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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-11-27, 2:18 PM #5801
James O`Keefe strikes again!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic--and-false--tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

Caught red handed this time.

h.t. /r/politics
2017-11-27, 2:29 PM #5802
Eww, gross.

Originally posted by pulisse:
The guy behind this stunt, James O'Keefe, got his start with funding from Peter Thiel


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15792036
2017-11-27, 2:30 PM #5803
Can we kick these two out of the country already?
2017-11-27, 2:33 PM #5804
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Can we kick these two out of the country already?


I have another idea:

Code: 
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2017-11-27, 2:39 PM #5805
Originally posted by Reid:
To continue: the right's view of the matter is that, somehow, anyone can just start a company and have it compete successfully. This does happen, but like all things that happen, the question is one of proportion and to what effect. American startups are less common, and we are seeing an increase in the numbers of mergers and acquisitions. Besides M&A having the obvious effect of increasing the potential for monopsony in a given labor market, the bigger the size of any one corporation, the bigger their ability to sling weight against any new company trying to acquire capital. Like, if you want to supply aluminum, but the Alcoa 2.0 MegaCorp used their size of the market share to negotiate deals below profitability for you, then, good ****ing luck, because you don't have the negotiating power and the early years of any new business are the tightest on cash flow.

If access to capital was completely open and free, as in, anyone who wanted to start a tree trimming business could acquire the tools necessary at no cost, then sure, telling people to start their own business if they don't like employment for another is a fine retort. But the very principle of capitalism itself is the 100% exact opposite of free and open access to capital, it's about the private control of capital. Hence socialism.

In other words, right-wingers might as well be saying "let them eat cake".


“Market socialism is much closer to a free market than capitalism” is the kind of statement that socialists find utterly uncontroversial and neoliberals/conservatives will never understand no matter how hard you try to explain it to them.
2017-11-27, 2:42 PM #5806
Originally posted by Reid:
I have another idea:

Code: 
      _______
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      |     |
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     _|_( )_|_


At this point this "idea" is becoming no more than an annoying meme, but who knows what the future holds, I guess?
2017-11-27, 2:44 PM #5807
Class wars only end in one of three ways. That is one of them. The other two aren’t any better.
2017-11-27, 2:50 PM #5808
Originally posted by Jon`C:
“Market socialism is much closer to a free market than capitalism” is the kind of statement that socialists find utterly uncontroversial and neoliberals/conservatives will never understand no matter how hard you try to explain it to them.


I don't think people who support capitalism comprehend what capitalism even means. As in the basic definition. When I google "capitalism", the top result is capitalism.org which says:

Quote:
Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights.


Versus the Wikipedia article, which says:

Quote:
Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.


One of these is a definition and the other isn't. Guess which is which? It's hard to have a discussion about ideas when the person literally believes their word means "the principle of individual rights".

Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
At this point this "idea" is becoming no more than an annoying meme, but who knows what the future holds, I guess?


I have an idea for you too, then! :hist101:
2017-11-27, 2:53 PM #5809
I'm not opposed to the idea in the slightest.

I just don't see it happening without a revolution.
2017-11-27, 2:58 PM #5810
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I'm not opposed to the idea in the slightest.

I just don't see it happening without a revolution.


Well, given that Republicans seem hellbent on creating another recession/world war, that might be around the corner. Except this time it will be fun going up against automated counter-protest systems.
2017-11-27, 3:02 PM #5811
In that case I better exercise my second amendment rights in order to prepare for the looters.
2017-11-27, 3:19 PM #5812
Re: why the US keeps revisiting the Civil War and can’t even agree on why it was fought, it’s because the Civil War was really a class war and it never actually ended. Slave Power was disempowered on the basis of it being slavery, rather than the US addressing the question of whether oligarchs should be permitted at all. I don’t know what the next struggle will be about - Tech Power, or Finance Power - but it’ll be the same war, and if it ends the same way as the last one, you’re doomed to fight it again in another 150 years. The only alternatives are universal slavery or the guillotine.

