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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
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Inauguration Day, Inauguration Hooooooraaay!
2017-11-16, 1:35 AM #5561
https://www.recode.net/2017/11/15/16655222/us-senate-tax-reform-silicon-valley-stock-options

Quote:
Silicon Valley is celebrating that its precious stock options are safe from new taxes — for now.

After hundreds of startups, investors and engineers collectively panicked — and petitioned anyone in the U.S. Senate who would listen — lawmakers dropped from a fast-moving tax reform package a proposal to tax options issued by private companies as soon as they vest.

In the eyes of investor Ron Conway, one of the idea’s fiercest opponents, such a change to federal law threatened to damage startups’ ability to compensate their earliest employees, who probably wouldn’t be able to pay the tax because they never received any actual income from their stock options or grants in the first place.

Those fears led Conway and hundreds of others — including Y Combinator’s Sam Altman and companies like Airbnb, Lyft and Uber — to band together in a letter Monday calling on the Senate to follow the lead of House lawmakers and remove the provision entirely. The National Venture Capital Association and other industry lobbying groups similarly pressed the issue on Capitol Hill.

And by late Monday, they had prevailed.

By the time the Senate Finance Committee released a modified version of the so-called Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the stock option tax had been deleted. And in its place, Senate lawmakers included a new provision that would actually provide aid to startup employees who are forced to exercise their stock options. Under the provision, those employees could defer paying any taxes they incur in the event they don’t have a liquid market to sell those options.

“The entrepreneurial ecosystem can breathe a sigh of relief,” said Bobby Franklin, the president and CEO of NVCA, in a statement.


um, no, no, no no no no. The tax reform bill was never going to tax ISOs. They were going to tax NQSOs. ISOs are awarded to employees. NQSOs are awarded to directors and other non-employees because they do not qualify for the special tax treatment of ISOs. This is not about entrepreneurs or startup employees, this is 150040% about rich do-nothings in rich do-nothing jobs stealing investor money and abusing NQSOs for income deferral (tax evasion).

I'm not surprised that the US mainstream media is promoting a completely false version of this story, and I'm also not surprised that the GOP dropped this provision as soon as they realized it was going to tax rich do-nothings instead of workers. I'm disappointed that the tech media is parroting this version of it, though. Due diligence my hairy ass.
2017-11-16, 2:36 AM #5562
Not surprised. To say U.S. policy is informed by whoever can scream their propaganda line the loudest isn't false.

Literally all we can hope for is a major turnout forcing a huge lose for Republicans in 2018.
2017-11-16, 4:00 AM #5563
https://www.google.com/patents/US8246454

geohell
2017-11-16, 4:02 AM #5564
[https://i.redd.it/icyqtb22wayz.jpg]

geohell
2017-11-16, 4:23 AM #5565
And you also have to stand and cheer as if you're watching a soccer game and your team scored a goal, in order to maximize your humiliation before your corporate overlord.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-16, 4:23 AM #5566
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!
former entrepreneur
2017-11-16, 5:47 AM #5567
Something kind of like this was in the second episode of the first season of Black Mirror
2017-11-16, 6:38 PM #5568
Originally posted by Eversor:
And you also have to stand and cheer as if you're watching a soccer game and your team scored a goal, in order to maximize your humiliation before your corporate overlord.


If our world heads in this direction, I'm moving into the forests into a mud cabin. Bye bye technology.

I would rather be cold than ever be forced to participate in corporate advertising by a machine.
2017-11-16, 7:55 PM #5569
Originally posted by Reid:
If our world heads in this direction, I'm moving into the forests into a mud cabin. Bye bye technology.

I would rather be cold than ever be forced to participate in corporate advertising by a machine.


