Just wanted to give some explanation/etc as to my latest post with Geb and Amal.

I've wanted to do the post for a long while and never found a natural enough place until Britt made the post preceding it. The idea, of course, is that since Geb is no longer the main character, he's passing down the things he held as one to who he sees as the heir.

So why Amal? Why not his sister, the current and dubbed main character?

Well, from one point, Geb DID give Losien the NeSword (see end of To Hell With It All). Then some plotholes happened where Losien received Fred and Geb was said to have the NeSword again. For that matter, at the end of Memory Lane, Geb obtained a second memory copy of the NeSword. Perhaps there could be something sinister at work... or maybe just a flub. So Geb has given Amal one of them (which one is unknown at this point and may or may not matter depending on if the swords are identical or not) as Losien already has a sword of her own. She could, in theory, be given the other by Geb still, though I feel that wouldn't be as interesting. Maybe. Amal's been raised to take up the NeSword, training with a mock model in the meantime, so he arguably should use the NeSword more than Losien anyway.

What about the crown?

Called the Opaque Crown and made by Thand ages ago to protect his mind from reading and control by others, The Search for Opportunity was centered around the crown for Geb, so that he could better be a leader and challenge Thand without the risk of Thand overtly manipulating him (so Howard suggested anyway). Funny enough, the opportunity Geb got instead was to live a life outside the mantle of main character with his true love, so he got the crown with it being useless to him. While Losien could wear it, Geb probably thought little other than it might be make Amal feel good. From a writer perspective, I figured it'd complicate Amal's self-identity; he's given a crown to have his own thoughts when he's been defined so far by the minds of those like TLTE.

We'll see how Amal deals with his ominous destiny.

I have to admit at first I was like "can't believe Geb just did that!" but upon reading your post here, I can see why and I think it was a fantastic move. It sounds like this crown thing would actually serve Amal incredibly well and may help us develop his character more. I also love the idea of a 'ghost NeS Sword'. The ultimate blades collection then - The NeS Sword, the Memory NeS Sword, Fred Teh Uber Blade and... whatever the Anti-NeS Sword is that Evil G has. I can see this going somewhere.

Truth is, we still don't know where Soriel got Fred. There could still be something more to him than we yet know.

Had to plug those plot holes on Al's 'plan'. I'm not sure if I liked Maeve apparently tricking them all along - that didn't really feel very 'Maeve-like', but I think I kind of worked it out by mentioning that she would have regained her memory slowly after working for Stafford. Still, Forgotten Army supporting the NeS Heroes- should be interesting.

Also, I hope you guys don't mind my bringing Ping in. I started developing him a little in one of my previous posts and took the opportunity Al provided to bring him in. Ping_Me never really told much about abilities or anything of Ping, so I designed him based upon on joke Ping_Me made about Ping lagging. Hence he's a computer generated hard light thingy. And has a pixelated sword.

Btw, just wanted to mention how I literally laughed out loud to 'go go gadget boots' :XD:.

And I wasn't sure on where the Antestarr character is exactly headed, so I added that in there to expand upon his actions of killing... well, me. I have to say, Al... I ought to have your head for that!! Truth is, once I made Britt the Barman, I regretted it. I thought it was funny, but I didn't like having me in there. So then you killed me off and I was like... wow, that solved THAT conundrum! I'm not 100% clear on ink blood though. I thought it flowed through the Simon family, but now it was also in Britt the Barman? So I guessed maybe it's in active Writers' characters. I could be wrong, which is fine because I had Antestarr guessing too - so he could be wrong. The whole Nyneve thing is a joke about True Blood the TV show - but also I'm kind of anticipating a bit of a confrontation between her and Antestarr at some point -- I think there's going to be a division in the NeSferatu there and Nyneve will power her guys with this synthesised ink blood.

Also, I hope you boys weren't too bored with my recent posts - I know there was a lot of moping and arguing.

Ooooooooh! I also forgot to mention that I don't think 'staying in love' would actually be a viable option for DarkSide when/if she turns back. I know it's just Evil G/Al the Writer speculating but I don't think it would work.

DarkSide is a multitude of consciences, so only one of them buried deep within would actually love Al. The rest would be the usual evil selves. Hence why DarkSide speaks in plural, but LightSide speaks in singular. Personally the only way I can see LightSide getting her happy ending here would be for her to somehow become separated from DarkSide - giving us both LightSide and DarkSide characters. At least that's my thoughts on that issue.

On another note - I'm curious about our pregnant ladies and how long exactly they should be pregnant for. Trouble is NeS has more wibbly-wobbly time than Doctor Who ever does so it's difficult (verging on impossible) to really say how much time has passed. I bring it up not just because LightSide is pregnant, but also Mia may be ready to drop. But in reality I don't think thaaaaaaaaat much time has truly passed except for the occasional moments when we've put "two weeks later..."

Apple gave birth (to herself) during a single Story Arc, yet she was clearly indicated to be on high speed - meaning a way shorter time frame.

I am actually honestly curious now if it would be possible to determine exactly how much time has passed since the start of the NeS in story-time. Like... probably a year. Maybe?

Unfortunately, as much as I feel that SHOULD be the case, it's technically impossible, or at least very unlikely, as specific years HAVE been thrown around at times. I recall 2014 mentioned not too long ago, though I'm too lazy to figure these things out. I've also wondered how long strings of events have been, because a lot of times, story arcs will run from one to another, having them do a LOT of things while having implied little to no breaks. Not technically, though, I would probably guess the original NeS thread to span anywhere from as little as a month to as long as a year, with NeSquared edging more from the 3 month to 3 year.

We could also make some assumptions to determine a minimum time, based purely on time needed to speak dialogue (the vast majority of what 'happens' in NeS) and that one printed page equals approximately one minute of 'screen time' (so many variables, I know, and it's somewhere to start), and our average number of printed pages per forum page is likely about 40 (I'm assuming NeSquared will make my current average of 25-30 significantly longer for a number of reasons), means 2.5 days straight. We already know that's not right (if for no other reason than the '2 weeks' bit), so it's probably fair to say, at minimum, the events of NeS have to occur within at least a month's time. The maximum, of course, is far easier - nearly 15 years - as there's nothing to say events occur any longer than reality. That's, of course, less likely too, since it would seem absurd by even NeS standards for the things that have occurred to span such a large time frame.

As Britt said, NeS time is weird. Chalk it up to a universe where they have space travel in the solar system and yet adventure about often as if it were at least decades ago, if not centuries.

As for pregnancy, fortunately, MOST of our characters who have become pregnant could be handwaved with weird pregnancy times by their very characters (Apple, Young, Rachel, Lightside, etc. all have weird circumstances about them). Mia, however, to my knowledge, doesn't have that excuse, though maybe she could go summoning High Imp by mistake in attempt to get Highemperor's attention and have the baby demonically incubated or something...oy. Pregnancy is one of those things that's hard to realistically convey in NeS, though, for the reasons Britt mentioned, and is one of the reasons I like to avoid it. The only advice I have is to make up a dramatic/absurd reason for whenever it happens. "Has it even been a day yet?" "Nine months flew by when I stepped in that plothole puddle!" Whatever.

As for the whole Darkside/Lightside thing, I've left that one to you guys since the whole "becoming a lady Lightside" thing always seemed odd to me in the first place. Really, the only thing I've found interesting about it is Al's inability not to bone a woman to get her making babies.

Working backwards here, I should explain what's been established about bloodink, stuff mostly written by Al that I did some cursory searching over.

• Bloodink is first described as mostly just another name for blood, the 'most permanent of ink' (paraphrasing). Highemperor obsesses over mastering it as he's believed in, and even architected, its power to control the NeS, though it's later suggested that Geb and Losien's power comes from cheat codes. Still, there's good reason to believe bloodink exists, and is the "essence of story" -- an easy enough assumption if characters are the heart of a story, their blood would metaphorically write it.
• As part of that, there's some merit in your belief that bloodink flows only in the Simon family, as they're the remaining survivors of the Illuminohqi, who presumably were the only special characters which bloodink flowed through them. However, it's been noted that both non-Simon family characters have bloodink in them (Michael in his initial death throw bled bloodink from his mouth) and that those of the Simon family only have bloodink flowing or 'triggered' by certain circumstances (namely, forced into a heavily dramatic situation).
• On some more trivial notes, abuse of bloodink damages the permanence of the story (noted by the Answerer in NeShattered) and is likely darker than normal blood, perhaps even appearing black.

In general, the power of bloodink seems to be similar in the power of storywielding; while technically anyone can have it, it's significantly more potent with its major characters. Normal vampires can feed on any old blood, but NeSferatu are incapable, or unwilling, to feed on anything but bloodink.

As for the latest with Britt the Bartender (I thought having him there was amusing, and sad to see him go), suggesting that an author insert (which many of our characters started out as, if not are) has some particular bloodink seems an odd development. I'd prefer to chalk it up to Ante's obsession with the Writers bordering on madness, seeing Writers where there are none, and that Britt the Bartender was once a great adventurer (because we all know bartenders were once all former high-level adventurers) and thus happened to have bloodink flowing in him, buuuuut that would be negating what Al wrote. So instead, I'd take Ante's words at face value (because he's a smart guy) and say that Writers, vain creatures they are, often imbue their own pet characters with something special, and that Ante got lucky. Really, though, it's relatively moot as I see it -- any character COULD have bloodink in them, and it's generally the more major characters that have the potent stuff.

As for Ping, for not knowing his character, you pretty much nailed how he works. Technically, though, he reappeared in early NeSquared, so some of them might know Ping. I'm too lazy to look that up right now.

And the swords? Watch out for Al, you'll get him trying to throw in the Porkus Malorkus and God knows what else. Evil G's Anti-NeSword hasn't been described much in NeS apart from it being a simple black blade that is the NeShattered equivalent of the NeSword. What I can say, though, is that it's highly unlikely it can be used to plug the sword-hole in NeShattered the EeP is spewing from, else Evil G would have been able to stop that problem long ago -- it likely needs the original NeSword, and probably wielded by someone pure of heart or some such nonsense to boot, else the NeS be forever ruined by Plot and Endings and blah blah blah.

Speaking of Fred, though, I'm hoping to post again this weekend, and it'll likely have a little character fun with him, presuming I'm not beaten to the punch, hah.

Yep, I find it interesting too, tis why I write it xD It's my character hook for Al, along with the wonky hair. Glad you find it interesting too!



Meh, written during my days of trying to codify and coagulate NeS cosmology and subsequently placing Highemp at the apex 9.9 The subject's open to interpretation, write it how you see fit. In NeS 1888, NeSferatu were shown getting sustenance by drinking the blood of some random writer in Zurich, for example.



Sorry you were sad to see him go! :O I had a reason for getting rid of him, but I can't recall what it was >.< Also, I believe I established at one point (during said attempted codification, above) that Characters(TM) (i.e. author inserts such as most of the NeS heroes that have been written into the story at one point or another) have bloodink in them.



Probably the best way to interpret it at this point.



Ikr?! I was thinking the exact same thing. Britt, if you're interested on the source material, Ping_Me was first introduced in the two-volume series of Saga of the 3rd War and Shadows of Darkness, two complete novels written on the ISB several years ago, in which Geb himself played a major role as writer and adjudicator. Though I think Ping may have had earlier sources than that from Star Wars fanfiction, perhaps? Not sure. Those two stories are still buried on the ISB somewhere, and you may find them entertaining reads (especially seeing some of Geb's early writing as a teenager) :cylon:



I'm pretty sure there are more, but I can't recall any at the moment. On the other hand, great idea! I'm sure I can work the Porkus Malorkus into my next post somehow... when was its last appearance in NeS? xD

Well, Apple's pregnancy was a plot device, LightSide's pregnancy is more of a plot gimmick that I do think is developing characters around her - so it's good. I'm interested to see what happens with Mia and even the alien baby... wherever it is. I think the only pregnancy I've been unsure of is Rachel's. However, it does make sense. If we go back to Magick Snowflake's original introduction, she came back to protect "Gebswog's" mother. Gebswok being her child (presumably with Geb).






I REALLY want to write "Ye Olde Historicale Adventures of Britte" now.





I'm amazed I guessed it so right just from the word "lag" in Ping's original NeS post. I'm just that good, I guess. Haha! Unfortunately I wouldn't have the time to read back through old stories on here. As well as teaching, writing lesson plans and whatever I do with my free time, when I spend time on NeS stuff it's either posting or the wiki.

I never knew he had come back though, that's a bit of a nuisance! I would like to find that stuff.

Here's the first re-introduction of Ping and his significant other (also from the series Al mentioned), Pristine. The two basically just join to help Geb and the others out, but as standard of forgotten characters, just sort of fell off the map. So the guys active then would be familiar enough with Ping, such as Otter and MZZT.