Re: why socialism leads to more efficient outcomes, because free markets work by democratizing prices and production, and democratic socialism extends that process to capital and market access. It’s important to understand that capitalists don’t make their money by doing stuff with capital; they make their money by controlling access to markets, and charging access fees to the people who actually do want to create and sell stuff. Capitalists are each left to guess which tenants to take, using their individual wisdom, rather than outsourcing that wisdom to the market.
2017-11-27, 3:43 PM #5813
Re: why conservatives and neoliberals don’t understand why socialism is closer to a free market than capitalism, no matter how hard you try to explain it to them. It’s because conservatives view central planning by the job creators as a feature, not a bug. Socialists on the other hand understand that rich people are basically idiot lottery winners who shouldn’t be in control of anything. That is the tension between those movements.
2017-11-27, 4:05 PM #5814
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Re: why conservatives and neoliberals don’t understand why socialism is closer to a free market than capitalism, no matter how hard you try to explain it to them. It’s because conservatives view central planning by the job creators as a feature, not a bug. Socialists on the other hand understand that rich people are basically idiot lottery winners who shouldn’t be in control of anything. That is the tension between those movements.


I.E. cucks versus people who are willing to fight for themselves and their lives.
2017-11-27, 4:10 PM #5815
Originally posted by Reid:
I have an idea for you too, then! :hist101:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but: reading this again with the guillotine meme in mind and interpreting the emoticon literally according to the "know your history" caption, you're poking fun more at revolutionaries than at me.
2017-11-27, 4:13 PM #5816
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but: reading this again with the guillotine meme in mind and interpreting the emoticon literally according to the "know your history" caption, you're poking fun more at revolutionaries than at me.


Intentional.
2017-11-27, 4:14 PM #5817
I've said it before; I don't really think the French revolution was a "good" event, as in, going on a massive killing spree is a poor choice. Ideally that wouldn't happen.
2017-11-27, 4:16 PM #5818
Originally posted by Reid:
Intentional.


I actually don't know my history too well, but i do remember the part where they chopped off a few too many heads. :P
2017-11-27, 4:18 PM #5819
We can have a massive spree of memes instead, where we figuratively chop off each other's heads. I mean, if 4chan can meme Trump to the WH, who knows?
2017-11-27, 4:22 PM #5820
I know that public execution by guillotine is not in the Constitution, but originalists say we've already strayed so far from original intent anyway, so maybe we they wouldn't notice the difference.
2017-11-27, 4:25 PM #5821
Originally posted by Krokodile:
This thread has had so much derailment that I see it largely as an all-purpose thread.


The topic of this thread is "anything that can be twisted into a joke at the expense of the right". I think the direction it took was pretty much implicit in the thread title.

I am sure originalists will bemoan the ever expanding scope of the thread, though.
2017-11-27, 4:28 PM #5822
This thread is full of libtards
2017-11-27, 4:46 PM #5823
Originally posted by Reid:
I.E. cucks versus people who are willing to fight for themselves and their lives.
I’m not sure which side is which. I’m sure the right has a strong opinion about it, but I’m pretty sure it’s the capitalists extorting sexual favours in exchange for market access, not the socialists.

Originally posted by Reid:
I've said it before; I don't really think the French revolution was a "good" event, as in, going on a massive killing spree is a poor choice. Ideally that wouldn't happen.


The future will be built on a mountain of corpses. The oligarchs won’t allow any other way; it is either theirs and their employees, or it is the global poor, killed by pollution and desertification and the continued rapacious greed of the capitalist. No, it is not ideal, but it is certain.
2017-11-27, 4:58 PM #5824
Originally posted by Jon`C:
I’m not sure which side is which. I’m sure the right has a strong opinion about it, but I’m pretty sure it’s the capitalists extorting sexual favours in exchange for market access, not the socialists.


The right are the cucks, clearly. They're totally fine letting wealthy people dom them and their lives. Socialists, esp those who work with unions are working for themselves.

So yeah, basically spot on.

Originally posted by Jon`C:
The future will be built on a mountain of corpses. The oligarchs won’t allow any other way; it is either theirs and their employees, or it is the global poor, killed by pollution and desertification and the continued rapacious greed of the capitalist. No, it is not ideal, but it is certain.


This is also probably true.
2017-11-27, 5:56 PM #5825
Originally posted by Jon`C:
I’m not sure which side is which. I’m sure the right has a strong opinion about it, but I’m pretty sure it’s the capitalists extorting sexual favours in exchange for market access, not the socialists.



