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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-01-29, 3:54 PM #361
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I've skimmed the recent executive orders and haven't found the relevant portion. It could be that it's "hidden" in the USC references. They're certainly written by lawyers though. I've been impressed with most of what I've read so far.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/the-trump-administrations-day-one-moves-were-copied-from-mit?utm_term=.ggaW9PgVz#.eqnB3YPxJ

That's because he's literally copying from Mitt Romney's documents.
2017-01-29, 9:36 PM #362
Originally posted by Reid:
That's because he's literally copying from Mitt Romney's documents.


That's interesting. All of these people literally just pull these things out of drawers and sign them. If I'm not mistaken the Patriot Act was Biden's, don't know who's to blame for ACA.

Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
LOL, multiple federal judges issued orders to temporarily halt the detentions to avoid the immediate human tragedy, without which, among other calamities, thousands of Iranian PhD candidates would have been deported or have their visas suspended. You are quite easily impressed by the apparent performance of Trump's lawyers.

If you don't think this is a massive flap, you are living in a ****ing bubble. My neighbour just donated $10,000 to the ACLU. And this is just in the first week, for Christ's sake.

The tepid response to this moral outrage from congressional Republicans is stunning, but frankly I've given up trying to suppress my suspicion that the Republican party probably selects for lack of empathy (I know you guys are suffering out there in West Virginia, but really, two wrongs don't make a "don't care").

We already have the signatures of six Fields Medalists and 37 Nobel Laureates, as well as over 7000 other American academics denouncing the executive order.

In other news, Trump has demoted the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Director of National Intelligence from the National Security Council, to make way for J̶o̶s̶e̶p̶h̶ ̶G̶o̶e̶b̶b̶e̶l̶s̶ former executive chair of alt-Right propaganda house Breitbart Steve Bannon.

When does the war with Iran start?
I'd be surprised if we go to war with Iran but if we do, it's been a long time coming. Anyway, I've actually been checking whitehouse.gov for executive orders and unsurprisingly they must have a little backlog on getting them uploaded. I'm going to try to find a better source to make sure I'm getting them all as they're signed. Still, the ones I have read seem pretty well worded and constantly reinforce that the actions prescribed must be made IAW current law. I'll look into this new one tomorrow. Of course I have heard all the flack about it, I just prefer to read the actual text before I get all up in arms about things.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-29, 10:09 PM #363
At any rate, the administration is burning its bridges at an astonishing rate, having already unified the media, the CIA, virtually all of academia (plus everybody who has ever been in a PhD program), and now many Jews as well, against him.

I guess that leaves the conservative base, douchebags on /r/The_Donald, old people, and any other of the (unfathomably large, in my mind) 42% of people who approve of him according to Gallop.

Which, of course, I am sure includes "Ms. Butler":
Quote:
There’s nothing short of Trump shooting my daughter in the street and my grandchildren — there is nothing and nobody that’s going to dissuade me from voting for Trump
2017-01-29, 10:52 PM #364
Originally posted by JediKirby:
I had to take a little break from the computer and go visit my neighbors after reading that article about radiation poisoning... Also, speaking of human error on top of everything: Why was the same person who's patient was screaming for help and banging on the door working a month later frying another person's brain?
It wasn't her fault: her valid input was handled incorrectly; and the machine constantly crashed and threw up cryptic error messages under normal operation, so every radiation tech was taught to ignore them. I imagine that participating in these accidents would be a devastating experience.

Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
At any rate, the administration is burning its bridges at an astonishing rate, having already unified the media, the CIA, virtually all of academia (plus everybody who has ever been in a PhD program), and now many Jews as well, against him.

I guess that leaves the conservative base, douchebags on /r/The_Donald, old people, and any other of the (unfathomably large, in my mind) 42% of people who approve of him according to Gallop.

Which, of course, I am sure includes "Ms. Butler":


His bridges are probably about half as burned as they sound on the news.
2017-01-29, 11:22 PM #365
Oh, trust me, I am well aware of how resilient the Trump mob is in the face of what to educated eyes look like catastrophic blunders. The sheer volume of pro-Trump posts on Reddit, 4chan, Roosh V, etc. I've seen this week is enough to drive a man to suicide. And the Republican pushback in Congress has been alarmingly tepid.
2017-01-30, 12:00 AM #366
Well this is rather frightening, if we assume that the man is probably projecting:



:gonk:

And this is coming from somebody who has said publicly and on multiple occasions that it is good to be unpredictable with respect to nuclear weapons.
2017-01-30, 12:53 AM #367
About those executive orders? It turns out they are mostly being written by the self-described Leninist pulling the strings behind the administration.
2017-01-30, 1:38 AM #368
He wouldn't be the first person from that clique to call himself a socialist.
2017-01-30, 2:43 AM #369
For all of his failings, Trump seems to be the first politician who does exactly what he promised during his campaign.

I genuinly never thought he'd do that.
Sorry for the lousy German
2017-01-30, 7:22 AM #370
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
And this is coming from somebody who has said publicly and on multiple occasions that it is good to be unpredictable with respect to nuclear weapons.


