Alright, I'm going down the list and just answering stuff as they were posted, and I may repeat myself and the like, so bear with me please.
First off, just wanted to say that I agree with you, Tracer on your note about epic confrontations, to some degree. Most of those sort of conflicts tend to be cliche and the like, so I try to only go for such things if it seems like they wouldn't do anything else, and even then, I try what I can to make it unique in some way.
Question #1: I know TLTE has been thinking of 'ending' NeSquared on page 50. We've talked about it before. Personally, while I
do think NeSquared should end similarly like the first 50 pages of NeS did, I wasn't setting my heart that it should happen on page 50. A big reason we made a new thread when we did was because the old forums couldn't HANDLE many more pages than that. Basically, my intention was to not give it much thought until page 40 at least, and then decide if aiming for only 50 pages would be good, or go for 100, or 250 or 500 or even so much as 2500 pages (which would be truely squaring the amount of pages, but that's likely too much). It really depends on where the story is at those points. It's certainly not my intention to keep breaking into a new NeS thread every 50 pages (though the premise that squaring the thread only delayed the inevitable is something I really like, etc.) In short, I'm not thinking about it for at least another 20 pages :p
Question #2: CoolMatty is correct that it's become customary to post a 'placeholder' if you're working on a long, detailed post. However, it's a protocol I'm trying to discourage, because I'm starting to feel that such protocols discourage the INTERACTIVE part of NeS, which I feel is a core part of the story thread. Since even before NeSquared, us older writers have become comfortable with doing what we want, taking pieces of the story thread for ourselves and making it difficult for others to work with. I know I'm to blame for this too, but it's something I'm hoping to discourage from now on. I'm not saying we can't still make placeholders -- I just don't want it to become a standard.
Sarn's definately got some good relationships between Geb and between Mayaal and between Voodoosnowflakes and, because of that, interesting relationships with other characters like Thand. I actually think that most everyone would deny believing in what Thand claimed, though unlike some of them, Sarn could certainly TRUELY not believe Thand. I know Thand's claim will certainly shake Geb's relation with TLTE.
Also, Semievil says he was so hoping Thand would be Santa Claus too
Also, not going to quote it, but your stuff with Semievil and Grismath -- yay!
[QUOTE=Cool Matty]Anyway, I'm done posting for a bit, I think I covered everything Geb wanted covered for the time being, so it's stime for some other writers to get in on this.
Oh, and here is the idea behind Wai, for all of you wondering what the hell that is about: (followed with stuff)[/QUOTE]
Actually, you missed some stuff I was hoping to address. It's fine, though, because the unanswered questions shouldn't all be addressed instantly anyway, since some of it may now be "errata" (plotholes) and some of it might yet be answered later and the like.
As for Wai, I just wanted to make it clear that Thand, in NeS, is likely the "first human" figure. Whether he actually Adam, or even REALLY the first first human, should, in my opinion, never be entirely answered, but I do think it'd make for both funny insights (Thand: "I
hate snakes...") and more dramatic ones (like Thand's perception of love and God) if he is assumed to be. However, as it's also been made apparent before, time in NeS is relative -- events pass, but characters have yet to significantly age. They are not likely immortal, however, for a number of reasons (it would defeat the purpose of villians aiming for immortality, as they can not bear children due to their evil -- other characters could never realistically bear children as then the children would never age, or those children would grow up to be the same age as their parents, there would become a point where so many things happen that it wouldn't be POSSIBLE for them to have happened without the characters aging -- look at series like The Simpsons or James Bond 007, etc.) It's also been made apparent that the NeS is not the only story out there even in relation to NeS -- NeSquared has characters like Highemperor, Wai and Voodoosnowflakes who are apparently not residents of NeS. POINT BEING, time is very relative within NeS and in the context of other stories, so Wai's age in comparison to Thand could be both older and younger, in a sense. So... yeah, time's a fickle thing in NeS. I thought I had more of a point with that one <_<
[QUOTE=The Last True Evil]The only reason, Geb, that Thand called them "insects" is because they insulted that which he prizes above all else - his intelligence. I know it seemed like he was waxing villainous at times, but look at what he actually
says:
"I would be branded a villain as bluntly as if you had applied a cattle prod to my forehead, and you could begin twisting the Ultimate Conventions of a story to my eventual doom. After all, do not the heroes always prevail in an epic story such as this?"