The future will be built on a mountain of corpses. The oligarchs won’t allow any other way; it is either theirs and their employees, or it is the global poor, killed by pollution and desertification and the continued rapacious greed of the capitalist. No, it is not ideal, but it is certain.


Without agreeing or disagreeing with this point of view, let me just observe that a closeted right wing friend has confided to me the same apocolyptic fatalism about where the world is going, but in his version, the West is overrun by brown people rather than sucked dry by its own oligarchs.
2017-11-27, 6:02 PM #5826
Right wing nativism: "If you can't beat `em, blame their victims."
2017-11-27, 6:42 PM #5827
The right wing version of an apocolyptic class war is of course their fantasy of a race war.
2017-11-27, 6:44 PM #5828
Also, I know at least one alt. right guy who wants it to happen sooner.

But going back to class warfare for a sec, I have to wonder: what exactly are "accelerationists" like Peter Thiel accelerating? Their own demise?
2017-11-27, 7:12 PM #5829
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/935147410472480769

It's not even subtle now.
2017-11-27, 7:19 PM #5830
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Without agreeing or disagreeing with this point of view, let me just observe that a closeted right wing friend has confided to me the same apocolyptic fatalism about where the world is going, but in his version, the West is overrun by brown people rather than sucked dry by its own oligarchs.


That's what the right and, more particularly, fascism does. It takes the internal problems of the current social order and externalizes them onto an "enemy".
2017-11-27, 8:54 PM #5831
Every conservative says they want their country to be run like a business, but none of them ever think about the mass layoffs.
2017-11-27, 8:57 PM #5832
Run like a business = you have a boss you didn’t elect who has the power to remove you

Run like a business = run by the richest person in the office, for his personal benefit

Run like a business = for sale at the right price
2017-11-27, 9:02 PM #5833
Originally posted by Reid:
That's what the right and, more particularly, fascism does. It takes the internal problems of the current social order and externalizes them onto an "enemy".


That’s what business and, more importantly, capitalism does. It takes the internal problems of the current corporations and externalizes them onto a “regulator”.

Just in case I’m not being sufficiently clear about the relationship between capitalism and fascism.
2017-11-27, 10:08 PM #5834
That requires way much outside the box thinking (to use a cliche much loved by corporate management P.R.).

A more obvious source of problem is: brown people.

If it sounds stupid and asinine, it's because it is.
2017-11-27, 10:10 PM #5835
Jon's just mad because he's bad at entrepreneurship. If he were half as determined as I am, he too could have become a regional T-Mobile store manager, like me.
2017-11-27, 10:15 PM #5836
Socialists are just suuuper lazy, just like colored people, and unlike plantation owners.
2017-11-27, 10:43 PM #5837
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Jon's just mad because he's bad at entrepreneurship. If he were half as determined as I am, he too could have become a regional T-Mobile store manager, like me.


I've always wondered why there are so many poor fiscal conservatives, but I think I've finally figured it out. Rich conservatives make sense, because they exploit human capital. Poor conservatives have no meaningful human capital to exploit, so capitalism or market socialism doesn't really make any difference to them. They wouldn't benefit from collecting their own surplus, and they might actually be worse off having to decide for themselves how to spend their time.
2017-11-27, 10:55 PM #5838
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Poor conservatives have no meaningful human capital to exploit, so capitalism or market socialism doesn't really make any difference to them.


I can think of a certain sort of human capital they'd like to exploit, but it's been banned since the 1863. Capitalism or market socialism does make a difference to them, though, because even though they can't exploit this subset of the population, they are happy enough to settle for other capitalists doing it for them.

If stopping black people from getting welfare checks means selling out to billionaires, so be it.
2017-11-27, 11:04 PM #5839
In all seriousness I don't actually think most fiscal conservatives are racist, but I do think that the idea of giving disadvantaged people any sort of "freebie" really seems to throw a wrench in their thinking. It's like the very idea strongly reminds them of every lazy screw-up they've ever had the misfortune of knowing, on a visceral, emotional level. Probably more so for poor fiscal conservatives.
2017-11-28, 2:09 AM #5840
Originally posted by Reid:
That's what the right and, more particularly, fascism does. It takes the internal problems of the current social order and externalizes them onto an "enemy".


That's what everyone does. That's your critique of the Democrats vis-a-vis Russia...
former entrepreneur
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