On a somewhat related note, I believe MZZT is still keeping ye olde Hall of Heroes going as mentioned in the Memory Lane arc. Just figured I'd mention that as it might be logical to come up at some point in this storyarc.

Yes, you can see it mentioned in this last NeShattered post.

EDIT: After re-reading, I can see that it doesn't really make it clear that it's a hole a sword is meant to plug up. TLTE the writer may have mentioned about it in a workshop post, I don't recall. We talked about it when I visited him back in 2010, though. The idea was that the heroes would return to NeShattered one last time, where the NeSword would be used to plug/possibly control the fate of NeS, a sort of reverse King Arthur legend. TLTE the writer had the idea that the characters would vie for the 'right' of main character, and Amal would seem to be the proper heir (this would have been after TLTE's idea of a "happy" adventure with Losien, TLTE, and Amal bonding and things looking up). However, because Amal would presumably have become 'tainted' by TLTE's true nature/spirit, Amal would turn bad/bad things would happen/etc. and TLTE would then become the ultimate villain once more. Honestly, I felt the TLTE/Amal buildup made about as much sense as the Roland/Jake relationship in the Dark Tower series (which is to say, not much sense), and the way events have unfolded, I feel it'd be more natural for Amal to become the 'wellspring of evil' after dealing with his Potential, and possibly revealing that he was born a Blank Character like Young, and his attempt to assert his own identity to challenge his Potential ends up fueling the worst of Thand, TLTE, and Soriel imparted on him.

On a tangent, as for TLTE, though, his credit as the fated "Ultimate Villain" is becoming more and more difficult to make pay off well. Ever since the reveal in Death of the Potentials, TLTE has been questionably doing very little except having his destiny suggested when having been rejected from Hell upon dying to the Patroit, un-Forgotten by presumably one of TLTE's forgotten victims when Michael forcibly made him Forgotten, and otherwise mentioned by other characters. He's otherwise seems to have been very carefully written to be a "team player" (likely in large part because TLTE the writer stopped writing) and, in the past 2 story-arcs, written to be Losien's damsel with almost no screen time. I'd say TLTE is attempting to lie to himself by heaping his attachments to Losien and Amal, but there really needs to be some moments showing as much before Amal snaps and/or Losien does something (simply not loving him via a spell wouldn't be enough, though I can certainly see it starting a domino effect). Perhaps Amal could kill Losien in a 'realization' of dark wisdom - Losien doesn't love Amal, Losien keeps Amal from having his 'destined' purpose as main character... still not quite enough, as I see it, but perhaps some other pieces will fall into place before long. We'll see.

Anyway, back to the topic at had, out of the reasons you mentioned, #1 is not the case as he becomes painfully aware in this post that the EeP has begun infecting the NeS. Things got complicated for me to work his motivation when he got brought back into the fold, and thus have only had him address it once more since. If I had to pick, I'd say #2, though at this point, he might have given up and just be going for the ride. The only problem with that is he DOES have an attachment to Young and Chance. My original intent was then to have him ship off Young and Chance to another thread to hide in a place the EeP wouldn't follow them, but it's never felt natural to do so. It's also bothered me that Evil G has been away from Young and Chance for so long, but again, I've never found a natural opportunity for him to reunite with them. At this point, I'm mostly just trying to keep the thread-long buildup of the sequel threat of the EeP/TLTE a legitimate payoff come close to page 50/end of NeSquared, which probably means I'm going to scan through NeSquared for the loose ends that should probably come together.

For now, though, fun times with what we got, and trying to still work in the Chinese student entries. The pact-maker in particular is one I'm still having a lot of difficulty figuring out how to work in that ISN'T better suited for High Imp. Really, is there any reason we can't do that?

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooow! How WEIRD! I really was fairly spot on!! The downside is that I honestly thought I was being really original with the idea too! How sad. Well, now I can think about where Pristine is too, I guess.



Well, you beat me to it. I'd been planning a cameo, at least, for MZZT too since everyone is in London. I know exactly what I'm going to do for it too. I originally intended for him to see them fighting the raiders - but decided to postpone it until later. So, great minds and all that.

Soooooooooooooooooo, brings me to your other stuff. Truth is I had ideas on all this for a while but never really wanted to completely reveal my thoughts on it and let this go where they may. But now I feel it may be worth my mentioning my thoughts on the current relationships. That's right, the topic of romance! Haha!

Just to point out I know my own ideas on relationships and love in characters is very... turbulent and a process of trials, mistakes and defeats. I'm pretty sure, Geb, your idea is somewhere close to mine - perhaps a little less turbulent, I'm not sure. Al, conversely, has been watching too many Disney Princess movies! :D. I think Al's relationships seem to be love and doves and happiness only marred by possible tragic, though loving, death. So these ideas may be deeper and more pessimistic than Al would like to write in...

The Otter & MaybeChild

The revelation finally came - What happened between these two? The Otter dumped Maybe. Shock for everyone, how could he be the one to leave her? Their relationship was ironic from the start - the resident feminist in love with the most chauvinistic braggart you could think of. But Maybe, perhaps mixing with her feminist side, is strong-willed and fairly dominant. And Otter, being a chauvinist, was always unlike to respond well to that - or was he? I suppose it's all a show he puts on and really maybe he's happy with a woman leading his life? However his drinking is still a big problem.

He left her when she caught him drinking again and had an argument with him - telling him to stop. Not wanting to be controlled, perhaps because he was drunk, he left her. To be fair to Otter, maybe it was just one drink after a party and Maybe was worried about this and didn't want him drinking at all. Tee total. Worried he'd slip back. Of course he DID slip back, was that because he had one drink or because he knew he'd messed up the best relationship he'd ever had?

Either way, I'm not convinced their relationship will ever be what it was. They probably both love each other, but is that enough to heal the wound? Maybe they need time apart? We'll see.

Gebohq & Rachel

In all honesty, I'm getting a little bored on this front. The drama's over, they're happy and together and boring. Of course it's not really over and I suppose the fact that Rachel is pregnant could throw another spanner in the works. Unlike LightSide, who is constantly a wave of goodness, Rachel is more of a normal (well maybe not, but in this context she is) woman - meaning she's going to go through cravings, mood swings, anger, depression, and outright spite for Geb... who probably wouldn't understand what's going on or why she's being this way. That could make things interesting here.

When I first joined the NeS Gebohq was in a coma and Rachel was on a quest, alone, to save him. Soriel joined her and at the time I tried to make them good friends in a way. I never intended to have Rachel's love waver from Gebohq, but rather I wanted her to not be so outrageously in love that she was blind to all else. Even later when I returned I tried to have it that Gebohq was not the only man in Rachel's life that she would depend on. Soriel was good for that, and to a lesser extent Thand and even her father came along to weaken that dependence.

Iriana & Couchman

I don't really see this working out. In some ways it's this uneasy relationship that is making Couchman interesting. Without Iriana I don't think he would have been remembered this long and if his relationship with Iriana had remained as pleasant and polite as it had been going, I think both of them would have been dropped from boredom. Now that Al's involved with his daughter, however, it's obviously put Couchman in a situation where he's over-looking a dark pit. He doesn't want to try and stop his love from being with her father, but at the same time he can see her slipping away from him and trying to engage in bonding with her new family - LightSide included.

Truth is I couldn't see them lasting to begin with. He's a characterless lawyer, she's a snooty princess. We've tried giving more characterisation to Couchman but it's not really been much so far and I feel that he may resign from the group and let Iriana go on her adventure to Armenia without him. Maybe once done, she'd like to rekindle that relationship with Couchman later - not sure.

Al Ciao & Lady LightSide

In some ways, this is my favourite relationship - probably just because it's so WEIRD. LightSide has been fairly fun to write for and while she's 'nice' she's kind of Old Testament 'nice' - hard love. She's as likely to chastise Al Ciao as she is to kiss him. And she farts rainbows.

The fact that her future is wildly uncertain and she might eat Al Ciao in the future is tense, and she can't stop thinking about it. That feeling of doom is awash over her. Even Al must be thinking about it, though he seems to have a permanent optimistic streak on the matter - either than or so much apathy he can't be bothered to dwell on it for long.

The whole 'step-mother' thing LightSide now has to go through is also fascinating and I'm glad it's come up. It'll be an interesting relationship to develop. How resentful will Iriana be of LightSide? They have had a talk and there's been some familiar ground taken, but is it all roses in the future?

Antestarr & Subaru

Personally I would say it's 100% OVER and no going back. Once you try to tear a woman's neck open and feed her your blood, I think that's where the relationship grinds to a halt. Of course there could be reconciliation in the future - but I personally doubt it. This all gives Antestarr the NeSferatu plenty more to mope about. Subaru appears to be bearing up well, but on the inside she must be feeling awful and there's a good possibility all that pent up emotion is going to explode out of her in the near future. Of all the character pairs though, I do think theirs was a fairly good match because they're both kind of anti-heroes, Antestarr more so, and both more hard-hitting characters with strong personalities. Subaru, unlike Mimiru, always seemed more determined, head-strong and eager to make her point clear... much like Antestarr.

Maeve & Losien

Just to point out, although I wrote that whole scene that hints at some kind of deeper relationship between them - my intention is not to make it a real thing. Truth be told, I wasn't sure of what to make of Losien having lesbian sex really, it seemed unusual. But if she was going to have a fling, then Maeve seems the most likely to do that.

In truth I envisage that Losien regards her time spent with Maeve as a past experience and and that's it - it's over. She was being evil at the time, I believe, which would be her argument. However, as Maeve hints, I think it's perhaps an innermost lustful desire. I doubt she would love a woman, but she may have lustful urges that she represses. I think she'd enjoy flirting with Maeve, but that's it.

Maeve, on the other hand, doesn't seem like one to be tied down - probably because she was once and that marriage ended badly. So instead she likes to have lovers. However I do think she'll "hold a candle" for Losien - a kind of unrequited love. In fact I would say Maeve loves Losien more than Losien moves Maeve and that maybe even Maeve could have seen herself in a lasting relationship with Losien. At least that's now. Their friendship in the past was obviously severely tested and they've come through a lot recently together so they're on strong foundations.

Losien & TLTE

TLTE has been a dead-weight for a while, agreed. Perhaps in some ways I'm even responsible for that because I've been reluctant to use him very much. He's a dark, brooding presence with far too much charisma that outshines the other characters that are connected to him - particularly Losien and Amal. Before TLTE was pushed to the back, Amal was nobody and Losien barely visible above everyone else. She had her personality, but it was defined as 'weak' and essentially 'TLTE's woman'. But she was the Main Character and they were the WRONG credentials for such a role. I tried to get TLTE out of the picture and I did it again, with more success the second time, so that Losien and Amal can be free of his shadow and able to develop into actual characters. And MAN they've REALLY developed, especially Losien who is now basically outshining everyone else. In some ways she's actually now getting in the way of continuing to develop Amal (though I honestly think his recent connection to Gebohq is going to do wonders for Amal's character).

However my intention has never been to remove TLTE completely and certainly not forever. But he really did need to make room. TLTE is such a long-lived character and so well known that the moment he steps back into the story he will be instantly recognisable as a major element.

However I do have another motive behind removing TLTE and one that I just touched on the first time round...

Losien & Amal

Honestly, this is where I see things going. It was touched on briefly back on Memory Land and it is where I expect to see things go in the future. Polly is on her way to Baba Yaga's sister to make Losien fall out of love with TLTE, opening the gates!

Now this is not an arbitrary choice. And I certainly don't think Amal is somehow a better match for Losien than TLTE. However what it will do is betray TLTE in the most heinous fashion possible. The two he attachments to "good" he has - betray him.

Losien already cheated once with Maeve, though I'm guessing TLTE is largely unsure about that particular event. Perhaps he's so old-fashioned he doesn't think women can have relationships, even if they have sex. Maybe he believes it was all DarkSide's influence. Either way, he doesn't seem to have been too upset and still dedicated to Losien.

This time, however, it will be Losien with Amal and that sting of such terrible betrayal could easily be the unlocking of the great evil within him. He would lose the only two attachments he has left to 'good', his only anchors, and he would hate them both.

So, Geb, you have you answer to your problem

Just wanted to add that I would think Otter would be the one to have dumped Maybe because, in the past, he's had women reject him, rightfully in his perception (which is pretty right), because he's a wreck and always will be a wreck. With Maybe apparently giving it a chance, he initially goes with it because it's what he's always wanted, and after she catches him with a drink, he reflected and made his choice. I generally agree that it's not going to work out between them at this point.

On a related note, it's been suggested that Maybe has also had a friends with benefits fling with Ford. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

EDIT: I re-hinted as much in my post, as well as threw out a bunch of the Chinese student entries at once, hah. The remaining I still feel might get a chance for more significant usage in NeS, or simply didn't have names. On that note, I'm curious if the Canadian Collective could make a reappearance.