His broad strokes at villainy are blatant farce. He knows all too well that the NeSHeroes have essentially murdered the Potentials because of their myopia, and so he has all the moral high ground, which translates to physical power in the NeS. I don't think it detracts from the character to portray him this way: nor do I think that portraying him in a more...saccharine, cunning manner would display the
breadth of his knowledge as effectively. So, I guess, agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we necessarily disagree. I noticed that Thand has managed to avoid the Ultimate convention, as you pointed out. The idea that Thand's behavior was a mockery of his "villainous" stature is something I definately think fits him (and admittedly, did not catch that well when I first read it). My major concern is simply that Thand's awesomeness will be dilluted into something cliched now that it's been made clear that he's a "villain"-type. I should have more faith though that, even if that does happen, all of us can ignore, fix or improvise to keep it from becoming such.
TANGENT
So as to not confuse everyone, here's my position on Thand's role in NeS:
THE REALITY
1) Thand is a villain. He is not as "hardcore evil" of one as the Darkside or the EeP, but that is because he is human (or "more than human"). In this regard, Thand could be said to be more of a "true" villain, because we can sympathize with him more, and because not every action and perception of his is pure evil. It makes him all the more evil, however, when he choses to do evil -- when his acts of "good" were for his own evil purposes and the like.
2) Thand IS right about his assessment about TLTE and the fate of NeS, but only in the sense of the "law" for lack of better words. Thand likely sees humanity as only getting progressively worse (perhaps due to original sin, perhaps just from watching history repeating itself, perhaps because, like many people, as they get older, they see the newer generation as worse then they were... who knows), and ideas such as redemption seem, at best, a temporary change for the person in question and, more likely, a futile point. Thus, since TLTE was a villain, he will always be such. So far, this is right enough -- TLTE, while having turned from being a villain before, still acts and perceives like one, as his major motivation is not the well-being of others, but for Losien, and because he loves her. How true that love is has yet to be tested (though Thand now has raised part of that question), but until such has happened, TLTE will be considered the 'real' villain of NeS, and the story conventions will follow such. Ideas such as loving your enemy, truely changing your ways, forgiveness, and all that stuff are concepts that Thand likely does not believe. The questionable philosophy of how truely right Thand is part of what makes him such an awesome villain and character as a whole.
WITHIN THE STORY
1) Thand is on the same level as Antestarr -- not a "real" hero but not a "real" villain either. The Hands of NeS will likely not regard Thand as a threat to the balance of NeS. His villainous ways are only relative to the interests of the heroes -- as far as the story is concerned, Thand is, at the very least, amoral (neither right or wrong, just is) and at best, morally in the right, keeping Thand from being subjected to the Ultimate Convention and the like.
2) Thand is, at least as far as anyone could prove, telling the truth. He is not a villain, the NeS WILL end because of the heroes, and TLTE is the ultimate villain of NeS.
Hope that made sense.
END TANGENT
[QUOTE=The Last True Evil]Here's what I think should happen now: it's a classic rift, the most natural thing in the world. When all the bad guys are no longer a threat, the good guys must fight amongst themselves.
This quest to stop Gebiyl and Young will happen, doubtlessly, but should be written like an unravelling, of sorts. Gradually, the notes Thand should be scrutinised, witheld, argued over. Seeds of dissent that were always
sub rosa will arise. Bitterness, division, acrimony.