The IRS will audit you for tripping some inscrutable criminal detecting neural network that Equifax sold them. Completing the audit will require a dedicated internet connection and the latest smart device. Every 10 minutes you will be required to stand and shout "H&R Block" or your session will time out.
2017-11-16, 10:32 PM #5570
Originally posted by Jon`C:
The IRS will audit you for tripping some inscrutable criminal detecting neural network that Equifax sold them. Completing the audit will require a dedicated internet connection and the latest smart device. Every 10 minutes you will be required to stand and shout "H&R Block" or your session will time out.


I really ****ing hate the modern world.
2017-11-16, 10:34 PM #5571
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-mass-shooter-killed-wife-buried-her-beneath-floor-n821051

Oh hey, more mass shootings by white guys.

And Trump literally copy-pasted his condolences from Texas and forgot to change the city.

2017 is such a ****ing parody of itself. How is the world this way?
2017-11-16, 10:54 PM #5572
[https://i.redd.it/a1gyqloexw6z.jpg]

geohell
2017-11-16, 10:59 PM #5573
[https://i.redd.it/r8lidb12aykz.jpg]

geohell
2017-11-16, 11:00 PM #5574
Gotta watch out for those white people! Stay safe, folks.
2017-11-16, 11:05 PM #5575
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Gotta watch out for those white people! Stay safe, folks.


Not trying to the typical "liberal" ****, but seriously.

[https://i.imgur.com/4Rdp3zU.png]

Nothing dictatorial about a poll like this.
2017-11-16, 11:38 PM #5576
Originally posted by Reid:
Nothing dictatorial about a poll like this.
Unless filling it out is mandatory and it has an actual bearing on policy, no, it isn't dictatorial. It's discourse damaging manipulative PR nonsense. Hate it for what it is.
2017-11-16, 11:45 PM #5577
It may not be mandatory, but I think Reid might want to respond just in case they decide to put him down for greatest.
2017-11-16, 11:49 PM #5578
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Unless filling it out is mandatory and it has an actual bearing on policy, no, it isn't dictatorial. It's discourse damaging manipulative PR nonsense. Hate it for what it is.


Eh, Trump is going to use the results to argue against the "mainstream media" results about his approval rating. Maybe not straight dictatorial but it fuels his conspiracy theory b.s.
2017-11-16, 11:50 PM #5579
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
It may not be mandatory, but I think Reid might want to respond just in case they decide to put him down for greatest.


Oh yeah, Trump is doing the best job. Really unlike any president ever before.
2017-11-16, 11:52 PM #5580
Originally posted by Reid:
Eh, Trump is going to use the results to argue against the "mainstream media" results about his approval rating. Maybe not straight dictatorial but it fuels his conspiracy theory b.s.
85% guaranteed the results of the poll are going in the circular file.
2017-11-16, 11:55 PM #5581
Originally posted by Jon`C:
85% guaranteed the results of the poll are going in the circular file.


Eh. Probably, I guess. I just can't imagine whoever thought that would be a decent poll wouldn't also accept the results after tweaking them in Trump's favor.
2017-11-16, 11:56 PM #5582
Originally posted by Reid:
Oh yeah, Trump is doing the best job. Really unlike any president ever before.


2017-11-17, 12:13 AM #5583
Originally posted by Reid:
Eh. Probably, I guess. I just can't imagine whoever thought that would be a decent poll wouldn't also accept the results after tweaking them in Trump's favor.


This poll was not designed to usefully bias the outcome. If you wanted to bias the outcome in Trump's favor, what you'd actually want to do is leave off positive intermediate ratings and add more negative ones. Most people are not going to have extreme opinions, but if you force the positive side to choose an extreme option, and allow the negative side nuance, you can misrepresent the balance. This poll would demonstrate the exact opposite, that Trump's supporters are generally weak ones, and there are many many more people vaguely opposed to him.

I would assume the poll suffers from selection bias, anyway, given this appears to be an e-mail, and there's only really one way the Trump campaign can get that from you.