Ah yes, this is what happens when true love wins and they live 'happily ever after.' It makes sense, though - it's largely why Geb stopped being a main character. Sure, they get to still be involved by virtue of their relations with Losien and their respective professions, but the NeS is no longer a story about them at this point. They're there to highlight the story of Losien and the like. It's not to say they won't find challenges. They had them since their romance started, such as destroying NeS with their love, Rachel's selfishness and dislike for Losien, Geb generally seeming 'unworthy' for Rachel's love, pregnancy, and so on. However, and this is something that isn't natural for my typical approach to romantic relations, especially with Geb, it's established that they have TRUE LOVE. And this being NeS, something like true love actually can exist without question, so it would be unfair to say that their true love really isn't just because it'd make for a better story, and it'd invalidate the efforts they've put to make their relationship work. Sure, there's always the very real chance that they might not be able to 'be together' again, and I'd say that, regardless, they will always be the ones meant for each other, and they will always know that and want it.

Regardless, though, you're right in that her pregnancy would complicate matters, and that Geb would likely be stupid in some matters regarding that. However, with so many other relationships with babies, I'd personally prefer to leave most of that out of the spotlight, so to speak, unless it involves Losien or the like. Presuming Geb and Rachel, and their relationship, remains as is at the end of page 50, I imagine the two of them eloping to other story threads, having their baby, and generally continuing to be minor characters.

Presuming things remain as-is. I'm still convinced terrible things will happen, though, so we'll see.

Yup, I don't see it going much anywhere either. Besides, Iriana is, what? 16? And Couchman probably has a doctorate in law at least, and even if he were to have matched the record for youngest person to receive one (age 13), it just seems unlikely that he's younger than Geb (who is likely at least 23 at this point, possibly as old as 27 timey whimy whatever), it seems a bit odd. Then again, it wouldn't be the first odd age-range relationship in NeS...

Your reasons definitely show me it's a worthwhile relationship to explore in a story. Unfortunately, it's a relationship I have difficulty wrapping my head around, so I'm mostly leaving that to you guys.

Yup. I think they could make good ex's. Ante is not helping himself out, that's for sure. Besides, he's got himself an "It's complicated" relationship with Nyneve.

I just wanted to add here that, like Losien's homosexual fling with Maeve, Geb having, or having had one, with a guy, is as likely given a similar situation. Unlike Losien, though, Geb might have a harder time reconciling such a moment with himself. It's hard to say, as it'd depend heavily on the situation and who it was.

I agree that TLTE need to give Losien and Amal space to have them develop, and it worked. I just feel he should make his return sooner than later at this point, that's all. Despite my post that suggests Baba Yaga has a sister who could make it so Losien no longer loves TLTE, I want to make it clear that I don't think it should be just a matter of "they have some potion/spell/etc. that makes it so she doesn't love him" - if it did go down this route, I would think it has the opposite effect of a "love" potion. Where as a love potion normally doesn't result in true love but just heavy infatuation/lust, a 'de-love' potion wouldn't make Losien stop loving TLTE, but perhaps no longer physically attracted. In any case, such a root would result in a challenge of their love to overcome, where their 'choice' is still to love but just can't for an outside reason.

What I believe Baba Yaga's sister should be able to offer Polly, though, isn't that, but something like a honesty potion or something that requires the two of them to confront each other, something that naturally leaves Losien to realize and choose to not love TLTE anymore. Which leads me in part to the next thing.

I'm not sure this is entirely a solution to the problem, at least not in a "Losien falls for Amal" sort of way. Sure, that would be devastating to TLTE, and it's possible that TLTE could perceive something like that to happen, but while Amal certainly loves Losien, I think it's pretty clear that Losien does not truly love Amal.

I went back and re-read the Memory Lane stuff, and even when Losien had forgotten TLTE existed, she made it pretty clear that she did not think of Amal in the romantic sense, but as a caretaker. At worst, she blushes when the topic of sex comes up, and Rachel has her tricking Amal, presumably with the idea of some sexual favor. Otherwise, though, she confronts Amal when he's trying to use his storywielding to encourage romance from her, and even when she turns evil, she tells him "he's not getting any of her sexiness." Once TLTE is back in the picture, she immediately goes back for him, and leaves Amal in an awkward situation.

While I don't think I can see Losien falling for Amal, I DO see Amal possibly continuing to try and hook up with Losien, and perhaps resulting in a situation where TLTE catches Amal and Losien, thinking Losien has rejected him, when it's really Amal manipulating the situation, and before learning the whole truth, Amal kills Losien, perhaps having manipulated the situation with him and Losien just to exploit story convention to allow himself to be the main character. At this point, there's really still missing pieces that would need to be filled in to make this work, but I do think it's more unlikely that Losien would truly fall for Amal over TLTE, even if it WERE to be a better relationship.

Speaking of relationships, you forgot...

Evil G and Young
As mentioned before, I've found it hard that they've been apart. Granted, they've always had something of a distant relationship to begin with, so it's hard to say where their relationship really is at this point or where it might go... mostly I just wanted to remind that this one does exist. Aside from Otter, I think Morthrandur might want to pay them a visit too.

Polly Simon and her husband
It's hard to decide what her husband will be like because it's almost a feature that would heavily define Losien and Geb. The only thing we really know is that he's probably still alive, since Geb was tricked into thinking he was in the hospital. Apart from that, we really don't know anything about him or his relationship to Polly (and Geb/Los). Since Polly has been having more screentime, though, it seems worth mentioning that Mr. Simon might warrant an appearance in this storyarc.

Geb and his donuts
Mmmm... donuts...

Hi people, just chiming in to say that I didn't realize Irania was only 16. Whoops!

I don't think the age is official but I don't recall. Al can chime in if she's not a teenager.

Haha, ah well.

16 is the legal age in the UK so I didn't really think that much of it. And I didn't actually think on Couchman's age. I suppose it is a bit strange though.

Back to Amal and Losien. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean LOVE. Not every relationship is as simple as saying "then they were in love". I don't think Amal and Losien would be a very good match AT ALL, but I could easily imagine feelings, affection and smooching coming into play - meaning the betrayal would stand. But obviously, it's up in the air. That was how I imagined TLTE getting his rage on - I don't see how else it could happen save for someone crowbarring it in with some external force - like 'evil dude shows up and draws out TLTE inner ebilness' or what have you.

If TLTE does NOT turn evil - then what is likely to be happening on Page 50? The Eep?

Oooooh, I think we could use some kind of explanation on Morthrandur. Maybe a profile? I think he's also Sepulchral Phantom AND ... Geb's ancestor? What's his motivation here? Why's he interested in the Potentials? Why does he want Otter to kill his Potential?

It's the technical age for a lot of states in the US as well, and varies between state, but in general, since the legal age for voting, military service, and most signs of "being an adult" in the US start at 18, 16 is still considered a child/minority, and since Couchman is likely at least 18, at best, it brings up some similar disparities to Disney romances.


I meant to suggest that Losien wouldn't even have physical attraction to Amal, or at least as much as she's had towards, say, the Otter, who she actually dated at one point I believe. Hence why I was suggesting Amal might be manipulating to lead to such a situation that TLTE could interpret for the worse. I do see TLTE being turned by catching such a scene, after which, watching Amal kill Losien. Really, though, I don't see TLTE "turning evil" as much as "embracing who he is" - to emphasis that he chooses to be evil over being driven solely by victim of circumstance. The name, as his writer explained it to me once, was that, with so many other villains now having tragic backstories or the like that led them to villainy, The Last True Evil would be the last of a true evil. It's a tricky balance, of course, to reconcile that with a character that has depth, which is generally why I looked to using the one scene from the third Matrix movie as a starting point, where TLTE is ultimately not driven to evil to survive or "play a role" or just hating something but because he chooses to do it. With his Potential dead, TLTE has no hope for redemption, no 'hope' to even be punished, only to know death and pain, so as I see it, his attachment to Losien and Amal are his last lies to himself that he can be "redeemed" by providing for those he 'loves' and, whatever happens with Losien and Amal will only serve to be the final straw, so to speak, as opposed to some critical turning point. Again, not saying the scene will be easy - I just caution against "Losien and Amal hook up, and TLTE gets all jealous-mad to drive him to villainy 4eva lolz".


The EeP will happen on Page 50 regardless, though I'd consider it moreso a backdrop of dread than a villain in its own right. If TLTE doesn't end up turning evil, I'd imagine the focus would then turn more towards Thand. If TLTE is evil, I imagine Thand will play more a "final" side-role, significant but not the primary antagonist. If TLTE isn't evil, Thand should probably serve as the "final" antagonist in some fashion, though even then, I see it more as the NeS heroes against each other/the world than all against Thand. Even if Thand is said antagonist and TLTE stays "good" - it might be good still to have TLTE "choose" to be the Ultimate Villain in a more heroic way (perhaps for Losien and Amal) and then repeat the events of the original page 50 or something, I'm not sure.


He does have a profile, though it's a bit out of date now. I should have linked it in my last NeS post. Here you go - click here for profile.

The short for his involvement with Otter is that, after Evil G, he considered Otter as the next best in line to supplant Geb as the "NeSorcerer" - a role that, as far as I know, is synonymous with "primary storywielder of the NeS" (Al can correct me if I'm wrong again). I had considered that Morthrandur might have considered Otter due to his Potential, and he's mysterious enough to be the sort of person to tell Otter to do something as reverse psychology, but Morthrandur is also the type to like to instill doubt to an illogical level, and he is established to be the enemy of at least the original 3 Potentials back in the day, so who knows - it could go either way really if Morthrandur sees Otter as the next NeSorcerer because of his "anti-Potential" to challenge other's Potentials, or because he'd somehow make a good puppet or whatever.

It should be said, though, that Morthrandur probably had Evil G already play out what Morthrandur wanted back during the evil wedding storyarc - a child of the Ohq line and releasing the EeP. He's likely to pay a visit to Young and Chance in the way that a grandfather wants to pay a visit to their grandchild (as you noted, he is Geb's ancestor). Perhaps a little more ominously. Despite his stated intentions to make the NeS stronger, he seems to prefer doing it in evil ways.

To answer your questions, he is the Seuplchral Phantom, Geb/Los's ancestor. His motivation seems to be to "make the NeS strong by 'killing it' and otherwise being evil', though it's hard to say if that's really his true intention. He seems interested in the Potentials because the Potentials are generally "good guys" while Morthrandur is a "bad guy" and thus have a conflict of interests - anything else is generally too vague or conflicting in nature. And as said before, he may or may not actually want Otter to kill his Potential to somehow either 'kill Otter and make him stronger" and/or use the course of events to "make the NeS stronger (by 'killing' it).

I find TLTE to be the single-most overly dramatic (to the point of hammy) character in all of the NeS - so I find it ironic that he was supposed to be the last 'true evil' free of melodramatic backstory. The number of times TLTE has sacrificed himself and come back to life or some-such, deserves some kind of NeS award.

Personally under the description of 'no dramatic backstory' I would say DarkSide most fit that bill (I know Al gave him a bit of backstory, something abut maybe even a brother? I can't really recall - but beyond this).

Following the TLTE tradition I would have said being hurt and betrayed due to love would verge on cliché TLTE material. Like, it was what he would have written all along. I suppose killing Losien would be more melodramatic, but personally I have to confess that I have a distaste for it.

Before the Memory Lane story arc Losien really was the main character in name only. It wasn't until Geb was out of the way that Losien was truly developed and it took quite a bit of effort on behalf of us who were writing then to get her that way - for her to be bumped off in a few pages would be quite a blow. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, or that it wouldn't work, but it would suddenly feel like a bit of wasted effort - especially because she would devolve into being a plot device for TLTE's story all over again. You also mentioned you'd like Geb and Rachel to retire, and Amal would have done the dirty deed making him a sour-tasting main hero afterwards - so essentially we'd have no main character. We could use an existing cast member again, I suppose, but I rather imagine we may not have an abundance of great choices by then. And opening with a whole new cast would likely alienate older writers - such as Tracer here - so are fans of the originals.

Just thoughts on where things could progress down that path anyway. Obviously if it happens, it happens, and it could probably work very well. I'm just expressing concerns.

Personally, at this point, I would go for a TLTE is gradually consumed by his tentacley-rage aka Akira. I have no what why TLTE got those tentacles - he came down from... heaven I think and destroyed something with tentacle rage and I'm guessing that would be our Chekov's gun for his ultimate evilness. I suppose we'll just see how things develop. Clearly you don't see Losien taking to Amal even a little, unlike myself, so I'll avoid forcing anything there. Yet Amal has plenty of TLTE traits that Losien may find attractive. To be fair though, I often see Losien's attraction to TLTE as her old self rather than her new, more confident, self. So who even knows?