There's a lot that's hinting at using nuclear weapons against ISIS. He often speaks of "unpredictability" when he refers to ISIS. For example, a speech from [URL="http://April 2016"]April 2016[/URL]:

Quote:
And then there's ISIS. I have a simple message for them. Their days are numbered. I won't tell them where and I won't tell them how. We must...
(APPLAUSE)
... we must as a nation be more unpredictable. We are totally predictable. We tell everything. We're sending troops. We tell them. We're sending something else. We have a news conference. We have to be unpredictable. And we have to be unpredictable starting now.
But they're going to be gone. ISIS will be gone if I'm elected president. And they'll be gone quickly. They will be gone very, very quickly.


And then from his CIA speech:

Quote:
We’ve been fighting these wars for longer than any wars we’ve ever fought. We have not used the real abilities that we have. We’ve been restrained. We have to get rid of ISIS. Have to get rid of ISIS. We have no choice.


He clearly wants us all to think he will use them against ISIS. It could be bluster. But after the muslim ban, I can say I wouldn't find it surprising (though, of course, to say it would be frightening would be an understatement) if he used them.
former entrepreneur
2017-01-30, 10:06 AM #371
Originally posted by Jon`C:
He wouldn't be the first person from that clique to call himself a socialist.


When Bannon described himself as a "Leninist", it wasn't because he believed in a socialist form of government.

Quote:
“I’m a Leninist. Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”

--Steve Bannon
2017-01-30, 10:09 AM #372
Oh, you meant that clique that described themselves as socialist.
2017-01-30, 10:36 AM #373
Originally posted by Eversor:
He clearly wants us all to think he will use them against ISIS. It could be bluster. But after the muslim ban, I can say I wouldn't find it surprising (though, of course, to say it would be frightening would be an understatement) if he used them.


Use of nuclear weapons is several orders of magnitude larger a deal than a temporary immigration ban on a few countries.
2017-01-30, 10:49 AM #374
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Oh, you meant that clique that described themselves as socialist.


yeah, that one.
2017-01-30, 11:02 AM #375
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Use of nuclear weapons is several orders of magnitude larger a deal than a temporary immigration ban on a few countries.


Let's hope so.
2017-01-30, 11:10 AM #376
Remember when he refused to rule out the possibility of using nuclear weapons in Europe?
nope.
2017-01-30, 12:16 PM #377
If he does, I sure hope he's as close to Putin as people say he is, because those janky soviet automatic retaliation systems are no joke.
2017-01-30, 12:31 PM #378
In the past few days, this administration has led me to root for the the CIA, Jeff Bezos' pro-DoD and anti-Snowden Washington Post, the Koch brothers, Mike Pence, and now I guess Vladimir Putin.

:psyduck:
2017-01-30, 12:35 PM #379
Since it is so hard to keep up with the pace of this administration's machinations, I will just leave here the New York Times' excellent summary of Bannon's ascent.
2017-01-30, 1:03 PM #380
I am beginning to think that the extraordinarily low bar that the Trump administration is setting for itself (don't start WW3!) could be a strategy to terrify the opposition into acquiescence, allowing the Koch brothers to finally succeed in "repealing the Affordable Care Act, rolling back environmental regulations, overhauling the tax code, [and] moving the Supreme Court to the right".
2017-01-30, 1:25 PM #381
Something just crossed my mind that seems a little foreboding: in the article I just linked to, the Koch brothers are quoted addressing their audience of billionaires out here in California, expressing a concern that the current conditions of the United States are conducive to authoritarian takeovers, even apart from Trump. Now consider that the media has now converged on Bannon as the real enemy. But if it is the environment that is conducive to people like Bannon, rather than Bannon's rise being some sort of fluke, then doesn't that just mean that we're going to end up like those communist countries, where you have a string of authoritarian leaders in quick succession, as they take each other out? (Which would certainly put Bannon's affinity for Leninism in context.)
2017-01-30, 1:36 PM #382
Bannon doesn't have affinity for Leninism, he's an accelerationist / revolutionary anarcho-capitalist. He called himself a Leninist because he didn't know there were other movements toward state destruction than the one he learned about in grade 6.
2017-01-30, 3:32 PM #383
Don't know if anyone has had a chance to read the Muslim Ban Order but they got that uploaded sometime mid-day. The order seemed mostly reasonable although some sort of phasing in time would have helped prevent stupid incidents that have fueled the media feeding frenzy but that likely would have occurred regardless. Also, if this order is somehow affecting permanent resident aliens that needs to be fixed. I still think it's moronic to call these orders basically signed tweets. I haven't studied Steve Bannon but what I've heard of him makes him highly suspect in my mind. If he's writing these things he's incredibly smart but I doubt he's actually writing them for no reason other than an educated guess.

I guess my tolerance for this experiment (the Trump administration) is based on the fact that we survived the last experiment (the Obama administration) and a general indifference to American politics at this point. I'll perk back up when the Convention of States convenes.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 3:37 PM #384
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I guess my tolerance for this experiment (the Trump administration) is based on the fact that we survived the last experiment (the Obama administration) and a general indifference to American politics at this point. I'll perk back up when the Convention of States convenes.