What this poll is really meant to do is make Trump's supporters remember that they are Trump supporters. Is Trump a great president, or a good president? I'll need to think hard about how great and good he is to decide.
2017-11-17, 1:40 AM #5584
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Gotta watch out for those white people! Stay safe, folks.


White people are the worst, amirite??!

If you actually look at the top 10 mass shootings by number of casualties, 5 were committed by whites (Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, Luby's Massacre, San Ysdiro's McDonald's Massacre, Edmond Post Office Shooting), 2 were committed by people of east Asian heritage (Virginia Tech, Binghamton Shootings), 3 were committed by individuals of Middle Eastern heritage (Pulse Nightclub, San Bernardino, Fort Hood).

It's almost as if our political debates aren't actually attuned to the realities of any given situation, and are more about trying to score political points by pointing out the identity of people involved.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-17, 2:00 AM #5585
To be completely fair, it was an English blooded American who wrote the second amendment.

But if we want to have a discussion about the nasty things the English have done since the dawn of time....
2017-11-17, 2:03 AM #5586
On a positive note, they banned slavery before we did. Not that beating us to the punch was a huge accomplishment, though.
2017-11-17, 2:05 AM #5587
Some data that's more representative than what I posted above: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/oct/06/newsweek/are-white-males-responsible-more-mass-shootings-an/

The conclusion:

Quote:
Newsweek's claim ["white men have committed more mass shootings than any other group"] is literally accurate. But it's worth noting the imprecision of this data, and the percentage of mass shootings by white men is lower than their share of the male population, according to Mother Jones.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-17, 2:16 AM #5588
White men have masturbated more than any group in the United States, and it's not even close.
2017-11-17, 3:49 AM #5589
I'm only mentioning they're white due to the racially differential way mass shootings are treated by Republicans and Trump specifically, I don't have a problem with the media on this point.
2017-11-17, 5:22 AM #5590
Originally posted by Reid:
I'm only mentioning they're white due to the racially differential way mass shootings are treated by Republicans and Trump specifically, I don't have a problem with the media on this point.


Heh, relax. My comments weren't addressed to you specifically.

But now that you bring it up, it's funny that what you claim you're doing is actually an instance of the thing that I was taking issue with.
former entrepreneur
2017-11-17, 6:59 AM #5591
Took an implicit association test for school and it claimed I have a slight association with men and science and a moderate association with ableness and goodness. Guess I better check myself.
2017-11-17, 11:07 AM #5592
https://twitter.com/kalebhorton/status/931266979482165248

So, realistically, as far as billionaires go, Elon Musk is doing some pretty good things with his unfairly earned cash.

However, I still ****ing despise this bull**** that we're supposed to admire, care about, or in any way model ourselves after these ****ing people.
2017-11-17, 11:18 AM #5593
Literally everybody in that discussion is wrong.

However, perhaps none as wrong as the guy who said Elon Musk is unimpeachable because he and Musk are both INTJ. You see, INTJs are the rarest and smartest of MBTI categories, which is why they enjoy talking about Jungian pseudoscience so much.
2017-11-17, 11:29 AM #5594
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Literally everybody in that discussion is wrong.


TM 2017, Twitter, Inc.

Originally posted by Jon`C:
However, perhaps none as wrong as the guy who said Elon Musk is unimpeachable because he and Musk are both INTJ. You see, INTJs are the rarest and smartest of MBTI categories, which is why they enjoy talking about Jungian pseudoscience so much.


That's such an INTP thing to say.
2017-11-17, 11:31 AM #5595
That INTJ guy though is probably the most unfunny person I've come across on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/HallAtNYIT/status/930403022655639552
2017-11-17, 11:53 AM #5596
“The proof capitalism doesn’t work is that all billionaires have the minds of 13 year olds” is hysterical nonsense. Stuff like this hurts the anti-capitalist discourse a lot. There is nothing wrong with an immature or unlikeable person becoming rich or admired for the work he has done. Complaining about something this petty only distracts from the real problem - that Elon Musk isn’t actually admired for the work he’s done, he’s admired for the work that others did.