There should still be some happy moments, before we enter the grim rising action that will climax and finish NeSquared. Classic NeS goofing around is still called for, and will happen. It's more mature this time, though: instead of hanging out at Big Ben and eating nachos, I can see the NeSHeroes actually going for a strong drink, to forget their troubles for a while. One plotline I hope to focus on in the middle of all this tension and drama is the romance of TLTE and Losien, which will hopefully finish in a wedding.
And then...I don't know. I see the action going forward as a tandem thing: on one hand, the NeSHeroes are fighting Gebiyl and the EeP, acting as stewards of the free Earth, defending the people. On the other hand, they're trying to investigate Arkng Thand through the NeScholars that remain, and whatever channels they can find. And then...it goes wrong.
I don't know if anyone will support TLTE in the end, really. Looking at the backlog of interaction, he never really made any friends: Gebohq and Losien are the only ones who have had a decent conversation with him. So no one else has any reason to defend him or believe in his good nature. Ironically enough, the only other who might side with him if things go pear-shaped is Cool Matty, with which he has developed a bizarre and antagonistic father-son relationship. Maybe he'll have allies: maybe he won't. In the end, there is a kind of loneliness in being a villain, and maybe that should be embraced.
I think it's a good idea to work up to a page 51 finish. We all know vaguely how this one will end, anyway. NeSquared is still zany, like its predecessor...but it has a darker thematic base, more pain and death. Definitely the
Empire Strikes Back to the NeS's
A New Hope. There will be some goodbyes this time...I just hope we're all brave to cut the chord when it's called for.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that NeSquared is to the first 50 pages of NeS what The Empire Strikes Back is to A New Hope. Things are definately darker now, perhaps as a scar that's never really healed from battling the Ever-ending Plot, perhaps because of Gebohq's imperfection in being able to 'square' the NeS back into place, perhaps just as a natural progression. I also agree that NeS will likely follow a "major" storyarc (such as stopping the evil wedding between Gebiyl and Young) and a "minor" storyarc (which will involve Thand or, at the very least, similar forces). By "major" and "minor" I mean those in the musical context, not in level of importance.
I think that the rift between the heroes has been played with since the beginning of NeSquared. Once we had a growing group of heroes all set to fight evil, eventually parading such heroism around with the HoH in Big Ben, and only even began to realize that a lot of those heroes weren't really serious or had their own agendas on the last few pages before the Endgame battle with the EeP. From there, a lot of them left. Later, Antestarr realizes that the group of heroes should officially disband, but the conflict between themselves has yet to seem to settle. It should be interesting to see if the hero-types will ever be able to really unite.
Lastly, TLTE pointed out something I hope you will all seriously consider -- the death of one's character. I don't like the idea of NeS falling under the same cliches as comic books and the like where characters never stay dead or can't die at all (see
Death Becomes Them to see what I mean). It's bad storytelling as far as I'm concerned -- characters should take serious loses. For example, I'm still not entirely sure
if Gebohq should ever fully recover from the death of his Potential (not that I intend for him to remain emo forever -- that would be horrible >_<), but at the very least, it should be a VERY difficult task for him to regain any of what he had from his Potential. I've seriously planned about when Gebohq should die too -- depending on the length of NeSquared, it COULD be the end of NeSquared. Who knows? And if he should TRUELY die, I would want him to stay dead -- no being ressurected like after Wrath of Khan with Spock or the like. Don't forget to beware of other cliches (see
The Grand List of console RPG cliches i.e. cliches often found in epic fantasy stories, and
The Evil Overlord Checklist i.e. cliches about villains in particular.)
[QUOTE=Cool Matty]Another idea I was playing around with in my head was a sort of division between the heroes. So that instead of it being just "HEROES VS VILLIANS, PART 60", it'd be three groups. Here's the breakdown that I see:
Group A - Hardset Heroes - Will fight for peace for EVERYONE!
