement and add their own two cents. The main consensus I got before any of this was "Thand is too hard to write for" and I can't blame them. I was aiming for a story-arc like this to make it more accessible to write for Thand while staying true to his character at the same time.

By the way, nice post TLTE. I have a soft spot for AWKWARD!

Well, if you wanted to make him the human, then I'm at a loss as to why you didn't take to the origin story I ran by you some time ago that posits Thand as the first human to exist in the NeS Universe - the Adam figure. This is still the direction I see the character going in, because it's the only one that could rationally explain why and how he does what he does, and his disdain for the WriterGod etc.

Geb, I know you like explaining things in terms of tropes and...well...what I see as your attempt to empirically quantify the conventions of literature and drama. Unfortunately, that's not a road I can follow you down. To me, it smacks of needless rationalisation, in the same way that George Lucas must have thought it was a great idea to explain that Jedi and Sith are super-powered because of micro-organisms living inside them. Midichlorians make sense, after a fashion, but neuter the magic of inference and subtext. If we explicitly label conventions and incorporate them into the storyline as if they were themselves magic powers, we begin to distance ourselves from the nuances of characterisation in the first place. I think our efforts would be best focused on the dialogue and subtext, rather than what Great Conventions of Story are dictating in the background. I tried to run with the Ultimate Convention subplot myself for a while, but it just seemed so forced to me, I couldn't realistically write another word about the matter.

I hope this doesn't come across as antagonistic - I'm thrilled the NeS is doing so well and I think this new storyline could solve all our problems - but while I never intended to write Thand as "more than human", I think you'll find that any momentary drama you get from seeing him cry will turn out to be a Pyrrhic victory in the long run.

Hmm, I think there's some miscommunication here. Let's see if I can clarify.

First, I've actually been running under the assumption that Thand was the first human in the world of NeS. My original concerns when you first suggested it was that it would carry too many religious overtones, but I figured so long as Thand was actually a combination of various origin myths (plus our own twist), that it wouldn't be a problem. The "I hate snakes" parody joke would be pretty arbitrary otherwise.

Second, I entirely understand the concern of "labeling" the meta-fictional elements. I know I've indulged myself time and again with it, but I've watched enough anime where they over-explain things to death to know that subtext is a beautiful thing. The post with Thand versus the NeScholars, for instance, is something I don't intend to do again, and if anyone else thinks I'm going down the road of George Lucas, please please smack me.

However, in my last response to you, this wasn't my attempt to "objectify" things -- it was my attempt to show you that the current portrayal of Thand makes him out to be a weaker character than I think he has the potential to be. From the things you've focused on, he's at best an Adrian from Watchmen and at worst a pure monster with holier-than-thou motives. This would be the case even if the NeS wasn't a meta-fictional type of story, but since it is, it's even MORE important that he avoid these tropes. I don't see the meta-fictional elements as being spelled-out replacement for magic in NeS (that would defeat the purpose of meta-fiction in general) but I don't see the meta-fictional elements as something that are just randomly thrown in either; the meta-fictional elements do define the world of NeS. I would never ask you or anyone else to write in a style that isn't true to you, but you have to trust me when I say I do think about these things and (at the risk of being conceited) think of them as they're truest to the NeS and to good story-telling in general.

As for Thand's crying, let's then ask this. Ignoring everything typically "NeS" with the comedy and meta-fiction and such, why would he be so invested in keeping Geb and the others from disturbing the body of his Eve-equivalent if not out of a strong love for her? Not to suggest that emotions are the end-all/be-all, but it would seem very strange (to say the least) if, after so much effort to keep them away from her, he was all just "eh" upon being in his dead love's presence, no? As a reader, I can't say I'd really be able to identify with "he might be able to think about her" -- it may have worked for the story you mentioned, but I have a hard time seeing it working here. But I also have a hard time seeing Thand being in the right when he calls Geb and the others insects, makes some lofty predictions, and then does a lot of nothing.

Again, this is why I wanted to get the other writers involved -- as it should be anyway. The collaborative efforts I'm confident will resolve our butting of heads.

EDIT: Please, please continue to be antagonistic or mistaken for it. I thrive on communication -- silence is the worst for me. And, of course, I'd argue that the NeS isn't doing all that hot right now, but I always think that, don't I?