Elon Musk didn’t found Tesla, it was founded and indeed even bootstrapped by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning. Musk wasn’t involved until they were raising their Series A. SolarCity was similar, founded by Peter and Lindon Rive. He did actually have the idea for SpaceX, at least, but he had none of the skills to actually make the company happen. Hyperloop was promoted as Musk’s idea, but there’s not much evidence he was involved in the invention outside of his own assertion, and the Hyperloop company that formed wasn’t even founded by him.

But who takes the credit? Musk. Who takes the surplus? Musk. The people who actually do the work, founded these companies, invented the products, and build the products, are paid only what Musk deigns to pay them, and treated only as well as Musk wishes to treat them.

That’s the failure of capitalism.

Who gives a **** whether some borgie **** likes Rick and Morty. Some perspective, please.
2017-11-17, 11:59 AM #5597
Originally posted by Reid:
That's such an INTP thing to say.


I wouldn’t know, I’ve never gotten the same MBTI result twice.
2017-11-17, 1:53 PM #5598
Originally posted by Jon`C:
“The proof capitalism doesn’t work is that all billionaires have the minds of 13 year olds” is hysterical nonsense. Stuff like this hurts the anti-capitalist discourse a lot. There is nothing wrong with an immature or unlikeable person becoming rich or admired for the work he has done. Complaining about something this petty only distracts from the real problem - that Elon Musk isn’t actually admired for the work he’s done, he’s admired for the work that others did.

Elon Musk didn’t found Tesla, it was founded and indeed even bootstrapped by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning. Musk wasn’t involved until they were raising their Series A. SolarCity was similar, founded by Peter and Lindon Rive. He did actually have the idea for SpaceX, at least, but he had none of the skills to actually make the company happen. Hyperloop was promoted as Musk’s idea, but there’s not much evidence he was involved in the invention outside of his own assertion, and the Hyperloop company that formed wasn’t even founded by him.

But who takes the credit? Musk. Who takes the surplus? Musk. The people who actually do the work, founded these companies, invented the products, and build the products, are paid only what Musk deigns to pay them, and treated only as well as Musk wishes to treat them.

That’s the failure of capitalism.

Who gives a **** whether some borgie **** likes Rick and Morty. Some perspective, please.


I agree with what you're saying, but you might be taking that a little too literally. I read it as a lowbrow ****post, and I don't think that person was trying to claim people's tastes are somehow the cause of capitalism in a serious way.
2017-11-18, 12:03 AM #5599
So, related to the discussion Eversor and I were having. There's quite a bit of psychological research done on political beliefs, and the results confirm we're all biased to our own views. Okay, we all recognize that. But there's more too it than that, believing you're personally less biased ("more objective") makes you more immune to recognizing your objectively recognizable biases:

Quote:
“Our research found that the extent to which one is blind to her own bias has important consequences for the quality of decision-making. People more prone to think they are less biased than others are less accurate at evaluating their abilities relative to the abilities of others, they listen less to others’ advice, and are less likely to learn from training that would help them make less biased judgments.”


and people who believe in their objectivity are more immune to recognizing bias:

Quote:
Participants in one follow-up study who showed the better-than-average bias insisted that their self-assessments were accurate and objective even after reading a description of how they could have been affected by the relevant bias.


Which leads to sort of my initial point about Ebin rational discourse. When you center your mode of discourse too tightly around "facts", what I suspect you get is far more implicit bias, lockdown of beliefs, insistence on "objectivity" while refusing to recognize biased thought and so forth. That doesn't mean facts and reasoning doesn't matter, but objectivity shouldn't be ideologically heralded as a superior mode of reasoning when it's objectively worse for people's ability to evaluate their own political beliefs.
2017-11-18, 12:08 AM #5600
You've entered the no-spin zone. Fair and balanced.
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