I'd add to all that that she's consistently been a sore loser in most all of her public appearances since she lost, and that that's a bad look. Her attempts to rekindle some of the intra-party debates of the Democratic primary by claiming in her book that Bernie supporters weren't "real" or "proud Democrats" at the precise moment when Democrats are trying to unite under Bernie Sanders (taking advantage of the fact that he's the most popular active politician in the country) isn't only hypocritical it's also counter-productive, and harms the party that she claims to care about. To anyone who can see through her, it's strong evidence that she's bought and paid for by special interests, and trying to keep the Democrats aligned with big business.

I have the misfortune that a subset of my IRL interactions are with people who demand just that: if I inturrupt to cut off their ramblings they get all huffy and insulted.

In fact, I was just pointing out the other day to a mutual victim of this person's rants that online discussion was superior to such real life quarrels, because it is impossible to react to having been insulted by forcing a captive audience to digest your non-sense, since it is trivial to ignore people.

...with the notable exception of trolling, which works to achieve the equivalent online outcome of a captive audience... so long as it works.

Of course intelligence and reflection can mitigate the efficacy of trolling, which is why the practice of getting it just right pretty much becomes an art form.

Got to know your audience, I guess.

What do you call a wall you can see through?

Perhaps a fence?

Like when Wookie06 observed that the cleverness of Jon`C's attempts to coax him into divulging his views in a way that benefited his argument was somehow a form of 'trolling'.

Or like that time Antony trolled that guy into confessing sufficient emotional baggage about some black dudes in his past to embarrass himself and be chased off as a racist.

What I'm trying to say is, right now the posting habit goes something like opinion -> contradiction -> debate about the details. Primarily we look to find what we think is "wrong" in each other's posts and emphasize that, and it's a habit defined by negating each other's views. If we spent more time just talking about our views, we could find more common ground and then our conversations will have a common perspective to speak in. For instance, your posts here:



I agree with your opinions here. I remember clearly in the latter half of 2015 feeling the Republicans were finished as a political party. I didn't realize their was sort of an insurgency which led to a pivot, that pivot in my opinion being a step towards something fascistic, but we may disagree on if or how far we have gone that direction.



I really like this take. It's not that I want Hillary to "be quiet" or whatever, the Clinton liberals like painting further left people as "Bernie bros" who hold misogynistic views. What you said I think captures the problem. In fact, I think many of the Clinton camp's complaints of the left are hypocritical. I find quite a few Clinton supporters blame Bernie for dividing the party. There's something to it, but as you said, at this moment Clinton is doing the same thing, giving ammunition for the moderate liberals to fire at the left when right now unifying is more important. And, they also like calling Bernie's supporters closet racists. I think someone high up in Clinton's campaign, not sure who, but they pushed around an image of Obama in Muslim garb, and she threatened to walk with her delegates if Obama didn't give her the Secretary position. What I mean is, many of their criticisms of the divisions "the left" is creating - either they're doing it now or have done it in the past.

But, I think your last sentence is right. I think in 2015 - before the election was in full swing - both parties were facing a strong anti-establishment sentiment, and the Republicans crumbled and Trump took the helm while Democrats resisted. Both really were serving special interests - big business and big business lite.

Are you sure? I call it a steel wall with openings.

A steel wall with windows?

As if this website doesn't have enough common ground!

I thought the format was:

1. Share some disturbing news
2. Everyone agrees
3. Look for points of difference in a desperate attempt to not devolve into a circle jerk
4. Still fail because Jon`C has vanquished all ideological foes and colonized the space they've left behind with some really funny ****
5. Reid concurs

Yeah so maybe we have different expectations from these discussions. I'm not really seeking consensus, because I don't see much value in it. In this thread I've learned more when I've disagreed than when I've agreed with my interlocutors... both from encountering viewpoints different from my own and from trying to argue my own points and realizing that my arguments are weak, and that they rest on assumptions that I wasn't yet aware of.

Lol seems right. Plus there's the two or three pages at a time where Reid and I go at each other until one of us has "exams".

I've learned quite a bit too, you've helped shape my views. To be clear, I like debate at times, but **** it's like every topic.

Eh? Some of us are busy people.

Is your debate pedant ego that high that you think I'm running from debates or something?

Yeah I don't see it that way. There's a critical mass of Republicans who are biting their tongues in public, refusing to criticize a president they vehemently disagree with (except obliquely), while acknowledging how totally ****ing crazy American politics have become in private with reporters off the record. Which isn't to say that no Republicans are on board with Trump, or that some don't agree with him on most issues. But the Republicans are still the divided party they were in 2015. And they're governing like it.

Eh, I wasn't accusing you of lying about having exams to get out of debating when I wrote that.

But I'll accuse you of running from debates now, that you ask. I mean you literally just did it in our last discussion (I pointed it out when you did it).

I think Reid is secure enough that he doesn't need to prove it to you that he's right. But he does feel the need to educate you.

I think ya`ll just need to shut up and sit down when the professor is talking.

Haha, I'm interpreting what you wrote in, like, three different ways and all of them are biting.

I think I've got this ambiguity thing down to an art form

IDK, despite disagreeing they have the most power and seem to be getting along okay.

Heh. Maybe this discussion was a poor thing to start, because I guess it's coming off poorly. Oh well, can't unflush the **** from the toilet.

OTOH, I don't know what I'm talking about.

I mean, literally: I confess that the last several pages were tl;dr

There's nothing of value so you didn't miss anything. At least from my posts.

Mine were cogent. :p

That's no way to talk about Freelancer's mom.



They bring you presents. Every. ****ing. Year.

Gosh

i think you're all great

You guys should keep fighting, don't listen to me

Again, read it aloud for the full effect

I don't know I think I've heard the guy speak too many times to find something like this shocking

Oh yeah? Well I've heard the guy speak even more too many times to find it even more shocking

Uh... is something wrong?

Reid plz don stare into the abyss, we need u

IDK, is something wrong..er?

Shhh it's ok.

Thanks Jones! I have no plan of stopping my low effort ****posts, though.

what is habbening in this thread

Since you just last page accused Eversor of arguing in bad faith, I guess in your mind this just means you're returning the favor?

You know, I’m like a smart person. I'm also honored to have the greatest temperament that anybody has. That makes me smart. I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard. I think I am, actually humble. I think I'm much more humble than you would understand. What do you have to lose by trying something new like Trump? He referred to my hands, if they're small, something else must be small. I guarantee you there's no problem. I guarantee it. They don't even talk about that. That was reported, and nobody talks about it. They don’t write good. They have people over there, like Maggie Haberman and others, they don’t — they don’t write good. They don’t know how to write good. What do I know about it? All I know is what's on the internet.