EDIT 2: I'd also like to defense my one post of Thand vs. the Scholars as mostly a response to actually deter what I think has been your use of storywielding = ultimate power. We make fun of characters with ultimate powers with Ares, and overcoming characters with "ultimate power" is not only done often in NeS, but just becomes silly when more ultimate powers try trumping the last ultimate power. Thand is supposed to be wise and intelligent, not just another "I'm stronger than everyone" character. Yes, logically, ultimate knowledge can bring about ultimate power (as Al Ciao pointed out to my grudging acknowledgment), but his strength as a character should come from his ability to think and think correctly to boot. Hence, my spelling out of conventions to show how Thand manipulates them explicitly with his thoughts and not just "does them." </defensive rant>

EDIT 3: Totally meant to also say that Ben's post with the strip tease to the audience was really funny! ^_^

Couldn't there be a compromise? Maybe Thand doesn't cry, but gives some subtle indication that he *might* be feeling an emotion, but maybe it's just indigestion. Like he briefly puts his hand on the dead woman's hands, with no expression on his face, giving the subtle impression that all of his actions in this storyline have secretly been motivated by love.

Also, I think "I don't think he can feel sadness, but maybe he can think it" is an excellent phrase to apply to Thand.

Also, relevant question: I've started trying to catch up on all the stuff I've missed, but haven't got to the part where Soriel is introduced (actually, I haven't even found the spot where I last stopped reading ). I did read his bio though, and I'm just wondering: is he still all bloodthirsty and wanting to kill things? Or did that get resolved? I'd like to write a conversation between him and Krig about killing things, but I need to know where Soriel is coming from.

How about you just write it and see what happens?

You guys made me look up tropes in the dictionary.

Ultimately, JM's right.

Longer answer: I'm all for a compromise that makes it all vague and uncertain. It's a proud NeS tradition. As for Soriel, to my knowledge he's still a bloodthirsty villain-type, but has been attempting to restrain himself to be "one of the heroes" as he's attempting to better understand his 'enemy' and the ways of the NeS so he can be a better villain. Also, I don't know where you last read, but I think you last posted towards the end of page 19.

EDIT: Tracer, don't feel bad. TLTE made me look up Pyrrhic victory on Wikipedia.

I don't know what half those words mean and I still haven't looked any up.

Then you sir, fly by the seat of your pants, and I respect you for it.

He's right. Let's just write the thing, but mark these words well - if emotion is what you need to identify with/bolster the strength of the Arkng Thand character, Gebohq, then I would strongly suggest a different emotion to sadness. I think disdain and perhaps regret would suffice, and wouldn't cheapen a man who appears to be in control of everything. I feel sensitive about the point because I think we can write a unique literary character here, and I trust my instincts well enough not to fall into a pit of tropes.

It was never my intention to write him as a Veidt/EeP character - you can believe, if nothing else, that I understand which direction to take him in!

Regret and a level of uncertainty in his expression is something I can see working well. Honestly, so long as it's clear that Thand has a motivation for keeping Geb and the others at bay (even if it turns to something completely unexpected -- YOU WERE NEVER MEANT TO DISCOVER COLONEL SANDER'S SECRET RECIPE!), that's all I can ask for -- emotion certainly needn't be the only way.

It may also be that I would totally agree with you, TLTE, if I knew Thand's motivations and goals. Like Thand, you've kept those close to your chest, and while I can't do anything about that (as I am a firm believer that the NeS is where you can have your cake and eat it too; to play with the stories of others and yet have your own, and to create a story and yet be surprised where it goes), I can try to remind you that the NeS is about collaboration and co-ownership. I'm doing my best to trust you on the matter, but I have to say I'm relieved that you're not resistant to my attempt to get others to write with Thand as an active character. I hope you'll trust the rest of us not to "screw up" Thand's character in the process.

Speaking of, I'm now in a dilemma, because I'm still not in any position to "drive" the story, but now we seem to have both Krig and TLTE interested in jumping aboard. Argh! Ben, Tracer, JM, Krig, TLTE... any of you feel up to it? I'm only up for "driving" the story to Geb and the others taking on random jobs at the moment, I'm afraid.

So yeah, I decided to add a good healthy helping of old-fashioned absurdity.