Serious question: Which parts of the Obama administration did you think were uniquely unconventional things that no past president would have considered doing?
2017-01-30, 4:04 PM #385
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Serious question: Which parts of the Obama administration did you think were uniquely unconventional things that no past president would have considered doing?


Oh probably nothing but he made remarkable progress on so many things that I feel run counter to American principles and security. Obama himself is pretty exotic compared to the average American with his multicultural and communist upbringing. He's relatively unaccomplished with probably the height of his career being a senior lecturer teaching three classes a year before becoming a senator and that was basically product placement and timing. He's been surrounded and mentored by leftists all of his life so unsurprisingly he surrounded himself with and appointed leftists while in office.

Are there parts of the Trump administration that you think are uniquely unconventional things that no other president would have considered? Serious, not sarcastic.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 4:34 PM #386
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Oh probably nothing but he made remarkable progress on so many things that I feel run counter to American principles and security. Obama himself is pretty exotic compared to the average American with his multicultural and communist upbringing. He's relatively unaccomplished with probably the height of his career being a senior lecturer teaching three classes a year before becoming a senator and that was basically product placement and timing. He's been surrounded and mentored by leftists all of his life so unsurprisingly he surrounded himself with and appointed leftists while in office.
I'm glad at least one person here still gets the joke.

Quote:
Are there parts of the Trump administration that you think are uniquely unconventional things that no other president would have considered? Serious, not sarcastic.
For real for serious? He's pushing back against the commercial media in a way that past presidents would have never considered (for good reason, apparently). That's about it so far. Other than being abnormally obnoxious and exhausting to deal with, that is. ;)
2017-01-30, 4:53 PM #387
Is the joke that Wookie06 is Jon`C's sock-puppet troll account? Or that the universe is a simulation and that this administration is a joke being played on humanity?
2017-01-30, 5:05 PM #388
I think I was fair in my assessment. Sometimes there are things that are true that we don't like to hear.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 5:08 PM #389
Huh? What things?
2017-01-30, 5:14 PM #390
Absolutely.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 5:14 PM #391
???
2017-01-30, 5:47 PM #392
Originally posted by Jon`C:

For real for serious? He's pushing back against the commercial media in a way that past presidents would have never considered (for good reason, apparently). That's about it so far. Other than being abnormally obnoxious and exhausting to deal with, that is. ;)


Somebody has to fulfill the archetype.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2017-01-30, 6:04 PM #393
Originally posted by Impi:
For all of his failings, Trump seems to be the first politician who does exactly what he promised during his campaign.

I genuinly never thought he'd do that.


Meant to get back to this. Elections have consequences and apparently he is actually following through on election promises. Astounding.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 6:12 PM #394
Did you miss civics class in middle school? Trump's "unconventional" approach to government mostly consists of issuing hastily written executive orders, bypassing civil servants and legislators alike, leaving only the judicial branch in his path, to the chagrin of pretty much every governmental body I just mentioned, as well as members of the public who don't buy into your "well, you guys didn't pay attention to ME when my side was suffering, so I guess two wrongs make a don't care" logic.

Edit: grammar
2017-01-30, 7:06 PM #395
You're awfully melodramatic.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 7:32 PM #396
Says the man whose affiliated political movement is deeply rooted in passive aggressive anti-intellectualism.

Edit: Which, incidentally, would appear to me to also perfectly define the word 'troll'.
2017-01-30, 9:19 PM #397
Constitutional originalism is probably as far away from anti-intellectual as anything. Passive aggressive? You seem to be in virtual meltdown. I'm intentionally not arguing with you. I can't defend or argue for Trump because I really don't know what he's going to do or what reasons he has for anything he does do. I can actually read the executive orders and avoid the media circus. For your own mental well being, you should probably do something similar.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-30, 9:41 PM #398
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I can't defend or argue for Trump because I really don't know [...] what reasons he has for anything he does do.


Pray tell, what possibly could be the deep unknown strategic reason for abruptly barring thousands of top Iranian PhD candidates / postdocs / conference attendees, Iraqi translators serving with the US military, patients seeking medical care, and any number of highly educated professionals from re-entering the country or renewing their visas (many of whome have been here for decades)?

Quote:
I can actually read the executive orders and avoid the media circus. For your own mental well being, you should probably do something similar.


You decided to read the text of order and come to your own subjective conclusions, as a substitute for being informed by taking the time to consume news media which describe the actual human tragedy (and a senseless one at that) which has resulted from the orders being given.
2017-01-30, 10:03 PM #399
Thanks to the failure of imagination of the Trump administration, the Iranian PhD student of leading quantum computational complexity theorist Scott Aaronson will most likely NOT be doing a postdoc in the United States. But, you know, it's just hunky dory that a top researcher working at a top US institution like MIT has been shown the door, simply because Trump didn't want to renew his visa, just so that he and Bannon could advance some kind of nebulous, broader agenda.

At any rate, I didn't expect you to appreciate this.

Scott discusses how Trump's poorly conceived order will likely change the course of Saeed's academic future (to the detriment of American science), on his blog.
2017-01-30, 10:21 PM #400
Trump's order allows for exceptions.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

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