So Heroes VS the World? I'm down with that and I have strong ideas on how that would naturally happen too, whilst still involving Thand!:master:




Oops. Should have looked better.



I've always been interested in the character but really never understood him. I think that's because reading the NeShattered is fairly taxing and anything that mixed in there seems to have largely wiped from my brain. I know he evolved from the 1888 story too though.

Anyway, I'm surprised he sees so much potential for Otter to become primary storywielder, to be honest. But it certainly opens a whole new aspect to explore for Otter, whether Morthrandur wants him or no.

Why did Morthrandur want to help Evil G get a baby anyway? Wouldn't Morthrandur also consider haunting Losien or Amal for the same reason?

I agree he's the most dramatic consistent character, and probably why he's a good candidate for ultimate NeS villain, who typically exemplify character qualities that are bad for the NeS: serious, generally dramatic instead of comedic... maybe not terribly selfish or set in his ways, but could easily be so.

I'd like to clarify though that I did not mean to imply he was meant to be a character with no dramatic backstory - only that he wasn't a victim of circumstances. That is to say, he's not ultimately evil because his parents mistreated him, or because he's damned by the powers or the like - he's evil because he WANTS to be evil. In the past, his moments of self-sacrifice and good guy qualities generally came from his Potential for hope and redemption, but after his Potential died, I would say he's holding onto a lie that, before page 50, will fall apart.
As evil things go, sure. Probably why he had a big role at the end of page 50 for the original NeS.

Perhaps he might have. It's hard to say, and I try not to wedge things in a direction some other writer may have taken that's no longer writing. I'll address the Losien-dying thing in a bit.


In all fairness, she only had one story-arc before that, and I still feel she's a bit too "bland" now that she's all confidence with no lapses. Geb consistently had lapses in cowardice, and I'd argue that's what made him interesting. Granted, Geb also had a lot more story-arcs to develop in his own direction, and probably didn't really emerge with any typical "characterization" until, I don't know, the College Years story-arc maybe? I generally prefer to develop characters at a slower pace too, though, and don't mind if they're not transforming regularly or frequently.


Technically, if she'd be serving as a plot device for anyone, I'd say it's Geb moreso than TLTE. Normally, I'm not one for killing off characters, and if the moment comes where something else should occur, I'm down for that. However, what you're describing feels more like getting attached to a character and wanting them to live because of that moreso than what works for the sake of the story. Game of Throne characters die all the time (to an extreme I think makes it pointless); I don't think we should be concerned about killing off a character if it'd be best for the story. It wouldn't be wasted effort if not done right - it'd work as a REALLY powerful tragedy. Again, I'm not set in stone on this matter, I'm just saying it seems like a possibility that I think could work well.

Giving my preference for not killing characters, though, I'd likely think something like "Losien permanently blinded" or "paralyzed from the waist down" or the like might be more effective. I mostly thought death because Losien wouldn't be able to "fix" TLTE and Geb, and because it would be super-sad that, just as she's become this capable person that she's whisked away - the good die young and all that.


I'd only like them to "retire" so long as Losien is well and someone like Losien (if not her) is the main character. If a void were to occur, Geb would be compelled to return, or at least rectify the void in some manner. Regardless, I have no desire to stop writing for either Geb or Rachel, only that Geb in particular should be more of a supporting cast so long as NeS and those he cares about are "fine" (see previous). I don't think Amal is ever likely to be a good Main Character regardless of the situation - literally, all the others (Losien, TLTE, etc.) would have to fall for him to be fitting for the role. As I see it, Amal is the Harvey Dent/Two-Face of NeS: a white knight who's darker side eventually surfaces after a tragic situation.

Really, though, I could also just as easily see NeSquared ending with some Shakespearean "main characters are no more" fall and the characters to follow, old or new, going back more to a mixing team dynamic with no particular "leader" or the like. The original NeS thread was mostly that, and Geb just happened to be the most consistent one (thanks to me in large part), and page 50 makes a strong point that he was never really "destined" as its Main Character. An argument could be made that NeSquared is all a summation of Geb's inability to "really save" the NeS on page 50, that his wish to keep it going wasn't really how it should have happened.

Then again, this is NeS. Trying to read too much into what happens is generally a bad idea, and it's possible that its drama and plot has been getting out of hand.


Thanks for raising the concerns! Any major changes isn't something I would want to do nilly-willy, just as I would have been concerned back in the day if you killed off Thand all nilly-willy, since I think his "story" for the NeS still has something to resolve.


Fair enough. I'm not saying it's impossible for Losien to have SOME form of attraction to Amal - she's generally someone who, like Geb, can see something worthwhile in everyone. Maybe her attraction to TLTE is a holdover from her older ways, maybe she'll find something of TLTE in Amal, maybe a plothole just falls in the wrong place at the wrong time and causes a bad day for everyone. I just meant to point out that, in Memory Lane, she made it pretty clear she hadn't really been attracted to him. Embarassed at certain things, sure, but that's about it. I'd just rather avoid the scene that happens at the end of Star Wars Episode 3, where Anakin thinks there's something going on between Padme and Obi-Wan and I'm there left thinking "uh... what? You didn't need to contrive some affair for Anakin to become evil, Lucas. You had enough to work with, really." Again, I'd caution against TLTE turning evil because he becomes a victim of his "true self" - it should be because he DECIDES to be his true self.


More or less, presuming "the world" is "random plot points converging together that the heroes went kicking off and being the source of their own problem/everyone else's problem". Anyway, sounds cool.


I find CTRL+F to be my friend. It's how I'm such a good NeScyclopedia.



Hah, and actually, I generally DON'T find Morthrandur to be that interesting, lol. Really, though, knowing these differing opinions exist gives me confidence in knowing we're probably doing something right. Maybe. >.>

Really, NeShatterd doesn't reveal much about Morthrandur other than he had an interest in Highemperor and TLTE, likely because (in possibly retcon hindsight), of his history with them/their ancestors as Erro, as you pointed out. NeS1888 potentially involves a lot more character insight, though really, Erro is mostly written nearly identical to Geb until his final fight with Desmond.

Yeah, Morthrandur's interest in Otter was meant to be a "hey, Otter's got something about him that's more than just being a side drunk" sort of thing. Whether Otter really has a "chance" of being a storywielder or something else entirely is hard to tell, but if nothing else, Morthrandur has interest in him as a descendant of an old friend of his.

Admittedly, there's nothing to say Morthrandur helped Evil G out because of the baby situation - that's just my take on it. Again, family relations and "putting NeS through its paces" and whatnot.

Morthrandur might very well haunt Losien and Amal, and may be a factor that would help resolve sticking points mentioned before. Maybe. *shrug*

Again, I would say that's a little bit of romanticism thrown into his character - or maybe lack of it. TLTE is evil because (if I remember rightly) he's actually a clone, was raised by the USSR as a killing machine and was made to murder people for his 'country'. That's why he's evil. He also doesn't seem to want to be evil, and hasn't for a while. If he changed his mind and wanted to be evil again now, it would really be as a backlash against his 'good life' which doesn't seem to be as great as he always imagined it would be. He's holding onto those attachments, but if they were to turn out tainted then there goes the last tethers and he doesn't need to hold back, there's no more doubt - he turns evil again because he embraces his true nature and thinks he'd be happier.

As said though, I'm not sure on this myself anyway so I think we'll just have to see what seems natural at the time. Now I know he inwardly wants to be evil again, though, I may bring that evil streak out in him more often now. Eventually maybe it just erupts and consumes... like in Akira again :p



Well, Gebohq worked as the Main Character because he was 'everything' all in one. When he was needed to be brave, he was brave, when he was needed to be funny, he was funny. His cowardice was largely a comedic element - meaning he was often cowardly just because it would be funny. The truth is his cowardice, if you'll notice, actually developed from apathy and general laziness. He starts off as someone who would rather sit around and eat popcorn with Galvatron than bother fighting Ares. Eventually this becomes active avoidance and then is seen as cowardice and that persisted then on.

Just to point out the College Years was one of my favourite moments in all of the NeS. Suddenly there were clear and interesting characters and was incredibly enjoyable to read, compared with a lot of the earlier stuff.

The reason you prefer things done slowly is because you're like the Old Man of the NeS. You can afford to sit and watch things pass you slowly by. But the rest of us are fairly fleeting and if Real Life comes along then the NeS is likely to be high on everyone's chopping block - except yours. ;). We're all young kids, looking for the new and hip latest stuff, hahaha! I would say I'm more vested in the NeS than most and I went through a phase of thinking 'let's just start this whole thing anew' but was swayed, by yourself, into seeing things differently (which I'm really thankful about). Maybe one day I'll say 'take things slow' too, but until I'm an Old Man too I say let things ROLL! :p



I have to really disagree with you there. A plot device (or character device here) would be something that fundamentally acts as a catalyst for the character. Let's consider TLTE - he was the bad guy for a while, but Losien gave him a reason to turn good. She also gives him a reason to KEEP being good and not turn evil. She gives him a purpose. She is an object to rescue if needed. She is a reason for him to be with the NeS Heroes. She is the only reason he's actively in the story all of the time, afterall villains come and go. She's his crutch and is the only reason he is currently what he is.

As for Geb, the only time she served was to release Geb from his bond as Main Character and free him. Other than this one crucial point Geb's life without Losien (and by that I mean in-NeS material we can observe - not off-screen material we assumed happened when they were kids) would be unchanged. He would be exactly the same, doing the same things - at least until he stopped being main character and even then, it could be argued someone else could have taken that mantel after Geb and still free him from the responsibility.

Yes, I won't deny I am VERY attached to Losien after trying so hard to build her up into Main Character. In some ways I'm attached to Amal too after trying so much with him - though admittedly less so, probably because our efforts didn't pay off as much with him. But it's not really that which motivates me.

Imagine the NeS is a TV show. Let's not go with Game of Thrones, try something more traditional like House M.D. What would have happened to that show if they killed off, or even just replaced, Dr House? In a lot of cases, shows won't live much beyond this event. Same with bands, if the lead singer leaves then the band goes nowhere.

I'm sure a few people found Gebohq not being the Main Character to be fairly jarring, I know I did. And with him around, he kept being the Main Character in all but name only. He was always the real focus and the drive behind the team. And that's what is needed from a Main Character - a drive, a point of direction. You mentioned the first Pages of the NeS... which were the worst pages in so many ways. Obviously the problems there were not always because of a lack of Main Character, but obviously the NeS hadn't found its pace or footing - however a Main Character gives a character that can be relied upon as a focus point. Weirdly, especially for perhaps myself (now) and Tracer who won't likely use our own characters in the story. You'll notice most writers use their own characters because it makes it easier to have a focal point like that.

Humans need leaders. It's why Communism looks nice on paper, but in practice wouldn't work (the epitome would be a governmentless country). It's tragic but true. Perhaps we really don't need a Main Character, but there really ought to at least be a team leader. For example the X-Men and Cyclops. If you watch the old cartoons ( the BEST ones, haha) then it's easy to appreciate Cyclops as the team leader character and while he's not the Main Character - they all are, really - the group has a strong focal point for us to relate and the story gets a character to give it direction. Obviously the films were different, they DID have a Main Character, even though he wasn't team leader.

Anyway, again it's all speculation. Even if there was no main character, or team leader, on page 1 of NeScubed I think one would rise up fairly quickly. As said, it's a natural state and one that would be easier for writers to follow.



Yes. Quite right. And yet it's one of the BEST parts :XD:. Trying to analyse and study something that is, essentially, impossible to analyse and study. It's like those "Game Theory" videos on Youtube.




Question is, why would be decide to be his true self again? There needs to be motivation. Losien and Amal were the motivation to become good because they provided him with something positive and good in his life. For them to become negative aspects to his life, would make him see the 'folly' of becoming a good guy to begin with.



I rather imagine that would have happened anyway. In fact it seems almost certain at this stage as more elements seem to be resurfacing about now.



Well Young and Chance are at the Haunted Hall of Heroes! Haha! The ghosts would probably be most pleased to have a new friend. :p

I found him interesting in that I always wonder what his 'deal' was. He was there, mysterious and cool - so what's he up to? Who is he? Etc. The mystery kind of made him interesting.

All good points.



I actually chuckled out loud at this! So true! XD ...so true.

Just to point out, guys, that I'm going to the UK soon and probably won't have much time to post over the next few days. I should have time to post when in the UK but, obviously, can't guarantee that. That will mean a slow down of my prolific posting. Not that it will probably matter much, as NO ONE POSTS. Haha!

:o!!! Time to bother Al--I mean--write some of my own. Yes.

If you're able to respond, are you moving back there or just going on holiday?

Just a holiday. I'll be going for two weeks, then back again to Huizhou.