Gebohq (Won't "make the same mistake he made with maybechild")
Sarn (As if he'd do something else)
Sok Munkey
Otter
Sarn
Mayaal
Group B - The rebels - Believe there's no such thing as true peace, and fight only to maintain the NeS. (The big rift here would be that they think the heroes are too headstrong and don't realize just how inherently evil the world is, and that hoping for world peace is a ignorant idea)
TLTE
CoolMatty (Tentatively with TLTE, and of course Mimiru/Subaru follow him.)
Mimiru
Subaru
Wai (Totally believes in this group's ideals, doesn't come just because CM does)
Bhac
Antestarr (Has a whole new outlook on life after the Thand betrayal)
Group C - True Villians - These guys just want the NeS gone, or taken over for their own purposes. "He's just dag nasty evil!"
Thand (As far as the writers' point of view, at least)
Helebon (What's he up to now, anyway?)
Gebiyl (Depends)
EeP (Definately)
Mysterious figures (questionable, depends on what's going on with them)
Qwerty (? I'm not sure what's with him right now)
Anyway, some people could be moved around or whatever.
The point is, TLTE and Group B break off after a rift with Geb or whatever. They go to fight for their own ideals (possibly going after Thand?), while the heroes try and stop all the fighting (Thand gives them the run around, telling them to "stop this fight", or "Kill this guy".) In certain places their goal might be the same, but they won't like it, and even if they do team up, there will be a noticible rift.
That's my thoughts, anyone else have ideas?[/QUOTE]
I would say that there aren't three groups, but only a few "true heroes" (like Gebohq) and a few "true villains" (like the Darkside and EeP). A lot of characters, particularly now in NeSquared, are varying shades of grey, some closer to good or evil (note: I'm not really a fan of the good and evil straight line example, but it makes more sense here). Here's where I see the characters as of right now (in the context of the story).
True Heroes:
Gebohq
Sarn
Sok Munkey
Losien
Voodoosnowflakes
Thatchett and Hawthrorne
maybe others (ex. I thought CM, Mimiru and Subaru would be true heroes, but no?)
True Villains:
***The Last True Evil
EeP
The Darkside (the one from the year 3000 is currently trapped in the darkfoil Gebiyl has)
Helebon (also currently trapped in the darkfoil Gebiyl has)
Vashuko (also currently trapped in the darkfoil Gebiyl has)
maybe others
Everyone else:
The Otter (hero-ish, but more self-interested, and was Morthrandur's original target)
Mayaal (is the defender of Good in ways, but will do questionable things, like some paladin figures have)
Wai (apparently dealing with Thand)
Antestarr (also has a unique relationship with Thand, has his own agendas)
Bhac (is the Defender of Evil in ways, but like Mayaal, more interested in the interests of NeS and conflict than letting evil REALLY winning. Note that anytime Qwerty shows up, he's really Bhac. Sort of.)
Gebiyl (he works "for the sake of his story" as far as he believes, and hates the EeP perhaps more than anyone else. He's more psychotic than evil, though he's pretty evil... he may yet become a true villian, but not yet)
Thand (nearly as strange as TLTE -- he's virtually a hero as far as the story and its conventions are concerned, or at the very least, neutral, even though he's exhibited villainous ways too)
Mysterious Figures (I don't know. Who are they?)
***TLTE is, as far as I can tell, currently both a True Villain and a True Hero. As far as the story and its conventions are concerned, TLTE isn't only a true villain, but THE villain of NeS. However, there's definately a side to him that was good before being a villain (being human helps with that), that has been redeemed once, and that could abandon his villainous ways altogether -- his relationship and understanding of love and good is DEFINATELY significant through Losien, but how true the love is and the effect it has on him being a good person has yet to be truely tested. TLTE is, arguably, the true protagonist of NeS.
In any case, the relationship between characters and with NeS's meta-fictional element should unravel over the pages quite awesomely. Sorry for the huge post of ranting. I hope you found it to be worth all your time.
Good work, everyone! 
That was a long-*** post. But what I meant by my question about NeS ending was are you guys trying to actually end it (like, the end, roll credits) in a certain number of posts, not are you going to start a new thread.