YES! I am BACK!

Sort of. Maybe. Temporarily.

Honestly, it just depends on my schedule and motivations and such xD But as of this writing, I would like to contribute again in a meaningful way. To answer a few points in those workshop posts:

1. Darkside's backstory. Uh, well, other than the obvious "amalgamation/incarnation of all of evil supervillains", I once established that he was Satan's older brother, son of Helebon (original ruler of Hell) and the angel Ariana, and that he had gone into business as a lawyer in ancient Atlantis, having the firm 'Darkside & Jones, Attorneys at Law'.

Of course, since then, we've had two major plot developments. For one, once Atlantis' source of greatness and fame - its banana-crème Oreo knockoffs - were Twice-Forgotten by Michael, Atlantis' history was remade, so that it was a tiny insignificant island nation. So now Darkside's background there is in some question.

And the other is that he's been revealed to be a woman. To me, it's not that Darkside was transformed into a woman, it's that Darkside was a woman all this time and had been keeping it secret. Possibly due to the patriarchal society of yestercenturies? I can definitely see her as having been an emo goth girl in her youth xD So if and when Lightside turns back into Darkside, she'll still be Lady Darkside. Her secret is out! :O

And probably a bunch of nerdy supervillains and mad scientists will want to date her. The horror!

2. Morthrandur. First he was the Sepulchral Phantom, then I gave him a name, Morthrandur. Then I went and made his backstory as Geb's ancestor. I kept playing with vague ideas of his purpose and motivations throughout the years, but now, to me, what I see him best as is exactly what he is now. A mystery. A wild card.

Other than his old familial attachments, I don't think he should have any known motivations. I fancy not ever revealing what his motivations, if any, are. I have no idea. I think we should keep it that way. It's so fun! I can also see him acting in a capacity of someone who tends to throw a spanner in the works, so to speak, a bit of a devil's advocate. He'll appear to someone, do something, or dispense some advice that throws someone - hero, villain, bystander - off their game, or puts some purpose or cosmology or commonly held idea in doubt.

It doesn't matter whether or not the idea should actually be in doubt, or whether Morthrandur thinks it's in doubt. Just that he sows that bit of doubt, just because.

Okay, so that does seem to kind of tie back into that old post about evoking doubt in others, but that could be just an example of how we use him. I really think he works best as a totally mysterious figure, with alien, arcane, unknowable motivations... and what makes it creepier is that he DOES have some rather more down-to-earth familial ties that might seem to color those motivations at all.

Are you confused yet? Good. That's Morthrandur.

EDIT: Also, Geb, what do you have in mind with TLTE, Antestarr, Morthrandur, Chance, and this obelisk?

Hmmm.

I'm not sure about DarkSide always having been a woman.

The way I look at it, DarkSide doesn't really have a specific gender at all. All the bodies he has are bodies of the souls he's collected over the centuries. So when he appears in a certain way, that's just someone else's body he's occupying. Including LightSide.

The fact he has a past does kind of cloud this issue, so I'm not sure exactly with regards to origins. However I'm pretty sure even you wrote him as a man back in Atlantis and stuff so it may not make sense for him to originally be a woman.

I always viewed DS as a 'force' rather than a specific character.

As for Morthrandur. I see what you mean and while it could be interesting that way, the problem is then writing him. I have no idea how to write him because I don't understand his motivations for anything. I may be able to work in writing with regards to his possible family ties, but otherwise he's going to be a constant grey area that I have no idea what I'm to do with.

So if he's to remain a mystery, I'll probably avoid using him much myself and leave him in the ends of you guys.

And as for your final point. I agree. Geb needs to spill the beans!

Britt makes a point about Morthrandur, and why Thand is a hard one to write for as well as I see it. Speaking of them both, as I see it, Thand's overall goal is the pursuit of knowledge and the survival of himself, humanity, and the NeS -- all three synonymous from his perspective. Morthrandur likely wants the NeS to be 'strong' and survive as well, and his overall goal is to sow doubt - think of his history as Erronem and being transformed by the Dust.

As for Morthradur's current situation with Ante and TLTE, I don't have any plans other than that Morthrandur probably has used Chance to just lure at least Ante, maybe to deliver some message about the impending doom of NeSquared.

So Morthrandur wants to 'save' the NeS and isn't technically a villain? Would he strive against the Eep, or want it to take over?

Points on the current posting.

Obviously feel free to skip reading Britt the Legend if you don't want to read it. Mostly it's going to reveal backstory and historical information for the NeS world, I guess. Already we have backstory for minor characters already referenced (Britt the Barman, Gebtulus Simonius, Locretia Simonius and Filius Farlanae - though barely with that guy) and possible backdrops for both the NeSferatu and Armenia.

I don't know if Al had any specific ideas in mind for Imperator, but I decided she's Highemp's ancestor and she's going to pave the road for the Armenian empire (actually the Armenian empire reaches its zenith in reality about 90BC, so it kind of ties in!! :o).

Of course, Britt lives all the way until the present, so technically there's centuries of material I could go through. I would like to explore the 'origins of the NeS Heroes', assuming that hasn't already been mentioned before.

I do plan to feature some of the uber oldies - already we got a Zeus cameo - expect to see the others. The Negotiator, if you hadn't already guessed it, is the 'contract guy' that the Chinese students invented. Finally found a good spot for him to occupy for now :D.

Obviously feel free to contribute more if you want to. Al, I'm sure you'd like to toy with the Armenian aspect.

Just to mention, is there anything specifically set about the 'Ohq' aspect to Geb and his family? I have some ideas on what I could do with the theme of Ohq, but I don't want to ruin past academia on the subject.

Oh! And I added that brief Nyneve post for chuckles. I honestly didn't plan any of this, but I do have a way of seeing connections and tying them up! Haha!:neckbeard:

As I wrote Erronem and his transformation into Morthrandur, I'd say he's technically a villain. Even as Erronem, I wrote him as a hero who believed the ends justified the means. Unlike Geb, who generally believes killing to be wrong regardless and can be something of a positive-pacifist to a fault at times, Erronem believed evil needed to be eradicated, and when presented with the choice to become evil himself -- by embracing the Dust -- to save Catherine from more or less a rape scene from Desmond, he did so. The Dust is a corrupting force, and I wrote it as something with primordial origins that would have been the 'mother' to those like the Darkside, so even if there's some hero-Erronem in him that wants to 'save the NeS', the Dust would have long changed him to, at best, take his 'ends justify the means' philosophy to the extreme.

EDIT: He'd still probably strive against the EeP. Probably. In all fairness, few characters would ally themselves with the EeP unless forced to or they thought it was in their self-interest. In the original thread, Bill Gates, The First False Evil, and Darkside are the primary willing servants that work with the EeP. TFFE I believe mostly did it to go after TLTE through any means necessary, Darkside did it because he was technically serving Gates, and Gates... I think there was a reason, but really, he was just dang evil. Point being, a character has to be either dang evil and/or driven beyond reason that only the EeP helps them with to help the EeP, and these days, since the EeP is less a will and more a force now (apart from what I'd argue is possibly his will in Chance - it's VERY long-term plot), wanting the EeP to take over for any character is synonymous with wanting all of existence to end - something only the most evil of characters would want. TLTE might want it soon enough.

And in case you're wondering, I'm pretty sure the Dust was last written to be unceremoniously vacuumed up by Maybechild and others in the HHH, though I suspect it's moved on from whatever dumpster bin it was thrown in to someplace else. It was something that never picked up much, so I left it as is.

While I believe there's been some snippets here and there (NeS college years, mostly), I think the "origins" has mostly been established to be the start of page 1 -- Geb and Galv doing some hero work as they find it after college, which leads them to the Arena, where the relative fame attracts a number of his other old school mates and friends from across, and get caught up in the NeS 'prophecy' so to speak, which was mostly a ploy by Highemperor to begin with as opposed to any 'real' one. I believe Al wrote that the NeS wasn't practically 'born' until page 1 in his NeS 1888 material in any case.

I'd like to mention two other things regarding the NeS 'origins', which you obviously can take it or leave it as you see fit.

1) I've been of the mindset that, just as the actual origins of the NeS thread have been lost (technically, page 1 is a continuation of "Nostradomus... Scary Stuff" or the like, which I only vaguely remember the contents of these days), the 'in-story' origins of NeS should, in some fashion, also remain 'lost', like someone dropped the first page and somehow that sealed the NeS as something that was "forever" -- to avoid the old "what has a beginning must have an end" convention.

2) In the last attempt at the NeS novel back in the day, I had actually hoped to unofficially write it as ultimately the "origin" of the NeS, to generally take place in the 10 or so years before the end of 1999, having unofficially and briefly cameo younger NeS characters including Geb, Losien, their mom, and TLTE. I can provide you the notes and such of what progress was made on that if you want.

With that said, I've generally wondered what NeS history was like during the World Wars/Cold War eras, since in real-life terms, those eras were far more world-shaking than arguably anything since then. I feel Geb and Losien's parents have still yet to reveal the full extent of their impact on NeS history, though these days, we know their mom, and Losien, are heiress to the Jupiter empire. Maybe their dad is one of the worst villains in the past century, or maybe the epitomous Unsung Hero, or maybe the most average file clerk to have ever existed... it's somewhat bothered me that I've yet to figure out their dad. Their mother is most definitely the paradoxical 50's-style helicopter mom/super-distant super-adventurer super-Queen figure, though -- definitely the type to have messed up Losien's self-expectations.

To my recollections, there's only the following:
-the "Ohq" lineage started as at least one of the founding members of the "Illuminohqi" during the height of the Atlantean empire many millenia ago, and virtually all of them were wiped out during the NeS 1888 era.
-As you established, at least part of that lineage may have been broken with Britt, and part again with Mustang
-'Ohq' generally finds itself as at least Geb's last name in the paperwork. Whether this is something significant tied in with the Taxman and his System or if it's just par for the course regarding bureaucracy is up in the air.

Apart from that, as I've mentioned before, my intent with Geb and Los's lineage has generally been to try and make it diverse, and mostly saw it as the "Ohq" lineage passed through by the father, winding its way into Rome and eventually Atlantis (and technically, to Thand), with the mother-upon-mother generally carrying the diversity, the most recent and outrageous branch of diversity being their grandmother to a Cthuluian-style alien (which may or may not be tied into their royal line of the Jupiter Empire). I think Al has generally established the Ohq lineage to be of some high importance to the NeS, though again, this may be an in-character machination of Highemperor and nothing more.

Whee Britt side-story! Let me know if there's anything currently floating out there you'd like me to tackle, as my intent is to try and make at least one post within the week before focusing my efforts on re-reading the NeS and taking notes, particularly with NeSquared, that could be useful to know for the thread's climax. I imagine it'll take me about 3 months if I can keep myself averaging a page a day. Obviously, I'll post when I can too, and I want my main focus to be on the re-reading.

I was under the impression that the Characters of 1888 were also NeS Heroes? They had their own "Hall of Heroes", which would later become the Haunted Hall of Heroes. I kind of assumed, after reading 1888, that The NeS Heroes were kind of like the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and there were several generations of them?



I'm pretty sure we're using "NeS" in different fashions here. I'm using "NeS" as in the NeS universe/canon. As in "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" when there are no X-Men, it's the X-Men universe. I don't mean specifically why the story itself began, I mean more "pre-NeS". Origins of characters, etc. We already have a lot of "NeS Origins" stuff, mostly from Al. One might argue that the "College Years" was a "NeS Origins" story too, as it was set prior to Page 1 and was being reported in-story (much like Britt the Legend).



I think Britt the Legend would definitely, eventually, be a great point to tackle Geb's mother/father. If it doesn't appear in Britt the Legend, I would personally like to see it arise in the future at least.



Can I get a description of the Illuminohqi? Are they still around? What did they do? Special powers?

As for what I'd "like you to tackle", I would rephrase to "stuff Britt won't touch" :p. I don't know what to do with Morthrandur. I know we've talked about him, but I really don't feel he's been any more illuminated for me to understand what the buggery he would/should be doing. And while I understand how TLTE is going to be important for the finale, I'm generally not interested in writing for him. Antestarr, I don't mind (though I must admit the vampire thing is starting to drag a little), but he's with two other characters I'm not championing so... yeah. You and Al get to play with that one if you want it!

They are heroes, most definitely, and certainly part of "NeS history" so to speak, history that likes to repeat itself. They are not, however, technically "NeS Heroes" because the NeS was yet to be 'born' -- you can see in this NeS 1888 post here about halfway down. As established there and in the end of the Memory Lane story-arc, what gives life to the NeS are its characters, and not just any character, though what exactly makes up a NeS character that gives the story life is a bit up in the air, and it's unlikely just the character themselves but specific actions, since the NeS did not begin with the birth of Gebohq and Losien...

It goes that the NeS world and its history are full of heroes and other characters and even stories of said characters arguably bigger at this point than the NeS itself, but they themselves are not strictly the NeS itself. It's obviously not the easiest thing to define, but certainly you can imagine reading about some other character in a story and thinking "I don't care about what's going on here -- I want to get back to the real story!" It obviously gets trickier if the "real story" of some character ends up being less interesting than what should have been a side-story, backstory, or the likes of something else, and is easily subjective in nature. Imagine if the last book of The Lord of the Rings hadn't been finished, and some other author decided "Frodo and Sam aren't interesting, I'll just focus on Aragorn and have him pick up the Ring after those two hobbits die and take it from there" -- perhaps that author would think they're writing the 'real story' to Lord of the Rings, and many might argue it'd be completely different. Did the 'real story' die, or simply change so much we don't recognize them?

Apologies for getting philosophical on the matter. Point being, characters and their stories in things like NeS 1888 and flashbacks would be considered "backstory" for the NeS, and things going on now would be "story-story." I'm quite aware the distinctions get fuzzy at best when backstory becomes a critical part of the story, blah blah blah... Hopefully, the explanation is good enough to understand and you agree enough with it to avoid thinking the NeS should shift its heart and soul to a Lost-style structure of gods in the near future and their goings-ons in 1940-1970.

Right, it's a bit trickier with the whole metafictional aspect of NeS, where "where the story starts" and "canon" and crap take on a literal level of sorts. There hasn't been too much on the lives of some characters and their ancestors apart from the College Years and things Al wrote like with NeS 1888. Personally, I only like to do that sort of thing if I think it's informing of something in the present. With the Legends of Britt, for example, I think it'll greatly inform something with Antestarr as well as how the Negotiator might enter the present. Otherwise, it just becomes world-building, which for its own sake I find self-serving, or at best, serving only the theoretical "hardcore" audience and alienating others. Again, I certainly agree what constitutes that is very subjective and pieces can certainly spark some new awesome part of the story, and ultimately, if there's posting made and it's fun, that's the biggest thing I care about.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent again. The initial point is you wanted to explore histories of the current characters, which can be cool, and I brought up the stuff I did because because I felt it was relevant. You've been doing an awesome job at making the Britt Legends entertaining and relevant as a flashback, and I'll defer to Al for the details of what may have already been established, though I think you'll be fine. If there's plotholes, well, plotholes!

If you are so inspired, cool! And so would I, and as I've said before, it's mostly just been a bother that I haven't figured it out yet, which I trust myself in believing that it's simply been because their relevance to NeS hasn't arisen yet (apart from what's already been brought up, of course). It's not something I wish to force, in any case.

You can find most all of it in the NeS 1888 storyarc, I believe, though I think there may have been some additional flashbacks in NeSquared regarding Atlantis, but I don't remember where to find those.

The Illuminohi, for the most part, are simply the NeS equivalent of the Illuminati, just as the NeSferatu are the NeS equivalent of nosferatu/vampires. They were wiped out in the NeS 1888 storyarc, with Erronem (according to Mustang at least) being the last surviving bloodline member. As for special powers, I believe they were imbued with bloodink, and may or may not have been something Highemperor manipulated into existence. As for special powers, I would guess probably some form of storywielding (as blood ink I think is supposed to make possible). Honestly, the details on that are fuzzy to me, and Al might better remember.

That was the implication, and that's what I figured. I'll do what I can to tackle that scene, and at the very least, get them moving apart from each other. In part to help me formulate how I might write the post to be...

Morthrandur:
Overall goal - Serve "Forever" and make the NeS "strong" (the NeS being never-ending). It exists now, and to 'protect' what makes it worthwhile, the NeS must continually be put through a crucible to eradicate what makes it "weak" and "bad". As Morthrandur sees it, the NeS can only truly be "forever" in nature if it is strong.

Methods - Spread doubt, which is the major factor that would make Morthrandur "mysterious" and difficult to guess his motive. Encourage key elements into play he deems would make NeS 'strong' such as appointing those like Evil G and Otter as the NeSorcerer, acting as minister for the wedding of Evil G and Young, and foiling the actions of the Potentials who generally are paragons of certainty in some aspect.

Specific current goal - capture Chance (succeeded, perhaps to do something to Chance himself), lure someone who cares about Chance to him (in this case, Antestarr and TLTE), probably to give Chance back in exchange for something related to the coming end of NeSquared or to simply tell them about it.

TLTE:
Overall goal (current, lie trying to tell himself) - to leave some lasting "good" in the NeS through those such as Amal, and to "be good" himself, by loving Losien, both as anchors in his futile attempt to redeem himself from his true evil nature of death and pain (which has been very difficult to do with TLTE continually written out of the action).

Overall goal (true once he accepts it) - to cause death and pain in selfish and serious ways to the NeS and its characters; to be unapologetically evil because he choses to be (while not well established, it's what TLTE was indicated to originally be before the Kirby Brawl, to be on par with someone like Bill Gates, though the 'serious' aspect really didn't arise until the end of Kirby Brawl

Methods - resourcefulness of a ex-Soviet spy, minimal knowledge of story conventions as taught by Thand, use of his internal manifestation of true evil

Specific current goal - return back with Losien, Amal, and the others to 'help' (as he would claim) and to try securing his redemption (as he's selfishly trying to do). He is currently with Antestarr out of a gut instinct that Morthrandur will be able to help him (TLTE will likely think to himself that Morthrandur will help him get back and turn the tide, and Morthrandur might actually be helping him to his true calling)

Antestarr:
Overall goal - Foil the plans of the Writers and protect the NeS, in large part to give meaning to what he considers an otherwise meaningless life he has no agency over

Methods - Create conflict (as Protector), protect Young and her child (in part, though, he does this because he loves her as a father, regardless of anything else), invent weapons and the like as needed

Specific current goal - rescue Chance from Morthrandur

LOL Yes, Cathia Imperator is meant to be Highemp's ancestor. Imperator being Latin for emperor, and the original meaning being just "first citizen". I was envisioning Cathia as the then Armenian queen's right hand, before the Emps were the royal dynasty.

Anyway, I've dug up the posts on Atlantis I've written, and yes, they're all written by me xDDDD

This here is the first post dealing with Atlantis.

This post deals with the founding of the Illuminohqi.

This monster of a post is background on Highemp in general, his friendship with High Imp before it went bad, and his romance with Alole (Iriana's mother). The first part takes place in Atlantis.

HOWEVER, all this epic history has been more or less ERASED, when Michael MacFarlane twice-forgot a lot of things, back in my complete turnaround de-epicizing post that stunned you both xDDD

So there is no such thing as an NeSorcerer role anymore, and although it's not said in that post (hmm, I should dig it up then), Michael also Twice-Forgot the banana creme Oreo knockoffs that made Atlantis the rich and famous center of the even more ancient world. Therefore, Atlantis was only a modest city-state that no one's ever heard of. And the Ancient One never went there, the Illuminohqi never came into existence, and the Champions of Atlantis were never founded!

Well, sort of. Obviously, some of that still happened, but it's not clear exactly how and what. So basically, do what you like!

To expand a bit further, I suppose mostly for Britt's sake (given that I'm answering his questions)... According to one of the posts linked in my previous workshop post above, Desmond was originally an Atlantean noble, and the first ever Hand of the Plot. Although I never went back and wrote it in, I was going to have the Dust change him into the world's first NeSferatu circa 10,000 B.C.

However, as said, history has been altered, due to the source of Atlantis' fame and power (its banana creme Oreo knockoffs) being Twice-Forgotten by Michael, and so in the new history Desmond could have been born in Roman times rather than Atlantean, whence he became a NeSferatu as described in Britt the Legend. Or it's also possible that even in the altered history, Desmond was originally an Atlantean, and found immortality some other way (be it actual immortality or some kind of suspended animation or whatnot), down till Roman times, when he's turned into a NeSferatu as described in Britt the Legend. So do with that what you will.

The Ancient One, also known as AncientWritertheWriter, is my tying together previous threads. Somewhere in the original NeS, a writer (I forget whom, it might have been MZZT) posted that, in the basement of the Massassi offices was found the Ring of Ultimate Writing Power, along with a note from AncientWritertheWriter bequeathing to the current generation of NeS writers.

The Ancient One had only ever been referred to in one instance in NeS, back during the NeSquared story arc when Antestarr (the real guy) was around and writing again, when the heroes fought the released demon Vashuko. Antestarr (the character), as an NeScholar, spun a bit of history, saying that in 1862 the League of Heroes (from NeS1888) had fought a war in which they bound Vashuko, because the demon was looking for the Ancient One.

Naturally I had to weave that into NeS1888, despite the date being so off from the ages of the League (hence time travel had to be invoked), and I also asked Geb what the Ancient One was. He explained to me that Antestarr (the real guy) had an idea for an ancient being (who had been mentioned once before in the original NeS, I think, also by Antestarr the real guy) who was actually sustaining the existence of the NeS with its very thoughts, but that this ancient being had died at the end of Page 50, because at that point the NeS (now squared) had become self-sustaining.

So, if you read the Atlantean posts I linked previously, you will see that I united the two concepts, equating both beings.

I also forget if it was Antestarr's idea, or something I came up with later, but the Ancient One, still living into modern eras (of course, as his thought was sustaining the NeS before it was squared and self-sustaining), was in the dreamstate. I actually intended Deitopos to be the Ancient One's residence in the dreamstate before his passing at the end of Page 50, and envision Thand being by the Ancient One's side as he passed, and thus inheriting Deitopos.

In all honestly I was never sure if the forgotten state of things should continue or wear off. I'm pretty sure everything else twice-forgotten was returned, so these things could return. Personally there was a lot of stuff I didn't like because it made things pretty complicated. For short-term bursts, it would work fine - but for aspects like these to come and go, it confuses people who weren't around the first time. Rather than forgetting this stuff, I would have "resolved" it and moved on.



Fuq.



So, you never did say how Desmond became NeSferatu? That means this plot still works, right? He was immortal before he became The Commander in Rome (we never saw him before this time) and then becomes NeSferatu. In fact, dare I say this, this could be an opportunity for The Negotiator to re-emerge? Desmond could have been Britt's predecessor as The Negotiator's 'immortal'?

I actually think this works out better anyway, to be honest.

I always see the NeS split into three kinds; "normals", "supers" and "ubers". The ubers are gods and the like. Normals are most of our heroes (even though they're all completely abnormal... in their brains! :p). Supers are those somewhere in between, like HFO. Judge could pound most, if not all, of the NeS Heroes single-handedly. But she'd end up dead if she tried to fight with Zeus. I would usually put some field of evening between all three groups myself, so maybe a super wouldn't find it easy to wipe out two or three normals together, and an uber couldn't wipe out two or three supers together - but that's my preference (hence why Ares kind of got beat by Seraphim and Judge a while back). NeSferatu, in my mind, have always been "supers" not ubers. So for me, for them to have been originated with all of the other ubers like DarkSide and Helebon in Atlantis doesn't sit well with my idea of what they are. So yeah, personally I'm for Desmond being immortal then turned NeSferatu.



Merging the two together was a good idea. Having these two vaguely similar things just floating about the narrative seems silly when, as you did, they could be merged into the same being. However I'm still not plussed by the 'character' in any case. To be frank, I don't even like that aspect of Thand (being the first human). I'm just not keen on, what I can only describe as, the "ultimate origin" story. The universe was formed from an egg kind of stuff. I think the real problem is that the Ancient Dude serves no function. It's not necessary, doesn't advance the plot and doesn't represent enough for us to work with. I think, as you mentioned, having Ancient One die off and leave it to Thand would be a great solution and one I would encourage. At least Thand has purpose in our story.

I don't mind the idea of some God-like dude being involved, even without purpose, so long as he was at least funny. Then it makes him an entertaining troupe at least. But he's not, he just seemed boring and 'mysterious'.

Also, from the description of who/what he is... isn't that Erik? The "Avatar of the NeS"?? They sound awfully similar in function.



So what would later become the "NeS Heroes" was original the "League of Heroes"? Was 1888 the first example of the League, or could there have been previous generations? As said, I basically believed it was an on-going, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen style, thing going on.

Now for Geb;



Agreed. Basically I think the first section I am assuming everything to do with the NeS is NeS. Everything to do with "pre-nes" is NeS, every side-story or side-thread is also NeS - because I'm taking "NeS" as the "NeS universe" but, as you've stated, the NeS is strictly this thread and the beginning of it.



I absolutely 100% agree here, backstories like this usually are self-serving, for the 'hardcore' audience and would likely alienate others. Luckily then there's only us three here...


But seriously, it's why I stated earlier "don't feel like you have to read Britt the Legend". Mostly it is exactly as you stated and just adds background to characters and the world. Because this is me, and I'm plot crazy, it was always highly likely to cause stirrings in the NeS proper - the current one being the introduction of The Negotiator. But this really all stems because I like depth in my characters and world I'm writing in. It's one of those things were writers can take it, or leave it. Especially it works for anyone who likes the characters involved - mostly, right now, Desmond, Nyneve and, sort of, Highemp/Iriana (I'm discounting new characters like Britt and Septimus), because it adds more to those characters and gives us a deeper understanding. Even Desmond, in Britt the Legend, is now a sympathetic character that we can feel for. I imagine. Nyneve was always seemingly complex, but now we know before she turned she was a really nice person who has been corrupted by power and time.

In all honestly, this Britt the Legend looks set to go on for longer than I ever imagined. Originally I thought it would take up a few posts and I'd do it in a kind of reporting fashion, but instead I started the usual NeS script instead and it became a story within the story. I may actually have done it as a separate thread if I'd have known that to begin with, but what's done is done I guess. I will work material in both ways as Britt's life gets closer to present day though.

You could do that if you like. I didn't envision it that way though. Of course, I'm trying to keep from touching the UBER EPIC LULZ cosmology stuff, so I'll keep giving it a wide berth. Hmmmm, the HFO thread could be a different story though

Also, note that the Twice-Forgotten stuff explained some of the stuff in NeS1999 never being written, like the fight between TLTE and Losien xDDD



Sounds good.



Well, this was back when I had just read the entire NeS, and taken notes, and trying to reconcile everything ever hinted at into a grand cosmology. So it worked to unify them.



I'm quite enjoying it myself!

Moving on... what exactly happened with future Frank Smith? Did he just time travel away again? Was the EEP in his eyes or something. That WHOOSH you hear is the sound of that going over my head.

Also, GEB! You still need to explain TLTE and that desert tower thing

Mostly this is a post to myself so I can try to collect my thoughts on all of the various plot points going on at the same time.

Just to point out, I personally would have liked to bring a few of the plots into a convergence - however then I thought, well... actually maybe it kind of makes sense to work this way as the ever-ending PLOT is on the way, the plots thicken and become more complicated. I don't know. But if we keep the current pace of plots, making myself a little check-list like this will become increasingly necessary... especially if I get too busy to post for an extended period of time.

Let me know if there're any plots I'm forgetting.

Britt the Legend:
Linked to: Frank & Subaru in The Future, Britt's Resurrection & Antestarr & The Cult of X

Britt is in the year 1512 with his French ancestor Adélaide Simonier (a descendent of the original Roman Simonius family). Adél is a super genius able to invent all manner of crazy things, mostly objects from the future - though she often invents them before she understand what they do. They have suddenly been joined by Chronos from the future.

Chronos decided to get some good old-fashioned vengeance on High Imp, went back in time and intended to suck up the entire timestream of the super villain. Instead she sucked up the entire timestream of India and everyone on it - which included almost every single villain the NeS has ever known. Chronos then fell through time, overwhelmed by the incredibly potent timestreams running through her, and was snapped up by the very next plot-hole used in the narrative - Adél's Plot-hole gun.

Now, when Chronos hiccups a piece of India and its occupants returns into existence.

Al Ciao, Emperor Pi & The Forgotten
Linked to: Nothing directly.

Al Ciao, eager to make up for past mistakes, vowed to get his daughter, Iriana, some Armenian tea and was aided by Emperor Pi and his dragon, Long Xiang. However after some mishaps, Al Ciao lost the tea and found himself alongside some of the Remembered Forces (including Otter and MaybeChild). However he's then confronted by his ex, Mia, and his newest child. In order to pay child support to Mia, Al Ciao decides to raid the treasure room of his Armenian palace (which is lying in ruins in the middle of London). Eventually he, Emperor Pi and the Remembered get to the treasure room to find gold, gems, beehives (for making honey wine) and bananas (for monkey guardians).

NeS Heroes
Linked to: Nyneve, Young & Tony's Millions

Losien and the other NeS Heroes are located within the tower of Big Ben, MZZT's workstation. After Gwenhwyfar confirmed a truce with them (the Heroes instantly believing she joined them) when she saved Losien's life, TLTE reached the tower with Chance in his arms (after saving him from the Cult of X). However upon arrival the question of Losien's heart was instantly raised by Polly (Losien's mother). As if to avoid the question, the narrative stepped in when our resident powergamer, Arbiter burst into the tower and knocked Gwen out of it again - intent on finishing their earlier match-up. Losien wants to save Gwen, but some of the other heroes are doubtful, both doubtful of Gwen and of Arbiter.

Miss Fire, meanwhile, is still inside her status pod but now under the care of MZZT and Mecha Lou.

Tracer has been scattered through dimensions and constantly chances through his alternate dimensional versions of himself. MZZT believes that if it continues without getting their own Tracer back, he may he lost forever as the dimensions' timestreams diverge from the same course.

The question of Losien & TLTE's relationship is left unresolved.

Chance, now safe with the NeS Heroes, is still separated from his mother who was kidnapped by Nyneve.

Nyneve, Young & Tony's Millions
Linked to: The NeS Heroes, Britt & Antestarr & The Cult of X, The Sepulchral Phantom

Tony won the Euro Millions, but Nyneve decided that the money would be put to better use by the NeSferatu. She and Tony are headed to collect his winnings, with Young in tow. Young is still missing her son, who was kidnapped by The Sepulchral Phantom and taken to the Cult of X.

The Sepulchral Phantom
Linked to: Nyneve, Young & Tony's Millions, Britt's Resurrection & Antestarr & The Cult of X

The designs of the Sepulchral Phantom remain largely in mystery but it appears that he intended for Antestarr to be sacrificed by the Cult of X by using Chance as a lure. His reasons are unknown.

Britt's Resurrection & Antestarr & The Cult of XLinked to:Nyneve, Young & Tony's Millions, Britt the Legend

Britt has been re-resurrected (after being temporarily resurrected in Antestarr's body) within the clone body of Aetas X. The last cult leader, Suzy X, was killed by Antestarr and now the other cult members believe that Britt is the new cult leader. Antestarr was the one that originally killed Britt and thus Britt wants the cult to capture Antestarr.

Frank & Subaru in The FutureFrank Smith had been on the run from the Far, Far, FAR Future Cops who had deemed him guilty of several time crimes. He then decided to go to the future and lay the smack down after being pumped full of adrenaline and "Feel Good Inc" by Subaru. Dragging Subaru to the future with him they eventually confront Chronos who reveals to them that they had actually travelled to the Far, Far, Far FAR Future and needed to go back in time to rescue her because she'd been imprisoned by some bad guys that had taken over the TEA.

They travelled to the Far, Far FAR Future to find that the TEA was being controlled by a quad of characters - Galvatron, The Very Last True Evil, Ahnuld & Highemperor. Characters long removed from the narrative. However they tell Frank & Subaru that Chronos herself was guilty of a crime that put her in jail. What that crime is, however, is left unrevealed. However Chronos, from the Far, Far Future then received a visit from the Far, Far, Far FAR Future version of herself telling her not to do what she was planning to do.

The Far, Far Future version of Chronos ignored her future self (but sent Frank back to the past to meet her NeS Hero alter-ego, Apple, and start the path towards Chronos-ification). She went back in time to steal the timestream of High Imp but accidentally consumed the timestream of all of India and all of the super villains therein. This may, in fact, be the crime - or related to the crime - that she is jailed for.

Liberius Vir the Writer/Character
Linked to: Nothing Directly.

Liberius Vir the Writer and Character have switched places. But since then Liberius Vir the Character (Writer) has vanished and Liberius Vir the Writer (Character) has done nothing but bum about the NeS Offices.

Good idea! That's the sort of thing this thread is good for having.

As for your preference for consolidating story stuff, that's mine too, and more to your point, would be the Ever-ending Plot's preference. EeP is all about ending stuff, and tying the madness that's otherwise this story into logical conclusions is its bread and butter. It's more or less what happened in the original thread too, so it'd be consistent. Without 'Plot', the NeS would generally gravitate towards random snippets of character pieces, jokes, flights of fancy and the like, often with little structure and resolution, as improv comedy often tends to be. And as the villain, obstacle, challenge, etc. generally gives purpose to a protagonist's story, so too does the EeP with NeS.

As for things you're forgetting, here's what I can come up with:

Thand and Thrawnbot
(tied to: Britt the Legend (Thand is the one reading it), others unknown)

Having revealed himself to the audience as the President of the US, Thand is working to enact some plan, its purpose and exact details yet to be revealed, on a global level with the aid of Thrawn[numbers]. It seems to involve the use of social media to exact some form of mind control over the populace.

Thand also has available a machine of sorts, located somewhere in the Southern Andes mountains, that can allow a storywielder to amplify their power on a much larger scale. While not explicitly stated, this machine is likely bound to Thand's control, and is likely a last resort/'deadman's switch' means to ensure his ultimate goal (likely the survival and/or ultimate knowledge for humanity/NeS/himself).

The Other Potentials
(tied to: Thand, Amal, Rachel, Otter)

Most of the Potentials had, at least on their own word, looked to resolve a deal with the NeS Heroes to determine which were more fit heroes, of which the NeS Heroes likely to have 'won' via establishing Maeve as Queen and the Remembered Forces cleaning up England. However, at least some are likely to be sore losers and may act accordingly.

Specifically, some of the Potentials may have their own agendas. Already, we know Thand to be a special Potential with his own agenda.

Another is Quo Anima, who tricked Amal into believing he (Amal) killed his own Potential (Quo Anima), which seems to suggest that Amal has been sent down a darker path. What Quo Anima ultimately plans is unknown, though it's suggested that Amal's Potential is influenced by those like TLTE, Thand, and Soriel, and likely would play a part in driving Amal as some key player to come, particularly since Amal has been set up as a potential "main character" with things like the NeSword, the crown from the treasury, and his training from TLTE, Thand, and Soriel.

Emperor Pi, a neutral force among the group, is likely most concerned about his daughter, Rachel, who in turn may also have become a Potential in the past to pursue her love for Geb. Emperor Pi's initial involvement was due to this romance, which seems to have been resolved, and thus his continued presence is likely a simple matter of "getting to know the family" (i.e. NeS cast).

The Nega, The Otter's Potential, is likely too drunk to care about their bet with the NeS cast. However, it should be noted that the Otter, more than the others, wishes his Potential as is to be dead, and Morthandur has a vested interest in the Otter's future with The Nega, likely due to Morthandur's notion that the Otter is most capable of 'making the NeS stronger' somehow (a role he initially felt Evil G should have and later seemed to abandon).

Out of the Potentials, Orochi seems the most likely to be the 'sore loser' and go after the NeS Heroes personally, though the actions regarding Frank Smith and Prophet may have altered that.

Venedite seemed to have went off and done her own thing, taking control as the Hand of NeS, with Bhac at her side.

The Orator and Midas are likely to have conceded in their bet against the NeS Heroes.

Nyktelios, Iriana's Potential, may have been swallowed up by Chronos with the majority of the other villains of the world.

Lady Lightside
Related to: Al, Iriana

She's likely going to pop a baby soon, and the fear that she'll turn back to Darkside then seems heavy. Apart from Al's sadness about his baby becoming a snack, Darkside returning is likely bad, as he's served the likes of the EeP in the original thread and generally gravitates towards any power that will ensure him souls to feed on.

Polly Simon
(linked to: Losien)

Apart from what's already been stated, she's likely still ultimately trying to have Losien take up her mantle as ruler of the Jupiter Empire. I suspect, to make things a more epic tie-in at the end, that the remains of the Jupiter Empire would orbit around the Earth and force some sort of ultimatum themselves.

Rachel and Geb
(tied to: nothing directly)

Rachel has a baby of her own on the way. While I don't see her giving birth by the end of the thread, her pregnant state is likely to keep her more out of the action when she's needed most. If nothing else, her state will heavily inform her relationship with Geb, and his own actions, depending on what happens to Losien and the NeS.

Jim Seven and Heaven/Hell
(tied to: nothing at the moment)

While there seems to be no huge strings to resolve here from current events, I suspect there's some dangling stuff I've forgotten about at this point, and regardless, with Heaven/Hell's prominence throughout a lot of NeSquared, they're likely to play some key part in the end of NeSquared, if only to set a backdrop of THE END (dun dun dun).

The Last True Evil and The Ultimate Villain
(tied to: Losien, Geb, probably the EeP and/or Thand)

Throughout most of NeSquared, Thand in particular has noted that TLTE is 'meant' to be the Ultimate Villain of NeS, and that the only way to 'save' the NeS will be to start another thread like last time. Whether TLTE will, in fact, fulfill this prophecy of sorts, or if it'll be spurned in some way is yet to be seen. TLTE, for his part, has been on a personal quest to see to the success of the ones he proclaims to love - Losien and Amal namely - as a sort of atonement for his own evil. The success of his own quest, at least at this time, seems to have a cautiously optimistic chance of occurring.

Twin Suns and The Remembered Forces
(tied to: Maeve, Sarn & Kern, Bhac)

Once the Forgotten, they seem to have obtained what they've wanted -- to be Remembered. However, secretly under the influence Kern in the body of Twin Suns, they may yet still be preparing for something else -- likely to act as another key player in THE END.

---------------------

On a high level with NeSquared/NeShattered, here's also some other elements likely to be considered for THE END (dun dun dun). I'm sure there's other things I'll remember after a re-reading, but this is just from running through the Table of Contents on the workshop.

Darth Vice and the Beta TLTEs
(tied with: Rachel)
They were introduced at the end of the first page of NeShattered, and had their own storyarc with Story Arcade. The end of that story-arc resulted in Rachel making a deal with Darth Vice, a sort of 'I owe you one so long as it doesn't hurt Geb', in return for releasing ownership of the Story Arcade system, still technically 'in use' with the NeS - generally tied with things like the Trans-Terra-Terrorists, The Globalists, and to a lesser degree, Mr. Stafford. Most of it could be given a passing remark with THE END, through Vice might elect to 'call in his favor' from Rachel at this point. The favor could just as easily be called in for a future thread though, if it doesn't help tie something else in this one.

Helebon, Vashuko, and Darkside 3000
(tied to: TLTE in possession of the Darksaber)

They're all evil influences likely to help tip TLTE over to doing something evil, or if not, somehow playing some key part in THE END. Maybe the Darksaber is inserted into the mantle in the center of NeShattered instead of the NeSword.

The Dust
(tied to: Darkside, Morthrandur, Maybe, Stafford, MZZT, Ford, Mustang, Thand?)

Out of the three major things from the one story-arc, the Dust is the only one to not make a return, and probably with good reason -- it was a plot device, not a character, and the device was both too similar in theme to the Forgotten (generally targeting people that got 'dusty' in theory) and not going places at the time. If it were to be rolled in, I personally just see this as one more element to drive other things with the other characters bringing about THE END. Perhaps it could be tied with the Negotiator?

The loss of Potentials
(tied to: Geb, TLTE, Al -- also Frank at this time)

Those three in particular losing their Potentials is likely to play its part in allowing THE END to occur, and the loss and/or presence of other Potentials may speed up that process.

Tsolo
(tied to: Thand, Darkside?, Kern?)

Thand had a vested interest in Tsolo in particular being gone, who was a force to 'weed out' extra characters permanently to a degree that their history wouldn't even exist. Not having Tsolo in existence anymore could possibly be a benefit to the NeS, but also one for the EeP in allowing more threads to pull at. A passing note on how this might have played its part may be useful.

The Taxman
(tied to: Thand, Geb)

He was part of a mostly isolated story-arc, and as far as I'm concerned, could stay that way. However, if wished, The Taxman has been trying to hunt down Thand, who likely created him long ago, and may have finally succeeded in 'catching up' to Thand, playing some part in THE END. More than likely, though, this will just be something that informs Geb's actions in THE END, as with his romance with Rachel.

JM
(related to: Vir, Darkside, random Forgotten and others)

He's played as a main villain in 2 storyarcs -- I can see JM returning in THE END to just cause more chaos due to boredom.

Shame on me for forgetting most of those.

The Dust is one I like actually but it does seem slightly moot. But it could tie with my proposal.

I really think that the NeS3 (or whatever) ought to be a complete 'refresh' of sorts. Rather than a mere continuation, I really would like to push into new and fresh territory. I'm not saying an entirely new cast of characters (though preferably I'd like to see whole new characters involved) but I would prefer that everything 'be put to bed' and we move on into new stories, plots, characters, etc. Now I could see how the Dust in this case would serve to put everything else into 'retirement' as the Dust settles after Page 50. As an example I do think that characters with babies ought to be retiring from our roster, and therefore Retirement happens as the Dust settles upon that character and all of their related plots.

Although I adore Losien and enjoy Geb being around, I would actually suggest our future Main Character be Amal. Especially Geb and Rachel should probably go into Retirement, though even Losien might be better doing so too. Not sure about that one though, I do like Losien a lot as of late. But anyway, they'd be an example of characters moving out of the narrative. It's not to say they could never return, be mentioned or make cameos - but in a Retired role, they'd be making room for new material. Especially I'd like to work on new villains and antagonists in general.

Just a thought anyway. But it could help with the Dust idea.

Actually, that's generally my preference as well with the new thread as far as the general idea of starting 'fresh' with stuff, and that was partly the idea of starting NeSquared (though primarily, the reason was that threads at the time couldn't handle more than approx. 50 pages). I'd argue that, were the whole of NeS to be rewritten, I'd want Losien to have an earlier transition in the thread and make Geb a solid 'Story B' arc throughout where he's dealing with his own transition. In any case, I'd agree that the end of NeSquared should also be the "end" of characters like Geb as 'main' characters at the very least. Normally, I'd point out that attempts to 'trim' the NeS down haven't been very successful with characters often brought back, but I suspect that'd be less of a problem now with you and I and Al as the only active writers these days, and I'd prefer to set a precedent of 'new thread/new slate' to keep NeS's history from bogging itself down. Don't misunderstand -- I don't want to invalidate its history. It'd be nice to have characters like Geb available as cameos. It'd also be nice to be able to reach out to new writers with a new thread and say the equivalent of "hey, a bunch of stuff happened with the first 8 Doctors, but with this 9th, you really can jump in as a new person."

With that said, with how the NeS has actually progressed, it might make more sense to leave Losien as the 'main character' into the next thread, possibly either to transition to someone like Amal or a new character, or attempt to go back to a more equal-group dynamic, or go for more 'random scenes without much of a storyarc' sort of thing. Then again, I'd prefer Losien and/or Amal to still have some character quirk or the like if they're to 'carry' the NeS as Geb seems to have by default. He had his goofy cowardice, which was fun enough to latch onto, while I still feel Los and Amal have it a little harder for that hook, whether it be The Chosen One or The Joe Shmoe among greats, mysterious past or destiny to come, a complicated relationship or just having really cool mutant claws... you get the idea.

I suppose it really depends on how the end of NeSquared pans out and what kind of interest we can get for the new thread. I'm probably going to leverage things like the wiki progress and a MeetUp event or something... still things I've been putting off.

If Rachel and Geb are 'written out' at the end of NeSquared, I'd definitely suggest that Vice call in his favor as part of THE END then, while Rachel and Geb are still characters in the spotlight, so to speak.

Given the setup with Thand and TLTE, I do think it might be difficult to 'tie that up' and leave it behind with this thread, though I'd really like to if I can without forcing it.

Depending on just how many of the 'old cast' are set aside, Al might have to go with them, though I feel real-life Al should have the final call on that.

Any character tied with any other inactive writer I think we should 'retire' if at all possible: Tracer, Antestarr, Vir, and so on. I wouldn't suggest killing any off explicitly, but as with the original thread, seemingly fatal wounds, heading off to do something new of their own, or the like would be advised. While they don't all even need any sort of clear 'closure' for THE END, some of the more prominent ones throughout NeSquared I feel should be given something significant if possible.

As for how I think you're suggesting The Dust be used, it might work. Depends on how it's written, I suppose, lol. If it helps, go for it!

I feel, as part of Ante's closure with his goal in Young (and now Chance?), it might be good for Evil G, Young, and Chance to 'go on a vacation' either at THE END or before the new thread for them to return sometime way far down the road (another 15 years maybe? :P). It'll be a bummer, because I have a soft spot for Evil G, and I think he in particular would be best left as a major character of NeSquared and not drag him out past his welcome.

Anyway, enough rambling on that for now. The important thing to take away is that we'll want to be mindful of what can be 'retired' to keep things fresh while keeping what's necessary to remain 'NeS' -- I'll be reviewing things like my thesis and lenses alongside my re-reading to figure out myself what I think that might be, alongside trying to squeeze out those opinions in whomever might respond in things like the Facebook group.

Oh my.

I personally do not like the idea of retiring things, I love having all this rich background material to draw upon. I can see retiring some characters, sure, but not a wipe of the whole cast. I want Al to stick around due to my personal bias, and Losien makes a solid main character; I'm especially interested to see how she changes, copes, and adapts after the apocalyptic events with TLTE in THE END. I'm actually not very invested in Amal, to be honest; he could be resolved and retired in THE END and I would be just fine with that.

As a side note, I don't recall Al losing the tea leaves...

Al, note that I used words like "retire" in quotes. If other writers decided to do things with any character, new or old, I'd do what I can to collaborate on it, and even with a slew of new writers, I imagine there would be SOME reuse of existing characters and the like, and regardless, its history would not be wiped clean or ignored or the like. I simply would like to set a precedent of encouraging more new stuff for a new thread and set aside a lot of what's currently the active cast and characters. I like to think most of my Doctor Who example, where the series was essentially "rebooted" with the 9th Doctor. They didn't wipe out or ignore the history of the series, and it also did a very good job of starting new, where the Doctor (at least for a while) got to have wholly new adventures with a very new companion. Of course, it wasn't long before they started 'reintroducing' old characters and storylines, which is how I expect the NeS would play out with the new thread. The important thing is that it gives an opportunity to set an example of 'spring cleaning' with what's currently going on with the NeS.

I actually would prefer Al to stick around too as I feel he's becoming more of the sort of character I had hoped out of Al -- much more grounded in the mundane with things like his relationship with his daughter, while still having very unique and comic elements (his cyborg side, wanting to spread his genes). I just think it might be difficult to keep Al around if most of the other major cast has gone elsewhere, as his overall goal is to help his friends, and he doesn't seem the type to have the same attachment to random new people. Maybe that's just me.

As for Amal, I agree, though he's certainly made strides, and I could see him being some combination of Captain America, Aragorn, and....something else. The something else could stand to be less vanilla, though, or something more comic? Hook-interest-y? I don't know.

As for Al losing the tea leaves, I think the confusion is that Al did lose the leaves but then he seemed to have Oppo gather up the remains?. So whoops on that. Britt already pointed out to me that the Armenian castle lost its legs, so whoops on that too. >.>

Stupid Plot. <.<

Lol nothing wrong with plot holes, I just wanted Al to be successful in his quest to obtain tea for his daughter, is all. I'm sure we can find a motivation for Al to stick around, and I'm glad you're enjoying him as a character now

I guess I'll have to be controversial and say I'd actually prefer to see Al himself Retire. Obviously, it's not something I'd ever force and it's not because I dislike the character - I certainly love him to bits. Buuuuuut, as I say, I'd prefer a newer cast of characters with less baggage and exhausted storyline. I actually rather envisioned having Iriana replace Al Ciao on the NeS Heroes team because she's new and there's a lot of explore there. Sure she has daddy issues but really Al Ciao is really doing what TLTE did with Losien and Amal - he's overshadowing her. Right now Iriana's only purpose is to be Al's guilt trip. When she had Couchman, there was a bit extra there, but now... Oh well. My other reason is... well, we don't really know what's going to happen but if LightSide does become DarkSide, and we Writers keep our 'good taste' in check and don't have DarkSide taste the baby, then Al Ciao would be soul guardian of his & LightSide's child. Unlike Mia's baby, which is with Mia, and Iriana, who is of age, this new sprog needs a parent and that would really be Al. I expect this to actually happen perhaps before the end of NeS2, but in any case I would personally like to see him Retire off and raise his new baby. Of course, it's not my choice but there's my reasoning behind my thinking. Instead we'd have Iriana to develop. I actually have an idea to make her a little more... connected to the group. I think she should 'ask to be trained as a hero', possibly by Geb because he got his hero degree.

I do much prefer Losien and I don't much like Amal still, but I do think he can still be turned around. My only reasoning for having him instead of Losien is, as said, he's newer and fresher.

I think Thand and TLTE could be addressed by the end of the thread - at least I think TLTE can be Retired somehow, maybe Thand could carry over into our first story arc or something. Antestarr I think could be, literally, laid to rest. As in, he's a vampire and so goes to sleep underground for a century. Tracer could, maybe, not make it back from this dimensional split thing. Dunno.

And yeah, I thought all the tea leaves got ruined when they dropped them all. Didn't notice Oppo gathered them all up again... leaf-by-leaf... and they'd be dried leaves so... very small. Poor Oppo @_@.

I think Evil G is one of my favourites to have around to be honest. But I do think a new host of original characters from the three of us could fill such holes we might feel from the loss of the oldies. Al could bring in another new guy, I could throw one in and Geb could too and hey presto, we have a bunch of workable newbies to entertain us.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see I guess.